GM Mike Maccagnan

[LES]

1 hour ago, Philc1 said:

I think Woody and Chrissy know they suck at picking GMs.  Macagnan for his screwups did draft Sam who was the best qb in the 2018 draft and we do have a lot of cap room moving forward

 

and there’s no one great that’s available.  Scot McCloughan is a drunk who advised Dorsey to draft Baker Mayfield over Sam, Jerry Reese I’d be interested in but I don’t think he’s going to do anything great

 

 

Macc didn't draft Sam. He fell onto his fat lap. Had Macc not drafted Sam at 3, it would have gotten UGLY - REAL UGLY - MetLife would be ashes.

[Randy Rasmussen]

I think if you judge a GM by number of picks still in the NFL say 3 years later you have to also figure in the average no. of years in a player's career. Most players do not last long based on several factors esp injuries. Also every year there is a glut of new players who you can add to a roster cheaper. I didn't like some of Macc's early moves when he first came here. He didn't use much of the cap money he was left by Idzik well. He overpaid the wrong players like Revis etc. He made great moves to set up drafting Darnold. To me he has learned on the job and improved. I don't get rid of him.

I can see why you are a Ranger fan


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[Sperm Edwards]

2 hours ago, jgb said:

I can understand people who condemn both Macc and Bowles. I can understand people who defend one or the other. What I cannot understand is people who defend both. Mutually exclusive at this point. Either the talent (Macc) stinks or the coaching (Bowles) stinks. Most likely they both stink but it's simply not possible to say both men deserve another year IMHO.

If pressed on to give odds:

-Both gone: 20%

-Both back: 30%

-Bowles gone, Macc stays: 49.9%

-Macc gone, Bowles stays: 0.1%

The obvious problem is dumping just one is likely tantamount to an extension for the other.

Or anyway, if Bowles is the one that gets dumped it'd effectively be an extension for Macc at least until that HC flops.  

If Macc is dumped and Bowles is kept, it may not mean Bowles sticks beyond 2019, but it would seriously decrease the number of interested GMs (like in 2013). 

I think your odds are pretty close. I might have chosen different numbers - I think they'll both be back, as Bowles would be able to make a good argument that his roster sucks after Macc whiffed on a far too many FAs and draft picks. For example, the reason they were down to street FAs with the Anderson/Enunwa injuries is they had to cut the 2 WRs drafted in 2017 after one season as unused reserves. And if Pryor's release was more than just his injury; teams keep a $5m player with a 2-3 week injury, they don't cut them, especially when they're breaking in a rookie QB.

If Bowles had any brains he'd email a cumulative 4-year list of all the players Macc has traded for, signed as FAs, and drafted - complete with contract numbers for the veteran deals - just so Chrissy can see how few of them actually panned out. Then compound that by reminding him as a first year HC his team went 10-6 when there was a half-decent roster (even if the QB was just Fitz). They can't spend like that every offseason, which is why a career scout was brought in to create a pipeline, except there is no pipeline because he's so awful. Also the starting QBs he's had have been Fitz, Fitz again, McCown, rookie Darnold; while spending tons of practices & such wasting time on the likes of Petty and Hackenberg.

It's a little intellectually dishonest, because Bowles isn't good either and coaches like a big puss, but it wouldn't be totally wrong either. A stacked team with a really good or great QB and a flawed HC will win more games over time than a lousy team with a good HC. Hell, Barry Switzer was able to win a SB; Mike Martz and Jeff Fisher and Bill Callahan all HC'd teams to superbowls; Herm and Rex coached a bunch of teams to the playoffs. The coach is important, which is why he should go, but he can make a strong case that the GM is more important. A meh HC can always hire decent coordinators and position coaches. 

Based on that, your 4th scenario should be a whole lot higher than 0.1%, and your first should be higher than 20%. Crazy that after assembling 3 straight loser rosters, that anyone even guess Macc has an 80% chance of sticking while Bowles has a 70% chance of being dumped, and I don't even disagree with your guesses.

[Philc1]

3 hours ago, LES said:

Macc didn't draft Sam. He fell onto his fat lap. Had Macc not drafted Sam at 3, it would have gotten UGLY - REAL UGLY - MetLife would be ashes.

Sam is by far the best qb from this draft.  If it took luck for the giants and browns to both pass on him so what Tom Brady was passed on 198 times before he fell in Scott Pioli’s lap

[Philc1]

2 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

The obvious problem is dumping just one is likely tantamount to an extension for the other.

Or anyway, if Bowles is the one that gets dumped it'd effectively be an extension for Macc at least until that HC flops.  

