We have two QBs that pass the eye test

[greenwave81]

3 minutes ago, Maxman said:

I have posted what I feel like 8 billion times, so it isn't a cop out.

The Jets will end this debate soon. And when they do, I will be proven right because Geno Smith will be the backup QB.

That might very well be...but if they make that choice, it will have nothing to do with what happens with Petty,  It's not a 'either/or' question, which is what I've been trying to say.

[Kevin L]

5 minutes ago, greenwave81 said:

That's only part of the question IMO.

If you know Geno's outta here next year regardless, and Fitz ain't the answer, you can potentially have only 1 QB on the roster after this season if you cut Petty and that's Hack.

If that's the case then you just draft another Petty clone in the late rounds. Strong armed developmental QB's are a dime a dozen.

[greenwave81]

Just now, Kevin L said:

If that's the case then you just draft another Petty clone in the late rounds. Strong armed developmental QB's are a dime a dozen.

And two years behind in development.  Good times.

As I said, the question regarding whether to keep or deep six Petty is about what the FO thinks about Petty.  Has he made enough progress to satisfy the FO?  I think so, guess we'll see.

The Geno decision is another thing in and of itself, with a lot of other factors to consider. They are intertwined to an extent, that is, was Petty good enough to supplant Geno as the #2 today?  If they think so, then keeping Geno is a waste.  If not, they may keep 4 QB's...it all depends.  But cutting Petty because he didn't beat out Geno this year is nonsensical if he's making progress along with your predetermined goals and you think he still has promise...because Geno is gone after this season in all likelihood.

[Kevin L]

2 minutes ago, greenwave81 said:

And two years behind in development.  Good times.

As I said, the question regarding whether to keep or deep six Petty is about what the FO thinks about Petty.  Has he made enough progress to satisfy the FO?  I think so, guess we'll see.

The Geno decision is another thing in and of itself, with a lot of other factors to consider. They are intertwined to an extent, that is, was Petty good enough to supplant Geno as the #2 today?  If they think so, then keeping Geno is a waste.  If not, they may keep 4 QB's...it all depends.  But cutting Petty because he didn't beat out Geno this year is nonsensical if he's making progress along with your predetermined goals and you think he still has promise...because Geno is gone after this season in all likelihood.

Personally, I'd rather keep all 4. Gun to my head we can only keep 3, Petty goes.  I just don't see losing Petty as some kind of disaster in the making.

[flgreen]

14 minutes ago, Kevin L said:

Personally, I'd rather keep all 4. Gun to my head we can only keep 3, Petty goes.  I just don't see losing Petty as some kind of disaster in the making.

Thing with Petty is nobody knows what Petty is going to be.  He has certainly shown some flashes.  What we do know is smith, in all probability, won't be on the team next year.

I don't think that there's all that much difference between Petty and smith that it would be wise to give up on a promising player, that Macc drafted, for one year of smith

[isired]

Is it really a foregone conclusion that Petty doesn't make it to the practice squad? He's eligible, right? Just has to clear waivers? I feel like we've been watching him make a reasonably strong case that he's not ready to be on anyone's 53 right now.

Besides that... any Jets fan that didn't want to see Petty beat out Geno is an idiot... same as Geno beating out Sanchez 3 yrs ago... unless you have Brady/Rodgers/etc. under Center, you want your draft pick to beat your QB out soundly, Russell Wilson style, every year. But Petty was no Dak Prescott last year, or this. So the smart money is that the Jets go with experience, even though that experience is far from great, so either keep 4 QB or cut Petty... OR.... if they get an offer for Geno that is at all unreasonable in our favor, say the Cowboys want to give us Lynch for Geno and a conditional 6/7, maybe they roll the dice. Suring up the right side of our OL could be seen as making up whatever perceived difference there might be between Petty and Geno.

[flgreen]

7 minutes ago, isired said:

Is it really a foregone conclusion that Petty doesn't make it to the practice squad? He's eligible, right? Just has to clear waivers? I feel like we've been watching him make a reasonably strong case that he's not ready to be on anyone's 53 right now.

