JetNation Tuesday Tidbits

[JetNation]

By Glenn Naughton

 

A few notes, thoughts and links to previous articles on Gang Green to pass along:

• Last week we told you about UDFA linebacker Connor Harris’ off the charts versatility and it looks like the Jets may ask him to make a position change at some point.  The Jets need a fullback, and during an interview on WFAN following the draft, GM Mike Maccagnan said the team has considered looking at Harris as a fullback.
• Speaking of fullbacks, one option that hasn’t been mentioned as another possible convert from the defensive side of the ball is defensive lineman Bradin Bryant.  A high-motor player who uses his hands well along the D-line, Bryant spent some time with the Seahawks earlier in his career where Pete Carroll tried to make him a fullback.  The experiment failed, but with so few options at the position, you can’t rule out anything for the Jets.
• For some reason we’re still hearing fans refer to Jets first round draft pick Jamal Adams as a box safety.  Yes, cynicism is bred in to Jets fans the same way denial is wired into Patriots fans, but a look at Pro Football Focus’ breakdown on Adams’ snaps at LSU tell a much different story.  Per PFF, Adams played just 27% of his snaps at strong safety or linebacker, with the other 73% coming at free safety and slot corner.  Hardly what you’d expect to see from a box safety.

Quincy Enunwa should pair nicely with rookie receiver ArDarius Stewart.

• He may not be as big or explosive as Quincy Enunwa, but it’s hard to watch ArDarius Stewart and not think of the hard-nosed Enunwa who likes to give as good as he gets when it comes to initiating contact.  Could be lots of fun watching these two on the field together.
• The Jets took another look at running back Khiry Robinson this week during their mini camp but as of now, he hasn’t been signed to a deal.  Something may surface in the future, but if not, you have to wonder if second year player Brandon Wilds has a shot to make the roster.  At 6′ 2” 220, Wilds is the closest thing the team has to a short-yardage/power back.
• Before the draft we looked at a few current/former starters whose jobs may be in jeopardy following the draft. We highlighted Calvin Pryor and Marcus Gilchrist.  One of whom was shopped (Pryor) and of course Gilchrist was released.  With little depth in terms of a coverage safety, it looks like the team has a bit more confidence in Doug Middleton, an undrafted free agent who logged some playing time late last season, than previously thought.

Doug Middleton could see an uptick in playing time this season.

• Robby Anderson’s recent arrest had Jets fans fired up in our forums this week.  Some fans were ready to cut ties with the promising young receiver while others preferred a “wait and see” approach before the team takes any action.  Have any thoughts on Anderson’s arrest?  Log on to our forums to speak up.

One final note is something we’ve all been thinking.  Draft is done, rookie camp is over, only a few months before everyone is reporting for training camp!

Click here to read the full story...

[T0mShane]

I think we're referring to Adams as a "box safety" because they immediately drafted a free safety in the second round, and as awful as it was to draft back to back safeties, it'd be even worse if we drafted back to back safeties that do the same thing. Which isn't unlikely.

[AFJF]

12 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I think we're referring to Adams as a "box safety" because they immediately drafted a free safety in the second round, and as awful as it was to draft back to back safeties, it'd be even worse if we drafted back to back safeties that do the same thing. Which isn't unlikely.

Dating back to last season Bowles always refers to his safeties as "interchangeable" which we all know is complete BS.  Calvin Pryor has no business being in coverage, ever. Now with these two guys, we'll see something much closer to a 50/50 split than in the past.  Legitimately interchangeable guys...we hope.

Also, when I've seen him referred to as a box safety it's almost always in a derogatory manner, suggesting he's not capable of being anything more than that.

[BurnleyJet]

2 minutes ago, AFJF said:

Dating back to last season Bowles always refers to his safeties as "interchangeable" which we all know is complete BS.  Calvin Pryor has no business being in coverage, ever. Now with these two guys, we'll see something much closer to a 50/50 split than in the past.  Legitimately interchangeable guys...we hope.

Also, when I've seen him referred to as a box safety it's almost always in a derogatory manner, suggesting he's not capable of being anything more than that.