If Macc is dumped and Bowles is kept, it may not mean Bowles sticks beyond 2019, but it would seriously decrease the number of interested GMs (like in 2013). 

I think your odds are pretty close. I might have chosen different numbers - I think they'll both be back, as Bowles would be able to make a good argument that his roster sucks after Macc whiffed on a far too many FAs and draft picks. For example, the reason they were down to street FAs with the Anderson/Enunwa injuries is they had to cut the 2 WRs drafted in 2017 after one season as unused reserves. And if Pryor's release was more than just his injury; teams keep a $5m player with a 2-3 week injury, they don't cut them, especially when they're breaking in a rookie QB.

If Bowles had any brains he'd email a cumulative 4-year list of all the players Macc has traded for, signed as FAs, and drafted - complete with contract numbers for the veteran deals - just so Chrissy can see how few of them actually panned out. Then compound that by reminding him as a first year HC his team went 10-6 when there was a half-decent roster (even if the QB was just Fitz). They can't spend like that every offseason, which is why a career scout was brought in to create a pipeline, except there is no pipeline because he's so awful. Also the starting QBs he's had have been Fitz, Fitz again, McCown, rookie Darnold; while spending tons of practices & such wasting time on the likes of Petty and Hackenberg.

It's a little intellectually dishonest, because Bowles isn't good either and coaches like a big puss, but it wouldn't be totally wrong either. A stacked team with a really good or great QB and a flawed HC will win more games over time than a lousy team with a good HC. Hell, Barry Switzer was able to win a SB; Mike Martz and Jeff Fisher and Bill Callahan all HC'd teams to superbowls; Herm and Rex coached a bunch of teams to the playoffs. The coach is important, which is why he should go, but he can make a strong case that the GM is more important. A meh HC can always hire decent coordinators and position coaches. 

Based on that, your 4th scenario should be a whole lot higher than 0.1%, and your first should be higher than 20%. Crazy that after assembling 3 straight loser rosters, that anyone even guess Macc has an 80% chance of sticking while Bowles has a 70% chance of being dumped, and I don't even disagree with your guesses.

I just don’t see who is available that is better that would actually come here as GM

 

Bowles clearly a mannequin with a clipboard is an upgrade but there’s not a lot of good GM’s out there 

[bealeb319]

Compare the roster to what it was when he first took over most positions are a good bit better. Offensive line is worse but those guys were ageing

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[C Mart]

Gil Brandt‏ @Gil_Brandt

2015 Packers draft:

1. Damarious Randall - traded

2. Quinten Rollins - IR

3. Ty Montgomery - traded

4. Jake Ryan - IR

5. Brett Hundley - traded

6. Aaron Ripkowski - released

6. Christian Ringo - released

6. Kennard Backman - released

 

Gil Brandt @Gil_Brandt 

Since taking over for Ted Thompson 9 months ago, Brian Gutekunst has traded or released 10 of his predecessor's draft picks

2 first-rounders

1 second-rounder

1 third-rounder

1 fourth-rounder

2 fifth-rounders

2 sixth-rounders

1 seventh-rounder

[#27TheDominator]

10 minutes ago, bealeb319 said:

Compare the roster to what it was when he first took over most positions are a good bit better. Offensive line is worse but those guys were ageing

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Disagree.   They are better at CB.  Dline is worse, LB is worse, S?  Push.  OL?  Worse.  RB?  Ivory is probably better than anything they have now.  Which of these guys is starting on that team? That was a "rebuilding" year designed to load the roster up for 2015, with a ton of cap space and the talent is at best similar.

[C Mart]

Jason La Canfora‏ @JasonLaCanfora

Jags picked in top 10 from 08-16:

08 D.Harvey (8th) 52 NFL G, 8 sacks

09 Monroe (8) start OT 7 yrs

10 Alualu (10th) 21.5 career sacks

11 Gabbert (10) backup QB

12 Blackmon (5) 20 G 6TD

13 Joeckel (3) 50 NFL G

14 Bortles (3) nuff said

15 Fowler (3) just traded

16 Ramsey (5)

17 Fournette (4)

Jason La Canfora‏ @JasonLaCanfora 

The only star player the Jags landed with those 10 top 10 picks was Jalen Ramsey in 2016. He is a blue chip player. But vast majority of these guys desperately overdrafted. Most made no impact or had meaningful NFL careers

[jetscrazey]

7 minutes ago, C Mart said:

Jason La Canfora‏ @JasonLaCanfora

Jags picked in top 10 from 08-16:

08 D.Harvey (8th) 52 NFL G, 8 sacks

09 Monroe (8) start OT 7 yrs

10 Alualu (10th) 21.5 career sacks

11 Gabbert (10) backup QB

12 Blackmon (5) 20 G 6TD

13 Joeckel (3) 50 NFL G

14 Bortles (3) nuff said

15 Fowler (3) just traded

16 Fournette (4)

Jalen Ramsey?  Maybe it was with a pick acquired via trade, but still.

