Bart Scott Tells The Truth About Fitz

[peekskill68]

2 hours ago, EM31 said:

I would argue that he is not a 3rd stringer for 20 other teams.

He would either never make the roster of any other team or... if he cures quite a few of his issues he might be good enough to be a #1 or #2

It is this x-factor that many of his most dogged supporters cling to in my opinion.

I do not think he will able to do that (cure his issues) but there is still an "unknown commodity" component to his evaluation which is not true for Ryan Fitzpatrick.

I guess I'm one of these x-factor guys. I'd still like to see Geno in a offense tailored to his strengths with some talent surrounding him vs. confirming he's hot garbage based on a West Coast offense he didn't have the skill to master throwing to guys like Hill and David Nelson.  Seeing him for less than a full game against a team (Raiders) that Fitz wasn't going to beat either isn't enough of a sample for me...

[AFJF]

24 minutes ago, JiF said:

“If the other guys is playing well and the boat is going right and we’re winning games and the team is 4-, 5-, 6-, or 7-0, yeah, you’re not going to come back to start,” Bowles said. “You can lose your job because of injury. You can lose your job because of a lot of things, but that’s something we’ll talk about once we get to that point.

They might not have been undefeated but the boat was going right and they were winning games.

It wasnt the entire preseason but it was a few weeks.  Fitz knew the offense already.  Geno was still learning it.  Him getting injured elongated the learning curve.

And I think your last point is the biggest.  They were fine with Geno last year and they seem perfectly fine with him this year too.

They were undefeated when Geno was dressed and active.  They were 2-0 and the offense was pretty meh.  Even still, that was good enough to keep Geno on the bench.

I wonder if Belichick sticks with Garrapolo if Brady is suspended for two games and Pats are 2-0 with Brady on the bench.

Does he go with the undefeated QB, or does the best player get on the field as soon as possible?

[AFJF]

37 minutes ago, Maxman said:

Being cleared to play and being ready to play are two different things. Geno missed the entire preseason, so you don't go back to him if things are close to equal.

You also don't give Fitz 10 - 15 million dollars if things are anything close to equal. Which they are.

I have no idea why the Jets are still even talking to Fitz if things are so close.  If so, move on, save the money and go with Geno.  

Yet the Jets keep drafting QBs and telling us Fitz is the top priority.

If the Geno supporters are right, and the gap between him and Fitz is so small, then Mac may not be the genius I hoped/thought he was.

[win4ever]

I think the whole Fitz is still an option talk is more PR talk in the case that Fitz signs elsewhere and does well, instead of saying we've moved on from the guy.  I think it's risk management because they don't have a proven option at QB.  If Fitz signs elsewhere, and Geno and the others flop, the GM can still say, "Fitz was our No. 1 option as we said throughout the process, but he didn't sign with us" so people blame Fitz more so than the Jets.  

While they have paid lip service to signing Fitz, all of their actions have pointed the other way.  They bought in RGIII for a visit, they bought in Hoyer for visits.  They apparently looked into moving for the top pick (presumably Goff).  They drafted a Qb in the second round.  They don't have any cap space saved for Fitzpatrick.  All of their actions seem to indicate that they don't really want anything to do with Fitz at this point.  I'm guessing, they'd welcome back Fitz at backup level money, but I don't think he's coming back for starter money now at all.  I think that ship sailed with Hackenberg pick.  

Fitz got screwed by the Osweiller, Bradford, Daniel signing I think.  It gave him a false sense of value, because he did better than all three of them, and he thought he could hold out because QB was so valuable.  But all the teams that needed QBs went away from him, and he really had no other options.  His perfect option besides the Jets were the Broncos and the Texans.  Both were veteran heavy teams, with playoff aspirations, that needed a veteran QB.  However, Osweiller took out the Texans, and Elway thought Fitz wasn't worth the money.  Fitz's agent drew a line in the sand, and no one has come close to matching the demands, so now it's a matter of pride.  I don't think the Jets sign him, as I believe Fitz waits for someone to get hurt at QB.  Then sign with the team for about $6 million, a bunch of BS about how he's going to prove his doubters wrong and how he thinks said team is not going to regret signing him.  

