Wilder V Fury II

[Greenbloodblitz]

40 minutes ago, Paradis said:

it was over the second that Fury punch blew out his ear drum. 

It looks like he got caught with his mouth open and not only busted his jaw but popped his eardrum. Strange ..because for a huge man, Fury really doesn't look like he hits hard.  Sloppy fight either way..

[14 in Green]

19 minutes ago, Greenbloodblitz said:

 There is nothing like a heavyweight championship title fight!!!

 I give this one an 8 for excitement.

 I give it a 2 for actual boxing... mostly cause they were wearing gloves.

Sloppy....unskilled... dare I say embarrassing?

I wouldn't be surprised if Mike Tyson announced he was making a comeback and challenging Fury for the titles. Tyson, Holyfield, and Lewis at their age right now would take either of these guys out in one round. They all must have been frothing-at-the-mouth at ringside. I feel embarrassed for them.

Listen I know these guys were definitely in a real fight but did they even train? They both came in 30 lbs heavier than the last fight. Deontay Wilder has absolutely no head movement At all! Can't move his feet can't get in rhythm. Tyson Fury looks like a wrestler ..pretending to be a boxer..like WWE.

SMH... is this really the best they can offer!?  Go check out Tyson vs Ruddock 1 and 2... Go check out the Bowe vs Holyfield trilogy.. anybody ever heard of Ali vs Frazier!? I...II...III?

Sorry guys I know it was a heavyweight championship fight but to me these guys looked like f****** amateurs. But props to the dude that told me about the Stream. I enjoyed watching it I just wish there was better boxing these days

My grandfather had me lace them up the first time when I was about 7 years old. He handled fighters in South Brooklyn for years. I had a few matches in the gym, but my grandmother and my mom, drew the line there. Later on, I found out why, (long story).

Anyway, the point of the story is you sound like him, then my dad, and now I talk about the current generation of fighters... back then "ours" were always better, LOL.

Here's the problem with that. There is not a single sport where the athletes of today aren't better then the athletes of the prior generations. It's just a fact. The training, nutrition, mental preparation... not to mention they're bigger, stronger and faster.

You want to talk technical skills? Jimmy Young was a vastly superior boxer then Wilder will ever be, but who would you bet on if they matched up today?

[Paradis]

17 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

couldn't have been more wrong

Sad but true.... One could point to the injuries as a reason, but I seemed liked from the get go that Wilder's defense didn't show up... he let Fury land way to many early on... hence the blown ear and jaw. 

[Greenbloodblitz]

18 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

My grandfather had me lace them up the first time when I was about 7 years old. He handled fighters in South Brooklyn for years. I had a few matches in the gym, but my grandmother and my mom, drew the line there. Later on, I found out why, (long story).

Anyway, the point of the story is you sound like him, then my dad, and now I talk about the current generation of fighters... back then "ours" were always better, LOL.

Here's the problem with that. There is not a single sport where the athletes of today aren't better then the athletes of the prior generations. It's just a fact. The training, nutrition, mental preparation... not to mention they're bigger, stronger and faster.

You want to talk technical skills? Jimmy Young was a vastly superior boxer then Wilder will ever be, but who would you bet on if they matched up today?

 Total appreciation for the story about your grandfather ..that's awesome!

I agree for the most part that athletes of today are just better trained in better shape have vastly improve their knowledge of conditioning and nutrition excetera...but what I just watched was two guys that have no clue how to box!

They both came in grossly overweight and out-of-shape. Neither of them had good balance or footwork especially Wilder. He'll watching this fight really made me miss Tuesday night fights with Sean O'Grady and Al Albert.. Remember that!?  What a show!!!

 Lol please don't think I'm coming off prickly I just know the sport. The two guys that just fought for the heavyweight championship were taking terrible angles, throwing off-balance , open handed punches, no combinations... and Wilder has one punch and that's it. Fury looks impressive cuz he switches to Southpaw, but he's not good in either stance really. For such a huge man he really doesn't have power and I honestly didn't see any punch tonight land flush.

