What we SHOULD have done

[Bugg]

2 minutes ago, bitonti said:

move on to what? It's week 6 if they bottom out on Hackenberg, who starts the next 10 games? 

 

i've talked endless sh*t about Hackenberg but honestly he needs to sit for at least a year, maybe two, before he can get back out there. Penn State David Carr'ed him. 

Have a real problem with this. Most of Hackenberg's problem has always been Hackenberg. May be PSU screwed him over a bit with coaches and scheme, but at some point you're  a big boy running around a Big 10 campus as the starting QB; his end of the story makes it sound like they made him work in a coal mine with a chain around his ankle.  And it simply should not have been nearly that bad . He made his own mess. If he couldn't even do that without whining, simply don't understand the pick at all. What kind of guy is this that he still cannot get over some not very rough seas? HATE using this example: by most accounts Lloyd Carr did not give Tom Brady keys to the city and yet he still managed to figure it out in the NFl. 

[UnitedWhofans]

3 minutes ago, August said:

I agree and ultimately the right move was bringing him back despite how bad that move looks now. The problem now has been sticking with him no matter what. 

And honestly, the move has minimum effect. He's gone after next year with a small dead cap charge. What harm did it cause?

[bitonti]

5 minutes ago, August said:

Oh I remember that very well. I said back then that Hoyer and Fitzpatrick were in the same boat (good backup QB's that can be solid hold the fort starters) it's not hindsight for me I suggested we bring him in back in the offseason. If I were in charge I don't give a damn about what the media and fans think. I wouldn't allow Ryan Fitzpatrick to hold my team hostage, I make him an offer and he either takes it or leaves it and I move on very quickly. I sign Hoyer and he competes with Geno and Petty and the best man wins. 

 

The Bears are also 1-5.

Hoyer has played in four games

1) home vs Eagles (loss) 

2)  at Dallas (loss) 

3) home vs Lions (win) 

4) at Indy (loss) 

He has better percentages than Fitz but the W-L records are the same and by the way Fitz was vs CIN, @ BUF, @KC, vs SEA and @PIT. Fitz' schedule was much tougher than Hoyer's. 

[Embrace the Suck]

13 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Mark Sanchez would like a word with you

Again there are no guarantees. What did we trade to Cleveland swap firsts and some spare parts a mid pick or two? Also, I wouldn't have drafted Mark. His film from college showed a guy on a team with superior talent playing lesser competition with wide open wrs almost every throw. Drafting isn't Saturday night at the bar where you take things at face value cause there's no long term commitment, but you have to take chances at greatness.

[bitonti]

4 minutes ago, Snell41 said:

Petty will be healthy to finish out the season.  I'm not concerned with bottoming out Hack.  His quotient is so low for success, even long term.  Burn his ass out.  Again, if he's so mentally fragile that he can't go into a game now, it ain't happening 3 years from now.  When did football become a sport of such pussies?  Get out there and play.  And if you can't, see you later. 

 

 

sure but it's not like a mystery. Hack couldn't execute against the future produce washers and UPS drivers of America during preseason game 4, an actual NFL defense would eat him alive. It's not even like a question. 

 

and side note we don't know when Petty will be healthy again. We have no idea what the injury even was or how bad it was. 

[Snell41]

1 minute ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Here's what we do.

We play Petty when we are out of it. Geno and Fitz leave. We have a high draft pick.

People thinking Maccagnan won't draft another QB are stupid. 

1. That's the Ron Wolf method to play the game.

2. He's already been to a Notre Dame game and a Clemson game. He wasn't going there to look at the running backs. He was there to look at Watson and Kizer.

I will bet the shirt off my back that he drafts a QB in the upcoming draft. 

In which case Hack is rendered to a useless pick as he sits on the bench for the remainder of his Jets tenure.  So why not throw him out now?  Here's the deal-I understand fully the odds of him producing anything worthwhile this season is roughly 2-5%.  I also understand the odds of him being worthwhile 3 years from now is roughly 10-20%.  80% chance at worst he never makes it to being a franchise level QB.  I would sooner give up on the borderline 8-10% increase in odds and throw the dice now, because the house is burning now. 

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, bitonti said:

The Bears are also 1-5.

Hoyer has played in four games

1) home vs Eagles (loss) 

2)  at Dallas (loss) 

3) home vs Lions (win) 

4) at Indy (loss) 

He has better percentages than Fitz but the W-L records are the same and by the way Fitz was vs CIN, @ BUF, @KC, vs SEA and @PIT. Fitz' schedule was much tougher than Hoyer's. 

