Another Idzik is coming

[T0mShane]

23 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

In all of this the Fitz deal matters the least because it was one year and the long term we're totally screwed here wouldnt have been any different if any of the other QB's started. The team sucks and all 4 of the QB's suck.

I cannot express how devastating it was to this regime's future that they spent six months chasing after Ryan Fitzpatrick and guaranteeing him the job upon signing. 

[Matt39]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

I cannot express how devastating it was to this regime's future that they spent six months chasing after Ryan Fitzpatrick and guaranteeing him the job upon signing. 

As opposed to Geno/Petty this year? I dont see how it's any different tbh. Maccagnan's mistakes from year 1 are now surfacing.

[T0mShane]

1 minute ago, Matt39 said:

As opposed to Geno/Petty this year? I dont see how it's any different tbh. Maccagnan's mistakes from year 1 are now surfacing.

Fitzpatrick fed the idea that this was a competitive team while at the same time humiliating any other QB on the roster. I don't know how good Petty, Hack, or Geno may have been, but it's hard to imagine any young QB prospering with the crap this franchise puts them through. I like to imagine what life would be like if we drafted Derek Carr, but I also know we'd be hearing how much he sucks today while Fitzpatrick was getting run out there every week. 

[JiFtheOracle]

5 hours ago, gEYno said:

I was hoping for another thread about how the only thing that matters right now is effort...

I figured it was going to be about how its the fans fault the GM sucks. 

[JiFtheOracle]

59 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Fitzpatrick fed the idea that this was a competitive team while at the same time humiliating any other QB on the roster. I don't know how good Petty, Hack, or Geno may have been, but it's hard to imagine any young QB prospering with the crap this franchise puts them through. I like to imagine what life would be like if we drafted Derek Carr, but I also know we'd be hearing how much he sucks today while Fitzpatrick was getting run out there every week. 

It amazes me what these guys get paid to make these decisions.  This entire scenario was so predictably inevitable a bunch of morons on a message board played it out all the way down the inevitable dosey doe they're going to have with Fitz again this offseason because he gives the Jets the best chance to win.

 

[Sperm Edwards]

1 hour ago, Matt39 said:

In all of this the Fitz deal matters the least because it was one year and the long term we're totally screwed here wouldnt have been any different if any of the other QB's started. The team sucks and all 4 of the QB's suck.

Very little exists in a vacuum. One doesn't know what else would have been done if he wasn't banking on bringing him back (and bringing him back at an amount that would push us 8 figures over the '16 cap). Based on events that unfolded all offseason, I think he viewed the signing as inevitable and planned around it accordingly. 

[RutgersJetFan]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

Fitzpatrick fed the idea that this was a competitive team while at the same time humiliating any other QB on the roster. I don't know how good Petty, Hack, or Geno may have been, but it's hard to imagine any young QB prospering with the crap this franchise puts them through. I like to imagine what life would be like if we drafted Derek Carr, but I also know we'd be hearing how much he sucks today while Fitzpatrick was getting run out there every week. 

This is what I keep trying to tell all of you fools. Just accept the fact that anyone we draft or sign is going to suck. It's the Jets. Embrace it and just live your lives.

[jack48]

2 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

One can court anyone one wants. Ultimately he's the GM and he guaranteed Revis some $40M. I am sympathetic to Woody Johnson sucking, but if his new GM delineated the reasons that it would be a poorly thought out acquisition there's no evidence that Woody said (or would have said) "I don't care how much he is or how bad of a contract it is, I want Revis back on the Jets."

Mo and Fitz are also purely on Maccagnan:

Maccagnan tried plenty to trade Mo for two offseasons. Despite the failure of his efforts, if Woody wanted him re-signed then Mo wouldn't have been on the trading block in the first place. Further, he'd surely have been locked up when the Jets were flush with cap space when Maccagnan took over.

Fitz's acquisition is also on Maccagnan for two reasons. One, because he's the one who set the market with the initial 3 yr offer with some $15M guaranteed. Next, he's doubly responsible because he didn't bring in anyone else to challenge Geno Smith for the #2 job, let alone challenge the anointed Fitzpatrick for the #1 job.

I don't know how much he's learning on the job, other than that's a term I myself throw around. Truth is there's no evidence he's learning anything, just like there's no evidence Woody is telling him what to do with regards to any individual player. 

