I hope the Jets don't run away from the bumper crop again.

[Lil Woody]

Just like in 2014 when there was a bumper crop of WRs, this class has a terrific group of OLB/Edge rushers, TEs, RBs and CBs.  If we try to get cute again like we did in 14 and go against the grain and miss out on a lot of very solid talent again to try to get the best players available at their positions in a weak class for them I'm gonna be pissed.  Especially when our biggest needs are again in line with the strength of the draft - OLB, TE and CB.

Beyond QBs (which we should ignore during this class entirely imo) OLB is the biggest need. This team needs an edge rusher in the worst way and we have consistently left the position undermanned for years, throwing FA jags at it or waiting until later in the draft to secure talent. After QB, OLB needs to be priority number one. DBs can be average and you can still win with them. In fact the way the refs call the games with the idea to keep it close and make the end of the game exciting, any advantage you have by fielding a great DB corps gets washed away as soon as you have a lead and try to protect it through coverage.  What destroys other teams offenses at the end of games is a pass rush. If you don't have one, you could have 5 all pros back there and the opposing offense will still be allowed to push the ball down the field in 40 seconds or less. This is a great class to secure edge rushers. In fact I hope we get 2.

The other thing is this class has a good deal of solid CBs, but imo there are not a lot of exceptional ones. Outstanding depth, but looks like no elites.  It's looking like a "#2 CB" bumper crop if that is a thing. And that's still a major position where you can't afford a hole, but it shouldn't be overvalued (as we saw in our 1st round run on CBs in our mock). Wait till rd 2 or 3 to look at CBs. That's the place where there will be real value. I wouldn't rank anyone besides Lattimore or Sidney Jones (pre-injury) in the 1st round. Maybe Humphrey too. But in the 2nd, the rest of those players start to make much more sense.

TE is the other piece we should emphasize. We haven't had one worth mentioning in a long time and the NFL is a matchup league.  We need to come away with one of these guys in the top 3 rounds. If we get a second one who has an all around game later on, like Jeremy Sprinkle, all the better.

Very good RB class too but I don't think we need to worry about RBs at all this year. If we don't get one...who cares? It's the easiest position to secure talent in any draft.  Plus we aren't looking to try to win this year anyway. Let Forte end 2017 with zero tread left on the tires. 

[HessStation]

I'm actually stunned more Jets fans aren't talking Thomas and Barnett.

[Lil Woody]

5 minutes ago, HessStation said:

I'm actually stunned more Jets fans aren't talking Thomas and Barnett.

I'm definitely one of them talking Barnett at 6. For me it's OJ Howard, Mike Williams, Corey Davis or Barnett.

Thomas I love as a player, but I don't see the potential in the 3-4. I won't say he can't do it because he's a guy I am rooting hard for and he seems like the type of kid that can be very versatile, also his 3 cone and shuttle times were impressive and do fit within the range for LBs. Still, unless we were going 4-3, I wouldn't really consider Thomas.

[Tinstar]

16 minutes ago, HessStation said:

I'm actually stunned more Jets fans aren't talking Thomas and Barnett.

I'm good with Barnett, not so much with Thomas . I think Barrett is going to have a better career than Garrett  .

[HessStation]

4 minutes ago, Lil Woody said:

I'm definitely one of them talking Barnett at 6. For me it's OJ Howard, Mike Williams, Corey Davis or Barnett.

Thomas I love as a player, but I don't see the potential in the 3-4. I won't say he can't do it because he's a guy I am rooting hard for and he seems like the type of kid that can be very versatile, also his 3 cone and shuttle times were impressive and do fit within the range for LBs. Still, unless we were going 4-3, I wouldn't really consider Thomas.

Mike Williams pick would scare me a bit.

[dbatesman]

1 hour ago, HessStation said:

I'm actually stunned more Jets fans aren't talking Thomas and Barnett.

Barnett's a stiff. Thomas absolutely has to be on our short list at 6.

[bealeb319]

How terrible it was that we ended up getting enunwa with a 6th or 7th round draft pick.

