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Zach Wilson: My Scouting


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Ok, so I couldn't post these at JN because they tend to argue against Zach Wilson, which is a concern when the Jets seem locked in on the guy and this is a Jets website.  So, I made wordpress blog to

Then you havent read my posts.  Look at the QB thread in this forum, I was one of the first posters to bring up Wilson as a prospect.  He was catching fire, lit Bosie St. up and before 98% of this boa

Fair enough but I think the issue is it creates a lot of bad habits and if they're throwing him to the wolves, I'm highly concerned.  The drifting, the bailing on pockets, the sloppy footwork, leaving

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Great article. You’ll get skewered for it but you articulate a lot of my concerns with a greater deal of patience than me. My patience is exhausted by having to deal with surgeons all day lol. 

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46 minutes ago, TheMo said:

Great article. You’ll get skewered for it but you articulate a lot of my concerns with a greater deal of patience than me. My patience is exhausted by having to deal with surgeons all day lol. 

Thanks.  Lol, I generally dislike dealing with people in general.  

Here's part 2:

https://jetsfilmreview.com/2021/04/06/zach-wilson-why-this-decision/

Again, website might be slow.  

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Well done, great article.

People have a tendancy to not take critique of Wilson to well but perhaps that was because Darnold was still on the roster and were looking for someone like Wilson to latch onto.

I've seen a lot of criticism that he missed open recievers and I have stated it myself especially over the middle of the field.

We have to be prepared that Wilson is far far from the finished product and his great arm will get him in trouble in the NFL if he attempts some of the throws he made this year. So I predict he will sit the first half of next season to learn and it's not a slight against Wilson, even Jimmy G sat for a month after been traded to the 49ers to learn the new system.

We supposedly have a coaching staff that can scheme people open if they learned anything from Kyle and in time Wilson will be perfect for the Shanahan/leflour offence but the key word is patience.

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Well done, great article.
People have a tendancy to not take critique of Wilson to well but perhaps that was because Darnold was still on the roster and were looking for someone like Wilson to latch onto.
I've seen a lot of criticism that he missed open recievers and I have stated it myself especially over the middle of the field.
We have to be prepared that Wilson is far far from the finished product and his great arm will get him in trouble in the NFL if he attempts some of the throws he made this year. So I predict he will sit the first half of next season to learn and it's not a slight against Wilson, even Jimmy G sat for a month after been traded to the 49ers to learn the new system.
We supposedly have a coaching staff that can scheme people open if they learned anything from Kyle and in time Wilson will be perfect for the Shanahan/leflour offence but the key word is patience.


I think part of the issue is that Wilson doesn't actually play to the system, because the system itself opens up short routes to bounce off the run.

If you watch the 49ers offense, the first step is establishing the run, then running plays around that run look, so the defense can't diagnose it. Get the defense out of place, quick pass to get guys in open space. So YAC guys are the best fit. If you watch the BYU offense, they run a power spread system, with delayed chip releases from the tight end/fullback/running back. Essentially it gives Wilson time to look at the defense because at some point, they have 7 blockers, and then go. In theory, YAC guys are the best fit.

Wilson bypasses it for down field throws. Now, his downfield throwing is great, best in class, but it relies heavily upon inferior communication, and lack of preparedness. He can take those one on one shots because they are 95/5 balls, 95% chance the defender doesn't even touch it.

1) They have trouble getting pressure without blitzing. If the end of the Ryan era taught us anything, when you need to blitz to get pressure, you are leaving holes in the defense or the QB gets to sit there all day.

2) Defenders don't know how to handle a guy that can make those deep passes. It's not published yet, but there's a whole article on me being befuddled by what a defender is doing.

3) BYU is just more talented. OL is the better than any defense they faced, 2 WR that should get drafted, and a very good system.

I think someone at the draft network mentioned it, that Wilson playing in a similar system in college may not be a great thing. The system is designed to make lives easier for a QB, and Wilson already had that advantage. Someone else in a backward offense (Darnold) may see a leap, so it might be better to go with better tools.

If we pick him, I hope I'm wrong.
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10 minutes ago, win4ever said:

 


I think part of the issue is that Wilson doesn't actually play to the system, because the system itself opens up short routes to bounce off the run.

