PFF: Jets in danger of wasting Sam Darnold

[Villain The Foe]

On 3/24/2020 at 6:22 PM, Beerfish said:

Any time your GM does nothing in the oline dept and nothing in the WR weapon dept before drafting the QB you risk wasting a QB talent.

It's been proven time and again, guys who look promising and get drafted to teams that ignore the lines get ass kicked.

Medium to meh QBs that get drafted to already built teams do well early.  (Dak prescott, mark sanchez)

Facts. I'll also factor in providing them with a running game. 

If you can provide a rookie QB a stable offense to where the offense isnt based on not just their ability, but the requirement to carry the offense then you're in great shape. 

Our best run over the last 20 years came with arguably the worst QB we had in Mark Sanchez. Some would argue "worst" when thinking of guys like Geno Smith and Christian Hackenberg (Hack was so bad I dont even count that dude), but my point is this. The only QB that we drafted that we built a complete team around was Mark Sanchez. So in many ways we got to see Sanchez full potential because we didnt have to rely on him to win. We won games despite having Sanchez at QB many times. Sanchez did have a tendency to step up his game during big games. 

 

I will say it 1000 times, the "QB being everything in the NFL is a fallacy" as the teams who win superbowls have more than just a QB. They have coaching, usually a top 10 to top half defense, respectable weapons as options, a solid Oline to protect the QB and to establish a running game. 

 

 

Dak Prescott is a very good example of how a guy can be good if you put enough around him for him to reach his potential. His potential isnt elite, but the Cowboys, atleast on paper is a talented enough to to be in a SB conversation...just like the Jets were in 2010. However, the kicker is that you need to have the right coaching. If not, then you'll have situations like what the hell happened with Cleveland last year as well as the Cowboys. 

[DarnoldSchwarzeneggar369]

This is my biggest concern with Joe D's approach. I understand what he is trying to do but at the same time, I worry that we are not putting Sam in the best position to succeed at a critical time in his development/career.

So what exactly is JD not doing to help Darnold so far? He completely revamped the OL, replaced RA and still has the entire offseason to make moves, plus this thing called the draft. But please tell us what JD should be doing instead of revamping the OL like he has?


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[ScarletKnight89]

30 minutes ago, DarnoldSchwarzeneggar369 said:

So what exactly is JD not doing to help Darnold so far? He completely revamped the OL, replaced RA and still has the entire offseason to make moves, plus this thing called the draft. But please tell us what JD should be doing instead of revamping the OL like he has?


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Again, everyone understands that the off season isn't over yet. Nobody is saying that he hasn't added talent to the team. It's his first off season as GM and everyone understands that. But I am commenting on where the Jets are right now. Sam Darnold isn't in his 1st year. He's in his 3rd, and his development is at a critical point. He needs talent around him ASAP. We are not going to fill every need we have via the draft. Some of you think it's that simple. It's not. There's going to be lots of guys drafted who don't make it in the NFL. 

He's revamped the O-Line by signing two players (McGovern, and Van Roten) who are good. George Fant is just a new face. His career track record has been that of a crappy player up to this point. Fact. Alex Lewis is a below average guard up to this point in his career. Just because somebody is a new face, doesn't mean they are any good. We have to get better at the tackle position and at receiver. I'm sure you probably will say "the draft!" and maybe you'll be right, but I'll be more convinced when I see those draft picks come in and perform at the NFL level. Until then, I have my concerns about the talent around Sam Darnold and I think that's fair.

[Skeet Ulrich]

Again - just because people don't like the messenger, they ignore the message which is completely accurate.

 

How, exactly, have the Jets nurtured Darnold? They've let the OL fall into utter disrepair and imported no impact level offensive weapons for him to utilize.

 

I don't think Darnold's anything special but they haven't given the kid any type of help.

 

[Jetsfan80]

12 minutes ago, ScarletKnight89 said:

George Fant is just a new face. His career track record has been that of a crappy player up to this point. Fact. 

Spending up to $20M per on a RT who has injured the same knee twice, and who the team that drafted him refused to hand a measley $13M 5th-year option, would have been an equally big risk.  

All FA's are major risks.  At least he's shown that he's trying to make improvements.  

[NYDreamer]

I'm going to say the name Mark Sanchez...His first 2 years with the Jets we surrounded him with veteran WR's, a solid offensive line and a premier running back.  For what it is worth that philosophy brought us to 2 AFC championship games.  The team dismantled that after the second year and we learned what Mark was, a product of a good team around him.  That is okay.  The point being what I see now is building the O Line around Sam, get him some veteran WR's.  We already have a tremendous rb.  The results hopefully will improve.

[ScarletKnight89]

51 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Spending up to $20M per on a RT who has injured the same knee twice, and who the team that drafted him refused to hand a measley $13M 5th-year option, would have been an equally big risk.  