Besides that... any Jets fan that didn't want to see Petty beat out Geno is an idiot... same as Geno beating out Sanchez 3 yrs ago... unless you have Brady/Rodgers/etc. under Center, you want your draft pick to beat your QB out soundly, Russell Wilson style, every year. But Petty was no Dak Prescott last year, or this. So the smart money is that the Jets go with experience, even though that experience is far from great, so either keep 4 QB or cut Petty... OR.... if they get an offer for Geno that is at all unreasonable in our favor, say the Cowboys want to give us Lynch for Geno and a conditional 6/7, maybe they roll the dice. Suring up the right side of our OL could be seen as making up whatever perceived difference there might be between Petty and Geno.

IMO Sanchez perhaps becoming available changes the market for smith big time.  If there ever was a market

[Maxman]

9 minutes ago, isired said:

Is it really a foregone conclusion that Petty doesn't make it to the practice squad? He's eligible, right? Just has to clear waivers? I feel like we've been watching him make a reasonably strong case that he's not ready to be on anyone's 53 right now.

Besides that... any Jets fan that didn't want to see Petty beat out Geno is an idiot... same as Geno beating out Sanchez 3 yrs ago... unless you have Brady/Rodgers/etc. under Center, you want your draft pick to beat your QB out soundly, Russell Wilson style, every year. But Petty was no Dak Prescott last year, or this. So the smart money is that the Jets go with experience, even though that experience is far from great, so either keep 4 QB or cut Petty... OR.... if they get an offer for Geno that is at all unreasonable in our favor, say the Cowboys want to give us Lynch for Geno and a conditional 6/7, maybe they roll the dice. Suring up the right side of our OL could be seen as making up whatever perceived difference there might be between Petty and Geno.

Other than you calling people idiots, I agree, lol. I wanted Petty to beat him out. I am just don't think it happened. But that would be the best thing for the team, no doubt.

[greenwave81]

7 minutes ago, isired said:

Is it really a foregone conclusion that Petty doesn't make it to the practice squad? He's eligible, right? Just has to clear waivers? I feel like we've been watching him make a reasonably strong case that he's not ready to be on anyone's 53 right now.

Besides that... any Jets fan that didn't want to see Petty beat out Geno is an idiot... same as Geno beating out Sanchez 3 yrs ago... unless you have Brady/Rodgers/etc. under Center, you want your draft pick to beat your QB out soundly, Russell Wilson style, every year. But Petty was no Dak Prescott last year, or this. So the smart money is that the Jets go with experience, even though that experience is far from great, so either keep 4 QB or cut Petty... OR.... if they get an offer for Geno that is at all unreasonable in our favor, say the Cowboys want to give us Lynch for Geno and a conditional 6/7, maybe they roll the dice. Suring up the right side of our OL could be seen as making up whatever perceived difference there might be between Petty and Geno.

Petty wouldn't make it to our PS.  Petty looked as good as Geno in the PS, which is all other teams have to evaluate.  Gene is gone after this year.

Smart money is often stupid, especially when it's betting prior failures...but, I guess that's the history of the Jets.

 

[isired]

IMO Sanchez perhaps becoming available changes the market for smith big time.  If there ever was a market

Not sure if it's funny or really, really sad that those 2 could be the desperation moves this year. But agree that if Sanchez is cut, and can be had for nothing, the trade market for Geno (if there ever was a market) evaporates. If you have to pay roughly the same for either, that makes it interesting. Whatever promise Sanchez showed was a long time ago, and we haven't seen many flashes since the game Mangold was out and he got obliterated by the Ravens D. Geno's lack of PT last year may give him the edge LOL...

[flgreen]

4 hours ago, Maxman said:

Geno is absolutely a jerk. I don't think anyone really likes him. That said if the Jets aren't sold on Petty, Geno will be the backup. Not sure how you can be sold that Petty is ready to play based on last night.

I think Petty looks good in the pocket. He can move around to keep plays alive. Geno is a more mobile QB but once he moves he should just run.

The only party I am disagreeing with is if the Jets feel that Geno gives them a better chance to win this season than Petty does, then Geno needs to be on this roster. This is an old offense at the skill positions.

I have to agree with some reservations.  

Your correct, IMO Petty was given every chance to win the back up job last night.  All he had to do was look competent, score some points, and not turn the ball over.  He didn't do it.  

smith wins the #2 job by default.  Petty given the chance couldn't take it from him.  I'll be very surprised if the Jets' don't carry 4 QB's.  

