Who Was The Best\Worst FA Signing By The Jets?

[RobR]

1 hour ago, nyjunc said:

Mickey Shuler was a second team all pro with Ken O'Brien as his QB, Heath never made any all pro team with Ben as his QB.

 

Putting that aside, you still cannot comprehend what I have said. I never bashed Heath, I have said over and over again that you can bash the evaluation and picks but the trade itself was a good one.  That's just a fact and you can ignore that all you want with your made up replies.

 

You do realize that not one poster agrees with you because it was a terrible trade. One of the top 10 worst in our history and that's saying a lot.

Answer this one question for me and I'll let it go. Was the Dwayne Robertson trade a good one that only sucked because of our poor evaluation of said prospect? 

[RobR]

Time to go necro here. 

Props to @TomShane

[nyjunc]

12 hours ago, New York Mick said:

O’Brien was a good QB. 

No, no he wasn't.  He is very overrated by jet fans and even if you think he was a good QB he's still nowhere near Ben.

12 hours ago, RobR said:

You do realize that not one poster agrees with you because it was a terrible trade. One of the top 10 worst in our history and that's saying a lot.

Answer this one question for me and I'll let it go. Was the Dwayne Robertson trade a good one that only sucked because of our poor evaluation of said prospect? 

Does that matter? I don't care if anyone else agrees.  I've explained it over and over, if people cannot understand it then that's on them.

 

The Jets panicked in 2003 after losing Coles and wanted to make a splash by moving up.  It didn't work out.  That move had nothing to do with this one.  For that move to be made we had to lose a top WR at the time, we didn't lose anything on 2005- we actually gained and 2 of the players we drafted because of that trade made all pro teams for us.  The player you guys wanted never made a single one- you know the guy who was one of the best TEs of the last two decades,?

[EM31]

Neil O'Donnell and those two bookend tackles were pretty bad.

[Gibby]

On 2/12/2019 at 1:55 PM, Philc1 said:

If he doesn’t tear his Achilles in 1999 he wins the Super Bowl 

On the bright side- we got to see Tom Tupa throw a Touchdown pass. 

[Philc1]

On 2/14/2019 at 9:44 AM, #27TheDominator said:

Technically a trade.  McCareins was an RFA, that the Titans tendered.  The Jets gave up a 2nd for him

A 2nd for that guy oofah 

[Philc1]

51 minutes ago, Gibby said:

On the bright side- we got to see Tom Tupa throw a Touchdown pass. 

When I was watching that game and Vinny got injured and carted off the field I’m like season over then the friggin punter threw a td next play

[Philc1]

15 hours ago, nyjunc said:

Mickey Shuler was a second team all pro with Ken O'Brien as his QB, Heath never made any all pro team with Ben as his QB.

 

Putting that aside, you still cannot comprehend what I have said. I never bashed Heath, I have said over and over again that you can bash the evaluation and picks but the trade itself was a good one.  That's just a fact and you can ignore that all you want with your made up replies.

 

Lemme guess?  Heath Miller stole your lunch money when you was a kid?

[nyjunc]

5 hours ago, Philc1 said:

Lemme guess?  Heath Miller stole your lunch money when you was a kid?

It's amazing how you guys just don't understand.  If we kept the pick we were not taking Heath Miller, that trade did not cost us a decent TE.  Heath had nothing to do with that trade.

[Bleedin Green]

By junk's logic, there has never been a bad signing, trade, or draft pick in history. Because, you see, the teams tried to make those moves that they made, so that makes them good moves, regardless of how awful the players themselves may be.

To be clear, that can be extrapolated to the obviously related situation that there has never been a poor decision in the history of humankind, because those are the decisions that were made, which makes them good.

 

[nyjunc]

1 hour ago, Bleedin Green said:

By junk's logic, there has never been a bad signing, trade, or draft pick in history. Because, you see, the teams tried to make those moves that they made, so that makes them good moves, regardless of how awful the players themselves may be.

To be clear, that can be extrapolated to the obviously related situation that there has never been a poor decision in the history of humankind, because those are the decisions that were made, which makes them good.

 

Only Jet fans can call a trade bad where we targeted 2 players, drafted those 2 players plus got 2 extra picks(one which helped land an all pro player) and a starting player.

We truly have the dumbest fanbase in sports

[Panzer Division Marduk]

Jason Taylor.

[Philc1]

On 2/15/2019 at 8:49 PM, Bleedin Green said:

By junk's logic, there has never been a bad signing, trade, or draft pick in history. Because, you see, the teams tried to make those moves that they made, so that makes them good moves, regardless of how awful the players themselves may be.

To be clear, that can be extrapolated to the obviously related situation that there has never been a poor decision in the history of humankind, because those are the decisions that were made, which makes them good.