All FA's are major risks.  At least he's shown that he's trying to make improvements.  

Yeah but there's a huge difference between George Fant (a bad player), and Jack Conklin (a good player). The Titans didn't pick up his 5th year option because he was coming off an ACL injury. But he proved last year he was healthy and played really well. 

All FA's are risks. But Conklin has been a far superior player to George Fant.

[Jets723]

2 minutes ago, ScarletKnight89 said:

Yeah but there's a huge difference between George Fant (a bad player), and Jack Conklin (a good player). The Titans didn't pick up his 5th year option because he was coming off an ACL injury. But he proved last year he was healthy and played really well. 

All FA's are risks. But Conklin has been a far superior player to George Fant.

I wasn’t a huge Conklin fan especially with the injury history.  Overall I like what JD did with the OL.  As for Fant I think he will be motivated.  From what he said  recently he is probably tired of people saying what a bad signing he was lol.  The guy had potential let’s see if we can bring it out of him 

[ScarletKnight89]

1 minute ago, Jets723 said:

I wasn’t a huge Conklin fan especially with the injury history.  Overall I like what JD did with the OL.  As for Fant I think he will be motivated.  From what he said  recently he is probably tired of people saying what a bad signing he was lol.  The guy had potential let’s see if we can bring it out of him 

I'm fine with Joe D. taking a chance on a player like George Fant. But when people talk about "Joe D. revamping the O-Line." it needs to be put into perspective. McGovern, and Van Roten were nice moves. I like that. But George Fant is just a new face. That doesn't necessarily mean he's any good. So far in his career he hasn't been. Hopefully he puts it together with the Jets.

[Philc1]

I think we’re drafting Jeudy so no

[Philc1]

10 minutes ago, ScarletKnight89 said:

Yeah but there's a huge difference between George Fant (a bad player), and Jack Conklin (a good player). The Titans didn't pick up his 5th year option because he was coming off an ACL injury. But he proved last year he was healthy and played really well. 

All FA's are risks. But Conklin has been a far superior player to George Fant.

I wanted Conklin too but I wouldn’t call Fant bad.  He’s an OK right tackle

[jgb]

JEST MOAR HATERZ!

[Jets723]

5 minutes ago, ScarletKnight89 said:

I'm fine with Joe D. taking a chance on a player like George Fant. But when people talk about "Joe D. revamping the O-Line." it needs to be put into perspective. McGovern, and Van Roten were nice moves. I like that. But George Fant is just a new face. That doesn't necessarily mean he's any good. So far in his career he hasn't been. Hopefully he puts it together with the Jets.

Yes but he isn’t done.  He still obviously is gonna address the OL more in the draft.  

[Jetsfan80]

18 minutes ago, ScarletKnight89 said:

Yeah but there's a huge difference between George Fant (a bad player), and Jack Conklin (a good player). The Titans didn't pick up his 5th year option because he was coming off an ACL injury. But he proved last year he was healthy and played really well. 

So what does that prove?  That the Titans think he's done with his knee problems or that it remained a major risk?  Can't be both at the same time.  After all, they had plenty of opportunities to franchise or re-sign him.  

[82nd Airborne]

This is the judgement year in my opinion for Sam.  One, he needs to stay healthy and play the entire season.  Second, he needs to make smart decisions and not throw stupid interceptions.  Third and probably most important, he needs to improve his QBR. 

 

[ScarletKnight89]

20 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

So what does that prove?  That the Titans think he's done with his knee problems or that it remained a major risk?  Can't be both at the same time.  After all, they had plenty of opportunities to franchise or re-sign him.  

Yes, it was a risk. So he played out the final year of his contract and had a great year. He parlayed that into being the top tackle on the market and signed a nice contract with the Browns. The Titans felt he wasn't worth picking up the 5th year option. They also were going to have decisions to make with Mariota and Henry as well. There's tons of other circumstances at play besides the theory you've thrown out that "they didn't like his medical records". That's all i'm saying.

[Jetsfan80]

6 minutes ago, ScarletKnight89 said:

Yes, it was a risk. So he played out the final year of his contract and had a great year. He parlayed that into being the top tackle on the market and signed a nice contract with the Browns. The Titans felt he wasn't worth picking up the 5th year option. They also were going to have decisions to make with Mariota and Henry as well. There's tons of other circumstances at play besides the theory you've thrown out that "they didn't like his medical records". That's all i'm saying.

Additional theory:  No one should be mimicking/envious of whatever the Cleveland Browns are doing.  

[14 in Green]

17 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Additional theory:  No one should be mimicking/envious of whatever the Cleveland Browns are doing.  

Can’t wait for later this season when “well, we can’t blame the loss to the Browns on Sam. Look at all the talent on that team... if Sam had that, he’d be putting up numbers like Baker is too.”

