Can Jets' Wesley Johnson 'prove them right' as Nick Mangold's replacement?

[Gas2No99]

Can Jets' Wesley Johnson 'prove them right' as Nick Mangold's replacement?

Wesley Johnson is entering a big season. (Michael Mancuso | For NJ.com)

CALDWELL -- It's clear the Jets have high hopes for their new center, Wesley Johnson. 

After all, they cut longtime center Nick Mangold earlier this offseason, and then they didn't sign a big-name free agent center, or draft an offensive lineman at all. 

So they're rolling with Johnson as their starter, with low-profile free agent acquisition Jonotthan Harrison as the likely backup. Johnson, a fourth-year pro, has nine career starts, including eight last season, when Mangold hurt his ankle. 

Johnson took it as a vote of confidence, from the Jets, when they didn't draft or sign a prominent center after cutting Mangold. 

"Yeah, I did," he said. "I was happy with it. I've just got to prove them right." 

Johnson spoke Monday at Jets middle linebacker David Harris' annual charity golf tournament, which benefits the Give the Kids Hope Foundation. 

Johnson looks up to Mangold, so it was tough for Johnson to see Mangold go. 

"It's hard," Johnson said. "He's been a mentor to me. He's kind of a mentor for life. But that's the business. I feel like they kind of recycle everybody. I'm sure Nick will be fine, wherever he goes." 

Johnson said last season's eight starts left him "knowing that I can do the job, and also knowing what I've got to improve at." 

It helped that Mangold stuck around the team after landing on injured reserve in December. 

"He was right behind me the whole way," Johnson said. "He was in my back pocket. He helped me every chance he could. I appreciate that a lot." 

Johnson and Mangold have kept in touch since the Jets cut Mangold. Johnson said Mangold's message to him has been "good luck." Johnson, who joined the Jets in October 2014, already took plenty of tips just from watching Mangold play. 

"The way he approached it," Johnson said. "Just watched tape every day. He knew the offense better than even some of the quarterbacks. He was very knowledgeable, and he took a lot of pride in being able to command the offense." 

 

Mangold had been the Jets center since they drafted him in 2006, so these are big shoes to fill. Can Johnson immediately command the Jets' offense like Mangold did for so long? 

"It's difficult, but we'll see," Johnson said. 

If Johnson plays well in 2017, he could cash in next offseason, since he is playing this season on a one-year restricted free agent tender contract. 

[peebag]

God speed, Wesley Johnson

[David Harris]

I'll always compare wesley Johnson to Eiflen, the center we just passed on in the 3rd round this draft, we traded out and down and took the Bama WR so the opportunity cost eval will be interesting comparing the values of all 3 of those guys going forward.  

I hope it's not another Gabe Jackson situation- the very good guard we passed on in the 3rd round and was taken one pick after Idzik took dexter mcdougle.  It was a huge miss and that's how you build that o-line, hit on some mid round picks that fall to you.  I just really want to support whatever young qb we put back there to give them a real chance to develop without overly worrying about getting smashed every drop back.

[#27TheDominator]

Cool.  So we are going to let this guy start for Mangold on a one year deal.  If he is good, he hits the market as a UFA.  If he sucks, he sucked.  Either way we are ****ed.

[varjet]

6 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Cool.  So we are going to let this guy start for Mangold on a one year deal.  If he is good, he hits the market as a UFA.  If he sucks, he sucked.  Either way we are ****ed.

I have been wondering that as well.  I presume we don't want to franchise him.

The general view is that Stewart was picked high, and Elflein was a great value where he was picked.  

It was also clear to me that the Jets appear to have a surplus of WRs and a shortage of good OL.

I think the Stewart/Elflein tradeoff was my biggest issue with the Jets' draft.

[SickJetFan]

just remember the snap count doofus and we will be ok

[C Mart]

52 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Cool.  So we are going to let this guy start for Mangold on a one year deal.  If he is good, he hits the market as a UFA.  If he sucks, he sucked.  Either way we are ****ed.

Or you know they can resign him before he hits FA, like what they did w/Winters this past Jan.

[#27TheDominator]

Just now, C Mart said:

Or you know they can resign him before he hits FA, like what they did w/Winters this past Jan.