[Paradis]

18 minutes ago, Greenbloodblitz said:

It looks like he got caught with his mouth open and not only busted his jaw but popped his eardrum. Strange ..because for a huge man, Fury really doesn't look like he hits hard.  Sloppy fight either way..

Kind of just eluded to the same thing... Wilder's defense was non-existent, and it cost him. 

[14 in Green]

27 minutes ago, Greenbloodblitz said:

 Total appreciation for the story about your grandfather ..that's awesome!

I agree for the most part that athletes of today are just better trained in better shape have vastly improve their knowledge of conditioning and nutrition excetera...but what I just watched was two guys that have no clue how to box!

They both came in grossly overweight and out-of-shape. Neither of them had good balance or footwork especially Wilder. He'll watching this fight really made me miss Tuesday night fights with Sean O'Grady and Marv Albert Remember that!?  What a show!

Lol, yeah, I do, and what about the fights on Wide World of Sports? I remember watching Ali- Norton, and a bunch of others, title fights included. My favorite was Ray Mancini, whose dad my grandfather knew well, along with another old trainer, Jimmy Banfi all on Saturday afternoon.. Then you had the early HBO fights, and what was probably the best title fight I've ever seen, Arguello vs Pryor. That was the one where Aaron drank from the "mystery bottle"...

I get your point about these guys tonight, but you have to rember Fury came in at what? 6'9" 270? The man moves well for that size, and must hit like a truck. Wilder has always been the ultimate one trick pony, but lets face it, that right of his is one of the best weapons we've ever seen. I never look to the heavyweights for a "tech" fight, especially since they're no longer in the 2-210 lb range. These guys are monstrous.

[Darnold Schwarzenegger]

Wilder got rocked early and never recovered. He was on wavy legs early 

[14 in Green]

21 minutes ago, Paradis said:

Kind of just eluded to the same thing... Wilder's defense was non-existent, and it cost him. 

Wilder has that phenomenal right, but very little boxing skill. After I got home, I heard a guy on ESPN ringside saying he's never had to fight with his back on the ropes. Aazing that could be true about a champion with over 40 fights. I guess that does back up @Greenbloodblitz comment about today's fighters though...

[RutgersJetFan]

1 hour ago, Paradis said:

Sad but true.... One could point to the injuries as a reason, but I seemed liked from the get go that Wilder's defense didn't show up... he let Fury land way to many early on... hence the blown ear and jaw. 

Hard matchup to call based on the first fight, I wouldn’t kill yourself over it. Completely different strategy from Fury’s corner and you have to attribute the switch to Kronk as that was 100% a Kronk style strategy; staying being a consistent jab to set up straight power shots. Fury was either hanging on him or staying just out of range, which meant Wilder had to take some early risks to try to draw him in, which only played into Fury’s gameplan even more. Much different than their first fight where Fury was just slipping and tapping him. The bigger man should definitely be the bully if you can be. 

I hope these guys meet at some point down the line again but for now it’s nice to see the ghost of Emanuel Steward is still alive in the ring and the fact that it’s through his son is pretty ******* cool.

[RutgersJetFan]

Also Fury pretending to lick the blood was incredible. Reminded my of when BJ Penn licked blood off his gloves. 

[Paradis]

36 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Hard matchup to call based on the first fight, I wouldn’t kill yourself over it. Completely different strategy from Fury’s corner and you have to attribute the switch to Kronk as that was 100% a Kronk style strategy; staying being a consistent jab to set up straight power shots. Fury was either hanging on him or staying just out of range, which meant Wilder had to take some early risks to try to draw him in, which only played into Fury’s gameplan even more. Much different than their first fight where Fury was just slipping and tapping him. The bigger man should definitely be the bully if you can be. 

I hope these guys meet at some point down the line again but for now it’s nice to see the ghost of Emanuel Steward is still alive in the ring and the fact that it’s through his son is pretty ******* cool.

