Reality check for those obsessed with the idea of tanking

[JetUp91]

Jets picks IN top 10 since 2000:

Leonard Williams, Dee Milliner, Mark Sanchez, Vernon Gholston, Brick, Dewayne Robertson

Jets picks OUTSIDE of top 10 since 2000:

Darron Lee, Calvin Pryor, Sheldon Richardson, Quinton Coples, Muhammad Wilkerson, Darrelle Revis, Dustin Keller, Nick Mangold, Johnathan Vilma, Bryan Thomas, Santana Moss, Shaun Ellis, John Abraham, Chad Pennington, Anthony Becht

Couple things to take note of here. Tanking to get a better pick literally guarantees nothing, especially with this franchise. We factually end up with better players outside the top 10. Also, look at Cleveland for example. That team, literally every single year, has a top pick in the draft. Every year they still suck and end up picking high in the draft. ALSO, looking around the league, Prescott and Carr are having great success, Cowboys / Raiders didn't have to tank to get those guys.

 

[Big Blocker]

3 minutes ago, JetUp91 said:

Jets picks IN top 10 since 2000:

Leonard Williams, Dee Milliner, Mark Sanchez, Vernon Gholston, Brick, Dewayne Robertson

Jets picks OUTSIDE of top 10 since 2000:

Darron Lee, Calvin Pryor, Sheldon Richardson, Quinton Coples, Muhammad Wilkerson, Darrelle Revis, Dustin Keller, Nick Mangold, Johnathan Vilma, Bryan Thomas, Santana Moss, Shaun Ellis, John Abraham, Chad Pennington, Anthony Becht

Couple things to take note of here. Tanking to get a better pick literally guarantees nothing, especially with this franchise. We factually end up with better players outside the top 10. Also, look at Cleveland for example. That team, literally every single year, has a top pick in the draft. Every year they still suck and end up picking high in the draft. ALSO, looking around the league, Prescott and Carr are having great success, Cowboys / Raiders didn't have to tank to get those guys.

 

Yeah, I said this last week about Carr.  The Jets did not have to tank to get Mariota, and instead would have been fine with Carr.  Yet they passed on him because that idiot Idzik was invested in Geno Smith.

But your point comparing actual top ten picks by the jets is telling.  Even a nice pick like Ferguson compares to how Mangold was picked below the top ten in the same draft and ended up being the better player.

[LIJetsFan]

I don't think anyone is talking about tanking per se.  The losing=winning talk only makes sense once you're eliminated from the post season.  Winning meaningless games just to pad your stats is just the wrong approach from a franchise point of view.  Yeah it might suk for the fans at the games to lose because you're playing players with upside potential rather than over the hill vets but you/they can still root for the prospects to play well at least.

All the tank talk was taking place during the 1st half of the Browns game when we truly looked god awful.  Now that we are still alive I think it will die back down for a while.     

[Beerfish]

The only time you should ever think about tanking is if a true franchise QB is sitting there, you are already a lousy team and you have about 2 games left.  Then you may think about tanking.

[JetUp91]

2 minutes ago, LIJetsFan said:

I don't think anyone is talking about tanking per se.  The losing=winning talk only makes sense once you're eliminated from the post season.  Winning meaningless games just to pad your stats is just the wrong approach from a franchise point of view.  Yeah it might suk for the fans at the games to lose because you're playing players with upside potential rather than over the hill vets but you/they can still root for the prospects to play well at least.

All the tank talk was taking place during the 1st half of the Browns game when we truly looked god awful.  Now that we are still alive I think it will die back down for a while.     

Huh? Tanking has been a popular topic since we dropped to 1-3 / 1-4. Jets fans are nuts.

[LIJetsFan]

Tanking talk before you're eliminated is just troll talk.  There are a lot of so called fans here on this site that are trolls in sheep's clothing.

[BigRy56]

Look at the Browns. They pick at the top of the draft every other year - it has worked out really well for them.

Sometimes you get lucky and there's a can't miss prospect like Andrew Luck but most times picking at the top of the draft is just as much of a crapshoot as picking anywhere else.

[JiFtheOracle]

This team is going 10-6.

[Tinstar]

12 minutes ago, JiF said:

This team is going 10-6.

I got us at 9-7 and missing the playoffs again. The only thing is it's only if Fitz remains the starter all season .

[Integrity28]

1 minute ago, Tinstar said:

I got us at 9-7 and missing the playoffs again. The only thing is it's only if Fitz remains the starter all season .

I think we can do just as well with Petty, but the dude is obviously not healthy. What a monumental **** up to not put him on IR designated for return.

[peebag]

24 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

The only time you should ever think about tanking is if a true franchise QB is sitting there, you are already a lousy team and you have about 2 games left.  Then you may think about tanking.

Except if you're Rex Ryan....