Now with Forte and McLendon, it is unlikely either (let alone both) could have been signed in June. Forte was about to meet with New England when Maccagnan panicked into a contract offer. McLendon would have found work elsewhere. If not, he wouldn't have commanded even the $3M the Jets ponied up in March. Guys available after the deadline are typically players no one wants.

Well, you would not have any evidence that Woody did this or that.  That is why it is so much fun to guess.  LOL.  I believe the Revis signing was ordained by God.  You are probably right about Mo.  I hated that signing.  I hated Fitz too.  So that is two strikes there  I just do not like this management structure.  What this team needs is a football guy with (almost) supreme power.  This sharing sh*t is for the birds.

[Barkus]

15 hours ago, funaz said:

No one's worse than geno

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
 

hate to break it you and all the geno haters, but a healthy geno RIGHT NOW, is better than any of the QBs on the roster at this time.

He's better than fitzgarbage

He's better than petty who honestly does not appear ready

He's better than Hack who can't even put on his uniform yet. 

[UnitedWhofans]

Who are most people taking pot shots at today. Bowles or Maccagnan?

What are people angry at? The talent or the effort?

The answer, at least from what I have heard are the effort and Bowles.

The few who are getting on Maccagnan because they are impatient and expect every draft pick to be a superstar out of college. His drafts have been good. Not great, not horrible. Good.

[Augustiniak]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

Fitzpatrick fed the idea that this was a competitive team while at the same time humiliating any other QB on the roster. I don't know how good Petty, Hack, or Geno may have been, but it's hard to imagine any young QB prospering with the crap this franchise puts them through. I like to imagine what life would be like if we drafted Derek Carr, but I also know we'd be hearing how much he sucks today while Fitzpatrick was getting run out there every week. 

Bringing back fitz was the mistake bc they pretended they would never have to truly rebuild and they were fooling themselves. It also hurt petty and hack bc they needed more reps. Finally we will have the opportunity for a real rebuild where multiple qbs actually drafted by the team will compete for the job. Right now all important positions on offense besides mangold are imports and this has to reverse. 

[UnitedWhofans]

1 minute ago, Augustiniak said:

Bringing back fitz was the mistake bc they pretended they would never have to truly rebuild and they were fooling themselves. It also hurt petty and hack bc they needed more reps. Finally we will have the opportunity for a real rebuild where multiple qbs actually drafted by the team will compete for the job. Right now all important positions on offense besides mangold are imports and this has to reverse. 

When you draft badly, that's what ends up happening.

[Augustiniak]

2 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

When you draft badly, that's what ends up happening.

And don't take offensive guys in the first round. 

[NoBowles]

32 minutes ago, Barkus said:

hate to break it you and all the geno haters, but a healthy geno RIGHT NOW, is better than any of the QBs on the roster at this time.

He's better than fitzgarbage

He's better than petty who honestly does not appear ready

He's better than Hack who can't even put on his uniform yet. 

That and a $1.50 will get you a small Starbucks

[joewilly12]

33 minutes ago, Barkus said:

hate to break it you and all the geno haters, but a healthy geno RIGHT NOW, is better than any of the QBs on the roster at this time.

He's better than fitzgarbage

He's better than petty who honestly does not appear ready

He's better than Hack who can't even put on his uniform yet. 

Agree 

[NoBowles]

2 hours ago, dbatesman said:

I love that anytime someone brings up Maccagnan's worst contracts, people hand-wave it away with "Woody did it." Meanwhile, when people ripped Woody for forcing Idzik to keep Rex, Bradway, and Bauer, the response from the brain trust around here was that Idzik should stop being such a pussy.

We can bash Idzik, bash Maccagnan, bash our next GM, best coaches, its all moot. The buck starts and stops with our asshat of an owner. We can rip Idzik for this or that, we can rip Maccagnan, but until Woody stops his BS and hires a real leader of football ops, be it a Pres of football ops, a powerful GM, or a powerful HC, one guy in charge, we don't know who makes the bad decisions, or why. There is zero doubt that Woody meddles, and he sets up the BS power structure so he can meddle and then blame others and remain coy. But we have no idea when he is meddling, because his employees always take the blame. It was 100% Tanny who wanted Favre and Tebow, except it was really Woody.  