[Jets723]

26 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Additional theory:  No one should be mimicking/envious of whatever the Cleveland Browns are doing.  

Hey at least one Thing they do good are those fine commercials ? 

[Jetsfan80]

14 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

Can’t wait for later this season when “well, we can’t blame the loss to the Browns on Sam. Look at all the talent on that team... if Sam had that, he’d be putting up numbers like Baker is too.”

No, this just sounds like the last thing you say to yourself before you fall asleep every night.  

[Villain The Foe]

40 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Additional theory:  No one should be mimicking/envious of whatever the Cleveland Browns are doing.  

Their rebuild is going much better than ours. Only a hater would deny that. 

[Villain The Foe]

20 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

Can’t wait for later this season when “well, we can’t blame the loss to the Browns on Sam. Look at all the talent on that team... if Sam had that, he’d be putting up numbers like Baker is too.”

Im going to bookmark this page so when it happens I can pull this haha. 

[Jetsfan80]

12 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Their rebuild is going much better than ours. Only a hater would deny that. 

Yes.  Swimmingly.

 

Quotable Freddie Kitchens: Baker Mayfield wasn’t sharpest tool in the shed in Cleveland Browns’ loss at Tampa Bay

[Jets723]

2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Yes.  Swimmingly.

 

Quotable Freddie Kitchens: Baker Mayfield wasn’t sharpest tool in the shed in Cleveland Browns’ loss at Tampa Bay

Apparently Kitchens was to blame for that despite all the talent the little guy had around him ? 

[ScarletKnight89]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Additional theory:  No one should be mimicking/envious of whatever the Cleveland Browns are doing.  

So if the Browns draft or sign a player we should assume it's just a bad move?

Additional theory: You can say the same thing about the Jets.

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, ScarletKnight89 said:

So if the Browns draft or sign a player we should assume it's just a bad move?

It hasn't been proven wrong.

[ScarletKnight89]

Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

It hasn't been proven wrong.

This doesn't make any sense. The Browns have been a poorly run franchise but that doesn't mean every player they've signed or drafted has been bad. 

You're throwing out theories to make your point about Conklin and there is just no evidence to support it. But I guess we'll watch Conklin play this year and find out for sure. If you are right, i'll give you credit for it.

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, ScarletKnight89 said:

This doesn't make any sense. The Browns have been a poorly run franchise but that doesn't mean every player they've signed or drafted has been bad. 

You're throwing out theories to make your point about Conklin and there is just no evidence to support it. But I guess we'll watch Conklin play this year and find out for sure. If you are right, i'll give you credit for it.

I'm sure Conklin will play just fine as long as he's healthy.  

[Jets723]

1 minute ago, ScarletKnight89 said:

So if the Browns draft or sign a player we should assume it's just a bad move?

Additional theory: You can say the same thing about the Jets.

Well at least the Jets have had some good years here and there.  Last year everyone was calling Cleveland a SB contender and despite having a lot of talent they fell flat on their ass.  

[Villain The Foe]

8 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Yes.  Swimmingly.

 

Quotable Freddie Kitchens: Baker Mayfield wasn’t sharpest tool in the shed in Cleveland Browns’ loss at Tampa Bay

Lol. 

 

 

Here's Gase's quote when asked "What was Darnold seeing out there. 

 

[Jetsfan80]

8 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Lol. 

 

 

Here's Gase's quote when asked "What was Darnold seeing out there. 

 

 

Uh, Darnold himself said it.  Baker does or says things that embarrass himself on just about  a monthly basis, both on and off the field.  

[Villain The Foe]

51 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Uh, Darnold himself said it.  Baker does or says things that embarrass himself on just about  a monthly basis, both on and off the field.  

Sounds like the last thing you say to yourself before you fall asleep every night.  

 

[Losmeister]

1 hour ago, Villain The Foe said:

Their rebuild is going much better than ours. Only a hater would deny that. 

if you look at their players, you'd say yes, but 6-10??    better, yes, the have a better roster. much better? they just lost 10 games.

[Losmeister]

2 hours ago, ScarletKnight89 said:

I'm fine with Joe D. taking a chance on a player like George Fant. But when people talk about "Joe D. revamping the O-Line." it needs to be put into perspective. McGovern, and Van Roten were nice moves. I like that. But George Fant is just a new face. That doesn't necessarily mean he's any good. So far in his career he hasn't been. Hopefully he puts it together with the Jets.

technically speaking, the definition of the word revamp has a LOT to do with APPEARANCE.

so yeah, revamped, definitely. whether its IMPROVED is another.

[ScarletKnight89]

4 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

technically speaking, the definition of the word revamp has a LOT to do with APPEARANCE.

so yeah, revamped, definitely. whether its IMPROVED is another.

You are correct.