Oh, you mean pay more than fair market value?  Sure, they can always do that.

[C Mart]

4 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Oh, you mean pay more than fair market value?  Sure, they can always do that.

SMH...Carry on

On Monday, they gave right guard Brian Winters -- their top pending in-house free agent -- a four-year contract extension. It is worth $29 million ($7.25 million per year), with $15 million guaranteed. ESPN first reported those contract details.

 

vs Winters 2 yr out of $15m guaranteed

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/guard/signed/

[sourceworx]

55 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Cool.  So we are going to let this guy start for Mangold on a one year deal.  If he is good, he hits the market as a UFA.  If he sucks, he sucked.  Either way we are ****ed.

You're right. Better we sign him to a long term deal. Then if/when he sucks, we're stuck with his bloated contract.

[#27TheDominator]

8 minutes ago, C Mart said:

SMH...Carry on

 

7 minutes ago, sourceworx said:

You're right. Better we sign him to a long term deal. Then if/when he sucks, we're stuck with his bloated contract.

I don't know what your shaking your head at.  If you think Winters rates a top 8 contract at RG, more power to you.  I don't.  He had one decent year AND he has not been the most durable dude.

It is VERY simple.  They signed this guy to a decent deal for a complete unknown.  1/$2.75M.  Instead of that, sign him for 2/$5.5-6M.  No reason for him not to sign it and you are protected by having him back at the same money on the off chance that he doesn't blow.  They should have done it with Ijalana this offseason.  

Why the **** would anyone want expiring contracts?  You guys think a comp pick is more important than starting C?

[Beerfish]

Step one remember the snap count.  this guy seems to have an issue with this.

[C Mart]

7 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

 

I don't know what your shaking your head at.  If you think Winters rates a top 8 contract at RG, more power to you.  I don't.  He had one decent year AND he has not been the most durable dude.

It is VERY simple.  They signed this guy to a decent deal for a complete unknown.  1/$2.75M.  Instead of that, sign him for 2/$5.5-6M.  No reason for him not to sign it and you are protected by having him back at the same money on the off chance that he doesn't blow.  They should have done it with Ijalana this offseason.  

Why the **** would anyone want expiring contracts?  You guys think a comp pick is more important than starting C?

after Lang, Leary and a few other OGs signed their FA deals, pretty sure he's not top 10..Again, 2 yr out..

[C Mart]

3 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Step one remember the snap count.  this guy seems to have an issue with this.

How many times, other than the Miami game?  

[#27TheDominator]

10 minutes ago, C Mart said:

after Lang, Leary and a few other OGs signed their FA deals, pretty sure he's not top 10..Again, 2 yr out..

Agree to disagree.  I didn't say he is top 10 in OGs, but he is 8th RG in salary per year.  Pretty sure he is still top 15 OG.  I don't think it was a team friendly deal, but WAY more importantly, I don't think that the team maximized the value based upon the time/years left.  If they thought he didn't suck they should have locked him up before last year cheaply.  

Maccagnan has a history of signing guys to one year deals and then paying good money to reup the guy the following year.  Why the **** did Powell rate a jump in salary per year from 2015 to 2016?  Did Ijalana's performance at T really rate a $5M per year raise? Nobody touched those guys after 2015.  Suddenly we have to pay them?  GTFO.

[Bleedin Green]

Johnson will never be what Mangold used to be in his early days, but last season there was no real difference between Johnson and what Mangold has been in recent years, with the sole exception of the one well-known early snap.  This was the right move, and he should be solid enough based on what we saw last year.

In regards to his current contract situation, no player worth a damn will ever agree to a long term deal for cheap, no matter how much we want them to.  There's no incentive for any player to do so, unless it's heavy on future guarantees, to cover the possibility of a major injury.  Even then, their fright of injury would have to outweigh their confidence in their own ability to make more money.  Unless he ends up completely out-of-the-league type awful this year, which of course he would not expect of himself, it would be easy enough for him to get at least a similar deal from the Jets or plenty of other teams, while very likely getting quite a bit more if he's even remotely respectable this year.  If the Jets think he's a long-term starter, they need to pony up and pay him like one.  If they're not convinced, then these two sides will never come to an agreement beyond this year.

