Could Jets get younger @ LT & lower the cost?

[Jetster]

What exactly is DBricks cap number for 2016? Would it make sense to make a run at a Cordy Glenn for less? You get younger, you get a much better run blocker for sure. Bills are in cap hell & you would really hurt a division foe by making the switch.

[smaxor5]

He's going to be franchised. Bricks cap number is 14 with 5 dead money and 9 possible savings.

 

 http://overthecap.com/salary-cap/new-york-jets

[Beerfish]

Glen will probably stay in Buff, however the whole D'Brick thing is interesting.  As Smax says if we cut him this year it is 9 savings and 5 dead money.  If we wait until next year it is 13 savings and 1.2 dead money.  If we sign a 'good' caliber LT in fa (and there are not many if any good ones out there) we are going to be paying 8 or more million over a longer term.  I am not sure how the jets can get creative to restructure bricks deal to help them this year.  The Mo wilk and snacks things are really hanging over our head.  The ideal thing in my mind would be to go with D'Brick one more year, draft a potential replacement this year and cut DBrick next year when the savings are very substantial.

[bitonti]

2 hours ago, Jetster said:

Would it make sense to make a run at a Cordy Glenn for less? You get younger, you get a much better run blocker for sure.

fun fact Cordy Glenn is actually a weak run blocker at LT. he's known for his pass protection. You'd think a guy with his size would be a mauler but his career hasn't turned out that way. 

 

even further, the top prospects Tunsil and Stanley are both known the same way. Above average (or great) pass blockers but soft run blockers. The college game doesn't churn out road graders like it used to . They pretty much all (except for a few programs like Bama and Iowa) play in the spread. 

[SenorGato]

7 minutes ago, bitonti said:

fun fact Cordy Glenn is actually a weak run blocker at LT. he's known for his pass protection. You'd think a guy with his size would be a mauler but his career hasn't turned out that way. 

 

even further, the top prospects Tunsil and Stanley are both known the same way. Above average (or great) pass blockers but soft run blockers. The college game doesn't churn out road graders like it used to . They pretty much all (except for a few programs like Bama and Iowa) play in the spread. 

Is it just me, or has the word "fact" been absolutely destroyed in the early going this offseason? Isn't this more like a fun thing to say or opinion or possibility? 

 

[chirorob]

11 minutes ago, bitonti said:

fun fact Cordy Glenn is actually a weak run blocker at LT. he's known for his pass protection. You'd think a guy with his size would be a mauler but his career hasn't turned out that way. 

even further, the top prospects Tunsil and Stanley are both known the same way. Above average (or great) pass blockers but soft run blockers. The college game doesn't churn out road graders like it used to . They pretty much all (except for a few programs like Bama and Iowa) play in the spread. 

The college game + the decrease in the decrease in full contact in the NFL have made it harder to develop linemen.

[Patriot Killa]

How about another Seahawks lineman? Russell Okung? I'm in vote to just cut Brick all together this offseason. He has fell off BAAADD.

[bitonti]

22 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

Is it just me, or has the word "fact" been absolutely destroyed in the early going this offseason? Isn't this more like a fun thing to say or opinion or possibility? 

 

i use it ironically. like fun fact your taxes are due on Apr 15. it's not really a fun fact. 

as long as I amuse myself, that's at least something

[Beerfish]

18 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

How about another Seahawks lineman? Russell Okung? I'm in vote to just cut Brick all together this offseason. He has fell off BAAADD.

Here is the problem, Okung is going to want a lot of money.  He has started 13,14,8,15,12,10 games per year in his career and he had off season surgery this year.  In comparions DBrick has started 16,16,16,16,16,16 games.  DBricks play has fallen off but not totally off the cliff just yet.  We can go ahead and cut him and recoup 9 mill with 5 dead money but we will be paying a LOT for one of the more high profile LTs who are less durable a better and will have to make a real commitment to for them to sign here.

LT will not be a quick fix nor a safe fix.  We gain perhaps some better play and perhaps a cheaper player and we lose unprecedented durability, ability we can live.