 

A first for Doug Jolley and a kicker would have been a great trade if Jolley morphed into a young Tony Gonzalez

[nyjunc]

4 hours ago, Philc1 said:

A first for Doug Jolley and a kicker would have been a great trade if Jolley morphed into a young Tony Gonzalez

It wasn't a first for Doug Jolley and a kicker. We moved back about 18 spots or so, still drafted our top two targets, acquired a vet starter, added multiple picks which helped us move up to draft an all pro player.

The trade itself was excellent, the execution was not good with regards to taking the kicker.

[Sperm Edwards]

Though tagged, Mo was technically a FA not under contract when he was awarded that dumbass contract instead of trading him. 

I don't know how much worse a FA contract can get than 2 years $37MM for Mo's 2016-2017 seasons.

[Bleedin Green]

12 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Though tagged, Mo was technically a FA not under contract when he was awarded that dumbass contract instead of trading him. 

I don't know how much worse a FA contract can get than 2 years $37MM for Mo's 2016-2017 seasons.

Between that and Revis' 2 years $39MM, it's always great to hear how amazing the team's contracts supposedly are under Maccagnan, because of how quickly they end up cutting everyone he signs, which is... good???

[WayneChrebet80]

Probably two Idzik gems:

Dmitri Patterson and Mike Goodson

Patterson literally went AWOL in training camp. 

[RobR]

1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Though tagged, Mo was technically a FA not under contract when he was awarded that dumbass contract instead of trading him. 

I don't know how much worse a FA contract can get than 2 years $37MM for Mo's 2016-2017 seasons.

I don't think you can put a price tag on it when this question goes back for decades. 3Mil back then is about 15 Mil now or even more.

Neil Odonnell's contract set this team back for a half decade and was the richest awarded at the time. Mo's was just another over payment for a defensive linemen.

[Philc1]

4 hours ago, WayneChrebet80 said:

Probably two Idzik gems:

Dmitri Patterson and Mike Goodson

Patterson literally went AWOL in training camp. 

People here liked both signings

[Sperm Edwards]

On 2/17/2019 at 11:28 PM, RobR said:

I don't think you can put a price tag on it when this question goes back for decades. 3Mil back then is about 15 Mil now or even more.

Neil Odonnell's contract set this team back for a half decade and was the richest awarded at the time. Mo's was just another over payment for a defensive linemen.

He wasn't a good signing, but how did he set the team back for half a decade?

The 1st year of his contract the team wasn't doing crap anyway. There were no QBs to draft that year anyway. The QB to draft the year after that opted - last minute, in March - to stay in school when Parcells wouldn't guarantee taking him #1 after seeing how long it took Bledsoe to be SB-caliber after similarly skipping his senior year.

The 2nd year of the O'Donnell signing the team was 9-7 (and may have been 10-6 if not for Parcells moronically trying a Leon Johnson HB option for no reason and no need).

The 3rd year of his signing (with O'Donnell then off the team outright) they were 12-4 in the reg season and had a 10-0 in the 3rd Q of the AFCCG. As in, they were able to get out from under the contract after 2 years (a common Maccagnan defense) to sign another capable veteran QB in Testaverde.

 

In 1996 the cap limit was just over $40MM. O'Donnell was $5MM/year, making him ~1/8 of the cap, equivalent to about $22MM in 2018. If you want to do the cap inflation thing, then at least be fair about it and do it for both players. The 2018 cap equivalent for Mo would be 14% higher, or just over $42MM for his 2 years on a contract averaging $19MM/year. So apples to apples, factoring in equivalent inflation for both, tell me which is worse:

• 2018 equivalent of $42MM for Mo's 2016-2017 seasons ($37MM actual paid)
• 2018 equivalent of $47MM for O'Donnell's 1996-1997 seasons ($10.75MM actual paid)

Considering the average cost of their respective positions, and how much actual use the team got (O'Donnell at least had 1 average season after tripping on some sideline chalk  in pregame warmups)? 

Mo was clearly worse. I'm not sure the team got 1 really good game out of him in 2 seasons.

[RobR]

53 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

He wasn't a good signing, but how did he set the team back for half a decade?

The 1st year of his contract the team wasn't doing crap anyway. There were no QBs to draft that year anyway. The QB to draft the year after that opted - last minute, in March - to stay in school when Parcells wouldn't guarantee taking him #1 after seeing how it took Bledsoe after similarly skipping his senior year.

The 2nd year of the O'Donnell signing the team was 9-7 (and may have been 10-6 if not for Parcells moronically trying a Leon Johnson HB option for no reason and no need).

The 3rd year of his signing (with O'Donnell then off the team outright) they were 12-4 in the reg season and had a 10-0 in the 3rd Q of the AFCCG. As in, they were able to get out from under the contract after 2 years (a common Maccagnan defense) to sign another capable veteran QB in Testaverde.