[Il Mostro]

1 hour ago, Savage69 said:

Farve was the best at skipping camp..

Prime fishing season.

[Maxman]

1 hour ago, AFJF said:

Yes, he missed the pre-season, so he didn't make the 15-20 passes a starting QB makes in the 2 1/2 exhibition games that are generally used for a veteran to shake off the cobwebs.  An actual starting NFL QB doesn't lose his job because he missed the pre-season.

Also, IIRC, he was in uniform and active for week three.  Why have him suited up and active if he wasn't ready to play?

 

 

You don't think that it is important to build continuity with a new QB in a new offense in preseason games and taking regular snaps through out training camp?

There was no reason to switch, Fitz was playing average football at the start of the season. The Jets were hoping for average QB play. Geno could have come in and played below average or above average. He is an unknown because he is young and has never played in a real offense before last season.

[Maxman]

1 hour ago, AFJF said:

They were undefeated when Geno was dressed and active.  They were 2-0 and the offense was pretty meh.  Even still, that was good enough to keep Geno on the bench.

I wonder if Belichick sticks with Garrapolo if Brady is suspended for two games and Pats are 2-0 with Brady on the bench.

Does he go with the undefeated QB, or does the best player get on the field as soon as possible?

Is that some Fitz Juice on your chin or are you just happy to see me lol.

[Maxman]

1 hour ago, AFJF said:

I have no idea why the Jets are still even talking to Fitz if things are so close.  If so, move on, save the money and go with Geno.  

Yet the Jets keep drafting QBs and telling us Fitz is the top priority.

If the Geno supporters are right, and the gap between him and Fitz is so small, then Mac may not be the genius I hoped/thought he was.

What I want out of this regime is to not tell the truth publicly often. I am being serious. If they want Fitz or don't want him, their actions is what will prove it. Not what they tell the media. What we know is that they are treating Fitz like an average QB and they won't pay a lot for him. I totally support that.

One year 6 million that is my final offer to Fitz. Or two years 10.5 million.

If he can make more money somewhere else, I am comfortable with him walking. He is a weak armed QB that is very limited so I support the Jets approach of constantly drafting QBs until they find the right one.

[JetsFanatic]

3 hours ago, nyjunc said:

Geno will be signed fairly quickly after we release him after we re-sign Fitz.

Probably by Denver, they need a QB.

[Nick Blitz]

Hoyer just got 2 mil per year from the bears, that's Fitz's market and Hoyer even got his team to the playoffs.

Surely Fitz can't continue with this 10+ mil fantasy.

[Shadetree]

2 minutes ago, Maxman said:

What I want out of this regime is to not tell the truth publicly often. I am being serious. If they want Fitz or don't want him, their actions is what will prove it. Not what they tell the media. What we know is that they are treating Fitz like an average QB and they won't pay a lot for him. I totally support that.

One year 6 million that is my final offer to Fitz. Or two years 10.5 million.

If he can make more money somewhere else, I am comfortable with him walking. He is a weak armed QB that is very limited so I support the Jets approach of constantly drafting QBs until they find the right one.

I agree with the money part...2 years @ $10-$11 million total would be ideal. 2 years of educating the young QBs and a playoff contender for 2016 and, maybe, 2017.

Losing him, or not signing him, means we are picking close to the top 5 in next year's draft. And that sucks. Going into the 2016 season with the other 3 would **** up my Sundays. 

At that point, I would be pulling for petty or hack to win the job. 

 

[Sperm Edwards]

3 minutes ago, Shadetree said:

I agree with the money part...2 years @ $10-$11 million total would be ideal. 2 years of educating the young QBs and a playoff contender for 2016 and, maybe, 2017.

Losing him, or not signing him, means we are picking close to the top 5 in next year's draft. And that sucks. Going into the 2016 season with the other 3 would **** up my Sundays. 