[Integrity28]

45 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

 

I don't know what your shaking your head at.  If you think Winters rates a top 8 contract at RG, more power to you.  I don't.  He had one decent year AND he has not been the most durable dude.

It is VERY simple.  They signed this guy to a decent deal for a complete unknown.  1/$2.75M.  Instead of that, sign him for 2/$5.5-6M.  No reason for him not to sign it and you are protected by having him back at the same money on the off chance that he doesn't blow.  They should have done it with Ijalana this offseason.  

Why the **** would anyone want expiring contracts?  You guys think a comp pick is more important than starting C?

Look around the league, the majority of top 8 contracts do not belong to top 8 players at their respective positions. It's the nature of inflation in the NFL, due to the annual salary cap increases.

I get not being stoked about having him on the 1-yr deal, but don't root your argument in Winters having a top-8 paying contract, because it's mostly irrelevant.

Anyway, carry on... 

[Sperm Edwards]

1 minute ago, #27TheDominator said:

Agree to disagree.  I didn't say he is top 10 in OGs, but he is 8th RG in salary per year.  Pretty sure he is still top 15 OG.  I don't think it was a team friendly deal, but WAY more importantly, I don't think that the team maximized the value based upon the time/years left.  If they thought he didn't suck they should have locked him up before last year cheaply.  

Maccagnan has a history of signing guys to one year deals and then paying good money to reup the guy the following year.  Why the **** did Powell rate a jump in salary per year from 2015 to 2016?  Did Ijalana's performance at T really rate a $5M per year raise? Nobody touched those guys after 2015.  Suddenly we have to pay them?  GTFO.

What's worse is we knew them best of all, and should have had an advance idea of what these players are and aren't capable of doing. We're treating them as though they were draft picks that are unknowns until the upcoming season's over. Then he waits until their serious/permanent injury risk has passed and then has to predictably make much higher offers.

The Winters thing is still a sore point with me as well, but I've talked about it enough. The lack of foresight Maccagnan exhibited was painful, and it's a move he's presently repeating with Enunwa (whose price will surely double or more by the time we get around to extending him, when we'll repeat the pattern of transferring massive leverage to a player that previously had very little). 

[section314]

There is no way in hell Johnson will be the opening day center. He is terrible. It will be either Harrison, the UDFA kid from Michigan or a camp cut. 

[sourceworx]

5 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Agree to disagree.  I didn't say he is top 10 in OGs, but he is 8th RG in salary per year.  Pretty sure he is still top 15 OG.  I don't think it was a team friendly deal, but WAY more importantly, I don't think that the team maximized the value based upon the time/years left.  If they thought he didn't suck they should have locked him up before last year cheaply.  

Maccagnan has a history of signing guys to one year deals and then paying good money to reup the guy the following year.  Why the **** did Powell rate a jump in salary per year from 2015 to 2016?  Did Ijalana's performance at T really rate a $5M per year raise? Nobody touched those guys after 2015.  Suddenly we have to pay them?  GTFO.

You're saying this with the benefit of hindsight. Powell was serviceable at best prior to 2015. He was signed to a one year deal in 2015 mainly for depth. He became a spark plug for the offense (seemingly out of nowhere) late in the season, which is why they re-signed him last year.  

Winters wasn't even a full-time starter in 2015. He was a backup until Willie Colon went down for the year a few weeks into the season. And even then, he was kind of mediocre that year. He played much better this past season, prior to getting injured. 

There's plenty to criticize Mac for. He really lost me with the back-to-back safeties in the draft. But unless he could magically see into the future and know that Powell and Winters would improve greatly, your criticism of these contracts is simply you b!tching for the sake of b!tching.

[#27TheDominator]

2 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said:

Johnson will never be what Mangold used to be in his early days, but last season there was no real difference between Johnson and what Mangold has been in recent years, with the sole exception of the one well-known early snap.  This was the right move, and he should be solid enough based on what we saw last year.

In regards to his current contract situation, no player worth a damn will ever agree to a long term deal for cheap, no matter how much we want them to.  There's no incentive for any player to do so, unless it's heavy on future guarantees, to cover the possibility of a major injury.  Even then, their fright of injury would have to outweigh their confidence in their own ability to make more money.  Unless he ends up completely out-of-the-league type awful this year, which of course he would not expect of himself, it would be easy enough for him to get at least a similar deal from the Jets or plenty of other teams, while very likely getting quite a bit more if he's even remotely respectable this year.  If the Jets think he's a long-term starter, they need to pony up and pay him like one.  If they're not convinced, then these two sides will never come to an agreement beyond this year.

