Why we haven't seen Hack IMO

[Matt39]

3 minutes ago, jett said:

I disagree with this, and I disliked the hack pick a lot. My thought process is if you can't play in college, how will you play well in the NFL? Of course this has happened in the past, where players figure it out or maybe it truly was a coaching issue... But my thought process is if a player is truly good he will overcome obstacles and show promise and play well given bad circumstances.  He didn't do that. 

However, it's been literally a few weeks, every player from first round picks to undrafted players should be given a fair shot. Cutting him now literally makes no sense. He can still develop. Accuracy isn't something that can really be taught at this point, but hey who knows. Some players looked awful but they figure it out sometimes. Sometimes you get guys who can straight up kill it in practice and are terrible in games, and vice versa. Look at geno. All we ever hear about is how great he looks on practice. But he plays terrible in games! 

 

I'm saying I'll give hack two seasons of grace period. If he doesn't show next season at least something to the coaches then his 3rd year should be do or die for him. But a few weeks into his rookie campaign? No way. 

 

 

My issue with the entire thing here is he's obviously not playing right now because the organization is afraid of an emperor has no clothes situation. You cant preach competition, best guys make the team etc and then carry a guy who cant complete a pass in shorts. This has nothing to do with finding out what "Petty has" or anything else. He's looked so bad in his limited reps they cant even let him play. Hackenberg's a second round pick...you dont get redshirts in the pros.

[Mogglez]

2 hours ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Except Bryce Petty looked competent in college. 

Yeah, you know except for the fact that he didn't even know what a Mike LB was, along with their responsibilities, until the end of last season. But hey, lets do what we always do and overhype preseason games and forget reality.  

[Mogglez]

3 hours ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Another theory is that he just flat out sucks and they wasted a 2nd rounder on a guy they could have had in the 5th. 

 

Oh look, when you don't cherry pick tweets it's a completely different narrative.

 

[Mogglez]

29 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

My issue with the entire thing here is he's obviously not playing right now because the organization is afraid of an emperor has no clothes situation. You cant preach competition, best guys make the team etc and then carry a guy who cant complete a pass in shorts. This has nothing to do with finding out what "Petty has" or anything else. He's looked so bad in his limited reps they cant even let him play. Hackenberg's a second round pick...you dont get redshirts in the pros.

You are very, very, very, wrong with this gem, along with thinking that Hack not getting many reps right now has nothing to do with figuring out whether or not Petty can replace Geno as the primary back-up. That has like, everything to do with it. 

[Matt39]

1 minute ago, Mogglez said:

You are very, very, very, wrong with this gem, along with thinking that Hack not getting many reps right now has nothing to do with figuring out whether or not Petty can replace Geno as the primary back-up. That has like, everything to do with it.

Finding out who the primary back up is a waste of time. Geno is gone next year regardless and if Fitz gets hurt the season is over anyways.

[Jet Nut]

2 hours ago, Matt39 said:

Maccagnan has some splainin to do...especially if Lynch starts in Denver. 

 

Hackeberg should 100% be cut.

If a moron was in charge, yes. 

Then that moron should cut Mo.  He hasn't played this preseason too. 

[Mogglez]

2 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Finding out who the primary back up is a waste of time. Geno is gone next year regardless and if Fitz gets hurt the season is over anyways.

So finding whether or not we should only carry three guys to open a possibly crucial roster spot for someone else is a waste of time.  Our FO, who is watching our young WR's impress everyone, probably disagrees with that.  

How about saving the money we can by cutting Geno before opening day? Even if it's only 1-2mil it's still something.  Is that "a waste"? 

[Matt39]

4 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

So finding whether or not we should only carry three guys to open a possibly crucial roster spot for someone else is a waste of time.  Our FO, who is watching our young WR's impress everyone, probably disagrees with that.  

How about saving the money we can by cutting Geno before opening day? Even if it's only 1-2mil it's still something.  Is that "a waste"? 

