New York Jets' Adam Gase admits he hasn't helped Sam Darnold develop as NFL QB

[SAR I]

44 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Just to be clear, will the job of the "best young offensive mind out of college or the pro's" be to "call 3 plays" ("this is not hard")? 

Or I guess 2 plays since Adam calls the 3rd downs.  ("‘Hey, these are the three plays.’ I do the third downs.”")

I wonder how many top young offensive minds are going to want to work under Gase in such conditions,

Gase is in a tough spot where he doesn't want to throw any of his players or coaches under the bus.  He is struggling to work with Loggains and doing his best to protect him, often meaning Gase himself takes the hit.

And that's another thing that Gase doing by the way.  His players and coaches respect the fact that Gase takes the body blows so they don't have to.  

SAR I

[TuscanyTile2]

2 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

I don't have it at the ready, but he basically spoke about how the cupboards are bare now, and what do you want from me.

I mean, I wouldn't expect BB to win with scrap-heap players (due to Covid) against teams that are "fully loaded".  But BB is 5-6 right now, which is pretty darn good, all things considered.  I guarantee he'd have several wins if he were coaching the Jets.  And I also guarantee that we wouldn't be getting blown out in half of our games.  Gase not only doesn't win, he often doesn't even keep it competitive.

[TuscanyTile2]

3 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Gase is in a tough spot where he doesn't want to throw any of his players or coaches under the bus.  He is struggling to work with Loggains and doing his best to protect him, often meaning Gase himself takes the hit.

And that's another thing that Gase doing by the way.  His players and coaches respect the fact that Gase takes the body blows so they don't have to.  

SAR I

Bart Scott doesn't agree with you.  "Too little, too late".

 

[SAR I]

5 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Bart Scott doesn't agree with you.  "Too little, too late".

Bart Scott?  LOL.  It's him vs. Don LeGreca trying to steal the Beningo "woe is me I'm going to die before the Jets win anything" overreaction meltdown clickbait crowd.

Believe nothing the media spins.  It's all a product, it's not actual opinion.

SAR I

[ZachEY]

9 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I mean, I wouldn't expect BB to win with scrap-heap players (due to Covid) against teams that are "fully loaded".  But BB is 5-6 right now, which is pretty darn good, all things considered.  I guarantee he'd have several wins if he were coaching the Jets.  And I also guarantee that we wouldn't be getting blown out in half of our games.  Gase not only doesn't win, he often doesn't even keep it competitive.

Belichick was fired in Cleveland and was on the hot seat pre-Brady.

Meanwhile, how many Jets do you suppose would start for the Pats today?

But, if you want me to concede that we'd have 2-3 wins, instead of zero, with the consensus greatest coach of all time, vs. Adam Gase, let me stop you right there and just say, "Sure.  Fine.  No problem.  Go Jets!"  But, I'd also argue that we'd have those same 2-3 wins, and probably more, if you swapped Sam Darnold for Ryan Fitzpatrick right now.  So, upgrade to consensus greatest coach of all time vs. a slightly below average but competent QB, and the results are probably about the same.

[TuscanyTile2]

2 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Bart Scott?  LOL.  It's him vs. Don LeGreca trying to steal the Beningo "woe is me I'm going to die before the Jets win anything" overreaction meltdown clickbait crowd.

Believe nothing the media spins.  It's all a product, it's not actual opinion.

SAR I

Why did Gase hire an incompetent guy like Loggains then?  And why did he keep him after last year?  I thought he was the cutthroat guy who gets things done?

[ZachEY]

5 minutes ago, SAR I said:

It's all a product, it's not actual opinion.

Imagine listening to these shows not knowing this.

Imagine listening to these shows...

[TuscanyTile2]

1 minute ago, TeddEY said:

Belichick was fired in Cleveland and was on the hot seat pre-Brady.

Meanwhile, how many Jets do you suppose would start for the Pats today?

But, if you want me to concede that we'd have 2-3 wins, instead of zero, with the consensus greatest coach of all time, vs. Adam Gase, let me stop you right there and just say, "Sure.  Fine.  No problem.  Go Jets!"  But, I'd also argue that we'd have those same 2-3 wins, and probably more, if you swapped Sam Darnold for Ryan Fitzpatrick right now.

Gase has gotten blown out in around half of our games this season.

[genot]

2 hours ago, SAR I said:

Not sure who that bum is on the left, but the guy on the right is Jordan Palmer, Sam Darnold's personal quarterback coach.  Sam spent 100 days in quarantine with this guy.  It's good that nothing rubbed off.

