Carlton and Boomer: " Fitz/Jets have an agreement in place

[Villain The Foe]

12 minutes ago, HighPitch said:

The other stat that cant be overlooked is his 30 tds to 7 ints or whatever it is. Its impressive. He had a great year.

if you were guaranteed the same exact performance for the next 3 years, would you pay him and do it? Id have to say yes. Id take my chances with 2016 fitz for the next 3 years

The only stat im concerned about is wins. But when looking at a specific player what I do take into consideration is "how you lose"

One of the reasons why I've always like Eli Manning is because for the most part his games arent pretty. He'll throw a gang of INT's in a season. But no matter the situation, when you play the Giants Eli puts them in a position to win the game. 

Eli threw 14 INT's last season (double that 7 you mentioned) but check this out. Look at the games. The Giants defense was giving up POINTS last year like it was going out of style, yet Eli kept them in every game except 2 that just got out of control. So, my point here is that its not about just the TD/INT ratio...but how you can rise to the occasion. One of the "games of the year" was the Giants/Saints game. Not sure if you seen that game but it was absolutely epic. Anyone wants to know why Eli should be respected, check that game out. I'd trade every QB on this team right now for Eli Manning.

[Sperm Edwards]

Just now, HighPitch said:

spermy, thats not very positive

I agree. But being positive isn't going to make it happen any more than being realistic.

The GM has the right idea (or seems to be looking that way): draft a QB.

[Colgateman]

12 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Neither is good. But I agree one gets far more excuses  of "team loss" rationalizations for things which the other would get ire and blame.

I'd like to move on from both.

 

Exactly, these guys blame the CS staff for losses last season they had nothing to do with because they don't want to accept their king.bottom ten fitzpatrick costed the Jets several games this year.

I would rather the Jets draft Paxton lynch, let geno or fitztragic start next year and then move on from both

[HighPitch]

U got that wrong it wasnt 15 tex

[Sperm Edwards]

15 minutes ago, HighPitch said:

U got that wrong it wasnt 15 tex

He's right. Fitzpatrick threw 15 interceptions last year.

The "7" you may be thinking of is there were 7 games in which he didn't throw an interception (including the Oakland game, where he left the game before doing so).

[Maxman]

On 4/5/2016 at 5:55 PM, Gastineau Lives said:

This is great news. This is terrible news.

Sent from my VS930 4G using Tapatalk

This made me LOL.

[Powpow]

On April 5, 2016 at 6:21 PM, joewilly12 said:

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooo 

48 years and counting.......

I hope Geno Smith beats him out in camp. 

The only camp Geno will be seeing this summer is Camp Wannabe

[Smashmouth]

11 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Easy and convenient to unjustly credit wins and good performance to a player who wasn't in the game. For all you know he would have thrown 2-3 INTs in any/every playoff game (if he could manage to get his team there). He plays like sh*t against top pass defenses, and loses 5/6 of the time if the offense has to overcome even a 3-TD opponent.

Truly good (and especially great) QBs are NOT only as good as their supporting cast, and THAT is what has been proven over and over and over. What a load of nonsense. With regards to QBs who aren't good, what's been proven is that some teams and situations are good enough to carry bad QBs or make them look better than they are. 

With this rationale, teams are unbelievably stupid to pay top dollar for a good QB, because there are no good QBs; there are only QBs with good supporting casts or bad supporting casts. You can't possibly believe this.

Manage to get HIS team there ? Fitz played well enough to win 12 games I can easily make the same argument that the team let us down way way more than Fitz did. And yes sometimes a QB needs to be in the right situation at the right time and yes sometimes QB's have bad games especially in the playoffs running into a hot defense just ask the great Peyton manning and the great Tom Brady. Imagine if Peyton Manning had gone to the Cleveland browns and they continued their ways of surrounding their QB's with trash talent and sh*tty coaches. Some teams have the same philosophy as you, that the QB makes everyone on the offense better and they simply do not.

In the case of a Tom Brady or a Peyton Manning who were successful at pluging in players on the Pats and Colts.... no one takes into consideration these guys played in a system and excelled in those systems for a very long time. Easy to plug in a guy when you have a Reggie Wayne and Marvin Harrison who do you think teams are focusing on ? they certainly were not worried as much about a young Pierre Garcon . Its easy to say its JUST the QB but its not and that's simply an easy way out of the longer explanation .Coaches did great Jobs working with those QB's playing to their strengths, surrounding them with the correct talent for the job and keeping them focused on the system. Guys like that who play in the same system year after year obviously have a huge advantage, its not just the QB.