Again, I think this is incorrect.  The kid is making $2.76M this year.  That is the 15th highest season salary for a C.  You don't think he would sign for 2 years at that or a slight raise?  Say 2/$6M?  I'm betting he would.  Teams are not lining up to start this kid, no matter what you people tell yourself.  Pocic and Martin were all handpicked to start recently and make considerably less.  A guy like Elfein could have been had way cheaper with a better pedigree.  

As with Winters, I don't hate the player or the deal and I don't even hate the idea that they have to start.  OTOH, I hate the fact that I think the team keeps leaving money on the table as constructed.

[Sperm Edwards]

What bumped Ijalana's numbers was just the fact that he started - even if it was desperation that fueled those starts - rather than Ijalana suddenly becoming a reliable, starting tackle. The amount of his raise was shocking.

Given the size of his contract on a per-year basis, I wonder if we're actually going to keep him this year. Ijalana may have traded contract size for contract security as this is the contract of someone who's betting on himself to be the starter. It's more money if they keep him, but the team is under no obligation to keep him, even for this season, since he has no guaranteed money. Then again they signed him before they signed Beachum, albeit by a day.

Should Beachum and Shell emerge as obvious starters, Ijalana should either get cut or his salary renegotiated down to half (if even that). We'll see what happens.

[#27TheDominator]

4 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

Look around the league, the majority of top 8 contracts do not belong to top 8 players at their respective positions. It's the nature of inflation in the NFL, due to the annual salary cap increases.

I get not being stoked about having him on the 1-yr deal, but don't root your argument in Winters having a top-8 paying contract, because it's mostly irrelevant.

Anyway, carry on... 

You obviously missed my point, though in fact, you are making it.  It's not even remotely irrelevant.  The Jets had every opportunity to lock Winters up at a deal that would be better than his slotting as a player.  They knew the player and already had him cheap, yet they still end up paying him more due to the "nature of inflation in the NFL."  

Remember, My Favorite Martin brought Winters into this, not me.  He said, hey "if Johnson is good we can just sign him like we did with Winters."  Well, whoop-de-damn-doo.  I don't want to pay the guy above where he slots, especially when we could have paid him less.

[Bleedin Green]

4 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Again, I think this is incorrect.  The kid is making $2.76M this year.  That is the 15th highest season salary for a C.  You don't think he would sign for 2 years at that or a slight raise?  Say 2/$6M?  I'm betting he would.  Teams are not lining up to start this kid, no matter what you people tell yourself.  Pocic and Martin were all handpicked to start recently and make considerably less.  A guy like Elfein could have been had way cheaper with a better pedigree.  

As with Winters, I don't hate the player or the deal and I don't even hate the idea that they have to start.  OTOH, I hate the fact that I think the team keeps leaving money on the table as constructed.

Johnson's contract is an RFA deal, which makes the amount mean a bit less considering neither side had much say it in, with the only possible difference being if the Jets decided to tender him at the lower undrafted amount, presenting the possibility of losing him for absolutely nothing.  None of this was even negotiated, and all Johnson really agreed to is that he wanted to play in the NFL this year.

Regardless of what may have made sense for the Jets to do, it is entirely dependent on Johnson believing he can't do any better.  Whether or not you think he can is completely irrelevant.  The only thing that would ever get Johnson to agree with that deal is being very fearful of injury and/or an ability to earn more.  Those fears would also only be calmed dependent on the Jets putting guarantees into that second year.  Basically, he would be agreeing to let the Jets use the RFA tag on him multiple times.  Don't get me wrong, I think it would be if the Jets could get him signed now for more years at the same rate, but there's just no motivation on Johnson's part for him to agree to it.

[Sperm Edwards]

2 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Again, I think this is incorrect.  The kid is making $2.76M this year.  That is the 15th highest season salary for a C.  You don't think he would sign for 2 years at that or a slight raise?  Say 2/$6M?  I'm betting he would.  Teams are not lining up to start this kid, no matter what you people tell yourself.  Pocic and Martin were all handpicked to start recently and make considerably less.  A guy like Elfein could have been had way cheaper with a better pedigree.  