SAR I

It's his system that is messing with Sam' s. best attributes. Herndon was Darnolds go to guy when he was in trouble. Where is he in this offense?

[ZachEY]

4 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Gase has gotten blown out in around half of our games this season.

As have every player on the Jets.

That's the sort of thing that tends to happen when you have one of the league's worst QBs, one of the worst rosters, and a lot of injuries.

[TuscanyTile2]

1 minute ago, TeddEY said:

As have every player on the Jets.

That's the sort of thing that tends to happen when you have one of the league's worst QBs, one of the worst rosters, and a lot of injuries.

My point is that if you substituted BB for Gase , we'd probably be competitive in almost every game.  And I don't think it's the case that if you only substituted Fitzpatrick for Sam that it would be the case.

 

[Jetsfan80]

47 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

I don't need to feel any better about the coaching, as my "narrative" has always been that coaching plays a much smaller role than people here like to pretend.  Bill Belichick came out this year in agreement with my position.  On top of that, we see a guy like Schottenheimer go on to run a successful offense, and we see guys like Sanchez go on to continue to be horrible.  All of the evidence is on my side here.

If it was all the Jets coaches fault, why haven't Hackenberg, Sanchez, Clemens, Geno, et al. gone on to improve when they got away from the Jets coaches.  The fact is, not only QBs, but you can name maybe one player in the last decade, who left the Jets, and went on to be a much better player.  Demario Davis, and he was pretty good here, and let go for financial reasons.  If there was any evidence of what you claim, you'd expect to see some examples of players, especially QBs, improving.  Please, tell me what Jets QBs have gone on to have better careers after they got away from the Jets coaching?  Be specific, as Jets mishandling of QBs is an iron-clad fact, in your mind.  Or, were they all, "ruined?"  Another concept you can't actually prove is a thing.

Meanwhile, it may be time to reconsider the definition of facts.  Because, your claim that Darnold could or would have been better with other coaches, isn't actually a fact.  The only facts are that Darnold is bad.  He was bad in his first year.  He was bad in his second year.  And he was bad in his third year.  Another coach would make him better is an opinion, and it's an unsubstantiated one.  Lastly, the idea that Darnold was always going to be bad has some actual merit in QBASE, which gave him an over 50% bust rate.  He also had the lowest Elite rate of every top QB in 2018.  So, again, when we look at actual data, not Dcat's feelings, there's plenty of support for Darnold not ever being good.

So, again, all available data is on my side.

 

Not ALL of the data counts, good sir.  Only the datapoints that make Darnold look good.  The rest is just outliers.

[ZachEY]

1 minute ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

My point is that if you substituted BB for Gase , we'd probably be competitive in almost every game.  And I don't think it's the case that if you only substituted Fitzpatrick for Sam that it would be the case.

 

I mean, I think we agree that your point is one that's totally non-falsifiable, allowing you to say and believe whatever you want.

[SAR I]

12 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

Belichick was fired in Cleveland and was on the hot seat pre-Brady.

Meanwhile, how many Jets do you suppose would start for the Pats today?

But, if you want me to concede that we'd have 2-3 wins, instead of zero, with the consensus greatest coach of all time, vs. Adam Gase, let me stop you right there and just say, "Sure.  Fine.  No problem.  Go Jets!"  But, I'd also argue that we'd have those same 2-3 wins, and probably more, if you swapped Sam Darnold for Ryan Fitzpatrick right now.  So, upgrade to consensus greatest coach of all time vs. a slightly below average but competent QB, and the results are probably about the same.

By the way, the Jets would have 3 wins right now if Gregg Williams holds on for another 60 seconds against Denver and New England and Sam Darnold has one measly good 60 minute game against Miami.

The whole mess of 2020 with opt outs and trades and releases and injuries, we still had it in us to get to our potential if the D plays better for a minute and the QB has just one measly quality game in him.

SAR I

[MARTIN]

18 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Gase is in a tough spot where he doesn't want to throw any of his players or coaches under the bus.  He is struggling to work with Loggains and doing his best to protect him, often meaning Gase himself takes the hit.

And that's another thing that Gase doing by the way.  His players and coaches respect the fact that Gase takes the body blows so they don't have to.  

SAR I

SAR I - Please note, i am concerned about you mental health. If you spend eternity playing mental gymnastics, doing anything in your power to justify your bad takes on Gase, it will create permanent damage to your brain. Its a wormhole. You will lose yourself, lose the ability to own your mistakes in life. Its impressive, in some respects, that you can still be coming up with this nonsense....Similar to how its impressive that Gase can outdo himself every week with a worse display of head coaching than the week before. I had no idea that was possible.