Kubiak changed a lot of what the Broncos did on offense he also took the reigns from Peyton and Peyton responded with a horrible season a year after he threw 94 TD's in 2 years.... he didn't just fall off a cliff he lost control of what he does well. Kubiak IMHO got lucky his defense played out of their mind in the playoffs because his offense was non existent and it won him a SB with a MIA Peyton Manning.

The Jets have Fitz a guy very familiar with the offense we run that much was obvious when his leg started responding better at mid season Fitz went off. He did it with only 2 WR's on a team that basically became 1 dimensional . Now we will be adding a healthy Amaro and 2 soild pass catching RB's and I fully expect Fitz to be very effeceint and have even less turn overs and run even more of a ball control offense then he did last year. We have a chance to be a very good offense and to be honest I want a guy whos familiar with that offense to give us one more run of about 2 years to see if we can contend for a SB and I think Fitz is fully capable of that and yes I do believe Fitz and the Jets have an agreement in place and are just waiting for the re structures that are looming.

[joewilly12]

On April 6, 2016 at 11:58 PM, johnnysd said:

No because in Fitz case it is true. He is not a good QB on ANY level except sack avoidance which he is strong at. He is weal armed, wildly inaccurate, careless with his throws, incapable of going through reads, terrible truly terrible past 15 yards, and despite the "harvard" BS really not that great at understanding the game and making reads. So our offense literally consisted of throwing the ball up to Brandon, throwing to a wide open Decker when Marshall was double teamed and quickly dumping off to the RB. It was as simple an offense as could be run in the NFL, and Gailey constructed it beautifully. Coupled with playing the 31st most difficult defenses overall in the league and by far the easiest schedule in the NFL, Fitz went along for the ride and threw 31TDs. But he had 15 interceptions and could have had 30 amd was pretty much horrible in all other aspects. His underthrows on deep passes are actually funny.It is actually mind boggling that anyone can actually watch the JAG play and NOT think that he is immensely average and special or really even good at anything except dumping off quickly against the blitz and making sure he gets those 4 yards on 3rd and 7. Screw Fitz. If he actually comes back he will be god awful and we will waste yet another year.

Yet the QB experts on this forum are along for his Hall of Fame ride here and will ridicule anyone who isn't and make up all the excuses in the world why he's the best fit for the Jets. 

Bravo johnysd bravo 

POTY Award 

[neckdemon]

On 4/5/2016 at 6:21 PM, joewilly12 said:

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooo 

48 years and counting.......

I hope Geno Smith beats him out in camp. 

maybe you can go try to get a try out as a walk-on and then immmediately go punch fitzpatrick in the jaw

[Jetsfan80]

15 hours ago, Colgateman said:

The same people who say Fitz played on bad teams his first 10 years are the same ones who call Geno a bust and dismiss that he played on bad teams, lmao the hypocrisy

Difference is Fitz mostly performed well on bad teams.  Guys like Stevie Johnson and Kendall Wright had career years catching passes from him.  In something like 60+ % of his starts, Fitz-led offenses put up 20+ points.  In short, he was doing his job even if his supporting cast was not. 

Geno, meanwhile, played terribly with bad teams, and there's no evidence to suggest playing with a good team would "fix" him.

[Integrity28]

3 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Difference is Fitz mostly performed well on bad teams.  Guys like Stevie Johnson and Kendall Wright had career years catching passes from him.  In something like 60+ % of his starts, Fitz-led offenses put up 20+ points.  In short, he was doing his job even if his supporting cast was not. 

Geno, meanwhile, played terribly with bad teams, and there's no evidence to suggest playing with a good team would "fix" him.

Fitz isn't the worst we could get, but he's not the best.

He's Chad Pennington all over again. The head and the heart are there, the physical tools not so much. Hopefully he can take us further than many of us expect. There's a lot to be said for his role in the team's overall chemistry, and as we've seen with past championship teams... there's a LOT to be said for that chemistry.

In the meantime, I hope the Jets are aggressive as possible in finding a young, stud QB to get into the lineup as soon as possible. It's time.

 

[Fishooked]

2 hours ago, neckdemon said:

maybe you can go try to get a try out as a walk-on and then immmediately go punch fitzpatrick in the jaw

His magical beard would protect him from such a blow. 

[Jetsfan80]

11 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

Fitz isn't the worst we could get, but he's not the best.