At that point, I would be pulling for petty or hack to win the job. 

 

He said 2 years $10.5M, as in $6M this year and $5.5M next year, not 2 years AT $10.5M per season. 

That is way overpriced for Fitzpatrick. 

[JiFtheOracle]

1 hour ago, AFJF said:

Yes, he missed the pre-season, so he didn't make the 15-20 passes a starting QB makes in the 2 1/2 exhibition games that are generally used for a veteran to shake off the cobwebs.  An actual starting NFL QB doesn't lose his job because he missed the pre-season.

Also, IIRC, he was in uniform and active for week three.  Why have him suited up and active if he wasn't ready to play?

 

 

Or a young QB getting used to completely new offense and weapons. 

 

[Shadetree]

1 minute ago, Sperm Edwards said:

He said 2 years $10.5M, as in $6M this year and $5.5M next year, not 2 years AT $10.5M per season. 

That is way overpriced for Fitzpatrick. 

I agree, that's why I said10-11 total for the 2 years.

even though I agree, I wouldn't be distraught over paying him more. 

The other 3=wasted season, IMO.

[JiFtheOracle]

1 hour ago, AFJF said:

I have no idea why the Jets are still even talking to Fitz if things are so close.  If so, move on, save the money and go with Geno.  

Yet the Jets keep drafting QBs and telling us Fitz is the top priority.

If the Geno supporters are right, and the gap between him and Fitz is so small, then Mac may not be the genius I hoped/thought he was.

I dont understand why there have to be "supporters".  That's a strange message board thing.  I want the Jets to win, dont really care who the QB is.

Let me ask you this question.  What does signing Fitz accomplish exactly?  What does he do for the team? 

 

[Sperm Edwards]

8 minutes ago, Shadetree said:

I agree, that's why I said10-11 total for the 2 years.

even though I agree, I wouldn't be distraught over paying him more. 

The other 3=wasted season, IMO.

I see. When I see the @ sign I'm used to it being @ that amount per year. My bad. 

From the beginning my number was no higher than $7M/year with just that 1st year guaranteed. After that it can be a team option for a 2nd year at whatever his heart desires.

[Shadetree]

11 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I see. When I see the @ sign I'm used to it being @ that amount per year. My bad. 

From the beginning my number was no higher than $7M/year with just that 1st year guaranteed. After that it can be a team option for a 2nd year at whatever his heart desires.

I'd be very very happy with $7mill per year for 2 years. 

It's a Rock and a hard place if that number is macs line in the sand, because my feeling is Fitz will walk away from the game at that money. Hope I'm wrong.

[Sperm Edwards]

6 minutes ago, Shadetree said:

I'd be very very happy with $7mill per year for 2 years. 

It's a Rock and a hard place if that number is macs line in the sand, because my feeling is Fitz will walk away from the game at that money. Hope I'm wrong.

And he might. Look, if $8M would get it done I wouldn't scream and yell. But you can't keep adding $1M and playing that game:

- Well if $7M is ok, then why not $8M.

- Fine. $8M. 

- Well if $8M is ok then why not $9M?

- [sigh] OK. $9M, but that's it. I wanted to pay $7M.

- Well if you're willing to pay $9M then why not $10M? It's only $1M more -- you're going to let $1M ruin our season?!?

And on and on. I think that's the trap fans - and GMs - can fall into. You have your price then stick with it. Only go up if it's the final offer and you know an extra $1M (from where you wanted to be) absolutely ends it. Otherwise tell him to enjoy his retirement.

[New York Mick]

Yay another Fitz thread. 

[Sperm Edwards]

4 minutes ago, New York Mick said:

Yay another Fitz thread. 

www.fitznation.com = the website formerly known as www.rexnation.com, formerly known as www.mevi$nation.com, etc.

[Shadetree]

8 minutes ago, New York Mick said:

Yay another Fitz thread. 

LOL

i just want to be done speculating and start talking about the young LBs I'm all excited about.

