Villain The Foe Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 I think you've vastly mistaken "overhyping" for "rooting". Me personally, I'm rooting for the QB of the NY Jets. I don't know... call me ******* crazy... but it seems like the right thing to do given that this is the team I love, he's helping us win, and he's part (read that: "PART") of what is making football enjoyable this season. Nobody rooting for Fitz is really trying to sell him as anything different than what he is: a journeyman who is part of a great early-season story for the Jets. This entire debate stems from a couple of twatty crackpots crying that we didn't win by enough. Forget that we won. Not by enough... let that sink in. After watching the last 4 yeas of Jets football, you'd think winning would be enough... but no, 2-3 deep passes per game is far more important than winning I guess. Im not mistaken, but I dont want to really hijack the convo explaining it. All it will do is start up again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Which is ultimately one of the big arguments against Fitz, and it is based in fact. In addition to the weak arm, Fitz also throws a lot of picks but cannot overcome them with lots of touchdowns. I think in this modern NFL, if I were building a team I would not play any QB that was not able to make all the throws and that was not naturally aggressive and capable deep down the field. On a deep pass almost every outcome is positive: 1. Reception- Likely leads to a score 2. Pass Interference - Likely leads to a score 3. Def holding -first down and keeps drive alive All of these also lead to less men in the box, opening up the running game 4. Interception Turnovers are bad, but a deep ball that is intercepted is essentially a punt so even this not that bad. Running is actually far less beneficial if you think about it because you still need to convert third downs and unless you are gashing them and consistently scoring it also tends to keep the score closer, which means 1 or 2 big plays from the opponent and you are behind What evidence is there that Geno can overcome his turnovers with TDs? So far this season, the only game in which Fitz could not overcome his INTs with TDs is the Philly game. One game is an anomaly, not a trend. We fell behind and he had to drop back and pass WAY too much for any QB not named Rodgers or Brady. Otherwise, his TD/INT stats this year look like this: 2/1 W 2/1 W 2/3 L 1/1 W 2/1 W 2/0 L Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Also I wasn't aware Fitz has a weak arm. Total news to me that's never been discussed on this board. Let's have 8 new threads discussing this unique topic. I think we should have 8 new threads about totally different topics, and then make them all about this one. It's better that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyjunc Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 I think Ryan is more talented than Fitz, I think he can/will be better but I think he will have to be a journeyman like Fitz and learn over time like Fitz has. Ryan has the arm to throw deep but not the accuracy, I wish Fitz just had Ryan's arm strength but if he did he'd be playing somewhere else for a lot more money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Im not mistaken, but I dont want to really hijack the convo explaining it. All it will do is start up again. Have I overhyped him? If so, explain how. Seriously. It's subjective, and I genuinely think you have the wrong impression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 I think Ryan is more talented than Fitz, I think he can/will be better but I think he will have to be a journeyman like Fitz and learn over time like Fitz has. Ryan has the arm to throw deep but not the accuracy, I wish Fitz just had Ryan's arm strength but if he did he'd be playing somewhere else for a lot more money. I'll take the accurate QB with an average arm every single day over the inaccurate guy with a cannon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack48 Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 I still think Tannehill is pretty good. He is playing on a team that isn't very good. Even if the new coaching staff is good, they are playing catch up and the offense isn't right. I think they also started to read their own press and were cocky. Also, Bowels who has had an entire offseason to prepare to coach and a full week to prepare for the Pats was out coached, can't imagine how hard it was on the new coaching staff to go against BB and Brady on a short week. Either way, I would be happy if Tannehill was the Jets QB (as long as we didn't overpay for him the way the dolphfins did). He is a middle of the road (12-16 in the league) with a pretty strong arm. He needs to settle down and make the next step, but the pressure is on with his new deal. I see a guy who panics under pressure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villain The Foe Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Have I overhyped him? If so, explain how. Seriously. It's subjective, and I genuinely think you have the wrong impression. I've had the same conversation for the past 6-7 weeks with numerous people. I cant single you out, I cant remember what you said specifically. Generally