Top 10 picks can be messed up, but I also have a tough time giving GMs major credit for successes there.  They're SUPPOSED to always hit on those picks.  It's like the Chris Rock bit about fathers boasting about how they're active in raising their kids.

Maccagnan may have "hit" on Jamal Adams, and of course Darnold.  Even if we give him a pass on Leonard Williams and Darron Lee, outside of the first round he really has been bad.  I don't think landing Darnold is enough to forgive all these other horrific draft picks.

[C Mart]

7 minutes ago, jetscrazey said:

Jalen Ramsey?  Maybe it was with a pick acquired via trade, but still.

Top 10 picks can be messed up, but I also have a tough time giving GMs major credit for successes there.  They're SUPPOSED to always hit on those picks.  It's like the Chris Rock bit about fathers boasting about how they're active in raising their kids.

Maccagnan may have "hit" on Jamal Adams, and of course Darnold.  Even if we give him a pass on Leonard Williams and Darron Lee, outside of the first round he really has been bad.  I don't think landing Darnold is enough to forgive all these other horrific draft picks.

Yeah he forgot him..I updated

[C Mart]

 

 

Andrew Siciliano ‏Verified account..

Over 1/3 of 1st round of 2015 @NFL Draft now traded or released.

#3 Dante Fowler, Jr.

#4 Amari Cooper

#9 Ereck Flowers

#12 Danny Shelton

#18 Marcus Peters

#19 Cameron Erving

#26 Breshad Perriman

#28 Laken Tomlinson

#29 Phillip Dorsett

#30 Damarious Randall

#31 Stephone Anthony

[Patriot Killa]

1 hour ago, Philc1 said:

I just don’t see who is available that is better that would actually come here as GM

 

Bowles clearly a mannequin with a clipboard is an upgrade but there’s not a lot of good GM’s out there 

Reggie McKenzie. A very capable GM who has been done dirty by the Raiders now that Gruden came along.

[bealeb319]

Disagree.   They are better at CB.  Dline is worse, LB is worse, S?  Push.  OL?  Worse.  RB?  Ivory is probably better than anything they have now.  Which of these guys is starting on that team? That was a "rebuilding" year designed to load the roster up for 2015, with a ton of cap space and the talent is at best similar.

You would take Calvin Pryor and gilchrist over maybe and Adams? Our lb this year though not spectacular has been pretty solid. Dline I will give you and rb too ivory I thought was pretty good

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[rangerous]

On 10/29/2018 at 2:32 PM, Sperm Edwards said:

Except he's not adept at wheeling and dealing. Most of the time he doesn't get a deal done, and agents recently listed the Jets as among the 5 least-prepared teams when it comes time for negotiations. His FA pickups are mostly garbage, just like most of his draft picks. 

His success rate hovers around 10%. The only "big" names he signs are those looking to collect one last time and then coast. That's why his "fans" need to manufacture it as a positive that we can dump his veterans after 2 years (as though he's structuring things so much differently and better than any other GM). 

Adams was not worth the 6th overall pick. Not to a team missing a handful of positions at higher tier(s). A safety that high, if you ever rationalize taking one that highly at all, is for a team that already has a QB and at least 2 among: QB, edge rusher, LT, CB1, playmaker WR and/or RB. Then and only then can you indulge in a luxury pick that high on a 2nd-3rd tier position like safety, RT, etc.

His 2016 draft set the team back 2 seasons by putting all his QB-prospect eggs in the Christian Hackenberg basket. Shell is not even average (maybe at best, since he has a good game once in a while, but so do plenty of below-average players). His ILB is also just ok even in his best season by far. I couldn't objectively say for certain that he's worth the 5th year option. His year 3 reputation is coasting on a week 1 PFF ranking where we knew their signals on offense. Jenkins is also below average; the kind of player who'd only be an acceptable starter if amply surrounded by greatness. His best attribute is how much better he is than the player taken a round ahead of him. Punter? That's not a starting position. Our punter is fine not remotely great; it's not something I readily give out kudos for picking up.

