HessStation Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 4 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said: What is the completion percentage against? What is the QB rating against? Those were two of the greatest seasons by CBs in history, but I do think Revis was targeted more. Yeah I wish I knew more detail. Hard to get all the breakdowns. Yards against is hard to figure too bc Yards after the catch, right? How much is on the one player etc. Coverage, different schemes, sourrounding players...etc etc. Never gonna get it perfect stats especially NFL CBs but it's good reference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 18 minutes ago, HessStation said: Which part doesn't hold up? Competition Some links would be nice too. FO wrote this in their 2010 book: To explain how dominating the 5-foot-11 Revis was in holding receivers to a 33 percent completion rate against him in coverage, while allowing a league-low 3.5 yards per attempt, the analysts at Football Outsiders had to reach across the line of scrimmage, declaring Revis' performance the equivalent of a wideout's breaking Jerry Rice's single-season record for receiving yards, or a QB's topping Dan Marino's iconic 1984 passing-yards total." http://www.footballoutsiders.com/extra-points/2010/darrelle-revis-none-shall-pass sorry for formatting, on my phone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HessStation Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 2 minutes ago, SenorGato said: Competition Some links would be nice too since they wrote this in their 2010 book: To explain how dominating the 5-foot-11 Revis was in holding receivers to a 33 percent completion rate against him in coverage, while allowing a league-low 3.5 yards per attempt, the analysts at Football Outsiders had to reach across the line of scrimmage, declaring Revis' performance the equivalent of a wideout's breaking Jerry Rice's single-season record for receiving yards, or a QB's topping Dan Marino's iconic 1984 passing-yards total." http://www.footballoutsiders.com/extra-points/2010/darrelle-revis-none-shall-pass sorry for formatting, on my phone You can click a link to reformat under the post. Takes away the green to show. This was happening to me too. Links for what? I got the data on Bailey form the same place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 3 minutes ago, HessStation said: You can click a link to reformat under the post. Takes away the green to show. This was happening to me too. Links for what? I got the data on Bailey form the same place. Ah, then note the superlatives used vs Revis’ season v those for Bailey. His best does not touch Revis’ best, no one does at CB. That said, links when you’re quoting are just a courtesy. We’re already pulling teeth here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HessStation Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 @SenorGato So I added in comp rate against, as I think I did the math right on Bailey per article. Revis wins that category. 2006 Champ Bailey allowed 40 catches and 0 Touchdowns, had 10 interceptions, 1 TD and 85 tackles, 46% comp rate against 2009 Darrelle Revis allowed 45 catches and 2 Touchdowns, had 6 interceptions, 1 TD and 54 tackles, 33% comp rate against Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HessStation Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 3 minutes ago, SenorGato said: Ah, then note the superlatives used vs Revis’ season v those for Bailey. His best does not touch Revis’ best. You leave in a dream world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 15 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said: What is the completion percentage against? What is the QB rating against? Those were two of the greatest seasons by CBs in history, but I do think Revis was targeted more. Interesting: Over the last 20 seasons, no defender has allowed a lower passer rating when targeted than Richard Sherman of the Seahawks (minimum 300 times targeted). Lowest Passer Rating Allowed When Targeted Defender – Since 1995 (Reg & Post) (Minimum 300 Times Targeted) Richard Sherman 40.9 Deion Sanders 42.3 Tyrone Braxton 47.9 Patrick Surtain 52.3 Nick Collins 53.3 John Lynch 53.8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 7 minutes ago, HessStation said: You leave in a dream world. Where the truth lives! Sorry to break it to you Hess but you throw any of your imitators into the NFL Revis dominated for a decade they’d all pale in comparison. Throwhim in their NFL where pressing and jamming was a thing and he puts up all those counting stats you guys love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HessStation Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 10 minutes ago, HessStation said: @SenorGato So I added in comp rate against, as I think I did the math right on Bailey per article. Revis wins that category. 2006 Champ Bailey allowed 40 catches and 0 Touchdowns, had 10 interceptions, 1 TD and 85 tackles, 46% comp rate against 2009 Darrelle Revis allowed 45 catches and 2 Touchdowns, had 6 interceptions, 1 TD and 54 tackles, 33% comp rate against Sorry, I want to revise this again to try and get as clear a picture as possible. According to 2007 Pro Football Prospectius Bailey's comp rate against was 38%. Still not as good as 33%. 2006 Champ Bailey allowed 40 catches and 0 Touchdowns, had 10 interceptions, 1 TD and 85 tackles, 38% comp rate against 2009 Darrelle Revis allowed 45 catches and 2 Touchdowns, had 6 interceptions, 1 TD and 54 tackles, 33% comp rate against Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HessStation Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 6 minutes ago, SenorGato said: Where the truth lives! Besides the basic stats there's always some subjectivety in analysis but I think we're getting a clearer picture. I wish I knew Bailey yards per catch against. And I'm wondering how they compute the averages. Yards after the catch too? It can get confusing which ever side you're trying to debate. A lot of other elements come into play. any way there it is. Close to numbers on Bailey's best season vs. Revis'. Besides the INT/TD return, Tackles, and TDs against, everything can be somewhat subjective....yet their number seem close enough to be very comparable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 1 minute ago, HessStation said: Sorry, I want to revise this again to try and get as clear a picture as possible. According to 2007 Pro Football Prospectius Bailey's comp rate against was 38%. Still not as good as 33%. 