Scoop24 Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 Honestly it depends on compensation. If it’s for like a 3rd I’m on board easy. We could talk about a 2nd cause it will still allow me to potentially Go after a Franchise OT but I’m definitely not doing a 1st rather just draft Jeudy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kleckineau Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 Remember Santonio Holmes? Good times! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 3 hours ago, Scoop24 said: Honestly it depends on compensation. If it’s for like a 3rd I’m on board easy. We could talk about a 2nd cause it will still allow me to potentially Go after a Franchise OT but I’m definitely not doing a 1st rather just draft Jeudy. I'd also like a Ferrari for $10,000. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 9 hours ago, GREENBEAN said: Right. Good post. And it's making me think actually. Ya wanna know something? It's really interesting how close we are while being pretty far away on Darnold. I happen to think Sam is going to be a very good Top QB in this league. The problem is that it may take him a little bit longer than we would like. That's how I see it anyway. He's super young and that is a legit factor. I know many do not like to lean on that one and I don't use it too much as a talking point but its true. And I hear ya on the weapons and protection thing, but that's actually true too. You make a great point with getting Sam the weapons he needs so an actual assessment can be made on the guy. With that concept being the basis for the argument, signing/trading for guys like obj or Diggs etc seems much more logical. I still feel like they, especially Beckham can actually stunt a lung QB's growth with all their bellyaching though. But I get it. So let me ask you a question. If Sam is showing slow but steady incremental progress over the next two years, but not top 10 type of stuff, does that mean he is not going to ever be elite? Would you want to cut ties and move on? Serious question. Brother, I sure hope you're right about Darnold. Here's my fear. He is young and the offensive supporting cast is B-A-D. These are facts beyond dispute. But that doesn't mean he's good. It only means that he might not be as bad as his play/stats indicate. We really don't know that much about him, which is the #1 criminal offense of the Macc regime. Darnold has started 26 games and we are still talking about his potential. The discussion about him has gone nowhere since the 2018 draft. This is terrible no matter what becomes of him. If he doesn't become a QB1, then we've wasted years we should've been considering other options. If he does become a QB1, then we've wasted years of his cheap rookie contract. I'd say the decision needs to happen by 2021 draft what we're doing with Darnold. That's when extension discussions usually begin and that means we either need to: Commit Give him credible training camp competition Keep hoping and let Darnold play without security of a LT deal Move on. #2 is my least favored option because then you're half-in/half-out with too many resources allocated to QB. #3 also stinks because it means we are no closer than we've been for years on what exactly Darnold is and can be. Sad that the primary goal of 2020 is the same as it's been for the last two seasons: evaluate whether Darnold is the man or not. But that's where we are. Whether I have faith in Gase to get us an answer to this question is another topic for another day. I'd like to know either #1 or #4 by end of this coming season. To answer your question specifically, if he improved only incrementally and doesn't show a leap in year 3 or 4 then I'd say the odds are very much against him ever being elite. I can count the number of QBs that took >4 years as starters to become upper-quartile on one hand. Odds would not be with him. Without said leap, committing to him would look very much like the Bengals extending Dalton in 2014 IMHO. I would be against that. Congratulations on forcing me to substitute my typical debate style of mockery and snark with Sperm-esque verbosity. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GREENBEAN Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 2 hours ago, jgb said: Brother, I sure hope you're right about Darnold. Here's my fear. He is young and the offensive supporting cast is B-A-D. These are facts beyond dispute. But that doesn't mean he's good. It only means that he might not be as bad as his play/stats indicate. We really don't know that much about him, which is the #1 criminal offense of the Macc regime. Darnold has started 26 games and we are still talking about his potential. The discussion about him has gone nowhere since the 2018 draft. This is terrible no matter what becomes of him. If he doesn't become a QB1, then we've wasted years we should've been considering other options. If he does become a QB1, then we've wasted years of his cheap rookie contract. I'd say the decision needs to happen by 2021 draft what we're doing with Darnold. That's when extension discussions usually begin and that means we either need to: Commit Give him credible training camp competition Keep hoping and let Darnold play without security of a LT deal Move on. #2 is my least favored option because then you're half-in/half-out with too many resources allocated to QB. #3 also stinks because it means we are no closer than we've been for years on what exactly Darnold is and can be. Sad that the primary goal of 2020 is the same as it's been for the last two