Can’t argue with any of this. Totally different Fury in the ring tonight. He deserved everybit of the W. 

 now if AJ can finally step the to the stage, things will get interesting 

[King P]

Props to Fury. He was screwed in the 1st fight, made sure to take the fight out the judges hands this fight.

Wilder was done after the 4th. His legs were completely gone and they never came back. The stoppage was a good one. Fury was smothering his own work, 1 more shot would have ended it forreal.

For all Wilder's power, his technique is piss poor. He becomes too dependent on landing his money shot, but did nothing to set it up. From the beginning, I said he needed to jab to the body and follow upstairs with the right. He doesn't set up any of his punches, despite having a pretty good jab.

Wilder also should never come in at 230. That was a detriment. He needs to come in at his usual weight of 215-220. 225 at the most

[Irish Jet]

Unbelievable.

Fury went away from his usual style in big fights. He hasn’t been that aggressive since he was a sloppy kid. He’s cut out the sloppiness and just brought a f*cking storm to Wilder.

A genuinely great heavyweight. Incredible performance.

[Irish Jet]

I don't think the immediate rematch makes much sense for either guy, certainly not before Fury-Joshua, a fight that could sell out Wembley 10x over. Too much to lose for Wilder, who'll be a big underdog and nothing really to gain for Fury who honestly has two victories even if he didn't get that first decision. 

Fury's comeback from being a 400lb+ drug addicted alcoholic is something else. Doesn't feel that long ago when he was talking trash in that state and most people were laughing him off. Now he's reclaimed his spot and more. Amazing he retained all that agility after putting his body through hell. 

[14 in Green]

Every time I think os Stewart/ Kronk, I think of Tommy the Hitman

[JustEndTheSuffering]

8 hours ago, Greenbloodblitz said:

 There is nothing like a heavyweight championship title fight!!!

 I give this one an 8 for excitement.

 I give it a 2 for actual boxing... mostly cause they were wearing gloves.

Sloppy....unskilled... dare I say embarrassing?

I wouldn't be surprised if Mike Tyson announced he was making a comeback and challenging Fury for the titles. Tyson, Holyfield, and Lewis at their age right now would take either of these guys out in one round. They all must have been frothing-at-the-mouth at ringside. I feel embarrassed for them.

Listen I know these guys were definitely in a real fight but did they even train? They both came in 30 lbs heavier than the last fight. Deontay Wilder has absolutely no head movement At all! Can't move his feet can't get in rhythm. Tyson Fury looks like a wrestler ..pretending to be a boxer..like WWE.

SMH... is this really the best they can offer!?  Go check out Tyson vs Ruddock 1 and 2... Go check out the Bowe vs Holyfield trilogy.. anybody ever heard of Ali vs Frazier!? I...II...III?

Sorry guys I know it was a heavyweight championship fight but to me these guys looked like f****** amateurs. But props to the dude that told me about the Stream. I enjoyed watching it I just wish there was better boxing these days ... and by the way I called Fury by knockout in the 8th. Damn I was close LOL

Well to be fair I think part of the reason it was so sloppy was because after the first time Wilder got knocked down he pretty much stumbles around the ring clutching to Fury who let him do that. If I were Fury I would’ve pushed Wilder off me and then popped him. 

[Beerfish]

Time for me to get totally trashed in this thread.

The heavyweight division is still a tomato can fest, we are so desperate for the heavyweight div to be relevant again we are happy to watch both guys like this that would be routine knock out victims along the way for some of the really good heavyweights over the years.

Come at me bros.

[RutgersJetFan]

7 hours ago, King P said:

Props to Fury. He was screwed in the 1st fight, made sure to take the fight out the judges hands this fight.

Wilder was done after the 4th. His legs were completely gone and they never came back. The stoppage was a good one. Fury was smothering his own work, 1 more shot would have ended it forreal.