Please for the love of god, back away from the Pro-Gase posts. Its embarrassing at this point. The only people on the planet who think Gase is a good HC is his kid (not even the smart one with the rubrics cube), you and his posse of friends that wouldn't dare bad mouth him in the media. In private, i bet Simms/Manning and all those guys are shaking their heads like, man... i was way off on Adam.

Unless i am out of the loop and its understood at JN you are a full time troll just posting to confuse posters that don't know.

[Jetsfan80]

53 minutes ago, Dcat said:

None of that is data as it pertains to why Darnold got worse after Gase showed up.  Every stat points to it. You ignore the correlation and talk about sh*tty QBs of yesteryear.  Comical argument.  Borders on SAR-like.  I expect better.  

I just demonstrated a few posts earlier how his stats improved from 2018 (Bowles-Bates) to 2019 (Gase) across numerous categories. 

[ZachEY]

10 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Not ALL of the data counts, good sir.  Only the datapoints that make Darnold look good.  The rest is just outliers.

I wonder if the Jets will have a halftime ceremony sometime next year to commemorate the time Sam Darnold put up a pretty good game against Green Bay in a loss?  Would be great if they could get all the boys back together for this.

I hope I can get tickets on Stub Hub.  Do you think they'll have a give-away?

[SAR I]

20 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Why did Gase hire an incompetent guy like Loggains then?  And why did he keep him after last year?  I thought he was the cutthroat guy who gets things done?

The 6-2 finish led the Jets to believe that Darnold had taken an important next step, and a consistent coaching staff and playbook were what they thought would get Darnold to the next level.

Turns out Darnold is a bad quarterback, so it doesn't matter who was the OC this season.  What matters is who is the right OC for Trevor Lawrence and we have several months to figure that out.  If it's not Loggains, Gase will find someone else.

SAR I

[Jetsfan80]

30 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I mean, I wouldn't expect BB to win with scrap-heap players (due to Covid) against teams that are "fully loaded".  But BB is 5-6 right now, which is pretty darn good, all things considered.  I guarantee he'd have several wins if he were coaching the Jets.  And I also guarantee that we wouldn't be getting blown out in half of our games.  Gase not only doesn't win, he often doesn't even keep it competitive.

The 2020 Jets ARE a scrap heap team.  

[SAR I]

2 minutes ago, MARTIN said:

SAR I - Please note, i am concerned about you mental health. If you spend eternity playing mental gymnastics, doing anything in your power to justify your bad takes on Gase, it will create permanent damage to your brain. Its a wormhole. You will lose yourself, lose the ability to own your mistakes in life. Its impressive, in some respects, that you can still be coming up with this nonsense....Similar to how its impressive that Gase can outdo himself every week with a worse display of head coaching than the week before. I had no idea that was possible.

Please for the love of god, back away from the Pro-Gase posts. Its embarrassing at this point. The only people on the planet who think Gase is a good HC is his kid (not even the smart one with the rubrics cube), you and his posse of friends that wouldn't dare bad mouth him in the media. In private, i bet Simms/Manning and all those guys are shaking their heads like, man... i was way off on Adam.

Unless i am out of the loop and its understood at JN you are a full time troll just posting to confuse posters that don't know.

Consider yourself enlightened.  When things don't go the way you expect on Black Monday now you know why.

SAR I

[ZachEY]

3 minutes ago, SAR I said:

By the way, the Jets would have 3 wins right now if Gregg Williams holds on for another 60 seconds against Denver and New England and Sam Darnold has one measly good 60 minute game against Miami.

The whole mess of 2020 with opt outs and trades and releases and injuries, we still had it in us to get to our potential if the D plays better for a minute and the QB has just one measly quality game in him.

SAR I

It doesn't matter.  3 wins.  0 wins.  It's a bad team.  They need to get better.  Hopefully the #1 overall pick is a step towards doing so.  They're going to need a lot of talent.

[genot]

26 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Gase is in a tough spot where he doesn't want to throw any of his players or coaches under the bus.  He is struggling to work with Loggains and doing his best to protect him, often meaning Gase himself takes the hit.

And that's another thing that Gase doing by the way.  His players and coaches respect the fact that Gase takes the body blows so they don't have to.  

SAR I

He threw Anderson and his other receivers under the bus the 1st game he coached here. What in god's name are you talking about Did the same thing in Miami with that running back he shipped off too the Eagles. What's up with this love of Gase. His system doesn't work. He always tries to deflect blame on others. He really sucks.