[Larz]

Yay 7-9 so awesome

[peebag]

1 minute ago, Larz said:

Yay 7-9 so awesome

GO TEAM!

[Tinstar]

13 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

I think we can do just as well with Petty, but the dude is obviously not healthy. What a monumental **** up to not put him on IR designated for return.

According to who ? What were the Jets planning to do yesterday if Fitz was declared concussed ?  Some of you need to simply stop second guessing every move people with more information than you make .

[JetUp91]

7 minutes ago, Larz said:

Yay 7-9 so awesome

Factually no different than going 0-16 in the last 16 years with this team.

[Integrity28]

7 minutes ago, Tinstar said:

According to who ? What were the Jets planning to do yesterday if Fitz was declared concussed ?  Some of you need to simply stop second guessing every move people with more information than you make .

I'm not second-guessing anything. The reports, and statements from Bowles, have been that he's not fully healthy yet. So, I'm echoing what's been reported. He's healthy enough to backup, but not fully healthy. 

[varjet]

I think we are fooling ourselves to think that these "Draft Experts" don't influence the draft.  They do.

And the Draft Experts put players with superior athletic measureables at the top of their draft list.   Often times those are the players who turn out to be NFL stars.  But not all the time.  At least half the time, the star NFL players are the players who work harder, are smart, who play with passion.  That is often overlooked when you pick the Verson Gholston's of the world.  That is how the Jets feel into the Ghost trap.

When the Jets were up to pick Gholston, the 5 other athletic freaks were already picked.  So the Jets would have had to pick a player ranked much lower in Mel's Board.  Obviously, in hindsight, they could have picked Clady, McKelvin, Mayo, Flacco, Talib.  Terry Bradway was just so bad.

So I agree that the Jets are better of playing to win, developing the team, etc so long as they are in the playoff hunt.  But once they hit 7 losses (or no later than 8), any other victories are for naught, and why we don't have Mariota or Ryan.

[Ex-Rex]

36 minutes ago, Tinstar said:

I got us at 9-7 and missing the playoffs again. The only thing is it's only if Fitz remains the starter all season .

I agree. 9-7 is definitely possible. Just have to beat Miami, LA, SF, Indy and Buffalo again, or Miami. Not going to get close to NE with this secondary. Gronk alone will score five TD's being covered by Calvin Pryor. The Jets have missed on more franchise QB's than any team in the league except Cleveland. How can you not pick Derek Carr over Geno Smith? Just because David Carr was a bust - he had an expansion team draft him - doesn't mean anything. He was talented as is Derek. Jets just don't recognize QB talent. I am curious about Hackenberg too, being taken ahead of Prescott.

[Il Mostro]

23 minutes ago, Larz said:

Yay 7-9 so awesome

You don't like climbing to near-mediocrity in garbage time?

[JetUp91]

1 minute ago, Ex-Rex said:

I agree. 9-7 is definitely possible. Just have to beat Miami, LA, SF, Indy and Buffalo again, or Miami. Not going to get close to NE with this secondary. Gronk alone will score five TD's being covered by Calvin Pryor. The Jets have missed on more franchise QB's than any team in the league except Cleveland. How can you not pick Derek Carr over Geno Smith? Just because David Carr was a bust - he had an expansion team draft him - doesn't mean anything. He was talented as is Derek. Jets just don't recognize QB talent. I am curious about Hackenberg too, being taken ahead of Prescott.

The "on paper" stuff can be thrown away when we suit up to play the Patriots. 2014, we were awful in every aspect of football and we played them tough both games.

[Ex-Rex]

7 minutes ago, varjet said:

When the Jets were up to pick Gholston, the 5 other athletic freaks were already picked.  So the Jets would have had to pick a player ranked much lower in Mel's Board.  Obviously, in hindsight, they could have picked Clady, McKelvin, Mayo, Flacco, Talib.  Terry Bradway was just so bad.

Obviously Flacco was the guy the Jets needed to select. We let Chad Pennington go and had Favre on a one year contract, so it would have been a perfect scenario to select a developmental QB. Bradway wasn't that bad as GM, but the Jets organization always looks past the obvious.

[JetUp91]

2 minutes ago, Il Mostro said:

You don't like rising to near-mediocrity in garbage time?

Nobody is in love with 7-9, so your trollish posts contribute nothing. Topic at hand is tanking is pointless, and it is.

[JetUp91]

1 minute ago, Ex-Rex said:

Obviously Flacco was the guy the Jets needed to select. We let Chad Pennington go and had Favre on a one year contract, so it would have been a perfect scenario to select a developmental QB. Bradway wasn't that bad as GM, but the Jets organization always looks past the obvious.

Flacco has been painfully mediocre to bad for most of his career. That super bowl run they went on was entirely fueled by the whole Ray Lewis story. Outside of that, he's been pretty bad. It's like Eli Manning.. dude has a couple Super Bowls, but looking at the entire sample size he's been pretty bad for the majority of his career.