I disagree with another post you made that Petty would be cut.  That would be very disheartening.  Petty showed enough that there was  a QB competition.  Kids showed some genuine promise this TC.    Still a bit stiff, but has really improved playing under center.  He's got a very good arm.  

Yep, last night he showed some warts.  IMO, he'll be on the 53.  So will smith

 

BTW, you mentioned in another thread that you had people at every practice.  I'm one of them screwball people, that actually read ALL the tweets from TC.  Lol

Got to say that Glen, and Joe, and who ever else helped did, by far, the best job of any of the scribes, of relaying a feeling of a play by play.  lol    Really good job

[win4ever]

3 hours ago, greenwave81 said:

So you cut Petty who is 'inconsistent' despite being in the 2nd year of his deal (a known developmental project) and keep Geno who has displayed nothing but inconsistency for 3+ seasons now.

OK.

Well it's what you make, lemonade out of lemons.

I argued against signing Fitzpatrick for months, saying, the upgrade from Geno to Fitz isn't worth cutting Petty.  However, once Fitz signs, the Jets have to readjust.  At this point, Petty hasn't proven anything besides a big arm.  He made some good throws in the Washington game, but also some bad throws as well.  

By signing Fitz for this season, the Jets signaled that they are trying to be a win now team, so you keep the guy who has experience behind him, and not a project.  The Petty project was thin ice the moment Hackenberg got drafted.  Sure, you can keep 4 QBs, but for a team that might keep extra corners or WRs, there aren't too many roster spots freely available, and Petty most likely is going to be the one cut.  

Petty has 2 year advantage in terms of contract, but Geno is actually younger.   And it's not like Petty has lit anything up.  His 56% completion percentage playing against second stringers or the 2TD, 1 INT with 2 fumbles in the preseason set him apart?  For a win now team, I'm picking the guy that I think can step in behind the starter if need be.  If Petty set the world on fire like say Dak Prescot, then yeah sure.  But he didn't.  

In a perfect world, I would keep him, but signing Fitzpatrick robs the Jets of keeping all the young QBs on the roster.  One has to go, and as of now, Petty is the least valuable to the Jets.  

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, Maxman said:

The Jets will end this debate soon.

You know as well as I that their decision will most certainly not end the debate.

Quote

And when they do, I will be proven right because Geno Smith will be the backup QB.

He very well might.  The odds certainly favor him heavily.

A fourth year 2nd round player, with 32 or so NFL starts vs. a 2nd year 4th round developmental guy who has never played a single down yet in a game that counted.

It should say something that there is even a debate over who "won" the job.  

Pssst, Geno won't have won it if he gets it.  But then again, he should be used to that by now, amIright?

[Maxman]

59 minutes ago, flgreen said:

I have to agree with some reservations.  

Your correct, IMO Petty was given every chance to win the back up job last night.  All he had to do was look competent, score some points, and not turn the ball over.  He didn't do it.  

smith wins the #2 job by default.  Petty given the chance couldn't take it from him.  I'll be very surprised if the Jets' don't carry 4 QB's.  

I disagree with another post you made that Petty would be cut.  That would be very disheartening.  Petty showed enough that there was  a QB competition.  Kids showed some genuine promise this TC.    Still a bit stiff, but has really improved playing under center.  He's got a very good arm.  

Yep, last night he showed some warts.  IMO, he'll be on the 53.  So will smith

 

BTW, you mentioned in another thread that you had people at every practice.  I'm one of them screwball people, that actually read ALL the tweets from TC.  Lol

Got to say that Glen, and Joe, and who ever else helped did, by far, the best job of any of the scribes, of relaying a feeling of a play by play.  lol    Really good job

Really good post.

The Petty being cut post might have been, I don't know, it could have been a post of an inflammatory nature with the intent being to provoke a reaction that .... well maybe it was a post count thing.

I don't want Petty to be cut. I would really be happy if he was the backup. But I think Geno is better right now. I think the coaches think that as well.

More importantly...training camp. Thank you!

Glenn did most of it. Joe Blewett was out there several times as well. And KRL nailed the opening weekend. My son Shane was also out there. 

I hope to make it to training camp next year. Just need life to slow down a bit.

 

 

 

[Maxman]

45 minutes ago, Warfish said:

You know as well as I that their decision will most certainly not end the debate.