[CrazyCarl40]

What QB has Gase developed? He should be let nowhere near the #1 pick. It’s ludicrous to use such a draft pick on the most important position and hand him over to one of the worst coaches in the league. 

[ZachEY]

12 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I see no facts in this post.  

Here's a couple facts: 

• In his rookie year, Darnold averaged 6.9 yards per attempt.
• In 2019, he averaged 6.9 yards per attempt.

And a few more:

• From 2018 to 2019, Darnold improved in the following statistics:  Completion %, yardage, TD:INT ratio, INT %, and W-L record.

But sure.  Gase death spiral and what-not.  

This also got lost for me in the mess of "people not realizing they're getting trolled by SAR."

But, oops.

[TuscanyTile2]

10 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

I mean, I think we agree that your point is one that's totally non-falsifiable, allowing you to say and believe whatever you want.

True, but I also find if hard to believe that you don't think Belichick is a way better coach than Adam Gase.  In fact, I'll ask you that right now.

[ZachEY]

2 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

True, but I also find if hard to believe that you don't think Belichick is a way better coach than Adam Gase.  In fact, I'll ask you that right now.

That's not at all what I said or am saying.  I'm saying that the difference between an Adam Gase and a Bill Belichick is largely insignificant to the roster of the 2020 New York Jets.  And, probably even less significant than the difference between Sam Darnold and Ryan Fitzpatrick.

[TuscanyTile2]

3 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

That's not at all what I said or am saying.  I'm saying that the difference between an Adam Gase and a Bill Belichick is largely insignificant to the roster of the 2020 New York Jets.  And, probably even less significant than the difference between Sam Darnold and Ryan Fitzpatrick.

I don't think that BB wouldn't make the playoffs with this Jets' team. But I think Sam would've been put in much better situations by his HC and the team would be a lot more competitive.  But like you said, there's no way to prove it (just like there's no way to prove your point above).

And I'll say again that I think football HC's matter A LOT.  

[ZachEY]

1 minute ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I don't think that BB wouldn't make the playoffs with this Jets' team. But I think Sam would've been put in much better situations by his HC and the team would be a lot more competitive.  But like you said, there's no way to prove it (just like there's no way to prove your point above).

And I'll say again that I think football HC's matter A LOT.  

And yet, no one has exposed and embarrassed Sam Darnold more than Bill Belichick.  It's just as likely, if not more, that he'd have found a replacement or be looking for one.

[TuscanyTile2]

3 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

And yet, no one has exposed and embarrassed Sam Darnold more than Bill Belichick.  It's just as likely, if not more, that he'd have found a replacement or be looking for one.

Belichick exposed and embarrassed Peyton Manning in post-season games.  

[Waka Flocka Flacco]

2 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Belichick exposed and embarrassed Peyton Manning in post-season games.  

gase didn't make sammy good because he's MEAN

[TuscanyTile2]

1 minute ago, Waka Flocka Flacco said:

gase didn't make sammy good because he's MEAN

Gase didn't help Sam improve because Gase is terrible at his job.

[ZachEY]

15 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Belichick exposed and embarrassed Peyton Manning in post-season games.  

He did seem to have Manning's number for a bit.

But, you know, Manning was pretty good in other games, while Sam Darnold remains one of the worst in the league.

[TuscanyTile2]

4 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

He did seem to have Manning's number for a bit.

But, you know, Manning was pretty good in other games, while Sam Darnold remains one of the worst in the league.

How many games has Sam had against BB?  And look at the OL and weapons he's been given to face the grand-master (as compared to Peyton).  And Sam is like 23.  Peyton had a good # of years in the NFL before he finally turned it around on BB.

EDIT: And hey, I might be wrong about Sam.  He might end up being a bust.  But I still think he's going to turn it around if he goes to a competent organization with reasonably good talent.  And if he goes to a team like Pittsburgh or SF, I really like his chances to succeed.

[slimjasi]

20 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Belichick exposed and embarrassed Peyton Manning in post-season games.  

Peyton was 3-2 against BB in the playoffs. 

BB had success in the first two playoff games against Manning (2003 AFC title game and 2004 Divisional playoffs), but Peyton Manning won the last three postseason meetings against BB (2006 AFC Championship game, 2013 AFC Championship game, 2015 AFC Championship game), putting up some huge numbers in two of the three wins. 

 

[Waka Flocka Flacco]

Just now, TuscanyTile2 said:

How many games has Sam had against BB?  And look at the OL and weapons he's been given to face the grand-master (as compared to Peyton).

where we go sammy we go all