Since we cant go back and not pick Hackenberg, the second Fitz walked in the door Geno probably should have been released instead of this 4 QB charade that's doing zero favors to anyone. Geno will never be the starter here. You dont keep a guy as a career backup when you have a guy starting that  you probably want to replace sooner than later.

[Beerfish]

3 hours ago, Tinstar said:

Almost exactly what was being said about Bryce Petty this time last year and at the start of training camp this year .

Bryce Petty in the 1st ex game last year was 10-18 in the 2nd ex game he was 12-19 with a td and Petty is a 4th round pick, yeah about the time you take long term developmental qbs.

 

Aaaron rogers never started for years!!!  He played in every single ex game for the packers in his 1st year.

 

What the jets are doing with hackenburg is pretty well unheard of, not the part about bringing a guy along slowly but giving him almost no meaningful camp reps and zero time in the ex season.  this guy is a 2nd round pick, not a 4,5,6,7 udfa.  Heck his camp reports sound just bloody horrible, far worse than some of our previous nightmare qbs of the past.

 

People are saying he needs his mechanics worked on and our oc comes flat out and says they have done nothing to his mechanics so far.

He will be here long term because teams don't just dump 2nd round qb's he'll get lots of time but we passed on some nice oline and secondary prospects for this QB and more importantly we passed on what sounds like a far far far better developmental qb in the 1st round.

[Tinstar]

Here's what I don't understand . I wanted to draft Hackenberg, and I am not at all worried about what is being written about this kid or the fact that he hasn't gotten into games or that his reps are limited in camp. Would I like to see him in a pre season game, most assuredly but with 4 QBs on the roster and with how the defense and the top 2 QBs have played, I get it . Why are folks who didn't want this kid here panicking so much because what they believed actually looks to be true ?  The kid will be fine, and just because what everyone expects isn't what is happening, doesn't make it  wrong .

The Cowboys have Romo and nobody else. The Broncos have what exactly . Jared Goff looks like he has never played the game of football before . We want to rush these kid and throw labels at them when they don't meet our expectations .

I applaud what the Jets are doing with Hackenberg .

That is all .

[Mogglez]

4 hours ago, C Mart said:

I hope the Jets never have the overall #1 pick and take a QB. Poor guy will never stand a chance with this fanbase. 

We could have Andrew Luck or Jameis Winston and there would be morons screaming their heads off over every little thing.

 

48 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Since we cant go back and not pick Hackenberg, the second Fitz walked in the door Geno probably should have been released instead of this 4 QB charade that's doing zero favors to anyone. Geno will never be the starter here. You dont keep a guy as a career backup when you have a guy starting that  you probably want to replace sooner than later.

That has abaolutely nothing to do with whats going on now and addressed nothing that I said. At the time Geno was the only backup with in game experience so, before his preseason implosion, it would have been beyond stupid to cut him.  Now we're in a totally different situation where our 4th round project looks awesome and far beyond where we expected him to be.  It changes everything.  Hack has had bad days but he's had some good ones if you've followed closely enough.  You clearly have some deep disadain for him though so it's all moot.  You've already decided what's going to become of our 2nd round pick that was deemed from day one to be a guy that should sit and learn in year one. 

[dbatesman]

22 minutes ago, Tinstar said:

The Cowboys have Romo and nobody else.

Actually, the Cowboys have Romo and Dak Prescott, who: was and is a superior prospect to Hackenberg in every significant way, was available more than two full rounds later than Hackenberg, is actually playing in the preseason, and has the inside track on the Cowboys backup job.

[Tinstar]

1 minute ago, dbatesman said:

Actually, the Cowboys have Romo and Dak Prescott, who: was and is a superior prospect to Hackenberg in every significant way, was available more than two full rounds later than Hackenberg, is actually playing in the preseason, and has the inside track on the Cowboys backup job.

Thus the reason why the Cowboys were mentioned . Wanna guess why the Broncos were mentioned ?

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, Beerfish said:

.