As with Winters, I don't hate the player or the deal and I don't even hate the idea that they have to start.  OTOH, I hate the fact that I think the team keeps leaving money on the table as constructed.

It could have even been a 1 yr with a team option for yr 2 with a bit of a raise if he's still starting.

They had two pieces of leverage: Mangold was still on the roster and there was a draft coming up so they could tag him without WJ being able to cash in: they could demote him and just keep him around as a rover backup, or he could get cut on the last day this summer.

After this season's over, should they want to re-sign WJ for 2018/beyond, they will have no leverage at all (just like with Winters this year).

[#27TheDominator]

8 minutes ago, sourceworx said:

You're saying this with the benefit of hindsight. Powell was serviceable at best prior to 2015. He was signed to a one year deal in 2015 mainly for depth. He became a spark plug for the offense (seemingly out of nowhere) late in the season, which is why they re-signed him last year.  

Winters wasn't even a full-time starter in 2015. He was a backup until Willie Colon went down for the year a few weeks into the season. And even then, he was kind of mediocre that year. He played much better this past season, prior to getting injured. 

There's plenty to criticize Mac for. He really lost me with the back-to-back safeties in the draft. But unless he could magically see into the future and know that Powell and Winters would improve greatly, your criticism of these contracts is simply you b!tching for the sake of b!tching.

I can't possible overstate what bullsh*t this is. 

1.  Bilal Powell gained more than 50 yards twice in 2015.  Once was opening day.  He got 313 yards and 1 TD rushing. His receiving numbers were similar. He improved on his awful 2014, but it was still a fairly poor year.

2.  Brian Winters being incapable of beating out Colon is not a reason to think he is worth real money.  The team had him.  You are giving the team credit for signing players because they didn't know about the players, but the only reason they didn't know about the players is because of the team's poor talent evaluation.

3.  I did want to lock these guys up earlier.  When you can get a guy cheap, you sign him for more years.  It is true that these guys may not have signed for exact multiples of their cheap deals, but you can't tell me they all were going to demand long term guaranteed deals.  Especially when they were not touched in the 2015 offseason (in Ijalana's case the 2016 offseason too).  I hate to bring up he who shall not be named, but Maccagnan does have a history of bidding against himself.  

[Integrity28]

11 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

You obviously missed my point, though in fact, you are making it.  It's not even remotely irrelevant.  The Jets had every opportunity to lock Winters up at a deal that would be better than his slotting as a player.  They knew the player and already had him cheap, yet they still end up paying him more due to the "nature of inflation in the NFL."  

Remember, My Favorite Martin brought Winters into this, not me.  He said, hey "if Johnson is good we can just sign him like we did with Winters."  Well, whoop-de-damn-doo.  I don't want to pay the guy above where he slots, especially when we could have paid him less.

Saying "you're making my point for me" is only a proper counter, if it's true.

It's not.

Anyway, I don't disagree with anything you were previously saying. I'm just pointing out the weak spots in your argument. I'm like a pitching coach, just letting you know not to rely on off-speed stuff when you're capable of 98 mph fastballs. Ya dig?

[#27TheDominator]

25 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

What's worse is we knew them best of all, and should have had an advance idea of what these players are and aren't capable of doing. We're treating them as though they were draft picks that are unknowns until the upcoming season's over. Then he waits until their serious/permanent injury risk has passed and then has to predictably make much higher offers.

The Winters thing is still a sore point with me as well, but I've talked about it enough. The lack of foresight Maccagnan exhibited was painful, and it's a move he's presently repeating with Enunwa (whose price will surely double or more by the time we get around to extending him, when we'll repeat the pattern of transferring massive leverage to a player that previously had very little). 

Can't wait until next offseason when guys are telling me to stop crying about all the money they paid Enunwa. Why didn't I say anything last year?  I have been bitching about it since at least November.  

[Sperm Edwards]

2 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

Saying "you're making my point for me" is only a proper counter, if it's true.

It's not.