Boom, just about to type #interchangeable. In the modern NFL, there just isn't a diffrence between both Safeties. 

It's just Pryor isn't capable of doing both.

[SickJetFan]

5 minutes ago, AFJF said:

Dating back to last season Bowles always refers to his safeties as "interchangeable" which we all know is complete BS.  Calvin Pryor has no business being in coverage, ever. Now with these two guys, we'll see something much closer to a 50/50 split than in the past.  Legitimately interchangeable guys...we hope.

Also, when I've seen him referred to as a box safety it's almost always in a derogatory manner, suggesting he's not capable of being anything more than that.

in a passing league there is no such thing as a SS any more.  If you dedicate a player as a SS who cant cover that means you have to spend more time in sub packages like nickel meaning taking one of the bigger guys out of the front 7 hurting both pass rush and run.

[AFJF]

16 minutes ago, BurnleyJet said:

Boom, just about to type #interchangeable. In the modern NFL, there just isn't a diffrence between both Safeties. 

It's just Pryor isn't capable of doing both.

Exactly.  When Bowles says interchangeable, he may like the idea on paper and he may do it on game days, but it's a big reason why the secondary was so horrible last season. Pryor is the very definition of a box safety so to say Adams is one, puts them on par with one another, which (we hope) is far from the case.

[AFJF]

18 minutes ago, SickJetFan said:

in a passing league there is no such thing as a SS any more.  If you dedicate a player as a SS who cant cover that means you have to spend more time in sub packages like nickel meaning taking one of the bigger guys out of the front 7 hurting both pass rush and run.

That's correct, but as the Jets have shown over the past three seasons, you can have a guy who is strictly a box safety, play him out of position/over his head, and call him "interchangeable".

They didn't have that before, but ideally, they do now.

[SickJetFan]

Just now, AFJF said:

That's correct, but as the Jets have shown over the past three seasons, you can have a guy who is strictly a box safety, play him out of position/over his head, and call him "interchangeable".

They didn't have that before, but ideally, they do now.

it is no coincidence that with the arrival of Pryor the term "exotic blitz packages" disappeared.  They use to love to say that during Rex games.  Prior to Pryor. Rex had 2 safeties that could cover and 2 DB that could cover leaving the front 7 intact miraculously allowing you to blitz from any direction.

[Dinamite]

Thanks for the article.  It was a good read this morning.

[T0mShane]

52 minutes ago, SickJetFan said:

in a passing league there is no such thing as a SS any more.  If you dedicate a player as a SS who cant cover that means you have to spend more time in sub packages like nickel meaning taking one of the bigger guys out of the front 7 hurting both pass rush and run.

Explain Kam Chancellor.

[SickJetFan]

Just now, T0mShane said:

Explain Kam Chancellor.

easy...Pete Carroll runs a 4/3 with a cover 3 zone system which is a completely different defense and different draft profile they spent 3 years drafing towards.

[T0mShane]

4 minutes ago, SickJetFan said:

easy...Pete Carroll runs a 4/3 with a cover 3 zone system which is a completely different defense and different draft profile they spent 3 years drafing towards.

Interesting. What defense does Belichick run? 

[SickJetFan]

Just now, T0mShane said:

Interesting. What defense does Belichick run? 

i dont know what every team runs sorry - I do know he runs predominately a 4/3 and has some pretty good safeties

[Maxman]

Anyone remember the game a few years ago where Pryor was covering Gronk in the first half, I think the Jets were playing well against the Pats?

Pryor got hurt (sprained ankle) and then Gronk took over in the 2nd half. I remember thinking oh wow Pryor can cover a tight end. I don't think there was really ever another glimpse of it again. But we had that first half.

[SickJetFan]

23 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Explain Kam Chancellor.

here is a good way to explain him I found

http://www.espn.com/blog/seattle-seahawks/post/_/id/14623/why-kam-chancellor-was-irreplaceable-in-the-seahawks-scheme

That’s trouble. Plus, we can’t forget about man coverage. Chancellor can check a tight end on the seam, post, dig, etc. His technique is excellent, and he understands how to play routes based on game situations and the sticks. Veteran guy who gets it.