He very well might.  The odds certainly favor him heavily.

A fourth year 2nd round player, with 32 or so NFL starts vs. a 2nd year 4th round developmental guy who has never played a single down yet in a game that counted.

It should say something that there is even a debate over who "won" the job.  

Pssst, Geno won't have won it if he gets it.  But then again, he should be used to that by now, amIright?

If Geno is on the time and Petty is not on the team (not saying that will actually happen) but that will mean that this debate is over.

So much so that I will configure a script that only allows positive things to be said about Geno. And Lav Coles. We can't have a site saying bad things about these players. Oh wait....nevermind. Everyone post away.

[Maxman]

47 minutes ago, win4ever said:

Well it's what you make, lemonade out of lemons.

I argued against signing Fitzpatrick for months, saying, the upgrade from Geno to Fitz isn't worth cutting Petty.  However, once Fitz signs, the Jets have to readjust.  At this point, Petty hasn't proven anything besides a big arm.  He made some good throws in the Washington game, but also some bad throws as well.  

By signing Fitz for this season, the Jets signaled that they are trying to be a win now team, so you keep the guy who has experience behind him, and not a project.  The Petty project was thin ice the moment Hackenberg got drafted.  Sure, you can keep 4 QBs, but for a team that might keep extra corners or WRs, there aren't too many roster spots freely available, and Petty most likely is going to be the one cut.  

Petty has 2 year advantage in terms of contract, but Geno is actually younger.   And it's not like Petty has lit anything up.  His 56% completion percentage playing against second stringers or the 2TD, 1 INT with 2 fumbles in the preseason set him apart?  For a win now team, I'm picking the guy that I think can step in behind the starter if need be.  If Petty set the world on fire like say Dak Prescot, then yeah sure.  But he didn't.  

In a perfect world, I would keep him, but signing Fitzpatrick robs the Jets of keeping all the young QBs on the roster.  One has to go, and as of now, Petty is the least valuable to the Jets.  

This is well said. I mentioned something similar earlier. But I like the way you worded it better. Let's blame FITZ.  Just kidding. But it does change things bringing Fitz back. I made the case in the offseason to let Fitz walk if he only wanted a multi year big money deal. And let everyone else hammer it out. Fitz is here on a one year deal and that definitely changes the landscape.

[nycdan]

2 minutes ago, Maxman said:

If Geno is on the time and Petty is not on the team (not saying that will actually happen) but that will mean that this debate is over.

So much so that I will configure a script that only allows positive things to be said about Geno. And Lav Coles. We can't have a site saying bad things about these players. Oh wait....nevermind. Everyone post away.

Your servers do not have the processing power to filter out all the negative posts about Geno.  I'm not sure the NSA has that kind of processing power.

[Maxman]

1 minute ago, nycdan said:

Your servers do not have the processing power to filter out all the negative posts about Geno.  I'm not sure the NSA has that kind of processing power.

I was so tempted to just edit your post to say something positive about Geno the second after you posted it. hahaha.

[nycdan]

1 minute ago, Maxman said:

I was so tempted to just edit your post to say something positive about Geno the second after you posted it. hahaha.

They say absolute power corrupts absolutely.  Et tu, Max?

[Jetsplayer21]

12 hours ago, Augustiniak said:

i can see trading geno for a conditional pick.  these guys are committed to developing qbs.  they're not getting rid of petty when he's clearly making progress.  and he looks way better than someone like nassib who's had years in the same system.

I think Mac and Bowles actually believe we can compete this yr.. Rightfully so.. What fan wants a coach and gm who gives up before the season even starts.. That is why geno stays.. He is shaky as Fitzpatrick.. Fitz is slightly better, and petty has yet to prove he is nfl ready.. So if fitz sh*ts the bed as usual they need to try geno.. Maybe he isn't any better but they can't give up.. I remember after the fitz signing last year no one believed he could even be a decent #2.. Only idiots try to predict how these average qbs will do..

[Jetsplayer21]

4 hours ago, isired said:

Is it really a foregone conclusion that Petty doesn't make it to the practice squad? He's eligible, right? Just has to clear waivers? I feel like we've been watching him make a reasonably strong case that he's not ready to be on anyone's 53 right now.