Anyway, I don't disagree with anything you were previously saying. I'm just pointing out the weak spots in your argument. I'm like a pitching coach, just letting you know not to rely on off-speed stuff when you're capable of 98 mph fastballs. Ya dig?

He's saying in waiting too long, one can - as the Jets did - end up paying a top-8 contract to a player who clearly isn't a top 8 player. That is the point, so in fairness you did help make it.  

[Sperm Edwards]

Just now, #27TheDominator said:

Can't wait until next offseason when guys are telling me to stop crying about all the money they paid Enunwa. Why didn't I say anything last year?  I have been bitching about it since at least November.  

No, it'll be a super smart deal when we "get 'er done" a year or two from now at $12m per. 

[Beerfish]

55 minutes ago, C Mart said:

How many times, other than the Miami game?  

Twice in all in a very small sample size.  Once he snapped it and no one moved and our QB got KILLED and once he did not snap i when every one moved.

[Integrity28]

3 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

He's saying in waiting too long, one can - as the Jets did - end up paying a top-8 contract to a player who clearly isn't a top 8 player. That is the point, so in fairness you did help make it.  

Top-8 pay days going to non top-8 players is commonplace. That's not a good argument, and while I acknowledged the point he's making - I most certainly didn't "make it" for him. I would think to boobs like you would understand the difference. 

The measure, in terms of contractual obligations, for criticizing the Jets for waiting to long is not weighing what Winters got against the best guards in the league - because if they got their contracts 2-3 years before him, inflation will make his seem like it's "worth" more. The measure is to weight Winters against other free agent contracts from the same FA period. Other guards, most specifically, but you can also figure out inflation when looking at other positions - and figure out rather quickly what Winters contract might have been 3 years ago. Or whatever.

It's good though... you guys are welcome to post lots of words rationalizing why you're right in being wrong. 

[Sperm Edwards]

6 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

Top-8 pay days going to non top-8 players is commonplace. That's not a good argument, and while I acknowledged the point he's making - I most certainly didn't "make it" for him. I would think to boobs like you would understand the difference. 

The measure, in terms of contractual obligations, for criticizing the Jets for waiting to long is not weighing what Winters got against the best guards in the league - because if they got their contracts 2-3 years before him, inflation will make his seem like it's "worth" more. The measure is to weight Winters against other free agent contracts from the same FA period. Other guards, most specifically, but you can also figure out inflation when looking at other positions - and figure out rather quickly what Winters contract might have been 3 years ago. Or whatever.

It's good though... you guys are welcome to post lots of words rationalizing why you're right in being wrong. 

You took a whole lot more words than I did so you should be proud.

Again, unnecessarily waiting until these guys hit free agency - and thereby setting the stage for a mediocre player to get a top 8 contract - is precisely the point.

[#27TheDominator]

3 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

Top-8 pay days going to non top-8 players is commonplace. That's not a good argument, and while I acknowledged the point he's making - I most certainly didn't "make it" for him. I would think to boobs like you would understand the difference. 

The measure, in terms of contractual obligations, for criticizing the Jets for waiting to long is not weighing what Winters got against the best guards in the league - because if they got their contracts 2-3 years before him, inflation will make his seem like it's "worth" more. The measure is to weight Winters against other free agent contracts from the same FA period. Other guards, most specifically, but you can also figure out inflation when looking at other positions - and figure out rather quickly what Winters contract might have been 3 years ago. Or whatever.

It's good though... you guys are welcome to post lots of words rationalizing why you're right in being wrong. 

Wrong again Ape.  

The measure is to measure Winters contract against what they could have gotten him for if they didn't wait until literally the last moment.  That is what I am talking about, not some mythical nflation.  

[Integrity28]

5 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

You took a whole lot more words than I did so you should be proud.

Again, unnecessarily waiting until these guys hit free agency - and thereby setting the stage for a mediocre player to get a top 8 contract - is precisely the point.

Lots of words are required, in this case, to be condescending. I could have made my point way more succinctly. It was a stylistic choice, not a dependency of the argument.

 

5 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Wrong again Ape.  

The measure is to measure Winters contract against what they could have gotten him for if they didn't wait until literally the last moment.  That is what I am talking about, not some mythical nflation.  

Go head and come up with something arbitrary so that you can type "wrong" lots more times.