He will be here long term because teams don't just dump 2nd round qb's he'll get lots of time but we passed on some nice oline and secondary prospects for this QB and more importantly we passed on what sounds like a far far far better developmental qb in the 1st round.

Lynch looks like nothing special so far.  Struggled up to a few minutes left in their game last night.  But of course you've been crying about Hackenberg since the day he was drafted.  if the Jets had drafted that QB in the first you would have whined about him.  Because you pretty much whine about every single Jets draft pick for years.  It's what you do.  So really what's the difference?  

[Mogglez]

1 hour ago, Beerfish said:

Bryce Petty in the 1st ex game last year was 10-18 in the 2nd ex game he was 12-19 with a td and Petty is a 4th round pick, yeah about the time you take long term developmental qbs.

 

Aaaron rogers never started for years!!!  He played in every single ex game for the packers in his 1st year.

 

What the jets are doing with hackenburg is pretty well unheard of, not the part about bringing a guy along slowly but giving him almost no meaningful camp reps and zero time in the ex season.  this guy is a 2nd round pick, not a 4,5,6,7 udfa.  Heck his camp reports sound just bloody horrible, far worse than some of our previous nightmare qbs of the past.

 

People are saying he needs his mechanics worked on and our oc comes flat out and says they have done nothing to his mechanics so far.

He will be here long term because teams don't just dump 2nd round qb's he'll get lots of time but we passed on some nice oline and secondary prospects for this QB and more importantly we passed on what sounds like a far far far better developmental qb in the 1st round.

Petty was "Eh" in his first game against the Lions.  Second game was better, but today we know that it was against guys who couldn't make it onto one of the worst defenses in football.  Doesn't discredit it, but it has to pump the brakes a little bit.

 I liked Petty last year, and still really like him, but people need to chill with him.  He's the "flavor of the month".  I get it.  I'm excited about him developing too because, frankly, I dont care which one of our two young guys develops into a starter.  I like them both.  That said, this is starting to get out of control.

Our head coach, QB coach, and Gailey have stated multiple times, since drafting him, that they are currently working with Hackenberg to fix his footwork along with other things mechanically.  They have also been helping him learn the pro game too.  Can't do evrything at once.  There's an entire season to help him in that department.

Again, he's had bad days and good days with limited reps.  Don't know why people are just focusing on the bad.  He threw a dime of a 44 yard TD to Jeremy Ross with the scout team against the 1's the other day. Didn't hear much about that here though.  As far as preseason reps are concerned, we have four QB's and a unique situation developing between Geno and Petty that is far more important than giving Hack handoff responsibilities in the 4th quarter.

I've discussed the whole Lynch vs Lee and Hack thing multiple times.  I really don't want to repeat it.

 

[Harlemnite1]

On August 20, 2016 at 7:15 AM, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Agreed.  It will be interesting to see how Geno reacts to the pressure.  

Could you imagine how much more interesting it would be if we hadn't signed fitz. 

That is how I knew Fitzpatrick was going to be signed. The coaching staff feared this.

[Beerfish]

48 minutes ago, Tinstar said:

Here's what I don't understand . I wanted to draft Hackenberg, and I am not at all worried about what is being written about this kid or the fact that he hasn't gotten into games or that his reps are limited in camp. Would I like to see him in a pre season game, most assuredly but with 4 QBs on the roster and with how the defense and the top 2 QBs have played, I get it . Why are folks who didn't want this kid here panicking so much because what they believed actually looks to be true ?  The kid will be fine, and just because what everyone expects isn't what is happening, doesn't make it  wrong .

The Cowboys have Romo and nobody else. The Broncos have what exactly . Jared Goff looks like he has never played the game of football before . We want to rush these kid and throw labels at them when they don't meet our expectations .

I applaud what the Jets are doing with Hackenberg .

That is all .

This time next year we will be talking about hackenburg and treating him like a raw rookie whom we have no clue at all about unless he starts getting some meaningful playing time.  After a full year you should start to have a clue about a player.  As I said you have nothing to worry about he'll be here for years no matter what, being a 2nd rounder.