Who really wanted Fitz, was it Bowles, or Mac, or both, or was it Woody?

Who told Mac to be competitive right away and sign away? Was it Mac's idea or was it Woody pushing this?

 

We waste our time arguing about Idzik, Mac, Rex, Bowles, Fitz, Geno, and on and on, but the real problem is our owner. And unfortunately, that aint changing.

[rangerous]

in defense of mac i didn't exactly see many great draft choices from any of the gms from parcells on.  look at all of the busts (1st or second round picks) since the 2000 draft.  gholston, ducasse, milliner, justin miller, stevie hill, cleamons, chaddy, nugent, amaro, kendrick ellis, wilson, hobson, jon mcgraw, and shonn greene.  that's a total of 15. imagine if half of these players panned out?  so far mac's 1st and 2nd round picks have been leo, smith, lee, and hack.  there's still a real good chance that smith and hack might pan out.

[Augustiniak]

6 minutes ago, rangerous said:

in defense of mac i didn't exactly see many great draft choices from any of the gms from parcells on.  look at all of the busts (1st or second round picks) since the 2000 draft.  gholston, ducasse, milliner, justin miller, stevie hill, cleamons, chaddy, nugent, amaro, kendrick ellis, wilson, hobson, jon mcgraw, and shonn greene.  that's a total of 15. imagine if half of these players panned out?  so far mac's 1st and 2nd round picks have been leo, smith, lee, and hack.  there's still a real good chance that smith and hack might pan out.

Exactly. Guys have flashed rather than flat out sucked. And no busts yet. 

[Sperm Edwards]

2 hours ago, jack48 said:

Well, you would not have any evidence that Woody did this or that.  That is why it is so much fun to guess.  LOL.  I believe the Revis signing was ordained by God.  You are probably right about Mo.  I hated that signing.  I hated Fitz too.  So that is two strikes there  I just do not like this management structure.  What this team needs is a football guy with (almost) supreme power.  This sharing sh*t is for the birds.

No argument from me. Except for the Revis signing being ordained by God. 

[jack48]

16 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

No argument from me. Except for the Revis signing being ordained by God. 

Well, I really meant Woody, the great and powerful Oz.  They absolutely have to cut a Parcells type deal.  Bring in a monster football guy to run the show.  What was the point of Casserly and Wolf?  They amazingly suggest he pick two newbies.  Good grief!  Did they advise Woody to arrnage an executive tree like the one he did?  We will never know, of course.  But it hardly seems likely they would do something like that.  I want to see a veteran football guy brought in and given a blank check to do it any way he wants.  What sane man would come here to work for Johnson?  That is a whole other question.

[Sperm Edwards]

4 minutes ago, jack48 said:

Well, I really meant Woody, the great and powerful Oz.  They absolutely have to cut a Parcells type deal.  Bring in a monster football guy to run the show.  What was the point of Casserly and Wolf?  They amazingly suggest he pick two newbies.  Good grief!  Did they advise Woody to arrnage an executive tree like the one he did?  We will never know, of course.  But it hardly seems likely they would do something like that.  I want to see a veteran football guy brought in and given a blank check to do it any way he wants.  What sane man would come here to work for Johnson?  That is a whole other question.

Parcells made no shortage of bonehead acquisitions & moves of his own just as a GM. It's not easy to coach a team during the season and seriously scout college players and potential pro trade partners all at the same time. 

I think the idea of one guy running the FO and coaching sounds sexy to some, but it doesn't typically work out well. So few are suited to being a good pro HC or GM alone. To expect one to be good at both simultaneously is a still-taller order.

[jack48]

48 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Parcells made no shortage of bonehead acquisitions & moves of his own just as a GM. It's not easy to coach a team during the season and seriously scout college players and potential pro trade partners all at the same time. 

I think the idea of one guy running the FO and coaching sounds sexy to some, but it doesn't typically work out well. So few are suited to being a good pro HC or GM alone. To expect one to be good at both simultaneously is a still-taller order.