For all Wilder's power, his technique is piss poor. He becomes too dependent on landing his money shot, but did nothing to set it up. From the beginning, I said he needed to jab to the body and follow upstairs with the right. He doesn't set up any of his punches, despite having a pretty good jab.

Wilder also should never come in at 230. That was a detriment. He needs to come in at his usual weight of 215-220. 225 at the most

Hard for extra weight to matter for better or worse with a busted eardrum. That Wilder still threw punches with a wrecked ear for rounds upon rounds after is one of the most impressive displays of heart I’ve ever seen. Guys with busted ears usually quit way earlier and rightfully so. 

[slimjasi]

I feel like an idiot. 

I loved Fury heading into the rematch and was going to put some money on him, but everyone I talked to liked Wilder and I chickened out. 

[Hael]

11 hours ago, 14 in Green said:

My grandfather had me lace them up the first time when I was about 7 years old. He handled fighters in South Brooklyn for years. I had a few matches in the gym, but my grandmother and my mom, drew the line there. Later on, I found out why, (long story).

Here's the problem with that. There is not a single sport where the athletes of today aren't better then the athletes of the prior generations. It's just a fact. The training, nutrition, mental preparation... not to mention they're bigger, stronger and faster.

 

Your grandfather was right.  Boxing is unlike most sports and honestly the level of fighters in the 60s and 70s was considerably higher than today.  Part of that is selection effects (boxing used to be the most popular sport in the world, and now its probably not even top ten).  But by every metric things aren’t better.  The best punching power stats (ppi) were set decades ago.  George Foreman could come in age 40 something and bully Holyfield, who in turn would make someone like Wilder look like an infant.  

Fury is an interesting fighter though.  He does not suck and could probably hold his own in any era.  No he’s not beating Ali or Tyson, or even a Lennox Lewis but for a guy that size with that long reach, his handspeed, head movement and overall agility is quite impressive.  He’s probably the first heavyweight in a long time who’s level can be said to be respectable relative to the old days.

[Greenbloodblitz]

4 hours ago, Beerfish said:

Time for me to get totally trashed in this thread.

The heavyweight division is still a tomato can fest, we are so desperate for the heavyweight div to be relevant again we are happy to watch both guys like this that would be routine knock out victims along the way for some of the really good heavyweights over the years.

Come at me bros.

 No need to be trash for stating the truth

[14 in Green]

1 hour ago, Hael said:

Your grandfather was right.  Boxing is unlike most sports and honestly the level of fighters in the 60s and 70s was considerably higher than today.  Part of that is selection effects (boxing used to be the most popular sport in the world, and now its probably not even top ten).  But by every metric things aren’t better.  The best punching power stats (ppi) were set decades ago.  George Foreman could come in age 40 something and bully Holyfield, who in turn would make someone like Wilder look like an infant.  

Fury is an interesting fighter though.  He does not suck and could probably hold his own in any era.  No he’s not beating Ali or Tyson, or even a Lennox Lewis but for a guy that size with that long reach, his handspeed, head movement and overall agility is quite impressive.  He’s probably the first heavyweight in a long time who’s level can be said to be respectable relative to the old days.

He loved the sport.

When other kids were going to Yankee Stadium, or Shea, he was taking me to Sunnyside or Madison Square Gardens for things like Nino Benvenuti vs Emile Griffith, lol.

The one group of "modern" fighters he loved was that Sugar Ray Leonard, Tommy Hearns, Hector "Macho Man " Camacho, Marvin Hagler, Roberto Duran bunch. It's funny though, he loved Duran and his "hands of Stone", but I think Camacho was his favorite, skill wise. He'd really get excited watching him. The guy knew how to box so well, he just didn't have the power those others did...

This thread is bringing back a lot of nice memories for me.

[Losmeister]

14 hours ago, Greenbloodblitz said:

It looks like he got caught with his mouth open and not only busted his jaw but popped his eardrum. Strange ..because for a huge man, Fury really doesn't look like he hits hard.  Sloppy fight either way..

please just stop. your arrogance is just unbearable..  