[New York Mick]

5 minutes ago, Shadetree said:

LOL

i just want to be done speculating and start talking about the young LBs I'm all excited about.

Homo

[AFJF]

1 hour ago, Maxman said:

You don't think that it is important to build continuity with a new QB in a new offense in preseason games and taking regular snaps through out training camp?

There was no reason to switch, Fitz was playing average football at the start of the season. The Jets were hoping for average QB play. Geno could have come in and played below average or above average. He is an unknown because he is young and has never played in a real offense before last season.

If Geno is the better/younger player with more upside and a stronger arm, why let a few missed preseason games ruin the season?  

Because Fitz beat the mighty Cleveland Browns and scored a few points against Indianapolis when the defense created a million turnovers?  

If they won 10 games with Fitzpatrick,  clearly  they would have won at least 12 with Geno.  

How did Bowles not see that?

[AFJF]

2 hours ago, Maxman said:

Is that some Fitz Juice on your chin or are you just happy to see me lol.

2-0 man....2-0.... You never make a quarterback change when you're team is 2-0.  Never!

[Villain The Foe]

6 hours ago, AFJF said:

Bart Scott is 100% right, and that's why I've just about given up on Geno.

Geno was healthy by week three but still couldn't unseat Fitz.

Making matters worse, Fitz isn't even under contract, yet the HC has told the world he's slated to start over Geno in 2016.

If you're getting beat out by a guy who would be a back up on 20 other teams, it says you're a third-stringer for 20 other teams.

Not really. Bart also said that Osweiler got paid because of his age and future potential and that's the difference between Os and Fitz. 

Geno didnt lose his position via competition, matter of fact, he was handling his business from what we all heard. The fact that the Jets started off 4-0 is why by week 3 Geno didnt unseat Fitz. 

Franchise QB's are the only QB's who can unseat a guy that's starts off like that. The situation would have been the exact same if Fitz was in Geno's shoes. Bart Scott's comments doesnt say much about Geno because we dont havent seen what Geno can do with this talent and new group of coaches. The fact that Geno still has that growth and potential given his age (the dude is still  on his rookie deal) doesnt mean that he would be a 3rd stringer for 20 other teams. The reason why that is relevant to Fitz is beause Fitz is past his prime and can only go down.

And lastly, Fitz didnt beat out Geno, Bowles simply decided to keep Fitz at the QB when Geno came back from injury because of our record. If anything, Geno beat Fitz during the preseason while every reporter tweeted about it. 

[AFJF]

2 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Not really. Bart also said that Osweiler got paid because of his age and future potential and that's the difference between Os and Fitz. 

Geno didnt lose his position via competition, matter of fact, he was handling his business from what we all heard. The fact that the Jets started off 4-0 is why by week 3 Geno didnt unseat Fitz. 

Franchise QB's are the only QB's who can unseat a guy that's starts off like that. The situation would have been the exact same if Fitz was in Geno's shoes. Bart Scott's comments doesnt say much about Geno because we dont havent seen what Geno can do with this talent and new group of coaches. The fact that Geno still has that growth and potential given his age (the dude is still  on his rookie deal) doesnt mean that he would be a 3rd stringer for 20 other teams. The reason why that is relevant to Fitz is beause Fitz is past his prime and can only go down.

And lastly, Fitz didnt beat out Geno, Bowles simply decided to keep Fitz at the QB when Geno came back from injury because of our record. If anything, Geno beat Fitz during the preseason while every reporter tweeted about it. 

SMH

[Villain The Foe]

1 minute ago, AFJF said:

SMH

Typically. 

[JetBlue]

36 minutes ago, AFJF said:

SMH

Why are you shaking your head? Do you believe Geno would have lost the job during pre-season?  I personally thought he would been the opening day starter if he had not got punched. You don't see that as a possibility?

[jetrider]

4 hours ago, AFJF said:

They were undefeated when Geno was dressed and active.  They were 2-0 and the offense was pretty meh.  Even still, that was good enough to keep Geno on the bench.