Which brings me to a point that Francesa made today. He said that, despite the bad play, he thought they would be 1-4 anyway. Because of the schedule

So we have to ask ourselves, just like last year was a product of the schedule, is this year the same but in reverse?

[Augustiniak]

4 minutes ago, Bugg said:

Have a real problem with this. Most of Hackenberg's problem has always been Hackenberg. May be PSU screwed him over a bit with coaches and scheme, but at some point you're  a big boy running around a Big 10 campus as the starting QB; his end of the story makes it sound like they made him work in a coal mine with a chain around his ankle.  And it simply should not have been nearly that bad . He made his own mess. If he couldn't even do that without whining, simply don't understand the pick at all. What kind of guy is this that he still cannot get over some not very rough seas? HATE using this example: by most accounts Lloyd Carr did not give Tom Brady keys to the city and yet he still managed to figure it out in the NFl. 

he was sacked more than any other college qb the past 2 seasons.  he didn't whine.  he didn't make his own mess, it was all around him.

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, Snell41 said:

In which case Hack is rendered to a useless pick as he sits on the bench for the remainder of his Jets tenure.  So why not throw him out now?  Here's the deal-I understand fully the odds of him producing anything worthwhile this season is roughly 2-5%.  I also understand the odds of him being worthwhile 3 years from now is roughly 10-20%.  80% chance at worst he never makes it to being a franchise level QB.  I would sooner give up on the borderline 8-10% increase in odds and throw the dice now, because the house is burning now. 

Absolutely not. He becomes a trade chip. And you know he will be. Patriots traded Ryan Mallet, for gods sakes. 

[bitonti]

Just now, UnitedWhofans said:

Which brings me to a point that Francesa made today. He said that, despite the bad play, he thought they would be 1-4 anyway. Because of the schedule

So we have to ask ourselves, just like last year was a product of the schedule, is this year the same but in reverse?

 

it's a fair point and there's still 10 games left. I said it in another thread by the way the Jets are still 1-0 in the division if they can beat those divisional teams who knows? 

[Snell41]

1 minute ago, bitonti said:

sure but it's not like a mystery. Hack couldn't execute against the future produce washers and UPS drivers of America during preseason game 4, an actual NFL defense would eat him alive. It's not even like a question. 

And sometimes things that every single pundit and analyst thinks won't happen happens.  Prescott is playing solid football.  Who called that one?  Wentz looks darn near like a stud.  Who called that early on?  Everyone thinks Hack sucks.  So there's the expectation level.  He might exceed it.  Probably not, I get it, but what's the friggin harm?  We damage his long term psyche?  Apparently PSU already did according to most, and frankly do we want such a weak minded individual being on our franchise?  Eff that tough it out.  Get out there and play.  If you suck so what.  If sucking as a rookie destroys this kid's confidence then he didn't have the mettle to be an NFL QB in the first place glad we'd at least solve that early on instead of finding out 3 years later when we open him up expecting a brand new Ferrarri and finding out the box was full of old disassembled Yugo parts all along. 

[Snell41]

4 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Absolutely not. He becomes a trade chip. And you know he will be. Patriots traded Ryan Mallet, for gods sakes. 

A trade chip that will never net where we drafted him. 

[bitonti]

2 minutes ago, Snell41 said:

And sometimes things that every single pundit and analyst thinks won't happen happens.  Prescott is playing solid football.  Who called that one?  Wentz looks darn near like a stud.  Who called that early on?  Everyone thinks Hack sucks.  So there's the expectation level.  He might exceed it.  Probably not, I get it, but what's the friggin harm?  We damage his long term psyche?  Apparently PSU already did according to most, and frankly do we want such a weak minded individual being on our franchise?  Eff that tough it out.  Get out there and play.  If you suck so what.  If sucking as a rookie destroys this kid's confidence then he didn't have the mettle to be an NFL QB in the first place glad we'd at least solve that early on instead of finding out 3 years later when we open him up expecting a brand new Ferrarri and finding out the box was full of old disassembled Yugo parts all along. 

 

 

the only way Hack's career is salvaged is if they let him sit and learn. Maybe just recover from his college career.