[Losmeister]

Someone actually mentioned the name razor ruddock as in " a good fighter"

ffs, guys. stop with the romance.

of course Ali/FRazier/Foreman set teh standard...   Holmes was solid.

Holyfiled solid and Lennox too...    

Mike Tyson? fraud.

Klitcjhko- zzzzzzzz

I like WIlder and Fury both vs Holyfiled and LEnnox as well as late Foreman.

 

 

[RutgersJetFan]

2 hours ago, Hael said:

Your grandfather was right.  Boxing is unlike most sports and honestly the level of fighters in the 60s and 70s was considerably higher than today.  Part of that is selection effects (boxing used to be the most popular sport in the world, and now its probably not even top ten).  But by every metric things aren’t better.  The best punching power stats (ppi) were set decades ago.  George Foreman could come in age 40 something and bully Holyfield, who in turn would make someone like Wilder look like an infant.  

Fury is an interesting fighter though.  He does not suck and could probably hold his own in any era.  No he’s not beating Ali or Tyson, or even a Lennox Lewis but for a guy that size with that long reach, his handspeed, head movement and overall agility is quite impressive.  He’s probably the first heavyweight in a long time who’s level can be said to be respectable relative to the old days.

I’ll bite. I think Fury at his best (Wlad and last night) takes Lennox in his prime. I am a die hard Lennox fan and I have actually met him a few times and he’s hella inspiring, but styles make fights and it’s tough to imagine a scenario where Lennox is able to get his jab going against a guy Fury’s size with his style of movement. Fun to think about though. I actually think Fury takes almost everyone from that core group of the 90’s. Can’t emphasize this enough but you don’t realize how big he is until you’re standing next to him. 

[Vader]

20 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

I’ll bite. I think Fury at his best (Wlad and last night) takes Lennox in his prime. I am a die hard Lennox fan and I have actually met him a few times and he’s hella inspiring, but styles make fights and it’s tough to imagine a scenario where Lennox is able to get his jab going against a guy Fury’s size with his style of movement. Fun to think about though. I actually think Fury takes almost everyone from that core group of the 90’s. Can’t emphasize this enough but you don’t realize how big he is until you’re standing next to him. 

seriously, george foreman was a monster of a man in his day — at 6’4”. Lennox was 6’5".

Fury has 4-5” on guys that are 6’4”-6’5”, and his quick as a cat, agile, can box, and there’s a lot more power than it seems coming from that dad bod.

total clinic last night.

 

[14 in Green]

30 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

I’ll bite. I think Fury at his best (Wlad and last night) takes Lennox in his prime. I am a die hard Lennox fan and I have actually met him a few times and he’s hella inspiring, but styles make fights and it’s tough to imagine a scenario where Lennox is able to get his jab going against a guy Fury’s size with his style of movement. Fun to think about though. I actually think Fury takes almost everyone from that core group of the 90’s. Can’t emphasize this enough but you don’t realize how big he is until you’re standing next to him. 

It seems to me that Lennox Lewis never got the credit he deserved.

He was really, really good, and seemed like a class act. I'm not sure about this, but if I remember correctly in his prime, he never had a "nemesis" the way Ali, Frazier and Foreman, or Tyson and Holyfield had each other. I can't remember him fighting anyone I thought had anywhere near his talent, or ever being in a "mega fight." That's not his fault, of course, but I think it hurts him in a historical sense.

Larry Holmes was another one like that... great fighter, wrong time.

Thoughts? Am I simply forgetting, and completely wrong about this?

[14 in Green]

4 hours ago, slimjasi said:

I feel like an idiot. 

I loved Fury heading into the rematch and was going to put some money on him, but everyone I talked to liked Wilder and I chickened out. 

Meh

I wouldn't be too hard on yourself. I had a feeling about Fury also, but let's be honest. In the back of your mind before the fight, you weren't thinking about a Wilder right hand to the temple? I know I was.

That's what's great about heavyweights, and boxing in general. One, just one big punch can turn everything upside down.