Besides that... any Jets fan that didn't want to see Petty beat out Geno is an idiot... same as Geno beating out Sanchez 3 yrs ago... unless you have Brady/Rodgers/etc. under Center, you want your draft pick to beat your QB out soundly, Russell Wilson style, every year. But Petty was no Dak Prescott last year, or this. So the smart money is that the Jets go with experience, even though that experience is far from great, so either keep 4 QB or cut Petty... OR.... if they get an offer for Geno that is at all unreasonable in our favor, say the Cowboys want to give us Lynch for Geno and a conditional 6/7, maybe they roll the dice. Suring up the right side of our OL could be seen as making up whatever perceived difference there might be between Petty and Geno.

Is there really any team who would pick up petty ? maybe we could trade him for a 7th rounder if we are lucky ? Lol 

[Warfish]

7 hours ago, Maxman said:

If Geno is on the time and Petty is not on the team (not saying that will actually happen) but that will mean that this debate is over.

Begging your pardon, m'lord, and not to pick nits, but lol, no.

It will mean Geno is on the team and Petty is not.  That alone will not end the debate over if the decision was correct, what Petty "could have been", how bad Geno is, etc.

What is dead may never die, like Jets Fan debate over Jets never-was QB's.

7 hours ago, Maxman said:

So much so that I will configure a script that only allows positive things to be said about Geno.

7 hours ago, Maxman said:

And Lav Coles.

Laverne and Shirley Cole Slaw?

7 hours ago, Maxman said:

We can't have a site saying bad things about these players. Oh wait....nevermind. Everyone post away.

Whew....

[isired]

Is there really any team who would pick up petty ? maybe we could trade him for a 7th rounder if we are lucky ? Lol 

Yeah that's my point. How much of a risk is it to cut him and try to resign him to the PDF? He has to realize he's got a better chance here than anywhere else. Our staff has been working to develop him, and our QB situation is far from predictable for 2017.

[SoFlaJets]

On 8/28/2016 at 1:16 AM, Maxman said:

Back to the eye test. Petty definitely didn't pass any eye test tonight. On his pick 6 he got happy feet, throw off his back foot and it was a terrible decision \ pass. He had a 28 rating tonight. 

Bowles pulling the QBs out when he did was telling.

1. Fitz got pulled out on a high note.

2. Geno got put in on the 2 yard line, a tough spot to start a drive and didn't stay in long.

3. Petty came in earlier than many expected and got pulled out after a negative. If they wanted to rebuild his confidence it didn't show.

Petty is getting cut or traded.

As much as I don't like the idea of Geno Smith taking over at some point, Max is right, he is the only guy on the team other than Fitzpatrick who has played, and yes played VERY well when there were real bullets flying. I know, I know and as much as I never want to see the guy ever again behind out future hall of fame center, the guy has played a few flawless games as a starter. That's something that can not be said about any other guy on the roster.

[NYs Stepchild]

So we use a 4th and a 7th round pick, then spend two years developing a guy who is really developing, and then just let him go to keep who? Bohanon? Johnson? Reiley?

[nj meadowlands]

lol what a hilarious OP

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, SoFlaJets said:

Geno Smith is the only guy on the team other than Fitzpatrick who has played, and yes played VERY well when there were real bullets flying.

[Big Blocker]

I don't know if the odds of keeping 4 QB's has gone up or stayed the same, but the more that looms as a possibility, the worse to me it looks.  Hackenberg looking decent means with some work he will be under contract this time next year, and not be cut.  Fitz is an FA again next off season - who knows how that is going to go.  Meanwhile Petty has shown improvement and like he belongs out there.  He has upside. 

Smith on the other hand has shown no improvement from past years at all.  Does the FO and CS really think he can win games if needed this season?  More htan Petty?  Based on what?  The only reason to keep him is if you think he's got a clear advantage over Petty in that department.  Since I don't think there's any significantly greater likelihood of him doing that, then it is Smith who should be cut.

Personally whether you agree or not that they should, I think it obvious the fans would explode if Petty was cut and another team picked him up.

[Kevin L]

3 hours ago, NYs Stepchild said:

So we use a 4th and a 7th round pick, then spend two years developing a guy who is really developing, and then just let him go to keep who? Bohanon? Johnson? Reiley?

It could come down to Petty or 1 of the young WR's. Personally, I feel Petty's ceiling is that of a mid-tier backup, while the WR's could be starters. If I'm the GM, I don't keep a backup over a starter.