[Il Mostro]

2 minutes ago, JetUp91 said:

Nobody is in love with 7-9, so your trollish posts contribute nothing. Topic at hand is tanking is pointless, and it is.

Look Skippy, I know you think you put a lot of thought into creating your advanced theory on draft position, and in your case I am sure it was a Herculean effort, but that is what is meaningless.  Anyone in their right mind would rather take their chances with a higher pick in the upcoming draft since the season has already been flushed down the toilet.  What is your point, other than the one on top of your head?

[JetUp91]

8 minutes ago, Il Mostro said:

Look Skippy, I know you think you put a lot of thought into creating your advanced theory on draft position, and in your case I am sure it was a Herculean effort, but that is what is meaningless.  Anyone in their right mind would rather take their chances with a higher pick in the upcoming draft since the season has already been flushed down the toilet.  What is your point, other than the one on top of your head?

My point is I'd rather not see this team lose a ton of games and divide the locker room, for a higher draft pick. Especially when there's not a clear cut, must have player there. And there's not. What you don't understand is how important a strong locker room is to a football team. Losing leads to frustration. Frustration leads to guys blaming each other and generally not wanting to contribute further effort. Maintaining that is more important to me than tanking the season.

But you say "anyone in their right mind would rather take their chances with a higher pick." Yeah? How has that worked out for us the last 15 years? How has that worked out for the Browns since, I don't know, FOREVER? Facts cannot be ignored.

[kevinc855]

God I hate the whiny tanking crowd with a passion. Thanks for posting.

[Tinstar]

46 minutes ago, Ex-Rex said:

I agree. 9-7 is definitely possible. Just have to beat Miami, LA, SF, Indy and Buffalo again, or Miami. Not going to get close to NE with this secondary. Gronk alone will score five TD's being covered by Calvin Pryor. The Jets have missed on more franchise QB's than any team in the league except Cleveland. How can you not pick Derek Carr over Geno Smith? Just because David Carr was a bust - he had an expansion team draft him - doesn't mean anything. He was talented as is Derek. Jets just don't recognize QB talent. I am curious about Hackenberg too, being taken ahead of Prescott.

No Need to be . If the Jets coaches handle this right, and thus far they have, and the owner and front office don't fold to the pressure of the media and the fans, Hackenberg will wins us as many SBs if not more than Eli has won for the Giants .

That Kid Hackenberg has a way of making the throw when the teams needs it the most and he has a knack for getting his team wins  in situations that keep the team on the winning side of the ledger .  

[Villain The Foe]

1 hour ago, JiF said:

This team is going 10-6.

Lol wouldn't be surprised. and then pick 20th again.

[JetUp91]

I'm just super happy this team isn't run by Jets fans. If it were up to Jets fans, after one loss we'd tank and clean house every single year. Basically we'd be the Browns, who pretty much do that every year and haven't seen a shred of success pretty much ever.

[Ex-Rex]

1 hour ago, JetUp91 said:

Flacco has been painfully mediocre to bad for most of his career. That super bowl run they went on was entirely fueled by the whole Ray Lewis story. Outside of that, he's been pretty bad. It's like Eli Manning.. dude has a couple Super Bowls, but looking at the entire sample size he's been pretty bad for the majority of his career.

So tell me, who have the Jets had that is better. Joe Flacco would have been the best QB the Jets had in ages.

[JetUp91]

Just now, Ex-Rex said:

So tell me, who have the Jets had that is better. Joe Flacco would have been the best QB the Jets had in ages.

That only speaks to the trash we've started at QB in ages.

[Larz]

6 hours ago, JetUp91 said:

Factually no different than going 0-16 in the last 16 years with this team.

we picked first 16 years in a row?  I missed that

[Powpow]

5 hours ago, JetUp91 said:

I'm just super happy this team isn't run by Jets fans. If it were up to Jets fans, after one loss we'd tank and clean house every single year. Basically we'd be the Browns, who pretty much do that every year and haven't seen a shred of success pretty much ever.

Actually Browns seem to be getting worse  ? Is that even possible. 

[Larz]

I know the GM and coaches and players can't try to lose.  I get that and I support that

as a fan, I can hope we get rewarded for another turd season with something other than the 2nd best CB at #15

is that so bad?

[JetFreak89]

Best case scenario: We are winning and we make the playoffs. 

2nd best case scenario: We are out of the running early, turn to Petty and start winning again (with him contributing to the wins). 

3rd best case scenario: We lose with Fitzpatrick, turn to Petty, Petty sucks, we lose all our games but earn high draft pick. 

Worst case scenario: We are winning just enough to keep hope alive while playing Fitzpatrick, don't make the playoffs, don't find out about Petty and drop in the draft.