Parcells was a good coach, and got a heck of a year out of retread Vinnie.  True, he was not much at buying groceries. He put together a good coaching staff.  Anyone coming in would have to bring his own personnel guy, like BB did in NE.  There is always a need for solid support staff. WE get Kacy Rodgers and brant Boyer. But a smart football guy would get the right people, not scoop up newbies and cross his fingers

[Randy Rasmussen]

This post may see like I'm piling on but I haven't been keen on Macc since I saw his mid season interview on SNY.
I got the impression that he was a smug POS, talking down to the interviewers as though he just knows things they couldn't possibly understand.
At least Idzik came across as a complete moron whereas Macc
comes across as one who thinks he knows but as Parcells said
you are what your record says you are.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[drdetroit]

Woody Johnson has the mind of a child.

 

If you want him picking the next GM and replacing Macagnan, who was picked by an actual football guy like Casserly, GOOD LUCK.

[drdetroit]

3 hours ago, jack48 said:

Parcells was a good coach, and got a heck of a year out of retread Vinnie.  True, he was not much at buying groceries. He put together a good coaching staff.  Anyone coming in would have to bring his own personnel guy, like BB did in NE.  There is always a need for solid support staff. WE get Kacy Rodgers and brant Boyer. But a smart football guy would get the right people, not scoop up newbies and cross his fingers

Parcells' draft in 2000 was the reason we were competitive the first half of the 2000's.  Parcells did tell Peyton to F off which was dumb but he was arguably our greatest GM ever.

[jack48]

10 hours ago, drdetroit said:

Woody Johnson has the mind of a child.

 

If you want him picking the next GM and replacing Macagnan, who was picked by an actual football guy like Casserly, GOOD LUCK.

They must have had an inkling that Quinn might turn them down and did not want to see the field cleared of candidates before the SB ended.  Not sure Quinn would  have been great either, but it seemed like a knee jerk decision at the time.  They should have hired mac and let him pick.  Then if he stunk we could fire both now.

[varjet]

An Idzik type is coming, likely as Mac's boss.   I think Woody may now be defeated.   He has been active in Republican politics a long time and now can collect on the ultimate political reward-the UK Ambassador.   It is every politicos dream job.  Woody will stink at it,

 I think the way to build a good organization is to have a smart person at the top who can listen to good people below who will always argue for their own self interest.   That person make accountable the GM and HC.

if you were Woody, what questions would you be asking Woody and Mac?  What bad advice has he already given?

[rangerous]

3 hours ago, jack48 said:

They must have had an inkling that Quinn might turn them down and did not want to see the field cleared of candidates before the SB ended.  Not sure Quinn would  have been great either, but it seemed like a knee jerk decision at the time.  They should have hired mac and let him pick.  Then if he stunk we could fire both now.

why on earth would dan quinn have taken the jets job?  no qb.  in atlanta he has matt ryan.

[jack48]

3 hours ago, rangerous said:

why on earth would dan quinn have taken the jets job?  no qb.  in atlanta he has matt ryan.

he was rumored to be coming here.  Woody got impatient.

[56mehl56]

On 12/5/2016 at 11:55 PM, CaliforniaJet said:

Macc drafted Hack pretty freaking high. His job lays on that pick, honestly I think he messed up, but he wont get fired until we find out. 

Ok here are some of the All pros drafted in rd 2 this year:

Emmanuel Ogbah, Chris Jones, Kamalei Corrrea, Austin Johnson, Jihad Ward, Jason Spriggs, Jarran Reed - all before Hack

Mackensie Alexander,  TJ Green, Sean Davis , Roberto Aguayo(PK) , James Bradberry, Adam Gotsis - after Hack in 2nd round

 

So are all those GM's held to the same standard. Some of these guys may blossom just like Hack  but this just points out the draft is an educated crapshoot.

[CaliforniaJet]

58 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

Ok here are some of the All pros drafted in rd 2 this year:

Emmanuel Ogbah, Chris Jones, Kamalei Corrrea, Austin Johnson, Jihad Ward, Jason Spriggs, Jarran Reed - all before Hack

Mackensie Alexander,  TJ Green, Sean Davis , Roberto Aguayo(PK) , James Bradberry, Adam Gotsis - after Hack in 2nd round

 

So are all those GM's held to the same standard. Some of these guys may blossom just like Hack  but this just points out the draft is an educated crapshoot.

Hack hasn't even dressed yet. I believe all the guys you mentioned have all played.