Sent from my LG-D850 using Tapatalk

[TuscanyTile2]

Can someone fill me in on who Thomas and Barnett are.

[SickJetFan]

1 hour ago, HessStation said:

I'm actually stunned more Jets fans aren't talking Thomas and Barnett.

Those 2 guys are not much different than what we have..Barnett is a lot like Jenkins and Thomas is a lot like Mauldin.  What the jets need is a speedster off the edge on the strong side that runs s sub 4.7 ant can keep up with a TE so we can stop relying on midgets.  He needs to have a really good 1st step so he can beat these QB in their quick 3 step drops.  Tall order. Only one in this daft who fits that bill is Garrett anyone else in my opinion will only get you marginal results over what we already have and the opp costs would be at a position where they can get a significant gain like S, CB, TE.

[SickJetFan]

2 minutes ago, SickJetFan said:

Those 2 guys are not much different than what we have..Barnett is a lot like Jenkins and Thomas is a lot like Mauldin.  What the jets need is a speedster off the edge on the strong side that runs s sub 4.7 ant can keep up with a TE so we can stop relying on midgets.  He needs to have a really good 1st step so he can beat these QB in their quick 3 step drops.  Tall order. Only one in this daft who fits that bill is Garrett anyone else in my opinion will only get you marginal results over what we already have and the opp costs would be at a position where they can get a significant gain like S, CB, TE.

And sorry I did not mean Thomas .....I read Charles Harris for some reason......Solomon would take Jenkins spot and that would be a waste.

[Lil Woody]

49 minutes ago, bealeb319 said:

How terrible it was that we ended up getting enunwa with a 6th or 7th round draft pick.

Sent from my LG-D850 using Tapatalk
 

There is literally nothing that can be said to justify any move in that draft.  Crediting the Jets for being right on Enunwa doesn't excuse the 11 sh*tty picks made opposite him.  He was the 3rd WR we drafted that year. That draft should have set us up to be a legitimate contender. Idzik was too stupid or chickensh*t to burn that whole scouting department to the ground on day 1.  He'd have been better off buying a ******* Street and Smith magazine and asking an intern to use their rankings and go BPA every round.

[Lil Woody]

1 hour ago, dbatesman said:

Barnett's a stiff. Thomas absolutely has to be on our short list at 6.

Because....???

[dbatesman]

1 hour ago, Lil Woody said:

Because....???

Because he's one of the best athletes at his position, and the best athletes make the best pass rushers.

[T0mShane]

I don't think Thomas gets out of the Top Three, from what you read. But if he did, you have to pick him and wait for a good, creative defensive coordinator to figure out how to use him because Bowles and Rodgers are going to waste the living sh*t out of him.

[HessStation]

53 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

Because he's one of the best athletes at his position, and the best athletes make the best pass rushers.

But Barnett is like the Jet antipick. God forbid a guy based on production vs. how he looks in shorts and on paper. Not saying I would love the pick but there might be a little Terrell Suggs there too.

[Paradis]

5 hours ago, Lil Woody said:

Just like in 2014 when there was a bumper crop of WRs, this class has a terrific group of OLB/Edge rushers, TEs, RBs and CBs.  If we try to get cute again like we did in 14 and go against the grain and miss out on a lot of very solid talent again to try to get the best players available at their positions in a weak class for them I'm gonna be pissed.  Especially when our biggest needs are again in line with the strength of the draft - OLB, TE and CB.

Beyond QBs (which we should ignore during this class entirely imo) OLB is the biggest need. This team needs an edge rusher in the worst way and we have consistently left the position undermanned for years, throwing FA jags at it or waiting until later in the draft to secure talent. After QB, OLB needs to be priority number one. DBs can be average and you can still win with them. In fact the way the refs call the games with the idea to keep it close and make the end of the game exciting, any advantage you have by fielding a great DB corps gets washed away as soon as you have a lead and try to protect it through coverage.  What destroys other teams offenses at the end of games is a pass rush. If you don't have one, you could have 5 all pros back there and the opposing offense will still be allowed to push the ball down the field in 40 seconds or less. This is a great class to secure edge rushers. In fact I hope we get 2.