speaking though Its been done. I'd be lying if I said that you specifically did it. My comment is generally speaking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 I've had the same conversation for the past 6-7 weeks with numerous people. I cant single you out, I cant remember what you said specifically. Generally speaking though Its been done. I'd be lying if I said that you specifically did it. My comment is generally speaking. Fair enough. I guess for me, and the people I've considered reasonable, they are "rooting for Fitz", not trying to pull the wool over everyone's eyes by overhyping him as something he's not. At this point, I don't care... I feel sorry for the select few who don't seem to enjoy winning, or can't seem to recall that this is the cursed Jets... things like a journeyman playing the best football of his career to help us win don't happen to us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerfish Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 lol, No one is, has or was 'over-hyping' Fitzpatrick. His most ardent supporters have all said he is a physically limited short term solution at QB who happens to be playing just as we had hoped. Good enough to win when the rest of the team plays well and not tossing games into the dumpster all by himself. Every single supporter of Ryan Fitzpatrick would gladly see him put as a back up if the team had a really true viable better alternative. The differences of opinion are not regarding the abilities of Ryan Fitzpatrick, the difference of opinion are regarding whether we have a better alternative or not. It appears to me that any discussion revolving around how good or bad Fitz is in reality is regarding how good or bad Geno smith is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetFreak89 Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Tannenbaum spent what 2, 3 years away from the NFL following his firing. SO much time to reflect on his shortcomings and what he would do when given a 2nd chance. His first year back and what does he do? Sign high priced malcontents to enormous contracts and gives a QB who should be playing on "prove it" deals a nice fat contract. I swear, I'd love to have the opportunity to work as a GM in the NFL and see just how far common sense could take me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cant wait Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Tannehill: Signed a $77M contract with $21.5M guaranteed. Goes into Foxboro and gets blown out 36-7, including 2 picks and a safety. Fitzpatrick: Counts $3.25M against the cap, free agent after the season. Goes into Foxboro and is one Marshall TD catch away from possibly knocking off the unbeaten Patriots. Sometimes the grass isn't greener elsewhere. Dollar for dollar, Fitz has been very good for us, and performs well enough to win most of the time. People need to stop whining about our QB situation, but of course they won't. Fitzpatrick needs a team that's stacked at every position to finish 9-7. Miami OL was getting raped all night but sure Fitzpatrick would have done better LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cant wait Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Fair enough. I guess for me, and the people I've considered reasonable, they are "rooting for Fitz", not trying to pull the wool over everyone's eyes by overhyping him as something he's not. At this point, I don't care... I feel sorry for the select few who don't seem to enjoy winning, or can't seem to recall that this is the cursed Jets... things like a journeyman playing the best football of his career to help us win don't happen to us. because we see the reality that fitz is a charlatan and believe the teams success is not sustainable. Winter is coming... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyjunc Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 It's pretty simple. He's a more mobile Chad Pennington. Destroys bad teams but gets destroyed by good ones. Refuses to take chances and doesn't have the arm strength to do so anyways. Say what you will about Fitz's arm strength, but he takes chances downfield anyways, and our big WR's get a nice amount of PI flags as a result. Even if the contracts weren't a factor, I'd still rather roll with Fitz over Tannehill. Fitz has brass balls and Tannehill is a pu$$y. please don't ever compare Fitz to Chad in any way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyjunc Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Tannenbaum spent what 2, 3 years away from the NFL following his firing. SO much time to reflect on his shortcomings and what he would do when given a 2nd chance. His first year back and what does he do? Sign high priced malcontents to enormous contracts and gives a QB who should be playing on "prove it" deals a nice fat contract. I swear, I'd love to have the opportunity to work as a GM in the NFL and see just how far common sense could take me. the deal was team friendly, they can get out after next year. the rest was window dressing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Not weapons, but... WEAPONZZZZZ! I thought it was WEAPINZZZZZ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deucebag Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Dont