 

[SickJetFan]

16 minutes ago, Maxman said:

Anyone remember the game a few years ago where Pryor was covering Gronk in the first half, I think the Jets were playing well against the Pats?

Pryor got hurt (sprained ankle) and then Gronk took over in the 2nd half. I remember thinking oh wow Pryor can cover a tight end. I don't think there was really ever another glimpse of it again. But we had that first half.

it is no wonder he sprained his ankle..trying to keep up

 

[Integrity28]

43 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Interesting. What defense does Belichick run? 

Cheating.

[AFJF]

1 hour ago, Maxman said:

Anyone remember the game a few years ago where Pryor was covering Gronk in the first half, I think the Jets were playing well against the Pats?

Pryor got hurt (sprained ankle) and then Gronk took over in the 2nd half. I remember thinking oh wow Pryor can cover a tight end. I don't think there was really ever another glimpse of it again. But we had that first half.

In all reality, nobody can cover Gronk, so it's gonna' be ridiculous when people lose their minds when Adams gets beat by arguably the best receiving TE in NFL history.  Until he breaks down physically or retires, the guy is gonna' be unstoppable.  Sure, you can do some things to get Brady to look elsewhere, but if the ball is in the air and it's between him and anybody else, I'm putting my money on him.

 

[Beerfish]

1 hour ago, SickJetFan said:

easy...Pete Carroll runs a 4/3 with a cover 3 zone system which is a completely different defense and different draft profile they spent 3 years drafing towards.

And Seattle has had one of the best defense in the league for years, we get bowles and his 'we have to draft players to fit my scheme' approach and then his scheme sucks.

It is far tougher to find all around safeties that can both cover well and be solid in the box safeties.  We just spent our 1st tow picks on safeties to appease todd bowles.

[SickJetFan]

1 minute ago, Beerfish said:

And Seattle has had one of the best defense in the league for years, we get bowles and his 'we have to draft players to fit my scheme' approach and then his scheme sucks.

It is far tougher to find all around safeties that can both cover well and be solid in the box safeties.  We just spent our 1st tow picks on safeties to appease todd bowles.

thats BS every team needs 2 safeties that can man cover...jets had 0 going into draft.

[JiFtheOracle]

3 hours ago, T0mShane said:

I think we're referring to Adams as a "box safety" because they immediately drafted a free safety in the second round, and as awful as it was to draft back to back safeties, it'd be even worse if we drafted back to back safeties that do the same thing. Which isn't unlikely.

The hilarity behind it all is that Adams definitely has more range than Maye. 

[Beerfish]

19 minutes ago, SickJetFan said:

thats BS every team needs 2 safeties that can man cover...jets had 0 going into draft.

No, wrong.  Kam chancellor gets killed if asked to cover deep like any other big box safety.  Lets put Ed Reed in the box half the time and see how it affects him.

There is a VAST difference between asking a S to cover tight ends and RBs and having them cover slot guys or provide deep support.

It's a rarity to find guys that can do both at a high level.  The Jets just spent massive draft resources to get guys they think can do both and that is becasue of the way that Bowles plays defense.

[section314]

2 hours ago, Maxman said:

Anyone remember the game a few years ago where Pryor was covering Gronk in the first half, I think the Jets were playing well against the Pats?

Pryor got hurt (sprained ankle) and then Gronk took over in the 2nd half. I remember thinking oh wow Pryor can cover a tight end. I don't think there was really ever another glimpse of it again. But we had that first half.

Yep...think it was 2015, in N.E. The game where Marshall dropped the TD pass from Fitz,which would have put us up two scores mid 4th, and you know the rest.

[SickJetFan]

4 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

No, wrong.  Kam chancellor gets killed if asked to cover deep like any other big box safety.  Lets put Ed Reed in the box half the time and see how it affects him.

There is a VAST difference between asking a S to cover tight ends and RBs and having them cover slot guys or provide deep support.