The moment we cut D'Brick the #2 issue for the Jets is LT, not mo wilk, not snacks, not RB (I'd put QB at #1).  We have a huge hole to fill and either get a chancy free agent or take a chance on a rookie draft pick.

[SenorGato]

3 minutes ago, bitonti said:

i use it ironically. like fun fact your taxes are due on Apr 15. it's not really a fun fact. 

as long as I amuse myself, that's at least something

It's also not really a fact, probably why it's not fun.

[Jet Nut]

4 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

It's also not really a fact, probably why it's not fun.

Except of course that he's not a great run blocker is a fact.  

Which makes it a fun fact in light of the usual, another teams player is always better than ours thinking. 

[SenorGato]

1 minute ago, Jet Nut said:

Except of course that he's not a great run blocker is a fact.  

Which makes it a fun fact in light of the usual, another teams player is always better than ours thinking. 

Yeah, there's a world between great and weak. If it was a fact it would be pretty easy to show, no? Instead I'm getting two guys' opinions on what they claim are facts.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

Bills were 8th in AYL last year behind their LT. 

[Jet Nut]

4 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

Yeah, there's a world between great and weak. If it was a fact it would be pretty easy to show, no? Instead I'm getting two guys' opinions on what they claim are facts.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

Bills were 8th in AYL last year behind their LT. 

How does any of this change the fact that hes not a great run blocker.  Stats are cute but the guard play enters into the equation, the RB certainly enters into the equation.  

Hes not known as a run blocker.  Thats the fact we're dealing with.  what hes known as.  

[bitonti]

6 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

Yeah, there's a world between great and weak. If it was a fact it would be pretty easy to show, no? Instead I'm getting two guys' opinions on what they claim are facts.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

Bills were 8th in AYL last year behind their LT. 

using that link, the Jets are the 3rd best pass blocking team in the league. Wouldn't speak to much of a Brick decline. Also in that link, Runs behind Breno or the TE on Breno's side (right end) were 2nd best in the league. 

bottom line I don't know how reliable those rankings are 

[SenorGato]

5 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

How does any of this change the fact that hes not a great run blocker.  Stats are cute but the guard play enters into the equation, the RB certainly enters into the equation.  

Hes not known as a run blocker.  Thats the fact we're dealing with.  what hes known as.  

You've moved the goal posts from weak run blocker to not a great run blocker to what he's known as in just two posts. Still have not demonstrated that you know what a fact is.

TF is going on this offseason? I don't think I've ever seen this place so meatball-y before. 

5 minutes ago, bitonti said:

using that link, the Jets are the 3rd best pass blocking team in the league. Wouldn't speak to much of a Brick decline. Also in that link, Runs behind Breno or the TE on Breno's side (right end) were 2nd best in the league. 

bottom line I don't know how reliable those rankings are 

Using that same link, the Jets were 23rd in the league when running behind D'Brick. Using the tabs in that link, you can see that the Jets' OL has never been that high in pass protection - so it's possible most of that grade is covered by Fitzpatrick being as good as he was last year. Lucky they track multiple years, right?!?

All that said, what you said has nothing to do with Glenn - the player we were discussing. Your claim was that he's a weak run blocker and that is a fact, except for the fact that it's not a fact. 

 

[bitonti]

10 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

 so it's possible most of that grade is covered by Fitzpatrick being as good as he was last year. Lucky they track multiple years, right?!?

if Fitzpatrick is such a great player that he always gets the ball out, regardless of protection, then upgrading on Brick doesn't make the passing offense any better. 

 

using that logic they really could put a RT at LT. Because Fitz is so great that the OL doesn't matter.

[SenorGato]

Just now, bitonti said:

if Fitzpatrick is such a great player that he always gets the ball out, regardless of protection, then upgrading on Brick doesn't make the offense any better. 

Except for that 23rd ranked rush behind the LT, good for all of 3.38 AYL. 29th at RT. 