2006 Champ Bailey allowed 40 catches and 0 Touchdowns, had 10 interceptions, 1 TD and 85 tackles, 38% comp rate against 2009 Darrelle Revis allowed 45 catches and 2 Touchdowns, had 6 interceptions, 1 TD and 54 tackles, 33% comp rate against Lol you were really banking on that Bailey/Revis comp holding up, weren’t you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HessStation Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 6 minutes ago, SenorGato said: Lol you were really banking on that Bailey/Revis comp holding up, weren’t you? They actually do. Its actually the only cat revis wins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whodeawhodat Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 10 minutes ago, SenorGato said: Where the truth lives! Sorry to break it to you Hess but you throw any of your imitators into the NFL Revis dominated for a decade they’d all pale in comparison. Throwhim in their NFL where pressing and jamming was a thing and he puts up all those counting stats you guys love. a decade now?!?!!?! oh my.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 6 minutes ago, HessStation said: They actually do. Well in the sense that Revis’ is significantly better, sure. The league completion, TD, and INT/QBTNVR rates I was referring to are the league numbers during Sanders’ prime. That said - league passing did improve between ‘06 and ‘09, a tick up across the board except for Y/A in almost 1K more pass attempts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 1 minute ago, whodeawhodat said: a decade now?!?!!?! oh my.... Oh sorry...”only” 8 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HessStation Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 1 minute ago, SenorGato said: Well in the sense that Revis’ is significantly better, sure. 38% to 33%. Revis wins by 5 % pts Bailey allowed 5 few catches Bailey had 4 more interceptions Bailey had 31 more tackles Bailey allowed 2 fewer Touchdowns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HessStation Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 4 minutes ago, SenorGato said: Oh sorry...”only” 8 years 4 years. And interestingly in those 4 years another Defensive Back won DPOY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 Just now, HessStation said: 38% to 33%. Revis wins by 5 % pts Bailey allowed 5 few catches Bailey had 4 more interceptions Bailey had 31 more tackles Bailey allowed 2 fewer Touchdowns Yes - in a tougher league against tougher opponents. You quoted one reliable source,FO with no link, with some solid praise for the legtinately excellent Bailey’s ‘06. That same source compares Revis’ ‘09 to historic offensive seasons from inner circle league talents. Bailey’s season does not touch Revis’, insist until Jah shows it won’t change the real world reality! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HessStation Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 7 minutes ago, SenorGato said: Well in the sense that Revis’ is significantly better, sure. The league completion, TD, and INT/QBTNVR rates I was referring to are the league numbers during Sanders’ prime. That said - league passing did improve between ‘06 and ‘09, a tick up across the board except for Y/A in almost 1K more pass attempts. oh you're still trying to win the Revis was better than Sanders argument lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 2 minutes ago, HessStation said: 4 years. And interestingly in those 4 years another Defensive Back won DPOY. Nah, I was closer with 8. Some guy stealing a trinket doesn’t half the seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shevys Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 1 hour ago, Jet Nut said: You can find all the lists you want. I actually watched them play. Again, thanks for not trying to convince me. And thanks for not allowing others to have an opinion. Are you RA Jensen? Bob, is that you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HessStation Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 Just now, SenorGato said: Yes - in a tougher league against tougher opponents. You quoted one reliable source,FO with no link, with some solid praise for the legtinately excellent Bailey’s ‘06. That same source compares Revis’ ‘09 to historic offensive seasons from inner circle league talents. Bailey’s season does not touch Revis’, insist until Jah shows it won’t change the real world reality! Except I just provided you with all the data that shows, Bailey's 06 season, does, indeed touch Revis' 06 Season. In fact, it looks better on paper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 1 minute ago, HessStation said: oh you're still trying to win the Revis was better than Sanders argument lol. Well no that was won hours ago. I’m still enjoying the big analytic case you cited was Scotty D citing yards per game and leaving out basic things like conpletion rate because they kill Sanders’case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 7 minutes ago, HessStation said: Except I just provided you with all the data that shows, Bailey's 06 season, does, indeed touch Revis' 06 Season. In fact, it looks better on paper. I saw some numbers and already explained three timed why Revis’ was better. Plus you got another FO link from me putting Revis’ season well above anything Bailey ever did. Can’t say it enough - you don’t get just how dramatically better passing as a whole got while Revis played. Oh and he did this without ever being allowed to press, jam, and beat up WRs like CBs used to. One of the most physical DBs ever and he couldn’t grapple past 5 yards - STILL dominated for the better part of a decade including an off the charts ‘09. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prime21 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 4 minutes ago, SenorGato said: Well no that was won hours ago. I’m still enjoying the big analytic case you cited was Scotty D citing yards per game and leaving out basic things like conpletion rate because they kill Sanders’case. You saying that was won hours ago is the equivalent of saying the Jets had a good year because they won 5 games. Revis will never be considered better than Deion...ever. But there is always a small opposition group that goes against the grain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whodeawhodat Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 2 minutes ago, SenorGato said: Well no that was won hours ago. I’m still enjoying the big analytic case you cited was Scotty D citing yards per game and leaving out basic things like conpletion rate because they kill Sanders’case. idk man, for my generation, Sanders was the same "put him on the opp best WR and make it a 10 vs 10 game". if you tested Sanders you took your chance that it would go for 6 the other way(Revis was more of a 'just' shut down corner imo). Thing is, Sanders did that for longer and never embarrassed himself the way that revis has these past couple of years. It is funny that a lot of us thought/hoped that Revis would eventually go the Woodson route and move to safety once he lost a step... those thoughts seem silly now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 Just now, prime21 said: You saying that was won hours ago is the equivalent of saying the Jets had a good year because they won 5 games. Revis will never be considered better than Deion...ever. But there is always a small opposition group that goes against the grain. I don’t care if he’s *considered* better than Sanders. Plenty of people still consider Babe Ruth better than Bonds, but the realest know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HessStation Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 13 minutes ago, SenorGato said: Well no that was won hours ago. I’m still enjoying the big analytic case you cited was Scotty D citing yards per game and leaving out basic things like conpletion rate because they kill Sanders’case. Except what was Deion's comp rate vs. Revis'? What was it by year/career? Pretty sure they didn't have it back then. And nobody besides you and a few homer Jets fans think Revis was actually better than Deion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prime21 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 Just now, SenorGato said: I don’t care if he’s *considered* better than Sanders. Plenty of people still consider Babe Ruth better than Bonds, but the realest know. Ok lets take out the term considered. Deion Sanders IS the best CB ever. Deion Sanders IS among the best defensive players of all time. The term IS is based off numerous websites, polls and articles. If a poll was taken today, it wouldn't even be a close contest. Deion #1, and then the debate goes on about who is after him. I haven't even seen Revis as a #2 so how could he even be #1? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HessStation Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 8 minutes ago, SenorGato said: I saw some numbers and already explained three timed why Revis’ was better. Plus you got another FO link from me putting Revis’ season well above anything Bailey ever did. Can’t say it enough - you don’t get just how dramatically better passing as a whole got while Revis played. Oh and he did this without ever being allowed to press, jam, and beat up WRs like CBs used to. One of the most physical DBs ever and he couldn’t grapple past 5 yards - STILL dominated for the better part of a decade including an off the charts ‘09. Yeah, things sure did change from 06 to 09. lol They played during the same time. Bailey just started earlier and was better for a much longer period. ma lord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whodeawhodat Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 4 minutes ago, SenorGato said: I saw some numbers and already explained three timed why Revis’ was better. Plus you got another FO link from me putting Revis’ season well above anything Bailey ever did. Can’t say it enough - you don’t get just how dramatically better passing as a whole got while Revis played. Oh and he did this without ever being allowed to press, jam, and beat up WRs like CBs used to. One of the most physical DBs ever and he couldn’t grapple past 5 yards - STILL dominated for the better part of a decade including an off the charts ‘09. this is just getting more and more comical! You think that Sanders was more of a jam on the line than revis? Revis was still allowed to manhandle within 5 yards of the LOS. The last game(year?) as a Jet, he played off in fear of getting burned. Was that one of his 10 8 amazeballs seasons you were counting? Remember after that last season ending loss everyone was questioning why Revis was playing so far off and then it was announced that he had a bad wrist? it wasnt because he was slow and out of shape as reported in the preseason? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 2 minutes ago, HessStation said: Except what was Deion's comp rate vs. Revis'? What was it by year/career? Pretty sure they didn't have it back then. And nobody besides you and a few homer Jets fans think Revis was actually better than Deion. You understand that the league completion% was closer to 50% when Sanders played compared to the 60+% it has been since 2009, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whodeawhodat Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 1 minute ago, prime21 said: Ok lets take out the term considered. Deion Sanders IS the best CB ever. Deion Sanders IS among the best defensive players of all time. The term IS is based off numerous websites, polls and articles. If a poll was taken today, it wouldn't even be a close contest. Deion #1, and then the debate goes on about who is after him. I haven't even seen Revis as a #2 so how could he even be #1? i like the cut of your jib mr.sanders. I played against him for 1 yearof HS in SW FL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 9 minutes ago, HessStation said: Yeah, things sure did change from 06 to 09. lol They played during the same time. Bailey just started earlier and was better for a much longer period. ma lord. What you call “just started earlier” actually means he faced less efficient passing offenses, fewer prolific passers and less often than Revis did, fewer recievers on the field...that’s totally not a big deal THO because Bleacher Report made a list! To repeat myself...league passing just between ‘06-‘09: - More passes thrown at a - higher completion rate by a full point+ - with slightly lower INT rates and - slightly higher TD rates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HessStation Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 6 minutes ago, SenorGato said: You understand that the league completion% was closer to 50% when Sanders played compared to the 60+% it has been since 2009, right? In 1994, Sanders' best year it was 58%, in 2009 it was 60%. You're such a derp lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.