[Beerfish]

18 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Lynch looks like nothing special so far.  Struggled up to a few minutes left in their game last night.  But of course you've been crying about Hackenberg since the day he was drafted.  if the Jets had drafted that QB in the first you would have whined about him.  Because you pretty much whine about every single Jets draft pick for years.  It's what you do.  So really what's the difference?  

No Lynch has looked good at times being a raw rookie, and he is out there taking his lumps, learning and at times showing why he was drafted.  Hackenburg is a big fat ? so far and the jets hardly have a legion of hof at qb.

[Jet Nut]

24 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

Actually, the Cowboys have Romo and Dak Prescott, who: was and is a superior prospect to Hackenberg in every significant way, was available more than two full rounds later than Hackenberg, is actually playing in the preseason, and has the inside track on the Cowboys backup job.

Superior prospect?  Because you've seen Hackenberg?  Because of a few preseason games? 

How did those good preseason games go for a Ratliff?  

[Beerfish]

18 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

Petty was "Eh" in his first game against the Lions.  Second game was better, but today we know that it was against guys who couldn't make it onto one of the worst defenses in football.  Doesn't discredit it, but it has to pump the brakes a little bit.

 I liked Petty last year, and still really like him, but people need to chill with him.  He's the "flavor of the month".  I get it.  I'm excited about him developing too because, frankly, I dont care which one of our two young guys develops into a starter.  I like them both.  That said, this is starting to get out of control.

Our head coach, QB coach, and Gailey have stated multiple times, since drafting him, that they are currently working with Hackenberg to fix his footwork along with other things mechanically.  They have also been helping him learn the pro game too.  Can't do evrything at once.  There's an entire season to help him in that department.

Again, he's had bad days and good days with limited reps.  Don't know why people are just focusing on the bad.  He threw a dime of a 44 yard TD to Jeremy Ross with the scout team against the 1's the other day. Didn't hear much about that here though.  As far as preseason reps are concerned, we have four QB's and a unique situation developing between Geno and Petty that is far more important than giving Hack handoff responsibilities in the 4th quarter.

I've discussed the whole Lynch vs Lee and Hack thing multiple times.  I really don't want to repeat it.

 

Actually gaily said that they were doing nothing to his mechanics and doing nothing because he does not like to mess with a guys mechanics coming out of college unless it is 100% necessary,

 

Hey if he was a 4, 5 or 6th rounder no big deal, you can shed those guys if they don;t work out but I don;t recall a qb drafted this early getting almost no reps or playing time.  And i hope to hell they do not make the same mistake they made with sanchez, coddling.

[Tinstar]

3 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

No Lynch has looked good at times being a raw rookie, and he is out there taking his lumps, learning and at times showing why he was drafted.  Hackenburg is a big fat ? so far and the jets hardly have a legion of hof at qb.

agreed, but what they do have is an unquestioned starter, a designated #2 and another player who most fans think should be the #2 all ahead of Hackenberg .  What exactly is the rush ?

[Jet Nut]

9 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

No Lynch has looked good at times being a raw rookie, and he is out there taking his lumps, learning and at times showing why he was drafted.  Hackenburg is a big fat ? so far and the jets hardly have a legion of hof at qb.

He's also looked really bad.  It was also said by his HC that he struggled.  Really good in a game, 4th quarter, bottom of the roster scrubs, no game plan, no schemes proves nothing.  Can be less challenging than what you see in practices. 

We have our starting QB this year in place.  Denver will probably play musical chairs with the position.  Little differenet than the Jets situation.  I would guess the coaching could care less what our evaluation is or isn't due to his not playing.  They're more concerned with getting him ready their way.  

Why can't he just develop at their pace without some fans translating it mean he sucks. 

[JETSfaninNE]

8 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Actually gaily said that they were doing nothing to his mechanics and doing nothing because he does not like to mess with a guys mechanics coming out of college unless it is 100% necessary,

 

Hey if he was a 4, 5 or 6th rounder no big deal, you can shed those guys if they don;t work out but I don;t recall a qb drafted this early getting almost no reps or playing time.  And i hope to hell they do not make the same mistake they made with sanchez, coddling.