seasons: evaluate whether Darnold is the man or not. But that's where we are. Whether I have faith in Gase to get us an answer to this question is another topic for another day. I'd like to know either #1 or #4 by end of this coming season. To answer your question specifically, if he improved only incrementally and doesn't show a leap in year 3 or 4 then I'd say the odds are very much against him ever being elite. I can count the number of QBs that took >4 years as starters to become upper-quartile on one hand. Odds would not be with him. Without said leap, committing to him would look very much like the Bengals extending Dalton in 2014 IMHO. I would be against that. Congratulations on forcing me to substitute my typical debate style of mockery and snark with Sperm-esque verbosity. hahaha. Well making me cry all day isn't the best option either man. For sure. I totally get much of what you're saying. The thing with Sam, as much as this will sound like typical excuses, is that his situation is unique in many ways. He's literally the youngest starting QB ever. So his time line will be different than anyone else before him. The mono piece is just ridiculous but it's also real. How many QB's are so young, catch mono and have as porous of an o line as he has had? Add to it, two offensive systems, carousel of skill position players and more injuries than any one team has dealt with in recent memory. 11 players on IR or something like that. Not that I don't agree with the overall points you're making. I do. I think a good way to look it why someone would consider giving Darnold a bit more rope is how bad Siemian and Falk really were within the same system. Neither of them could do a single thing where Sam was at least competitive. We see Elite QB's wilt all the time in the face of legit pressure, like Brady against the Giants or Mahomes in this last Super Bowl. It makes most guys pedestrian very quickly. Sam has done decently well under almost constant duress. That's kind of why I see more in him that maybe you do. He had a better year 2 than yearner 1 under worse circumstances. So all of that said, I think you're not that far off with your list of potentialities for Sam. And that you motivate the staff to build around him as quickly as possible because no matter how you slice it, we have all but wasted 2 years of his rookie deal outside of him getting valuable starting experience and "overcoming" adversity. That TD pass to Crowder late in the Skins game might have been one of the finest passes I've ever seem a Jets QB throw. The talent is there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyJersey Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 23 hours ago, jetstream23 said: Remind me why the Browns would trade a Top 5 WR away from a team that's trying to develop its own young QB? Jets: He'd be a great weapon for Darnold. Browns: Let's get him away from Mayfield. Because they think the Jets are bigger schmucks than they are? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyJersey Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 23 hours ago, MaxAF said: Belichick has no fear of taking on head cases and either making them great or dumping them. Randy Moss was one of the first of many. He is the only one that worked out. Chad Johnson was too stupid to run anything but go routes and posts, AB lasted a game. Sure they could take a flier on OBJ, but the Pats wouldnt give up any meaningful assets for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Embrace the Suck Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 On 2/20/2020 at 2:48 AM, jgb said: Psst... you know you have to be the highest bidder to get him, right? Psst... Yeah, but I wouldn't start high either. You know they can reject an offer and ask for more, right? Oh, that's right it's a dynamic process... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Truth Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 On 2/19/2020 at 11:38 PM, GREENBEAN said: Wait... you came to a message board and don't want to read posts? What are we doing here dude? Maybe take the nails out of your eyes and you would understand. Travis Bickle meets Hellraiser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoJoTownsell1 Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 9 hours ago, Kleckineau said: Remember Santonio Holmes? Good times! I am sure you were hating that acquisition in 2010 when he was helping us get to the AFC Championship game. Either way, OBJ is significantly more talented than Holmes ever was. Trading a pick for OBJ (depending on that pick) wouldn't be the worst move, but the reality is that I highly doubt Gase/Douglas would want to trade for a person like OBJ which is also a defensible position. There are definitely pros and cons to trading for OBJ so I am OK with whatever they decide to do. With that said, if we decide Robby isn't worth 13 million a year, and we can't trade for Diggs or sign cooper there will be a huge void at WR heading into next year for Darnold. It would force us to take a WR at 11, which is tricky since rookie WRs aren't exactly the most reliable plus it prevents us from drafting an elite OT at 11. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 1 hour ago, Embrace the Suck said: Psst... Yeah, but I wouldn't start high either. You know they can reject an offer and ask for more, right? Oh, that's right it's a dynamic process... Yeah I‘ve never negotiated before thanks for the tip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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