Villain The Foe Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 We all have our opinions on guys like Geno Smith, Mark Sanchez etc. However, looking at another thread I seen someone post a GIF, and this GIF is rather popular when talking about Schotty. Many "Geno supporters" are not supporters Geno because they think he's better than Fitz, for example. Many Geno supporters (such as myself) main position is the fact that Geno Smith didnt have talent around him, nor did he have competent coaching. Some of us thought that Geno shouldnt have started his rookie year, which he most likely wasnt if not for the incompetent coaching in the preseason by Rex Ryan. Many people question or even criticize Geno's competence, even Mark Sanchez when he was here. Yet the above GIF shows the incompetence of the coaching staff and the type plays they call on situational downs. Some people who like the Hackenberg signing want to see him start because of his I.Q. (again, questioning the current QB's competence level). And I'll admit, after watching the breakdown film of Hackenberg you can see, in detail that the guy is pretty smart. I will touch on the Hackenberg situation again later, However, check out this GIF's below and see the lack of trust by the coaching staff toward's Geno, though Geno gets it correct and capitalizes on the play. Look at Geno Smith call out the "mike" and inform's Bilal Powell afterwards that he's lined up wrong in the backfield. If you look at the top-right of the GIF you see Marty Morningwhatever immediately begin calling timeout the moment Powell lines up wrong. The first problem is that MM isnt able to call a timeout, thats the HC's job if you're on the sideline. 2ndly, he didnt give his QB an opportunity to demonstrate his I.Q. and fix the situation himself, completely taking that part of the game out of the equation for Geno Smith. Fortunately for us we were able to see the play transpire and based on the competence of Geno to recognize the mistake and fix it, this is then what occurs. Geno makes a heads up play pre-snap, then an even better throw as he throws a dime to Kerley for the TD to tie the game. One of the few throws he was able to make while not being hit. However, controversy pursues.... Rex has no idea (initially) who called the timeout or why because Rex knows that its his job to call a timeout on the sideline. However, the lack of structure (or respect) is why this even happened. Marty felt that he was in a position to do this though its not even legal for him to do so. Sheldon Richardson, trying to support Marty, then tries to call the timeout as well. Meanwhile, NO ONE is recognizing that Geno has the situation under control, made the change and threw the TD to tie up the game that the Jets were winning I believe 21-0 at one point. This was one of the more direct coaching blunders that its hard to overlook because its so damn obvious the level of incompetency and confusion going on. From Rex, to Marty, to players overstepping themselves. No one really ever talks about Geno's ability to recognize the situation and fix it. Check out the highlights from this game below. Check our LG get destroyed this game and how often Geno was getting hit while throwing the ball. This is the same game when Sudfeld allowed a defender to intercept the ball. On that play, look at the LG in one-on-one action get completely abused which altered the throw....but then you see Sudfeld not even help out his QB and try to jump and either catch or bat the ball down. This is a team sport, and I believe that Geno has his own share of problems, but only having options such as Zach Sudfeld, a guy who doesnt have the wherewithal to help his QB out on this particular play like the way Brandon Marshall was helping out Fitz on quite a few errant throws that Marshall ultimately turned into TD's, This team's success isnt just based on the competency of the QB, but it has to do with alot of the competency of people who arent even on the football field. For years we've talked about how bad our HC's/OC's were all the way back to guys like Paul Hackett, Herm Edwards etc. Think about this deeply. Rex Ryan got his starting QB hurt all for the purpose of winning a snoopy bowl preseason game. People can have their opinions about Geno Smith, some are valid. All im saying is, this is NOT the same situation and all im saying is that maybe you guys should give Geno a shot because Just like we tend not to remember how smart and alert Geno was on this play is the same way we dont remember how Fitz has thrown a number of straight up "bad throws" that Marshall turned into touchdowns. Oh, and maybe, just maybe the way Macc seen the qualities in Hackenberg throughout that bad situation and bad tape, maybe he seen some qualities in Geno based on those first 2 seasons as well, which is why he's willing to move forward, understanding that he has better coaching and better players in order to put Geno in an overall better situation.....just like he did Ryan Fitzpatrick! Check out the video below. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCP63 Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 That first play is called spacing. One of the most simple yet effective passing concepts at every level of football. Out of all of the dumb play calls, that's not one of them. In fact, Geno made the wrong read on the play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villain The Foe Posted May 11, 2016 Author Share Posted May 11, 2016 2 minutes ago, PCP63 said: That first play is called spacing. One of the most simple yet effective passing concepts at every level of football. Out of all of the dumb play calls, that's not one of them. When its 3rd and 6 and your OC calls a spacing play that requires every WR to run a 6 yard curl route....basically "coming back to the ball". Its a dumb ass play call that ultimately made the QB/offense ineffective in the completion of the play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCP63 Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 1 minute ago, Villain The Foe said: When its 3rd and 6 and your OC calls a spacing play that requires every WR to run a 6 yard curl route....basically "coming back to the ball". Its a dumb ass play call. It was open. Had the right read been made, it would've been a first down before that safety could come down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYs Stepchild Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 4 minutes ago, PCP63 said: That first play is called spacing. One of the most simple yet effective passing concepts at every level of football. Out of all of the dumb play calls, that's not one of them. If the spacing went one yard past the first down marker it would be okay...it doesn't and we saw this hundreds of times from Shotty. If it's 3rd and 3 we're running 2 yard routes. That'll fool'em Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villain The Foe Posted May 11, 2016 Author Share Posted May 11, 2016 2 minutes ago, PCP63 said: It was open. Had the right read been made, it would've been a first down before that safety could come down. All of the routes were open. The problem is not either expecting a safety to get to the outside guy late, or him breaking a tackle. Just call a play that goes past the f'ing first down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCP63 Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 Just now, Villain The Foe said: All of the routes were open. Open with space for a first down. Not a great play call, but enough to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Jets fan Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 Everyone can post 40 plays that show Geno for what he is, terrible. He is a meat head who can not play QB. What is it with people? Did you not watch 2013 and 2014? or the Raider game last year? Please sign Fitz and cut his a$$ so we don't have to keep getting these crazy topics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snell41 Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 8 minutes ago, PCP63 said: That first play is called spacing. One of the most simple yet effective passing concepts at every level of football. Out of all of the dumb play calls, that's not one of them. In fact, Geno made the wrong read on the play. The first play was Sanchez, and I am assuming you think he should have thrown it to 25 on the bottom sideline. That ball would have taken longr to get there, and while I agree that was the right read, I still doubt it results in a 1st down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYs Stepchild Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 2 minutes ago, PCP63 said: It was open. Had the right read been made, it would've been a first down before that safety could come down. Why in the world wouldn't you have all the receivers run past the sticks? MAybe let the TE, and RB run underneath, but then don't have their momentum carrying them backwards. We saw this play out hundreds of times, and it worked out maybe 10%. Nothing worse than a 3rd down completion that leads to a punt. This is the main reason we hate Shotty. The others are all the motions, the play action with an empty backfield, the plays with 3 or more receivers in the same area, and the shotgun calls on short yardage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villain The Foe Posted May 11, 2016 Author Share Posted May 11, 2016 Just now, PCP63 said: Open with space for a first down. Not a great play call, but enough to work. It wasnt enough, obviously. A better play would have been one that provided "vertical" spacing with options past the first down marker. Which is the purpose im presenting when talking about the level of competency of people who arent even on the football field. Because again, throwing it to #25 doesnt mean for sure Tthat if the catch is made its a first down. however, if a route is past the marker and caught you dont have to worry about YAC for the conversion. Maybe that's more understandable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowlesMovement Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 Rex was AWFUL, absolutely AWFUL, and I would expect Geno to play much more competent football under a competent coach. My biggest qualm with Geno has been his lack of leadership. He has just had too many lack of leadership moments, and it always seemed to me that his teammates just don't like him. Its always possible that changes, but for the most part, you are who you are from a personality standpoint, and you can tweak your personality, its hard to make wholesale changes. That said, your point is a very fair point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villain The Foe Posted May 11, 2016 Author Share Posted May 11, 2016 2 minutes ago, Joe Jets fan said: Everyone can post 40 plays that show Geno for what he is, terrible. He is a meat head who can not play QB. What is it with people? Did you not watch 2013 and 2014? or the Raider game last year? Please sign Fitz and cut his a$$ so we don't have to keep getting these crazy topics. This isnt the raiders game, but the packers game. However, if you projected his numbers from that Raiders game his stats would have been better than Fitz. Do me a favor, post those 40 plays and stop talking about it. post them right in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Schroy Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 17 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said: When its 3rd and 6 and your OC calls a spacing play that requires every WR to run a 6 yard curl route....basically "coming back to the ball". Its a dumb ass play call that ultimately made the QB/offense ineffective in the completion of the play. After a few years gone by, that video is just as embarrassing and cringe worthy today as it was then.