Remember Buster Douglas?

[Losmeister]

3 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

Remember Buster Douglas?

unfortunately yes.

agree about lennox and holmes. good classic heavyweights. 

 

 

[Greenbloodblitz]

50 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

It seems to me that Lennox Lewis never got the credit he deserved.

He was really, really good, and seemed like a class act. I'm not sure about this, but if I remember correctly in his prime, he never had a "nemesis" the way Ali, Frazier and Foreman, or Tyson and Holyfield had each other. I can't remember him fighting anyone I thought had anywhere near his talent, or ever being in a "mega fight." That's not his fault, of course, but I think it hurts him in a historical sense.

Larry Holmes was another one like that... great fighter, wrong time.

Thoughts? Am I simply forgetting, and completely wrong about this?

I couldn't stand Lennox Lewis back in the day but he actually pulled out a lot of wins against a lot of really good Fighters. He could adjust his style to each individual and was a very smart fighter in the ring.

Go to YouTube if you want to check out a classic  I think he actually lost .....Lennox Lewis vs Merciless Ray Mercer!

[Greenbloodblitz]

1 hour ago, Losmeister said:

please just stop. your arrogance is just unbearable..  

Ha! This coming from a guy whose screen name translates Spanish / German as "The Master"....lmao

[Losmeister]

5 minutes ago, Greenbloodblitz said:

Ha! This coming from a guy whose screen name translates Spanish / German as "The Master"....lmao

it was a nickname given to me 30 yrs ago, shrug...

lauding the 90's as some sorta boxing halcyon days? i will never agree to that. 

[RutgersJetFan]

2 hours ago, 14 in Green said:

It seems to me that Lennox Lewis never got the credit he deserved.

He was really, really good, and seemed like a class act. I'm not sure about this, but if I remember correctly in his prime, he never had a "nemesis" the way Ali, Frazier and Foreman, or Tyson and Holyfield had each other. I can't remember him fighting anyone I thought had anywhere near his talent, or ever being in a "mega fight." That's not his fault, of course, but I think it hurts him in a historical sense.

Larry Holmes was another one like that... great fighter, wrong time.

Thoughts? Am I simply forgetting, and completely wrong about this?

From the general public maybe, in the boxing community Lennox and Holmes get their due for sure. I suppose the general sports media shorts both but that's the way it's always been with casual boxing reporters/fans. Lewis had a premier run but for a long time in a good era reality is everyone ducked him including Holyfield and Tyson, later on everyone saw why. Holmes came at the tail end of the golden era for HW's and yeah, probably got caught in an in-between era like the Klitschkos did. In hindsight a lot of the guys Holmes beat in his run have been recognized in hindsight. Those guys that Tyson and Holyfield fought in the 80s/90s are a lot better than casual fans give them credit for (Spinks, Douglas, Bowe...etc).

Current era of HW is similar. Even the second tier guys like Joseph Parker and Ortiz are very respected in the inner circles.

[RutgersJetFan]

2 hours ago, Vader said:

seriously, george foreman was a monster of a man in his day — at 6’4”. Lennox was 6’5".

Fury has 4-5” on guys that are 6’4”-6’5”, and his quick as a cat, agile, can box, and there’s a lot more power than it seems coming from that dad bod.

total clinic last night.

 

People are ripping on his body and hey, fair game he takes it all in stride, but just to keep things in context he's a guy that ballooned up to 400 pounds, got his weight back down and has some pretty insane cardio. At his size to be able to do what he does should not be possible. By any measure except not looking like DK Metcalk the guy is one of the top freak athletes (if you want to lump fighters in as athletes) in the world.

[RutgersJetFan]

Eddie Hearn has been making the rounds today saying let's make the fight for summer and they are cool with a 50/50 split. We'll see. Hearn is a bit of a snake and Fury for sure is going to want another fight soon. Fingers crossed but after the last few years I don't trust the Joshua camp at all to make a fight like this.