 

In 1996 the cap limit was just over $40MM. O'Donnell was $5MM/year, making him ~1/8 of the cap, equivalent to about $22MM in 2018. If you want to do the cap inflation thing, then at least be fair about it and do it for both players. The 2018 cap equivalent for Mo would be 14% higher, or just over $42MM for his 2 years on a contract averaging $19MM/year. So apples to apples, factoring in equivalent inflation for both, tell me which is worse:

• 2018 equivalent of $42MM for Mo's 2016-2017 seasons ($37MM actual paid)
• 2018 equivalent of $47MM for O'Donnell's 1996-1997 seasons ($10.75MM actual paid)

Considering the average cost of their respective positions, and how much actual use the team got (O'Donnell at least had 1 average season after tripping on some sideline chalk  in pregame warmups)? 

Mo was clearly worse. I'm not sure the team got 1 really good game out of him in 2 seasons.

Well, since you put it that way?

[#27TheDominator]

I actually don't think O'Donnell was that bad.  I think Parcells had some kind of irrational hatred of him.

Kevan Barlow was a necessary evil.  That team needed a back. People were still acting like Curtis was coming back after the 3rd preseason game.  Leon was a nice piece, but they needed a bigger back.  They actually seemed to have preferred Lee Suggs who they traded Derrick Strait for, but Suggs failed the physical and they moved on to Barlow.  Much like they were also going after Shaun Rogers when they ended up with Jenkins.

[nyjunc]

25 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I actually don't think O'Donnell was that bad.  I think Parcells had some kind of irrational hatred of him.

Kevan Barlow was a necessary evil.  That team needed a back. People were still acting like Curtis was coming back after the 3rd preseason game.  Leon was a nice piece, but they needed a bigger back.  They actually seemed to have preferred Lee Suggs who they traded Derrick Strait for, but Suggs failed the physical and they moved on to Barlow.  Much like they were also going after Shaun Rogers when they ended up with Jenkins.

O'Donnell wasn't good but Parcells hated him, didn't trust him at all.  His lack of trust showed up in that Lions week 17 win and in game where he allowed Leon Johnson and Ray Lucas (who wasn't a QB on that team) to throw passes.  Leon's was picked off in the end zone (though if there was replay it would have been overturned as the Lions DB didn't have control when he went out of bounds) and Ray's was picked off when we were in FG range in a game we lost by 3.

[#27TheDominator]

3 hours ago, nyjunc said:

O'Donnell wasn't good but Parcells hated him, didn't trust him at all.  His lack of trust showed up in that Lions week 17 win and in game where he allowed Leon Johnson and Ray Lucas (who wasn't a QB on that team) to throw passes.  Leon's was picked off in the end zone (though if there was replay it would have been overturned as the Lions DB didn't have control when he went out of bounds) and Ray's was picked off when we were in FG range in a game we lost by 3.

Parcells won the super bowl with 2 QBs that weren't any better than O'Donnell.  The Jets got tremendous play from Testaverde in 1998, but really, Testaverde was probably not as good overall.  He pretty much sucked as a QB evaluator - that is why the Jets ended up starting Rick Mirer for multiple games.  

[nyjunc]

1 hour ago, #27TheDominator said:

Parcells won the super bowl with 2 QBs that weren't any better than O'Donnell.  He made it there with another (Eason).  The Jets got tremendous play from Testaverde in 1998, but really, Testaverde was probably not as good overall.  He pretty much sucked as a QB evaluator - that is why the Jets ended up starting Rick Mirer for multiple games.  

O'Donnell wasn't as good as Simms, maybe he was close to hostetler.

Testaverde was easily the most talented among these QBs and in 1998 he played up to his talent with the best season in Jets history for a QB.  Unfortunately he was getting old then had the Achilles injury or he could have been really good for a bunch of years.

I do agree about Parcells and QBs yet he always gets quoted around draft time for his rules in drafting a QB.

[Savage69]

1 hour ago, #27TheDominator said:

Parcells won the super bowl with 2 QBs that weren't any better than O'Donnell.  He made it there with another (Eason).  The Jets got tremendous play from Testaverde in 1998, but really, Testaverde was probably not as good overall.  He pretty much sucked as a QB evaluator - that is why the Jets ended up starting Rick Mirer for multiple games.  

 When was Eason on a Tuna coached team?? He was out of football by 1990 did you mean Bledsoe??

[Savage69]

On 2/12/2019 at 11:27 AM, Bocajetfan said:

From back in the day Johnny Sample Best was a major contributor 

in Super Bowl III

Worst was O’Donnell

Johnny Samples first year as a pro was on the World Champion Colts and his last was on the World Champion Jets..

[Savage69]

On 2/12/2019 at 11:27 AM, Bocajetfan said:

From back in the day Johnny Sample Best was a major contributor 

in Super Bowl III

Worst was O’Donnell

 

[#27TheDominator]

54 minutes ago, Savage69 said:

 When was Eason on a Tuna coached team?? He was out of football by 1990 did you mean Bledsoe??

Bledsoe was better than O'Donnell.  I misspoke.  I mixed up two super bowl losers - the '85 Pats that got crushed by the Bears had Grogan and Eason.  The '96 Pats who let notorious choker Brett Favre win a super bowl had Parcells and Bledsoe.  Totally my fault.