He's Chad Pennington all over again. The head and the heart are there, the physical tools not so much. Hopefully he can take us further than many of us expect. There's a lot to be said for his role in the team's overall chemistry, and as we've seen with past championship teams... there's a LOT to be said for that chemistry.

In the meantime, I hope the Jets are aggressive as possible in finding a young, stud QB to get into the lineup as soon as possible. It's time.

 

^^^This is a reasonable perspective.

The whole "Fitz can't win!" BS is tiresome.

[Colgateman]

16 hours ago, PatsFanTX said:

Or whatever it is?

Fitz tossed 15 INT's last year which was the 3rd most in the NFL.

And he also had about 10 dropped, because the jets went agaisnt bottom ten defenses all year.

 

He's going to be benched by week 6.

[Colgateman]

37 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Difference is Fitz mostly performed well on bad teams.  Guys like Stevie Johnson and Kendall Wright had career years catching passes from him.  In something like 60+ % of his starts, Fitz-led offenses put up 20+ points.  In short, he was doing his job even if his supporting cast was not. 

Geno, meanwhile, played terribly with bad teams, and there's no evidence to suggest playing with a good team would "fix" him.

Yet, Fitz only went 6-10, and I guess to you performing well is leading the leauge in ints twice (while in Buffalo) and even in Buffalo sh*tting the bed against every half decent defense he faced. and lets not act like Stevie Johnson, Cj spiller, Fred Jackson, and Scott Chandler was a bad supporting cast. 

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, Colgateman said:

Yet, Fitz only went 6-10, and I guess to you performing well is leading the leauge in ints twice (while in Buffalo) and even in Buffalo sh*tting the bed against every half decent defense he faced. and lets not act like Stevie Johnson, Cj spiller, Fred Jackson, and Scott Chandler was a bad supporting cast. 

In his only season as a Jet the passing offense was our biggest strength and we went 10-6.  About 86 % of the time, 10-6 gets a team into the postseason. 

And yes, that was a poor supporting cast.  What has CJ Spiller done?  Scott Chandler?  Fred Jackson was a nice player, I'll give you that.  But not a star among that group.  Both Spiller and Johnson had their best years playing under Fitz/Chan Gailey and did nothing after they were gone.

[Sperm Edwards]

5 hours ago, Smashmouth said:

Manage to get HIS team there ? Fitz played well enough to win 12 games I can easily make the same argument that the team let us down way way more than Fitz did. And yes sometimes a QB needs to be in the right situation at the right time and yes sometimes QB's have bad games especially in the playoffs running into a hot defense just ask the great Peyton manning and the great Tom Brady. Imagine if Peyton Manning had gone to the Cleveland browns and they continued their ways of surrounding their QB's with trash talent and sh*tty coaches. Some teams have the same philosophy as you, that the QB makes everyone on the offense better and they simply do not.

In the case of a Tom Brady or a Peyton Manning who were successful at pluging in players on the Pats and Colts.... no one takes into consideration these guys played in a system and excelled in those systems for a very long time. Easy to plug in a guy when you have a Reggie Wayne and Marvin Harrison who do you think teams are focusing on ? they certainly were not worried as much about a young Pierre Garcon . Its easy to say its JUST the QB but its not and that's simply an easy way out of the longer explanation .Coaches did great Jobs working with those QB's playing to their strengths, surrounding them with the correct talent for the job and keeping them focused on the system. Guys like that who play in the same system year after year obviously have a huge advantage, its not just the QB.

Kubiak changed a lot of what the Broncos did on offense he also took the reigns from Peyton and Peyton responded with a horrible season a year after he threw 94 TD's in 2 years.... he didn't just fall off a cliff he lost control of what he does well. Kubiak IMHO got lucky his defense played out of their mind in the playoffs because his offense was non existent and it won him a SB with a MIA Peyton Manning.

The Jets have Fitz a guy very familiar with the offense we run that much was obvious when his leg started responding better at mid season Fitz went off. He did it with only 2 WR's on a team that basically became 1 dimensional . Now we will be adding a healthy Amaro and 2 soild pass catching RB's and I fully expect Fitz to be very effeceint and have even less turn overs and run even more of a ball control offense then he did last year. We have a chance to be a very good offense and to be honest I want a guy whos familiar with that offense to give us one more run of about 2 years to see if we can contend for a SB and I think Fitz is fully capable of that and yes I do believe Fitz and the Jets have an agreement in place and are just waiting for the re structures that are looming.