The other thing is this class has a good deal of solid CBs, but imo there are not a lot of exceptional ones. Outstanding depth, but looks like no elites.  It's looking like a "#2 CB" bumper crop if that is a thing. And that's still a major position where you can't afford a hole, but it shouldn't be overvalued (as we saw in our 1st round run on CBs in our mock). Wait till rd 2 or 3 to look at CBs. That's the place where there will be real value. I wouldn't rank anyone besides Lattimore or Sidney Jones (pre-injury) in the 1st round. Maybe Humphrey too. But in the 2nd, the rest of those players start to make much more sense.

TE is the other piece we should emphasize. We haven't had one worth mentioning in a long time and the NFL is a matchup league.  We need to come away with one of these guys in the top 3 rounds. If we get a second one who has an all around game later on, like Jeremy Sprinkle, all the better.

Very good RB class too but I don't think we need to worry about RBs at all this year. If we don't get one...who cares? It's the easiest position to secure talent in any draft.  Plus we aren't looking to try to win this year anyway. Let Forte end 2017 with zero tread left on the tires. 

You opened with an interesting statement - and then wandered. I agree, that if we try to get cute with the best RB and TE class in decade(s)/ever, then we run the risk of repeating 2014...

Then you proceeded to ignore the RB/TE until your last two paragraphs that you limped to the finish line with. 

--This is not a prolific OLB/Edge class... there's a few at the top (above average) and a handful of typical mid-range guys. It's a better than average, but that's about it

--There's a quite a few promising CBs (I'd stop short of blue chippers tho), and a lot depth at Safety. Good draft in the secondary. Pick your shots.

--Bar setting at RB/TE.... don't get caught Idzik'ing... go get 'em. 

 

[RESNewYork]

Keion Adams. 

Josh Jones 

[thadude]

5 hours ago, HessStation said:

I'm actually stunned more Jets fans aren't talking Thomas and Barnett.

Barnett

[dbatesman]

6 hours ago, HessStation said:

But Barnett is like the Jet antipick. God forbid a guy based on production vs. how he looks in shorts and on paper. Not saying I would love the pick but there might be a little Terrell Suggs there too.

A guy who looks good on tape but doesn't have the athletic chops to hack it in the league is pretty much the prototypical Jets pick.

[T0mShane]

12 hours ago, HessStation said:

Mike Williams pick would scare me a bit.

Big, productive, reasonably athletic, huge catch radius, from a school that produces good pros at the position. Fielded a whole bunch of iffy Watson passes. What's the beef, son?

[dbatesman]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

Big, productive, reasonably athletic, huge catch radius, from a school that produces good pros at the position. Fielded a whole bunch of iffy Watson passes. What's the beef, son?

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/nfl-draft/2017/playmaker-score-2017

[T0mShane]

26 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/nfl-draft/2017/playmaker-score-2017

Well, that's disappointing. Look at Zay Jones, too. 

[Sperm Edwards]

10 hours ago, dbatesman said:

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/nfl-draft/2017/playmaker-score-2017

I just gave that a quick skim. So two of the serious knocks on him, lowering his "Playmaker Score" were the result of (1) Watson threw to other people - including when the play call was to go to someone else - instead of forcing it in to him even more, no matter what, just because he was their top receiver; and (2) he didn't have rushing attempts.

The thing that would be more concerning - but not necessarily to the point of worrying about picking him - is the top end speed. While it's overblown, he didn't run a 40 at the combine and then at his pro day - a different playing field than others, typically yielding better times than at the combine - he ran "only" a 4.5. But he's a huge kid Brandon Marshall's size. I doubt Marshall (or Decker, for that matter) has been able to run faster than a 4.5 as a NYJ, and didn't typically do so when younger, as Broncos, either.

If he's got: a knack for getting open and being where he's supposed to with crisp/accurate routes; a good juke move; has a nose for the first down marker; knows how to use his body to box out a defender; doesn't force body-catches that unnecessarily interrupt his route and/or leave his feet when he doesn't have to; and (unlike Marshall in particular) has reliable hands & doesn't suffer from concentration lapses... I don't care about his 40 time being a 4.5 rather than a 4.4. Moving the chains regularly, or at will, is more important than the occasional outrunning of a speedy corner in a dead foot race in single coverage. Unless that 4.5 is a phony pro day time, and he's really closer to a 4.7 (like if, under his pro day conditions, dozens would be eclipsing 4.3-ish times themselves).