It's a rarity to find guys that can do both at a high level.  The Jets just spent massive draft resources to get guys they think can do both and that is becasue of the way that Bowles plays defense.

you dont seem to get the fact that the term Man Coverage does not necessarily mean covering a deep post route or playing center field and covering both sides of the field.  A safety playing close to LOS needs to come up and take the WR3, TE, or RB and cover the 1st 15 yards at minimum ideally like your NB would then release if they go out of your zone.

[Beerfish]

12 minutes ago, SickJetFan said:

you dont seem to get the fact that the term Man Coverage does not necessarily mean covering a deep post route or playing center field and covering both sides of the field.  A safety playing close to LOS needs to come up and take the WR3, TE, or RB and cover the 1st 15 yards at minimum ideally like your NB would then release if they go out of your zone.

Yeah so in other words you just said that like most teams in the league you get yourself a box safety and a free safety.  What you don;lt seem to get is that bowles has said he interchanges his safeties so you get cavin freaking pryor being asked to cover deep and Marcus Gilchrist being asked to be the box safety and of course they both suck at it.

Bowels wants BOTH safeties to be able to be effective in each task and to do that you have to draft players high because the skill set to do both well is rare.

[SickJetFan]

Just now, Beerfish said:

Yeah so in other words you just said that like most teams in the league you get yourself a box safety and a free safety.  What you don;lt seem to get is that bowles has said he interchanges his safeties so you get cavin freaking pryor being asked to cover deep and Marcus Gilchrist being asked to be the box safety and of course they both suck at it.

Bowels wants BOTH safeties to be able to be effective in each task and to do that you have to draft players high because the skill set to do both well is rare.

actually I went back with coaches tape and game pass and re watched a few games focusing on their safety play before the draft and I was actually surprised what I found out.

w/o going into too much detail here I thought Gilchrist was best used close to LOS (which you would call SS) because of his man coverage skills and I thought Pryor was more effective sticking back in center field limiting YAC and coming up to support the run but in FS role.  Whenever the roles reversed and Pryor got the call to be SS he was picked on relentlessly to the point where they stopped using him and put Miles in.

[TJ]

3 hours ago, SickJetFan said:

it is no coincidence that with the arrival of Pryor the term "exotic blitz packages" disappeared.  They use to love to say that during Rex games.  Prior to Pryor. Rex had 2 safeties that could cover and 2 DB that could cover leaving the front 7 intact miraculously allowing you to blitz from any direction.

Sounds like a tv show.  Like Gumbel to Gumbel. 

[JETSfaninNE]

3 hours ago, Maxman said:

Anyone remember the game a few years ago where Pryor was covering Gronk in the first half, I think the Jets were playing well against the Pats?

Pryor got hurt (sprained ankle) and then Gronk took over in the 2nd half. I remember thinking oh wow Pryor can cover a tight end. I don't think there was really ever another glimpse of it again. But we had that first half.

I based his following seasons projections on that single game.  I was convinced he was able to cover after that game.  Man talk about a big tease, never resurfaced unfortunately

[Jetmech]

No, wrong.  Kam chancellor gets killed if asked to cover deep like any other big box safety.  Lets put Ed Reed in the box half the time and see how it affects him.
There is a VAST difference between asking a S to cover tight ends and RBs and having them cover slot guys or provide deep support.
It's a rarity to find guys that can do both at a high level.  The Jets just spent massive draft resources to get guys they think can do both and that is becasue of the way that Bowles plays defense.

All of this would continue to concern me on Bowles & Co.

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[Jets0712]

you dont seem to get the fact that the term Man Coverage does not necessarily mean covering a deep post route or playing center field and covering both sides of the field.  A safety playing close to LOS needs to come up and take the WR3, TE, or RB and cover the 1st 15 yards at minimum ideally like your NB would then release if they go out of your zone.

Plus you always can rely on sheldumb lining up and than have him cover the skinny post when the ball is snapped


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[jamesr]

With both the guys we picked, the first word the NFL.com summary had about them was "Interchangeable".

[SickJetFan]

55 minutes ago, Jets0712 said:

Plus you always can rely on sheldumb lining up and than have him cover the skinny post when the ball is snapped


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Sheldumb never gets old does it