We will not have the rest of the team - and schedule - required to drag Fitzpatrick to the playoffs this season. Even if we had the impossible luck of opponents' injuries for a 2nd year in a row, he'd fold in the playoffs like he did vs Houston, Buffalo, etc.

The reality is EVERY time a QB is inserted into a Gailey offense they put up above-expected numbers. Fitz is not unique in this, and if we can get that lift it might as well be from someone with a live arm and a high ceiling.

[drsamuel84]

You obviously don't have have to be an expert to know Fitz has limitations and isn't worth $16 - $18mm a year.  However you can't underestimate the good rapport he's built with the offense and based on what's out there he's the perfect hold the fort guy. People here screaming for Macc to go get a QB are acting like they just grow on trees it takes time this is Macc's second offseason.  I like the fact that he's being patient and isn't reaching for a guy who he doesn't like, we could've brought in RG3 or Kapernick but why if they're not the answer?  While getting a young franchise QB is going to make a break Macc's legacy here the worst thing you can do is reach on a guy who's not the answer.  All you do is create holes at other positions by drafting a QB who's not the guy.  With what options are available to us right now it seems the logical choice is to get Fitz back on an affordable deal, maybe draft a QB if the value is there, and give Geno and Petty a chance to compete in camp.  One thing I didn't like was Bowles anointing Fitz the starter, Fitz was good last year but doesn't deserve to ever be handed a job based on his career performance and the fact that we didn't make the playoffs.

[nyjunc]

1 minute ago, Sperm Edwards said:

We will not have the rest of the team - and schedule - required to drag Fitzpatrick to the playoffs this season. Even if we had the impossible luck of opponents' injuries for a 2nd year in a row, he'd fold in the playoffs like he did vs Houston, Buffalo, etc.

The reality is EVERY time a QB is inserted into a Gailey offense they put up above-expected numbers. Fitz is not unique in this, and if we can get that lift it might as well be from someone with a live arm and a high ceiling.

Let's just get back to the playoffs and see what happens.  I am not sure we can make it but that's the goal for this team.

[courtnj18]

I'm watching them now and they're talking about D'Brick staying on the team but taking a cut. Boomer thinks they should trade Mo.... This is nerve-racking I think I'm losing sleep over all this. 

[Sperm Edwards]

Just now, nyjunc said:

Let's just get back to the playoffs and see what happens.  I am not sure we can make it but that's the goal for this team.

Would be great if it happened, but looking at the state of the 2016 Jets it's not happening. Maccagnan seems to realize this himself in letting so much cap space be taken for the past month, by 2-3 players he wants off his balance sheet. There were quick fixes available at LT and he only seems to have made a half-hearted attempt to make a move because he would rather find one in the draft. Those aren't the actions of someone in win-now mode.

If it didn't happen last year it's not happening this year. The team will be worse, and the schedule will be much, much harder.

 

[BowlesMovement]

16 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

The only stat im concerned about is wins. But when looking at a specific player what I do take into consideration is "how you lose"

One of the reasons why I've always like Eli Manning is because for the most part his games arent pretty. He'll throw a gang of INT's in a season. But no matter the situation, when you play the Giants Eli puts them in a position to win the game. 

Eli threw 14 INT's last season (double that 7 you mentioned) but check this out. Look at the games. The Giants defense was giving up POINTS last year like it was going out of style, yet Eli kept them in every game except 2 that just got out of control. So, my point here is that its not about just the TD/INT ratio...but how you can rise to the occasion. One of the "games of the year" was the Giants/Saints game. Not sure if you seen that game but it was absolutely epic. Anyone wants to know why Eli should be respected, check that game out. I'd trade every QB on this team right now for Eli Manning.

Eli Manning is the definition of needing a lot of talent around him to be good. When he was not chucking it up to Plaxico, with an all world running game and defense, or throwing 10 yard slants to Beckham that he takes to the house, he was very Fitz like. Its funny how you criticize Fitzpatrick for needing a team around him, but have no problem using Eli. And talk about an easy schedule, man, the 15 Giants schedule was putrid.

[drdetroit]

11 minutes ago, courtnj18 said:

I'm watching them now and they're talking about D'Brick staying on the team but taking a cut. Boomer thinks they should trade Mo.... This is nerve-racking I think I'm losing sleep over all this. 

Be the dumbest thing ever to trade Mo now for a 2nd round pick.

 

I prefer Fitz over Geno but Fitz is not that much better.