I wonder if Belichick sticks with Garrapolo if Brady is suspended for two games and Pats are 2-0 with Brady on the bench.

Does he go with the undefeated QB, or does the best player get on the field as soon as possible?

That's a very ridiculous analogy. The gap between Fitz/Geno ≠ the gap between Brady/Garoppolo.

Secondly, Brady has a long history of winning with BB.

Newly hired Jets GM, HC, OC had no game experience of any kind with Geno. However, Gailey and Fitz had a three year stint together in Buffalo.

To stop the horses and backtrack to get Geno up to speed when they were having success with Fitz would've made zero sense.

At 2-0 and no preseason appearances Geno wasn't trying to "unseat" Fitz but don't let facts and logic get in the way of your emotions. 

 

 

 

 

[jetrider]

7 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

@Warfish Read Bart Scott's comments above. This should help. 

Hey Villain, please read Bart Scott's comments. This should help you get a clue to how our QB depth chart looks. 

 

 

Quote

 

And the Jets' current quarterbacks are Geno Smith (failed starter), Bryce Petty (second-year pro), and Christian Hackenberg (rookie). 

Maybe Hackenberg will develop into the Jets' future starting quarterback, but he's not that right now. So it would behoove the Jets to let the kid sit and learn from a veteran like Fitzpatrick in 2016 — if, that is, the Jets are able to re-sign Fitzpatrick.

 

 Why not Petty??? 

 

 

[Ohio State NY Jets fan]

Go Bart, always liked him even if he wants to be a coach upstate

[AFJF]

36 minutes ago, JetBlue said:

Why are you shaking your head? Do you believe Geno would have lost the job during pre-season?  I personally thought he would been the opening day starter if he had not got punched. You don't see that as a possibility?

I think he would have started the first four games and been benched during the bye week.  Of course neither of us can prove what we "think" would have happened.  What did happen, was that Bowles kept Geno on the bench for 14 weeks in a row in favor of Fitz despite the fact that Geno is "better". 

[JetBlue]

29 minutes ago, AFJF said:

I think he would have started the first four games and been benched during the bye week.  Of course neither of us can prove what we "think" would have happened.  What did happen, was that Bowles kept Geno on the bench for 14 weeks in a row in favor of Fitz despite the fact that Geno is "better". 

You keep pushing that argument and it as already been stated that there was no reason to make the change.  That is not the issue. You assume he loses his job in 4 weeks,? Why?  If the team  2-2 or 3-1 they make the change?  The bottom line is the 2016 season is over. If Fitz is not resigned Geno probably starts.  This will his audition to other teams and I think he will play a lot better than he has so far in his career.  

[JetBlue]

1 hour ago, jetrider said:

That's a very ridiculous analogy. The gap between Fitz/Geno ≠ the gap between Brady/Garoppolo.

Secondly, Brady has a long history of winning with BB.

Newly hired Jets GM, HC, OC had no game experience of any kind with Geno. However, Gailey and Fitz had a three year stint together in Buffalo.

To stop the horses and backtrack to get Geno up to speed when they were having success with Fitz would've made zero sense.

At 2-0 and no preseason appearances Geno wasn't trying to "unseat" Fitz but don't let facts and logic get in the way of your emotions. 

 

 

 

 

Awesome post. 

[AFJF]

3 minutes ago, JetBlue said:

You keep pushing that argument and it as already been stated that there was no reason to make the change.  That is not the issue. You assume he loses his job in 4 weeks,? Why?  If the team  2-2 or 3-1 they make the change?  The bottom line is the 2016 season is over. If Fitz is not resigned Geno probably starts.  This will his audition to other teams and I think he will play a lot better than he has so far in his career.  

My belief is that the Jets think Fitz is a better QB.  Why in the world would I abandon the facts that support my stance?

The team was 2-0...why are people pretending they were in position to lock up home field advantage throughout the playoffs?  If all it takes is a 2-0 start to lose your job as the "starting" QB, the team didn't think that much of you to begin with IMO.