[bitonti]

25 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

Except for that 23rd ranked rush behind the LT, good for all of 3.38 AYL. 29th at RT. 

so you accept the numbers that are bad and explain away the numbers that are good. 

 

here's a number: 10 wins. Does replacing Brick get them to 11? 

[Beerfish]

The Bills Qb rushed for 300 more yards than Fitz on his scrambles and planned runs, is that taken into account for these running behind LT stats?

[SenorGato]

2 minutes ago, bitonti said:

so you accept the numbers that are bad and explain away the numbers that are good. 

here's a number: 10 wins. Does replacing Brick get them to 11? 

Tf are you talking about bit? The same exact OL was 25th in adjusted sack rate in 2014. The unit was 27th in 2013. 30th in 2012.

Boy did you dance away from that bullsh*t Glenn "fact" quickly....

[hawk]

3 hours ago, smaxor5 said:

He's going to be franchised. Bricks cap number is 14 with 5 dead money and 9 possible savings.

 

 http://overthecap.com/salary-cap/new-york-jets

$1.75 Million is reporting and workout bonuses, which aren't guaranteed.  Yet.   

[bitonti]

14 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

Boy did you dance away from that bullsh*t Glenn "fact" quickly....

it's a fact. He's a better pass protector than run blocker. 

 

The analytics website Pro Football Focus, which grades every player in the NFL, ranks Glenn as the fifth-best offensive tackle in the league. He’s allowed one sack, two quarterback hits and just seven quarterback hurries on 304 pass-blocking snaps, according to PFF, giving him a pass blocking efficiency of 97.5, which ranks fourth among tackles.

His run blocking has not graded out as highly, according to the site, ranking 39th out of 74 graded tackles, but Glenn is nonetheless putting together the exact type of season he needs to strike it rich in free agency.

http://bills.buffalonews.com/2015/11/19/laid-back-glenn-quietly-going-about-his-business/

[SenorGato]

8 minutes ago, bitonti said:

it's a fact. He's a better pass protector than run blocker. 

 

2 hours ago, bitonti said:

fun fact Cordy Glenn is actually a weak run blocker at LT. 

Really didn't take long for you to start backtracking from your "fact." 

Here's PFF's short writeup on Glenn from last week:

1. Cordy Glenn

2015 team: Buffalo Bills

The Bills’ offensive line has had its struggles prior to its improved performance this season, but Cordy Glenn has been the one positive constant over his four years. He has improved in pass protection each year, and has been an above-average run blocker over his career. Glenn was our 10th-ranked tackle in 2015 with an 85.0 overall player grade, and fifth in pass protection. At just 27 years old, he’s the best option to solidify a left tackle position long-term.

[bitonti]

30 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

 

Really didn't take long for you to start backtracking from your "fact." 

below average for last year. Is that "weak" it depends on how you want to use that word. It's just semantics. Bottom line people see a big fat tackle and assume he's a run blocker. He's not. He's okay at run blocking but (like every other LT in the league) he makes his money pass protecting. 

[section314]

9 minutes ago, bitonti said:

below average for last year. Is that "weak" it depends on how you want to use that word. It's just semantics. Bottom line people see a big fat tackle and assume he's a run blocker. He's not. He's okay at run blocking but (like every other LT in the league) he makes his money pass protecting. 

What do you think of Jets looking at Jeff Allen in FA? Can play multiple spots,would be upgrade over both Winters or Breno.

[SenorGato]

16 minutes ago, bitonti said:

below average for last year.Is that "weak" it depends on how you want to use that word. It's just semantics. Bottom line people see a big fat tackle and assume he's a run blocker. He's not. He's okay at run blocking but (like every other LT in the league) he makes his money pass protecting. 

Keep dancing, still not really. Nobody assumed anything, you came in calling him a weak run blocker when the fact of the matter is that he is, in fact, not a weak run blocker.

[CanadaSteve]

Why is there such a pissing contest about this?  Glenn has been thought of more as a pass protector than a run blocker his whole career.  It does not say he can't run block, its just that he has been known as a better pass protector.  Why the beef?  Its not like we are signing him anyway.  We have to go with D'Brick one more season.  This is a non-issue.