[HessStation]

2 hours ago, dbatesman said:

A guy who looks good on tape but doesn't have the athletic chops to hack it in the league is pretty much the prototypical Jets pick.

Meh, DRob, Bryan Thomas, Gholston, Coples picks were all based on, "wow what an athlete" and how impressive they looked in shorts. 

Dave Harris is like the one guy I can think of who was picked based on, on the field. 

[Lil Woody]

9 hours ago, Paradis said:

You opened with an interesting statement - and then wandered. I agree, that if we try to get cute with the best RB and TE class in decade(s)/ever, then we run the risk of repeating 2014...

Then you proceeded to ignore the RB/TE until your last two paragraphs that you limped to the finish line with. 

--This is not a prolific OLB/Edge class... there's a few at the top (above average) and a handful of typical mid-range guys. It's a better than average, but that's about it

--There's a quite a few promising CBs (I'd stop short of blue chippers tho), and a lot depth at Safety. Good draft in the secondary. Pick your shots.

--Bar setting at RB/TE.... don't get caught Idzik'ing... go get 'em. 

 

LOL. What are you a creative writing teacher?  Yeah I suck at that stuff. Always hated it. You got the points though so that's all I care about. TE we need to get. RB is RB. Yes this class is better than other years, but it's still just RB. Focus on Edge, TE and CB.

[Lil Woody]

30 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Well, that's disappointing. Look at Zay Jones, too. 

Use your eyes, don't bother with "playmaker scores" or whatever bullsh*t these PFF type sites are selling. Their just providing their opinions which they converted to a numerical grade and people then use those grades as some sort of proof. It's all bullsh*t. I give Williams an A- and JuJu a B+.  Doesn't mean jack sh*t. If we converted the A- to 92 and B+ to 89 it is still the same thing, it just sounds more legitimate.

[varjet]

If i am Macc I am terrified by the 6th pick.  So much pressure to draft someone who is both athletically perfect and can perform.   Not easy, and can easily lead to the Vernon Gholston's of the world.  

Pegula and the Bills worked Trubisky out his week.  Trubisky cannot hit 10 or 12, but if the Jets take him he learns in 2017, and Macc and Bowles get fired.

From a value perspective  Mitch is likely the pick at 6.  The Jets need to say that they are picking him if certain other players are off the board.   If the Bills or Browns want Mitch, they can trade for him.

The Jets should take a worse deal from the Browns so they don't need to face him 2x per year.

At 12 the Jets take Willis or Harris   With the 4 picks on Day 2, they take a te, safety, cb, repeat.

voila   

 

 

[HessStation]

2 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Big, productive, reasonably athletic, huge catch radius, from a school that produces good pros at the position. Fielded a whole bunch of iffy Watson passes. What's the beef, son?

1. Injury history

2. Seperation/route running should be like priority #1 for a WR imo...so I'm reading a lot of, "doesn't come hard out of breaks" rhetoric

3. Weak Vertical 

4. Doesn't have "elite" hands

5. Doesn't have "elite" speed

 

[IntoTheGreen]

25 minutes ago, HessStation said:

1. Injury history

2. Seperation/route running should be like priority #1 for a WR imo...so I'm reading a lot of, "doesn't come hard out of breaks" rhetoric

3. Weak Vertical 

4. Doesn't have "elite" hands

5. Doesn't have "elite" speed

 

On the tape that I've seen, I feel he is more likely a possession WR than elite. I wouldn't be upset with the pick, but I think I'd rather have OJ Howard. 

[SouthernJet]

15 hours ago, Lil Woody said:

Just like in 2014 when there was a bumper crop of WRs, this class has a terrific group of OLB/Edge rushers, TEs, RBs and CBs.  If we try to get cute again like we did in 14 and go against the grain and miss out on a lot of very solid talent again to try to get the best players available at their positions in a weak class for them I'm gonna be pissed.  Especially when our biggest needs are again in line with the strength of the draft - OLB, TE and CB.