Do you have a source for that?  Not that I don't believe, just surprised I don't remember him ever saying that.

EDIT: disregard, I found it with a quick google search and yeah you were right, although they do make a few suggestions as of now but its interesting reading Gailey's approach.  Wonder how many years Gailey will be around for these young guys.

Quote

Gailey has seen some progress from Hackenberg, though it is clearly way too soon to determine if Hackenberg can be the Jets' future starting quarterback. 

"Yeah, he's grown," Gailey said. "It's hard to tell how much, because he's not getting the reps to really figure out how much. I'm sure he has grown. I think that's what he'd say, that he's learned a ton about the game.

"I think we all see his potential and what he can be. He's got all the tools. It's just a matter of him learning what needs to be done here, and then going out and doing it on a consistent basis. That's the key, is consistency in this league." 

Hackenberg's biggest challenge entering the NFL was to improve his accuracy. At some point, that might mean overhauling his throwing mechanics and/or footwork. But Gailey doesn't want to do that right now. And why not?

"We suggest things here and there [with mechanics]," Gailey said. "But it's hard to change guys completely mechanically in a preseason situation like this. You let him do what got him here. And then you take a full offseason, if you think there needs to be some changes. And that's where you implement real changes. 

"You might make suggestions here and there [right now]. If he wants to work on it a little bit, then you allow him to do that. But going out and trying to make some kind of wholesale change [right now], no, we wouldn't do that.

"I think that, in general, it takes thousands of reps to change a habit. So if you're going to change a habit, you need thousands of offseason reps. You don't need a few hundred throws a week. That's a big difference."

source

[dbatesman]

35 minutes ago, Tinstar said:

Thus the reason why the Cowboys were mentioned . Wanna guess why the Broncos were mentioned ?

Not really, because apparently I have no idea what the hell you're talking about.

[Mogglez]

44 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

This time next year we will be talking about hackenburg and treating him like a raw rookie whom we have no clue at all about unless he starts getting some meaningful playing time.  After a full year you should start to have a clue about a player.  As I said you have nothing to worry about he'll be here for years no matter what, being a 2nd rounder.

Gonna have to disagree with treating him like a raw rookie.  He's still going to get practice time over the course of the season and he's also going to be on the sideline on Sundays, just as Petty did.  Also, Hack is going to definitely get pre-season time.  Probably this week and if not, he will almost certainly get a lot of time against the Eagles.  I think it's fair to say there will be some expectations next year.  Rightfully so.

Also disagree with finalizing a player after one season.  The golden rule is two/three FULL years.  Rodgers couldn't hit the broad side of a barn his first two seasons and was, from a mechanical stand point, a total mess.  McCarthy is a great coach for simply doing what he did with Aaron. Personally, I think it's going to take more than one year for Macc to abandon the Hackenberg project.

[dbatesman]

24 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Superior prospect?  Because you've seen Hackenberg?  Because of a few preseason games? 

Because Prescott put up solid numbers in the SEC and because Hackenberg put up worse numbers than Matt McGloin.

[56mehl56]

4 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

Because Prescott put up solid numbers in the SEC and because Hackenberg put up worse numbers than Matt McGloin.

Not that I'm taking sides here , but the talent level of the Miss St team and a sanctioned Penn St team are light years apart. 

[Jet Nut]

4 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

Because Prescott put up solid numbers in the SEC and because Hackenberg put up worse numbers than Matt McGloin.

And of course more importantly you e never seen Hackengerg play in the NFL.  

QBs aren't ranked or drafted according to numbers on their own. 

[Mogglez]

 

36 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Actually gaily said that they were doing nothing to his mechanics and doing nothing because he does not like to mess with a guys mechanics coming out of college unless it is 100% necessary,

 

Hey if he was a 4, 5 or 6th rounder no big deal, you can shed those guys if they don;t work out but I don;t recall a qb drafted this early getting almost no reps or playing time.  And i hope to hell they do not make the same mistake they made with sanchez, coddling.