[bitonti]

26 minutes ago, section314 said:

What do you think of Jets looking at Jeff Allen in FA? Can play multiple spots,would be upgrade over both Winters or Breno.

Allen is a solid player, borderline being good. When healthy, would be more of a guard than a tackle although he can play RT.

I'd like to hear what price he wants, and certainly he'd be welcome on a "show me" type deal. He's 26 though and probably wants that big second contract.  The price would be key but certainly he'd help the team get better. 

The difference with those RG/RT situations and the LT situation is the team has in house alternatives at RG/RT. At least in theory.

Maybe Qvale can replace one of those guys on the right side. Maybe Jarvis Harrison or Dozier steps up. I'm not completely given up on the pipeline for RG/RT.  But there is no pipeline for LT. It's basically Brick and no one. 

[bitonti]

21 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

Keep dancing, still not really. Nobody assumed anything, you came in calling him a weak run blocker when the fact of the matter is that he is, in fact, not a weak run blocker.

he's 39th out of 72 is that strong? 

[SenorGato]

9 minutes ago, bitonti said:

he's 39th out of 72 is that strong? 

I can tell you that it's neither weak nor below average at LT. Otherwise the Bills wouldn't have been 8th according to FO when running behind their LT.

[Sperm Edwards]

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2016/02/15/pro-offseason-to-do-list-for-the-new-york-jets/

OFFSEASON TO-DO LIST FOR THE NEW YORK JETS

John Gatta identifies the biggest offseason needs for the New York Jets, including help at offensive tackle.

Offensive tackle

The Jets’ offensive line (20th in pass-blocking, 28th in run-blocking) struggled immensely in 2015, especially on the outside. Their starting tackles, D’Brickashaw Ferguson (ranked 62nd of 76 OTs) and Breno Giacomini (ranked 69th), had replacement-level seasons. They were, arguably, the least effective duo of OTs in the NFL. In the passing game, Ferguson and Giacomini were dominated by edge rushers nearly every week (ranking 50th and 39th in pass-blocking efficiency among 59 OTs, respectively). Unfortunately, they weren’t much better blocking the run—running outside these tackles yielded only 2.8 yards per carry.

[Sperm Edwards]

Look any that ranking above. There's at least general fan agreement on the lousy Breno, but there is a lot of fan denial about Ferguson, who some insist is still an average to above average pass blocker. It's like all the pressure he gives up doesn't count or is flat-out ignored (he's a bottom 5 OT in the NFL in that category as well, even with Fitz getting rid of it quickly and evading pressure. Despite Fitzpatrick's lesser qualities, he was quite good at this, which is why looking at sack numbers is a reflection on Fitz evading pressure rather than Ferguson protecting him well). 

62nd out of 76 OTs overall. 50th out of 59 OTs in pass blocking efficiency. Just awful. 

And Ferguson's pass blocking is supposed to be the #1 justification for keeping him for another season or two. Meanwhile he blows at that also.

Every year he's been getting worse. What's written about him from the article above - those sh*tty rankings compared to his peers - is the best he will ever be for the rest of his life. With play like this, Ferguson's only objectively elite attribute (never missing a game) is actually a negative.

This has been my point for some time. Around the league, it was far harder finding a downgrade to Ferguson than it was finding an upgrade. So dump him. If there isn't an upgrade worth the high $ or high pick (which I'm happy to have them spend on if the opportunity presents itself), then almost any cheap, below-average NFL tackle won't be much of a downgrade (if he's a downgrade at all), and we can use Ferguson's $10M-ish to shore up other need areas. One can snobbishly wave off and laugh any of those lesser-famous players. The reality is pretty much all of them (or absolutely all of them) are upgrades to Ferguson, and with the net savings the overall team will be stronger.

[faba]

Hopefully This regime seems not to be tied to status quo= if they think they can upgrade they will give it  a try so probably just about everyone  can be a casualty