[hawk]

18 hours ago, Maxman said:

Ok. We will find out soon enough. I don't see how a young QB who didn't play in a pro style offense in college unseated the guy ahead of him while having a 28 QB Rating last night. But I will watch the Jets rosters moves because I am sure Bowles and Mac feel the same way.

I don't drink and I bought my PSL seats so they are in the middle of the row. So I don't go to the bathroom during the games. Just wanted to clear that one up while we wait for the Geno trade, lol.

Didn't Geno play in a similar offense, and have 23 QB rating last week.  

I agree keep a guy who has proven he cant progress and no one in the locker room likes over a guy who is showing progression and people seem to like.

[Maxman]

2 minutes ago, hawk said:

Didn't Geno play in a similar offense, and have 23 QB rating last week.  

I agree keep a guy who has proven he cant progress and no one in the locker room likes over a guy who is showing progression and people seem to like.

People liking you isn't something that is in the stat column. Brandon Marshall was raving about Geno when he first got here. If Geno had to start for any reason and he played well everyone would like him just fine. If Petty had to start and he sucked, people would not like him. Same goes through for both guys if the opposite were true.

Players like making money. And winning. In that order more times than not.

[hawk]

3 minutes ago, Maxman said:

People liking you isn't something that is in the stat column. Brandon Marshall was raving about Geno when he first got here. If Geno had to start for any reason and he played well everyone would like him just fine. If Petty had to start and he sucked, people would not like him. Same goes through for both guys if the opposite were true.

Players like making money. And winning. In that order more times than 

I guess the progression part that you ignored makes that "If" the reason why people want him gone, and unrealistic to think he will play well.

[JiFtheOracle]

21 hours ago, win4ever said:

They all looked horrible honestly.  

Fitz looked lost without Marshall, because teams could focus on Decker.  Having two studs at WR makes it near impossible for defenses to account for both.   

Geno, I can't even say anything because his drives were weird.  He had that good throw to Anderson, but Marshall drop killed one drive.  And then another stalled because the RB got stuffed on 3rd and short, for three straight running plays.

Petty didn't look good at all, and that was a horrible decision on the INT.  He was throwing it away, and instead of making sure it was out of reach, he got lazy.  

Hackenberg looked up and down.  Having the clock run out is inexcusable, and the pass to Peake is behind him, but the WR makes a nice adjustment.  He made two great throws to Anderson, especially that TD throw.  The INT was absolutely horrible, because he's staring down the WR, and doesn't see the LB in the middle.  It took a crazy bounce, but that should have been intercepted outright, the throw was right to the LB.  

Obviously, Fitz is going to start. 

Hackenberg is safe because of his draft position.

I think Petty gets cut as well, because he has a good arm, but is inconsistent.  

I was actually going to agree with all this but the bold isnt accurate.  He was actually starting left, coming back right and it was a DT who slipped back into coverage that fooled him.  Very common mistake for a rookie.  You dont see college teams do that very often.  Hack was doing a great job of not starting down receivers.  He was working through his progressions like a pro.  He just got caught by a play that catches damn near every young QB once or twice.  

Otherwise, you're spot on.  The most concerning position after preseason game 3, is the QB position.

Fitz has 2 weeks to figure out how to find chemistry with someone other than Brandon Marshall.  And unfortunately the schedule isnt exactly going to help him find it in game during the season.

 

[drdetroit]

Petty and Hackenberg have so far played against guys who will be serving me fries at drive thru in 2 weeks. Relax.

[drdetroit]

14 minutes ago, JiF said:

I was actually going to agree with all this but the bold isnt accurate.  He was actually starting left, coming back right and it was a DT who slipped back into coverage that fooled him.  Very common mistake for a rookie.  You dont see college teams do that very often.  Hack was doing a great job of not starting down receivers.  He was working through his progressions like a pro.  He just got caught by a play that catches damn near every young QB once or twice.  

Otherwise, you're spot on.  The most concerning position after preseason game 3, is the QB position.

Fitz has 2 weeks to figure out how to find chemistry with someone other than Brandon Marshall.  And unfortunately the schedule isnt exactly going to help him find it in game during the season.

 

Fitz's chemistry with Decker on the td pass the other night looked ok