Yes he's probably worthless. But let's be real starting a guy like Hackenberg on the road in Pittsburgh? He'd get murderized.  There's no way that goes well. Dak Prescott was a surprise but he showed flashes in Preseason. Guys who suck in preseason aren't going to be suddenly awesome  for no apparent reason in the regular season. 

[August]

7 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

And honestly, the move has minimum effect. He's gone after next year with a small dead cap charge. What harm did it cause?

You bring him back because he was the starting QB of a 10-6 team and he played well. So they were right to bring him back. Financially there was no big harm despite him not being worth the money. The problem again is them keeping him in despite him playing terribly. 

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, Snell41 said:

A trade chip that will never net where we drafted him. 

Not necessarily. depends on the draft (depth of ) and possible packages that pick is included in to trade up 

[Snell41]

Just now, bitonti said:

the only way Hack's career is salvaged is if they let him sit and learn.  Yes he's probably worthless. But let's be real starting a guy like Hackenberg on the road in Pittsburgh? He'd get murderized. 

Most rookie QB's get murderized.  The ones who are mentally tough come back for more knowing they can do it.  The ones that don't become the Matt Leinerts of the NFL.  it's the NFL's natural selection.  If Hack can't mentally handle playing poorly and making mistakes as a rookie then he can't handle playing QB. 

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, Snell41 said:

Most rookie QB's get murderized.  The ones who are mentally tough come back for more knowing they can do it.  The ones that don't become the Matt Leinerts of the NFL.  it's the NFL's natural selection.  If Hack can't mentally handle playing poorly and making mistakes as a rookie then he can't handle playing QB. 

Jim Plunkett and Rich Gannon would like a word with you

[Snell41]

2 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Not necessarily. depends on the draft (depth of ) and possible packages that pick is included in to trade up 

He was controversially taken with a high 2nd round pick.  IF the situation you stated pans out, we are trading him away because we've drafted our franchise and he's playing ell, thn chances are Hack never sees the field.  Nobody will give a high 2nd for him at that point. 

[Snell41]

2 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Jim Plunkett and Rich Gannon would like a word with you

Congrats on finding the 2 lol. 

[UnitedWhofans]

2 minutes ago, Snell41 said:

Congrats on finding the 2 lol. 

Oh there's more. Richard Todd's best seasons were late in his career, Len Dawson was a washout with the Steelers, and so on

[Snell41]

Just now, UnitedWhofans said:

Oh there's more. Richard Todd's best seasons were late in his career, Len Dawson was a washout with the Steelers, and so on

Ok, you can go ahead scouring for the next Richard Todd lol.  I prefer we start looking for the next John Elway, and do whatever it takes to find him. 

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, Snell41 said:

Ok, you can go ahead scouring for the next Richard Todd lol.  I prefer we start looking for the next John Elway, and do whatever it takes to find him. 

Elway didnt win his Super Bowls til late in his career.

[PatsFanTX]

What I would've done was offer Fitzpatrick a 5-7 million dollar deal. If he doesn't take it, we sign Brian Hoyer and have him compete with Geno and Petty for the starting job, and I never draft Hackenberg. 

Yesterday, Hoyer was 33/43, 75%, 397 yards, 2 TD's, 0 INT's and a 120.0 QB rating.

He's playing for $2MM this year but the Jets thought that paying Fitz $12MM was a better option.

Wow.

[UnitedWhofans]

1 minute ago, PatsFanTX said:

 

Yesterday, Hoyer was 33/43, 75%, 397 yards, 2 TD's, 0 INT's and a 120.0 QB rating.

He's playing for $2MM this year but the Jets thought that paying Fitz $12MM was a better option.

Wow.
 

 

No. Jets FANS AND MEDIA thought paying 12m was a better option. As mentioned in another thread, the fans affect the franchise. DUmb but it's true

[JustInFudge]

2 minutes ago, PatsFanTX said:

 

Yesterday, Hoyer was 33/43, 75%, 397 yards, 2 TD's, 0 INT's and a 120.0 QB rating.

He's playing for $2MM this year but the Jets thought that paying Fitz $12MM was a better option.

Wow.
 

 

The worst part is, they didnt even consider other options because of the love affair with Ryan ******* Fitzpatrick.  They let him hold them hostage all offseason, creating QB controversy and unnecessary attention for an entire offseason for Ryan ******* Fitzpatrick.  And our Head Coach, a former DC...hand picked him!!!!   This is a guy who used to lick his chops when Fitz was on the schedule when he coached D and now he's tied his career to him as a HC.