Beyond QBs (which we should ignore during this class entirely imo) OLB is the biggest need. This team needs an edge rusher in the worst way and we have consistently left the position undermanned for years, throwing FA jags at it or waiting until later in the draft to secure talent. After QB, OLB needs to be priority number one. DBs can be average and you can still win with them. In fact the way the refs call the games with the idea to keep it close and make the end of the game exciting, any advantage you have by fielding a great DB corps gets washed away as soon as you have a lead and try to protect it through coverage.  What destroys other teams offenses at the end of games is a pass rush. If you don't have one, you could have 5 all pros back there and the opposing offense will still be allowed to push the ball down the field in 40 seconds or less. This is a great class to secure edge rushers. In fact I hope we get 2.

The other thing is this class has a good deal of solid CBs, but imo there are not a lot of exceptional ones. Outstanding depth, but looks like no elites.  It's looking like a "#2 CB" bumper crop if that is a thing. And that's still a major position where you can't afford a hole, but it shouldn't be overvalued (as we saw in our 1st round run on CBs in our mock). Wait till rd 2 or 3 to look at CBs. That's the place where there will be real value. I wouldn't rank anyone besides Lattimore or Sidney Jones (pre-injury) in the 1st round. Maybe Humphrey too. But in the 2nd, the rest of those players start to make much more sense.

TE is the other piece we should emphasize. We haven't had one worth mentioning in a long time and the NFL is a matchup league.  We need to come away with one of these guys in the top 3 rounds. If we get a second one who has an all around game later on, like Jeremy Sprinkle, all the better.

Very good RB class too but I don't think we need to worry about RBs at all this year. If we don't get one...who cares? It's the easiest position to secure talent in any draft.  Plus we aren't looking to try to win this year anyway. Let Forte end 2017 with zero tread left on the tires. 

I have confidence we will do whatever blows up in our face as per usual

[dbatesman]

50 minutes ago, HessStation said:

Meh, DRob, Bryan Thomas, Gholston, Coples picks were all based on, "wow what an athlete" and how impressive they looked in shorts. 

Dave Harris is like the one guy I can think of who was picked based on, on the field. 

I was thinking more of guys like Mauldin rather than Harris, since the athletic numbers are less important for ILBs than for EDGE guys. Gholston and Coples weren't actually all that athletic (at least not in any of the ways that actually matter).

[Jetdawgg]

10 hours ago, T0mShane said:

I don't think Thomas gets out of the Top Three, from what you read. But if he did, you have to pick him and wait for a good, creative defensive coordinator to figure out how to use him because Bowles and Rodgers are going to waste the living sh*t out of him.

The best innovation Rodgers did was tell his story so he would not be fired

[Warfish]

15 hours ago, Lil Woody said:

Especially when our biggest needs are again in line with the strength of the draft - OLB, TE and CB.

If you believe this, I would question your analysis of the strengths and weaknesses of our current roster, and the importance of some positions vs. others on a modern NFL team.

[Komba]

35 minutes ago, IntoTheGreen said:

On the tape that I've seen, I feel he is more likely a possession WR than elite. I wouldn't be upset with the pick, but I think I'd rather have OJ Howard. 

Exactly.  Williams isn't garbage.  He has good hands and can come down with jump balls, but separation is a concern.  Wouldn't be crazy about him as the 6th pick.

Consider Corey Davis the better player if we MUST go receiver.  I'd prefer to wait however for guys like Kupp.

My wish is for Trubisky at 6... If the worst thing happens and he's taken, then hopefully Jamal Adams.  Adams will be an all-pro.  

[Scoop24]

16 hours ago, HessStation said:

Mike Williams pick would scare me a bit.

He is a Brandon Marshall Clone .. idk how he scares you . People went a Crazy about Alshon athletic numbers and he still turned into a great WR. Mike is a better athlete with similar traits to go up and get the ball you can't jump with them that's what makes them special..