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYs Stepchild Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 13 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said: This isnt the raiders game, but the packers game. However, if you projected his numbers from that Raiders game his stats would have been better than Fitz. Do me a favor, post those 40 plays and stop talking about it. post them right in this thread. He did go 2-8 with 3 ints against the Bills. I believe he may be the first QB to accomplish that feat. He wasn't really bad in the Raiders game last year. Wasn't great though. He does have more talent than Fitz but Fitz just runs the team better. They took on his nervous personality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 They are all back ups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rex-n-effect Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 So is our current coaching staff garbage or did Geno suck all on his own in the Raiders game last year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerfish Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 Sanchez and Geno suck donkey balls and no amount of coaching blame can cover for all the heinous acts of QB play when everything else went right and they made stupid plays always at the worst time of the game and always at a terrible spot on the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbatesman Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 1 hour ago, Villain The Foe said: It wasnt enough, obviously. A better play would have been one that provided "vertical" spacing with options past the first down marker. Which is the purpose im presenting when talking about the level of competency of people who arent even on the football field. Because again, throwing it to #25 doesnt mean for sure Tthat if the catch is made its a first down. however, if a route is past the marker and caught you dont have to worry about YAC for the conversion. Maybe that's more understandable. We are seriously through the looking glass with this sh*t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villain The Foe Posted May 11, 2016 Author Share Posted May 11, 2016 2 hours ago, Larz said: They are all back ups. Pre-Tood Bowles and Chan Gailey, yea sure. But last year this time Fitzpatrick was nothing more than a back up....today some fans are in agreement with paying him anything just to get him into camp. If thats the case then atleast convert a young back up so next year if we have to pay a guy 15 million atleast it'll come with potential upside and youth. I cant disagree with your position though. Until its actually produced on the field, they're all back ups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villain The Foe Posted May 11, 2016 Author Share Posted May 11, 2016 1 hour ago, dbatesman said: We are seriously through the looking glass with this sh*t. Thats what I thought, until someone said that Schotty play was a good playcall. Then I realized that we never made it though, but are still in the rabbit hole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villain The Foe Posted May 11, 2016 Author Share Posted May 11, 2016 3 hours ago, NYs Stepchild said: He did go 2-8 with 3 ints against the Bills. I believe he may be the first QB to accomplish that feat. He wasn't really bad in the Raiders game last year. Wasn't great though. He does have more talent than Fitz but Fitz just runs the team better. They took on his nervous personality. He probably did, but what is the topic of this thread? I know it's not hard to follow. I understand what Geno did or didnt do. Im talking about everything else that surrounded those 2 years and how it played an important part to lack of development and overall lackluster football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bealeb319 Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 Geno, Hack, Petty...I don't care which one steps up I am just ready for us to have a competent starter for a few seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 3 hours ago, Joe Jets fan said: Everyone can post 40 plays that show Geno for what he is, terrible. He is a meat head who can not play QB. What is it with people? Did you not watch 2013 and 2014? or the Raider game last year? Please sign Fitz and cut his a$$ so we don't have to keep getting these crazy topics. I think some folks have that critical week 17 game against the Dolphins two seasons ago on a loop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Lonelyhearts Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 2 hours ago, Villain The Foe said: We all have our opinions on guys like Geno Smith, Mark Sanchez etc. However, looking at another thread I seen someone post a GIF, and this GIF is rather popular when talking about Schotty. 