Only the Jets. 

 

[cant wait]

If Bradford plays a full (healthy) season, the jets should go hard after him, whatever picks it would take and an osweiler level contract extension. Enough messing around with this fitz and smith nonsense, get a legitimate starter in here and let the developmental guys sit on the bench until they are needed

[PatsFanTX]

The worst part is, they didnt even consider other options because of the love affair with Ryan ******* Fitzpatrick.  They let him hold them hostage all offseason, creating QB controversy and unnecessary attention for an entire offseason for Ryan ******* Fitzpatrick.  And our Head Coach, a former DC...hand picked him!!!!   This is a guy who used to lick his chops when Fitz was on the schedule when he coached D and now he's tied his career to him as a HC.
Only the Jets. 
 

Unfortunately, you are 100% correct.

I laughed my ass off when the Jets signed Fitz for $12MM one day before training camp.

[Snell41]

17 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Elway didnt win his Super Bowls til late in his career.

Having a franchise QB doesn't guarantee a SB.  Not having a franchise QB guarantees no SB.  That's the difference.  And to your prior point, nobody remembers what was given up to move up in a draft when the player pans out because it doesn't matter. 

[Obrien2Toon]

Has to be the right Qb you move up for.

we would've moved up for Goff and be in way worse shape than we are now 

[August]

27 minutes ago, PatsFanTX said:

 

Yesterday, Hoyer was 33/43, 75%, 397 yards, 2 TD's, 0 INT's and a 120.0 QB rating.

He's playing for $2MM this year but the Jets thought that paying Fitz $12MM was a better option.

Wow.
 

 

Because Fitzpatrick was supposed to be the new Rich Gannon, and Fitzpatrick was "better" than Hoyer. 

[UnitedWhofans]

15 minutes ago, Snell41 said:

Having a franchise QB doesn't guarantee a SB.  Not having a franchise QB guarantees no SB.  That's the difference.  And to your prior point, nobody remembers what was given up to move up in a draft when the player pans out because it doesn't matter. 

Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, an washed out Peyton Manning. Rex Grossman made it to a Super Bowl. REX GROSSMAN.

In the end, there are no guarantees

[PatsFanTX]

Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, an washed out Peyton Manning. Rex Grossman made it to a Super Bowl. REX GROSSMAN.
In the end, there are no guarantees

You cite 3 QB's out of 50 Super Bowl games.

What about the other 47 games?

Even a blind squirrel.......................................

Super Bowl contending teams have one thing in common.

A franchise QB.

[JustInFudge]

Just now, PatsFanTX said:

 

Unfortunately, you are 100% correct.

I laughed my ass off when the Jets signed Fitz for $12MM one day before training camp.
 

 

That's because it was a joke and jokes are funny.

The not so funny part is, if we were breaking in or trying out a youngster at QB (like I suggested :)) ...nobody would give a **** about the record because the team would finally be moving toward the future with no expectations this season.  But, instead, you went all in on this season, win now mode, with Ryan ******* Fitzpatrick and now you're a stick in the mud franchise going nowhere, with no new information about this team and literally no vision or direction as it pertains to the most important position in all of sports.  And the worst part is, this was all so ******* predictable.  

If he losses his job this season, you have to wonder how much Todd wished he would have just rolled with Geno or Petty or Hack.  You would have to imagine Mac and Woody would have given him a much longer leash.  But instead, here we are and here he is.

 

[rex-n-effect]

Just now, Obrien2Toon said:

Has to be the right Qb you move up for.

we would've moved up for Goff and be in way worse shape than we are now 

These people who think you can just trade up to pluck a franchise QB out of the draft live in complete delusion. If it were that easy we'd all be high on SB wins from Sanchez's amazing career here.

[BallinPB]

27 minutes ago, cant wait said:

If Bradford plays a full (healthy) season, the jets should go hard after him, whatever picks it would take and an osweiler level contract extension. Enough messing around with this fitz and smith nonsense, get a legitimate starter in here and let the developmental guys sit on the bench until they are needed

For Bradford to play like Bradford is playing right now it takes a complete team which the Vikings have.  They play ahead and don't fall behind their opponent.  However Bradford is definitely a better option than Fitzpatrick any day of the week.  

Thinking about it, if Bradford takes this team far, how do you go back to Bridgewater?