know if you can judge tannenhill from last night...they lost a starting OT and he had intense pressure from NE's pass rush, plus Kenny Stills dropsies didnt help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villain The Foe Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Fair enough. I guess for me, and the people I've considered reasonable, they are "rooting for Fitz", not trying to pull the wool over everyone's eyes by overhyping him as something he's not. At this point, I don't care... I feel sorry for the select few who don't seem to enjoy winning, or can't seem to recall that this is the cursed Jets... things like a journeyman playing the best football of his career to help us win don't happen to us. It's happened once before (based on passer rating), and he provided me with currently the greatest Jets season in my lifetime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyjunc Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 It's happened once before (based on passer rating), and he provided me with currently the greatest Jets season in my lifetime I wouldn't classify Vinny as a journeyman at that stage. he had only played for 2 franchises(Tb and Cle/Bal) and Vinny throwing w/ his left arm had more talent than Fitz does.(no offense to Fitz). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetman55 Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 No. I don't want to. I don't want to do any of these things you tell me to do. I want to eat candy and look at naked ladies on the internet. Yeah, I'm a Mia Khalifa fan myself... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 because we see the reality that fitz is a charlatan and believe the teams success is not sustainable. Winter is coming... Good. You root for us to stop winning so you can celebrate. In the meantime, keep neg repping me while I'm over here hoping they can keep that lightning trapped in the bottle a bit longer. Go to bed knowing you didn't tell me, or anyone else, anything we didn't know. Only that you decided to spend the first half of the season shuddering in fear, rather than reveling in good fortune. Like a coward, afraid of success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 I wouldn't classify Vinny as a journeyman at that stage. he had only played for 2 franchises(Tb and Cle/Bal) and Vinny throwing w/ his left arm had more talent than Fitz does.(no offense to Fitz). Oh jeez... we going to debate how many franchises a QB must bounced around to in order to be worthy of the moniker "journeyman"? Did you know what he meant when he said "journeyman", did you get that he meant beleaguered veteran that hadn't really found success in previous opportunities? Yeah...? Vinny before becoming a Jet was turnover prone, never lived up to his potential, and didn't do much winning. That's journeyman enough. Arm talent doesn't make one a journeyman, or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyjunc Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Oh jeez... we going to debate how many franchises a QB must bounced around to in order to be worthy of the moniker "journeyman"? Did you know what he meant when he said "journeyman", did you get that he meant beleaguered veteran that hadn't really found success in previous opportunities? Yeah...? Vinny before becoming a Jet was turnover prone, never lived up to his potential, and didn't do much winning. That's journeyman enough. Arm talent doesn't make one a journeyman, or not. Fitz has played on 6 teams, only played on one team more than 2 years. Vinny at that point was going to his 3rd franchise. he spent 6 years w/ TB and 5 w/ Cle/Bal. that's not a journeyman. as far as success, he led Cle to the playoffs and w/ baltimore made the pro bowl where he was 2nd in the league in TD passes. before Fitz played here he was TO prone and he still is TO prone. the 2 are not comparable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike135 Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 This entire debate stems from a couple of twatty crackpots crying that we didn't win by enough. Forget that we won. Not by enough... let that sink in. 1. Points for a creative insult/slur. "Twatty crackpot". May have to steal that. 2. Take it easy fruit loop. No need to insult guys because they don't agree with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villain The Foe Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 because we see the reality that fitz is a charlatan and believe the teams success is not sustainable. Winter is coming... The league's statement to Fitzpatrick: Fitz response: Fitz takes a well-fought but tough loss to Brady and and his brain-dead #12 wearing fans: Fitz locks eyes with Brady knowing that they will meet again in East Rutherford And Jet fans respond with that "SOJ" spirit: Fitz knows that the next time he sees Brady that will mean: Little does Brady know that FItz is getting advice from an unexpected source: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmajet Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 How could these guys have been cocky when they had been mediocre, at best, overall. Last 2 weeks they have been blowing out the competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetFreak89 Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 the deal was team friendly, they can get out after next year. the rest was window dressing. That's good for them then I guess. I didn't really look into the specifics, either way they are still stuck with a so far underperforming Suh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmajet Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 He's playing on a team that isn't very good? Please Jets fans, read the above bold? Remove the name Tannehill, insert the name Sanchez or Geno and ask yourself, have you heard this story before? Tannehill: Landry, Jennings, Stills, Parker, Clay, and Miller Geno: Stephen Hill, Santonio Holmes, Kerley, Jeff Cumberland, Davis Nelson, and Ivory Sanchez: Plaxico, Holmes, Hill, Kerley, Keller, and LT Ummmmm, excuses much? Tannehill sucks, he has stacked talent around him, and he still sucks. Period. Did you not watch the jets vs Miami? Hey, pretty sure the Phins bandwagon has room, feel free to join! Just because you have Landry and Wake doesn't make you a great team? Look at the defense on Houston; Watt, etc. It is how the team plays together (team sport), how balanced they are, etc. This team (except for the previous 2 weeks) was a dysfunctional as they come. Just because they have great players doesn't mean they are good. All a great defense has to do is shut down Landry; score enough points to put Tanehill behind, and ... Yes I watched the Jets/Miami game. We beat them; we beat their offense, we beat their defense. It wasn't close IMO; therefore, not a good TEAM. As far as Tanehill; on this board players are either the best that has ever been or hot garbage. Nothing in between. He is a middle of the road QB. Way better than Geno; he has more more maturity (ok not much). They ran for like 14 yards in the first 3 quarters last night. Is that Tanehill's fault? It is like the Jets loss to the Pats - it is always the QBs fault. You put him on a balanced team or better and he will be a middle of the pack QB; Not sure why you are so emotionally vested in Tennehill; put it this way, can you think of 10 QBs in the league who are worse than him? I can. Middle of the pack doesn't mean great, it means better then almost half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted October 30, 2015 Author Share Posted October 30, 2015 Dont know if you can judge tannenhill from last night...they lost a starting OT and he had intense pressure from NE's pass rush, plus Kenny Stills dropsies didnt help. Fitzpatrick lost his center, had a key drop from Marshall, and faced the same Pats D. Yet you still have people ripping on Fitz and defending Tannehill in this thread after a 36-7 loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike135 Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Little does Brady know that FItz is getting advice from. Wait, isn't Snow dead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted October 30, 2015 Author Share Posted October 30, 2015 Jetster: Started this thread, but even after being shamed, returns the next day to create a thread admitting he was dead wrong. can't wait: Claimed Ryan Tannehill was a real QB, returned to make excuses and neg rep everyone who ended up being 100 % correct. One is doing it right, the other is doing it wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Fitz has played on 6 teams, only played on one team more than 2 years. Vinny at that point was going to his 3rd franchise. he spent 6 years w/ TB and 5 w/ Cle/Bal. that's not a journeyman. as far as success, he led Cle to the playoffs and w/ baltimore made the pro bowl where he was 2nd in the league in TD passes. before Fitz played here he was TO prone and he still is TO prone. the 2 are not comparable. So you really want to debate what constitutes "journeyman". They make meds for this sh*t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmajet Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Fitzpatrick lost his center, had a key drop from Marshall, and faced the same Pats D. Yet you still have people ripping on Fitz and defending Tannehill in this thread after a 36-7 loss. Clearly Fitz and the Jets are playing pretty well on offense. A lot better than we are used to seeing lately. I think Miami isn't very good, they clearly got beat badly last not. I think Tannehill is a middle of the road QB playing on a very dysfunctional team. If we had a long term, middle of the road, QB we would be perennial contenders (maybe it would be easier to move to another division than find a QB). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Excellent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike135 Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Fitzpatrick lost his center, had a key drop from Marshall, and faced the same Pats D. Yet you still have people ripping on Fitz and defending Tannehill in this thread after a 36-7 loss. As a Geno supporter (or at least someone who want to see him play with this better supporting cast), I don't want to be lumped into this group. Don't think I've ever posted about Tanny. Couldn't care less about him. I'm more concerned with Tyrod than I am Tanny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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