 

[nyjunc]

12 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Would be great if it happened, but looking at the state of the 2016 Jets it's not happening. Maccagnan seems to realize this himself in letting so much cap space be taken for the past month, by 2-3 players he wants off his balance sheet. There were quick fixes available at LT and he only seems to have made a half-hearted attempt to make a move because he would rather find one in the draft. Those aren't the actions of someone in win-now mode.

If it didn't happen last year it's not happening this year. The team will be worse, and the schedule will be much, much harder.

 

the sched will be a lot tougher(most likely), our guys are a year older but you never know.  I think the O will be very good, it comes down to the D.  The D has pieces in place to be very good.  If they are that we'll have a chance to get there and if not we won't have a chance.

[nyjunc]

10 minutes ago, BowlesMovement said:

Eli Manning is the definition of needing a lot of talent around him to be good. When he was not chucking it up to Plaxico, with an all world running game and defense, or throwing 10 yard slants to Beckham that he takes to the house, he was very Fitz like. Its funny how you criticize Fitzpatrick for needing a team around him, but have no problem using Eli. And talk about an easy schedule, man, the 15 Giants schedule was putrid.

Eli is not and has never been a great QB(I laugh at the HOF talk) BUT no matter how bad he may play at times he has an ability to put that behind him and rally his team.  He is a solid QB, one you can obviously win with if you have the right pieces around him.  Fitz had all the pieces last year.

[BowlesMovement]

Just now, nyjunc said:

Eli is not and has never been a great QB(I laugh at the HOF talk) BUT no matter how bad he may play at times he has an ability to put that behind him and rally his team.  He is a solid QB, one you can obviously win with if you have the right pieces around him.  Fitz had all the pieces last year.

Eli is solid if you have the pieces around him, look at his seasons between Plaxico and a healthy Cruz then Beckham. And even with Beckham, who is the best WR in football right now, he missed the playoffs the last two years, which has been THE biggest criticism of Fitzpatrick.

[nyjunc]

Just now, BowlesMovement said:

Eli is solid if you have the pieces around him, look at his seasons between Plaxico and a healthy Cruz then Beckham. And even with Beckham, who is the best WR in football right now, he missed the playoffs the last two years, which has been THE biggest criticism of Fitzpatrick.

Eli has always been TO prone but he has always had a knack for making big plays too.

To be fair, he had Beckham for half the year 2 years ago and last year their D was brutal.  last year Fitz had a good D and much more overall talent around him.

I think Eli gets a little overrated based on the 2 SB MVPs he won(but didn't deserve) but Fitz is nowhere near Eli.  

[BowlesMovement]

Just now, nyjunc said:

Eli has always been TO prone but he has always had a knack for making big plays too.

To be fair, he had Beckham for half the year 2 years ago and last year their D was brutal.  last year Fitz had a good D and much more overall talent around him.

I think Eli gets a little overrated based on the 2 SB MVPs he won(but didn't deserve) but Fitz is nowhere near Eli.  

Eli's teammates have had the knack for making big plays as much as him.  

[nyjunc]

Just now, BowlesMovement said:

Eli's teammates have had the knack for making big plays as much as him.  

he's always been a part of it though.  he is putting his team in position to make those plays.

[BowlesMovement]

Just now, nyjunc said:

he's always been a part of it though.  he is putting his team in position to make those plays.

Ahhh, I see, so when Eli's receivers make ridiculous plays, he is a part of it, but when Fitz's receivers make ridiculous plays, he is along for the ride...... Got it. Absolute worst fan base on the planet, bar none.

[drdetroit]

5 minutes ago, BowlesMovement said:

Eli is solid if you have the pieces around him, look at his seasons between Plaxico and a healthy Cruz then Beckham. And even with Beckham, who is the best WR in football right now, he missed the playoffs the last two years, which has been THE biggest criticism of Fitzpatrick.

Giants had a terrible defense and OL plus OBJ is their only good receiver

[BowlesMovement]

Just now, drdetroit said:

Giants had a terrible defense and OL plus OBJ is their only good receiver

Playoffs or bust.

Sincerely,

Jets fans

[drdetroit]

Just now, BowlesMovement said:

Playoffs or bust.

Sincerely,

Jets fans

KT makes that catch in the buffalo game we not only make the playoffs we probably make a legit run

[BowlesMovement]

Just now, drdetroit said:

KT makes that catch in the buffalo game we not only make the playoffs we probably make a legit run

agree