It's too early to say anything about the 2018 draft. If you don't like people trashing players after 8 games, then don't talk them up like they're studs and sure thing future studs after 8 games either. Before the end of 2016 people were saying such things about Juston Burris, and Lorenzo Mauldin the year before that. I think Darnold will be adequate at worst, and look for him to take a major leap forward next year, but I'm a fan and we really don't know. 

He is atrocious. The Jets will never sniff at a SB, or even being a realistic contender, with him as the GM. Never, ever, ever. He's absolutely horrible at this. There should be no conflict. 

 

yep.  what you said.  he has to do way better selecting players to fill the jets holes if they are to have a winning program.  even tanny drafted better and he was a bean counter.

[jgb]

6 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

The obvious problem is dumping just one is likely tantamount to an extension for the other.

Or anyway, if Bowles is the one that gets dumped it'd effectively be an extension for Macc at least until that HC flops.  

If Macc is dumped and Bowles is kept, it may not mean Bowles sticks beyond 2019, but it would seriously decrease the number of interested GMs (like in 2013). 

I think your odds are pretty close. I might have chosen different numbers - I think they'll both be back, as Bowles would be able to make a good argument that his roster sucks after Macc whiffed on a far too many FAs and draft picks. For example, the reason they were down to street FAs with the Anderson/Enunwa injuries is they had to cut the 2 WRs drafted in 2017 after one season as unused reserves. And if Pryor's release was more than just his injury; teams keep a $5m player with a 2-3 week injury, they don't cut them, especially when they're breaking in a rookie QB.

If Bowles had any brains he'd email a cumulative 4-year list of all the players Macc has traded for, signed as FAs, and drafted - complete with contract numbers for the veteran deals - just so Chrissy can see how few of them actually panned out. Then compound that by reminding him as a first year HC his team went 10-6 when there was a half-decent roster (even if the QB was just Fitz). They can't spend like that every offseason, which is why a career scout was brought in to create a pipeline, except there is no pipeline because he's so awful. Also the starting QBs he's had have been Fitz, Fitz again, McCown, rookie Darnold; while spending tons of practices & such wasting time on the likes of Petty and Hackenberg.

It's a little intellectually dishonest, because Bowles isn't good either and coaches like a big puss, but it wouldn't be totally wrong either. A stacked team with a really good or great QB and a flawed HC will win more games over time than a lousy team with a good HC. Hell, Barry Switzer was able to win a SB; Mike Martz and Jeff Fisher and Bill Callahan all HC'd teams to superbowls; Herm and Rex coached a bunch of teams to the playoffs. The coach is important, which is why he should go, but he can make a strong case that the GM is more important. A meh HC can always hire decent coordinators and position coaches. 

Based on that, your 4th scenario should be a whole lot higher than 0.1%, and your first should be higher than 20%. Crazy that after assembling 3 straight loser rosters, that anyone even guess Macc has an 80% chance of sticking while Bowles has a 70% chance of being dumped, and I don't even disagree with your guesses.

Completely agree with you from logic point of view. For my odds I tried to put myself in Woody’s head. By the way this it what it's like in there, bad dubbing and all:

 

[detectivekimble]

On 10/29/2018 at 11:22 AM, RSJ said:

You cant keep a GM or coach of a team that has been 5-11 three straight years.


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[jgb]

11 minutes ago, detectivekimble said:

 

I envy Vince McMahon. Talk about a dude doing something he absolutely loves and with such passion.

[Philc1]

5 hours ago, Patriot Killa said:

Reggie McKenzie. A very capable GM who has been done dirty by the Raiders now that Gruden came along.

He’s still the raiders GM.  Are you also interested in hiring Belichick to replace Bowles?

[Patriot Killa]

50 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

He’s still the raiders GM.  Are you also interested in hiring Belichick to replace Bowles?

My point is he will be gone soon with how things are going. Don’t be a dick head towards me.

[#27TheDominator]

15 hours ago, bealeb319 said:

You would take Calvin Pryor and gilchrist over maybe and Adams? Our lb this year though not spectacular has been pretty solid. Dline I will give you and rb too ivory I thought was pretty good

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Maybe?  That's about how I feel.  Pryor has washed out now, but he was a decent enough prospect. You could take Adams over Pryor, but Maye or Middleton probably aren't starting over Landry.  Gilchrist was a Maccagnan signing.  I know people love to squawk about Maye, but he barely plays and hasn't shown much. 

The 2014 Jets were a rebuilding roster - like 2017.  Still, I count around 11 positions that were better off.  I don't rant about it because both teams sucked, but it sure isn't a feather in Maccagnan's cap.