3 hours ago, Villain The Foe said: It wasnt enough, obviously. A better play would have been one that provided "vertical" spacing with options past the first down marker. Which is the purpose im presenting when talking about the level of competency of people who arent even on the football field. Because again, throwing it to #25 doesnt mean for sure Tthat if the catch is made its a first down. however, if a route is past the marker and caught you dont have to worry about YAC for the conversion. Maybe that's more understandable. It's not remotely understandable. You are completely wrong about everything and don't seem to have the first clue what you're even watching. Sanchez blows the read and then blows the throw. It has nothing to do with the offensive coordinator and nothing to do with the play. All curls is a west coast staple and is part of every team's quick passing offense, largely for situations just like this one. The route depth is exactly where it's supposed to be, and not doing what you suggest is precisely why the play works. Vertical spacing isn't for converting third downs. The risk/reward decision between longer, tougher passes and shorter, easier ones is different when an unsuccessful play results in losing possession as well as the down. Here you want to spread them out horizontally and make them guard the whole line. Check. The reason the throw is short of the marker is that the defense knows where the line is too. See? There they are. The decreased likelihood of completing the pass in the first place without the cushion the play is designed to create outweighs the benefit of not having to pick up a yard after the catch is made. That's how it works in theory, anyway. In practice, Sanchez makes the wrong throw and makes it late. The read is even or odd coverage. Against cover-2 the seam is open, against cover-3 the flat is open. The outside linebacker is actually the read on the play, but here you can tell they're in cover-3 right at the snap because the cornerback at the bottom of the screen is already dropping off. Sanchez misses that, doesn't pick up his key, and throws it to the wrong guy, so the play is probably DOA right there, but just to make sure, he doesn't release the ball until the receiver is already out of his break. And yes, that is absolutely a first down if Sanchez doesn't just totally screw it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 not this again.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villain The Foe Posted May 11, 2016 Author Share Posted May 11, 2016 58 minutes ago, bealeb319 said: Geno, Hack, Petty...I don't care which one steps up I am just ready for us to have a competent starter for a few seasons. I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villain The Foe Posted May 11, 2016 Author Share Posted May 11, 2016 5 minutes ago, CTM said: not this again.. It doesnt have to be. I counted 22 different threads on the first page alone. And I bet there's more on the other pages too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 3 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said: It doesnt have to be. I counted 22 different threads on the first page alone. And I bet there's more on the other pages too! this is covered by 12 yo's on madden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Lonelyhearts Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 3 minutes ago, CTM said: this is covered by 12 yo's on madden Masterful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villain The Foe Posted May 12, 2016 Author Share Posted May 12, 2016 6 minutes ago, CTM said: this is covered by 12 yo's on madden Maybe Schotty should have ran this play instead of having all 4 receivers curl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 Do we know for sure that Hackenberg sucks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYs Stepchild Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 1 hour ago, Villain The Foe said: He probably did, but what is the topic of this thread? I know it's not hard to follow. I understand what Geno did or didnt do. Im talking about everything else that surrounded those 2 years and how it played an important part to lack of development and overall lackluster football. You're the one who wanted a list of 40 plays that showed Geno's incompetence. I thought I would start with these 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j4jets Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 6 hours ago, PCP63 said: That first play is called spacing. One of the most simple yet effective passing concepts at every level of football. Out of all of the dumb play calls, that's not one of them. In fact, Geno made the wrong read on the play. Lol we had 4 receivers covered behind the FD line and somehow Geno made the went call. Ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villain The Foe Posted May 12, 2016 Author Share Posted May 12, 2016 1 hour ago, NYs Stepchild said: You're the one who wanted a list of 40 plays that showed Geno's incompetence. I thought I would start with these 3. Actually what I wanted is for people to be able to read the topic and follow it. The fact that it was met with the 40 plays comment then yours shows that some people just need to be put on ignore because they're not interested in the topic. And when you find the 37 to add to the 3 that you already found, then go try and find 40 under Chan Gailey and Todd Bowles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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