I know what article your referencing and after re-reading it, it sounds like Gailey is referring to his THROWING motion and whether or not he is going to overhaul that. For the most part his actual motion is ok.  His work with Jordan Palmer has cleaned it up to where it's a non issue.  It's quick and compact.  Footwork has definitely improved. Don't know now if that was Gailey or Palmer though.  Exact quote also sounds like something that he's going to address at another time just not right now.  It's really the easiest stuff to correct too so I'm not so concerned about Hack eventually doing it.  

In regards to his struggles, to me, it sounds like the kid is swimming a little bit. Kind of like Petty last year.  Very common for a rookie QB adjusting to the NFL.  I really think he's going to be fine, just want to see out fans exhibit some patience with the kid.  We rushed Sanchez and Geno and got nowhere.  I have faith that Macc and the Coaches will do this the right way. 

[Tinstar]

Quote

 

I have no idea what will become of Hackenberg . What I do know is that somehow, with his horrible play and a depleted talent base due to sanctions , he somehow managed to keep the Penn State program from having 1 losing season while he was the QB under his watch .  That's enough to make me interested and willing to invest time and patience to develop . I think Hackenberg can be a better Eli manning .

That is all

[dbatesman]

15 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

Not that I'm taking sides here , but the talent level of the Miss St team and a sanctioned Penn St team are light years apart. 

Plus Prescott didn't have James Franklin derailing his career at every available opportunity

[Mogglez]

32 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

Because Prescott put up solid numbers in the SEC and because Hackenberg put up worse numbers than Matt McGloin.

You know who else put up good numbers in the SEC?  Tim Tebow.  Greg McElroy.  Brandon Allen.  Jake Coker.  Tyler Wilson.  Ryan Mallet.  JaMarcus Russell.  Blaine Gabbert

You know who put up poor numbers his final year?  Jameis Winston.

How about Carson Wentz?  Put up solid numbers in a sh*t conference still got drafted high and was considered possibly the best QB prospect out of all of them.  Same with Lynch.

Saying Dak Prescott was looked at as a better pro prospect as Hackenberg isn't really accurate.  No one saw what Dak's doing right now coming.  This isn't Russell Wilson.  This was a complete surprise.  I liked Dak too and won't even pretend I saw this coming.  I think it's also important to remember that Dallas has an incredible line, offensive talent, and two games against two awful defenses.  For the most part, the two were looked at as big time wild-cards that could be steals with their talent level.  The book is far from written, for either guy.  Overreactions over either one is silly.

[Mogglez]

15 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

Plus Prescott didn't have James Franklin derailing his career at every available opportunity

No amount of hatred for one player is going to change the fact that James Franklin is a horrible coach and the hate he gets is completely warranted.  He's a solid recruiter but he's a horrible developer of talent.

[Harlemnite1]

On August 20, 2016 at 2:59 PM, Sarge4Tide said:

I think it's great he hasn't played yet.  Hope he's inactive for all 16 games.  Then next year, him and Petty can go to war and may the best man win  Hell, even if we bring Fitz back again in 17, with Petty as #2 and Hack doesn't play at all again in 17, that's fine with me, too.  I like Hack but 2 years of sitting and learning with no pressure would be great for him, or almost any NFL QB.  

 

We can't be wasting 2nd round picks on players that don't play. That is one of the arguments for not taking Hack that high. We could have had a OL, CB with that pick. Things we need kinda right now since our right side OL stinks and Milliner can't stay healthy.

[Jet Nut]

5 minutes ago, Harlemnite1 said:

 

We can't be wasting 2nd round picks on players that don't play. That is one of the arguments for not taking Hack that high. We could have had a OL, CB with that pick. Things we need kinda right now since our right side OL stinks and Milliner can't stay healthy.

Not when you're talking QB.  

Its not a pick where you expect an immediate return.