If you watch the 49ers offense, the first step is establishing the run, then running plays around that run look, so the defense can't diagnose it. Get the defense out of place, quick pass to get guys in open space. So YAC guys are the best fit. If you watch the BYU offense, they run a power spread system, with delayed chip releases from the tight end/fullback/running back. Essentially it gives Wilson time to look at the defense because at some point, they have 7 blockers, and then go. In theory, YAC guys are the best fit.

Wilson bypasses it for down field throws. Now, his downfield throwing is great, best in class, but it relies heavily upon inferior communication, and lack of preparedness. He can take those one on one shots because they are 95/5 balls, 95% chance the defender doesn't even touch it.

1) They have trouble getting pressure without blitzing. If the end of the Ryan era taught us anything, when you need to blitz to get pressure, you are leaving holes in the defense or the QB gets to sit there all day.

2) Defenders don't know how to handle a guy that can make those deep passes. It's not published yet, but there's a whole article on me being befuddled by what a defender is doing.

3) BYU is just more talented. OL is the better than any defense they faced, 2 WR that should get drafted, and a very good system.

I think someone at the draft network mentioned it, that Wilson playing in a similar system in college may not be a great thing. The system is designed to make lives easier for a QB, and Wilson already had that advantage. Someone else in a backward offense (Darnold) may see a leap, so it might be better to go with better tools.

If we pick him, I hope I'm wrong.

 

I read the article you are talking about on the draft network and it got lambasted by the Wilson hype train. 

I want to be like the people who just believe in Wilson and can't see the faults in his game and after Sam was traded I said that's it I'm onboard with him now but something keeps me from getting excited.

I believe in Joe Douglas and what he is trying to do with the Jets and when he hands in the card for Wilson on the 29th I'm sure he will surround our new QB with the tools to succeed.

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16 hours ago, win4ever said:

Ok, so I couldn't post these at JN because they tend to argue against Zach Wilson, which is a concern when the Jets seem locked in on the guy and this is a Jets website.  So, I made wordpress blog to publish it, air out my scouting report.  If the Jets do end up picking Zach Wilson, then I hope I'm completely wrong.  As I've mentioned numerous times, I'm a Fields fan, I think he will translate better to the NFL, but that's merely an opinion.  I have a few more articles I'll write there, and I'll leave a link in this thread.  Would love to hear some feedback.  

1) I know the website sucks, I put it together in the last hour while taking a break.  I didn't plan on spending money to write about Zach Wilson, so I picked the cheapest option possible.  Hence, it might also be a bit slow.   

2) I'll have about 9 more to post in the coming days.  Afterwards, if I get time, I might dive into the 2019 film, which from first glace isn't pretty.  Although, no promises because I do have a job so it's hard finding time or taking time away from my job.  Anyway, would love to hear some feedback on the thoughts.  

3) My goal is to just post my scouting of Zach Wilson, and some proof of what I'm saying.  Although, I'm not an NFL scout or anything close, so if you don't agree, I don't blame you. 

First one:  https://jetsfilmreview.com/2021/04/06/zach-wilson-scouting-stare-down-passing/

Basically my concerns over staring down his options.  

Good article. It is interesting to me how different analysts can look at the same plays and one sees it as a strength and one as a weakness. I have been all in on Wilson since December and think he will translate well to the NFL and I think Fields is far distant from him. I hope you are wrong because Zach Wilson will be the QB of the Jets.

That said I am of the belief that this will be a historic NFL draft and be looked back on as 1983 Part II. I think all 5 top guys have great chances of being franchise guys and this draft shaping the NFL for the next 12-15 years.

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16 hours ago, win4ever said:

Ok, so I couldn't post these at JN because they tend to argue against Zach Wilson, which is a concern when the Jets seem locked in on the guy and this is a Jets website.  So, I made wordpress blog to publish it, air out my scouting report.  If the Jets do end up picking Zach Wilson, then I hope I'm completely wrong.  As I've mentioned numerous times, I'm a Fields fan, I think he will translate better to the NFL, but that's merely an opinion.  I have a few more articles I'll write there, and I'll leave a link in this thread.  Would love to hear some feedback.  

1) I know the website sucks, I put it together in the last hour while taking a break.  I didn't plan on spending money to write about Zach Wilson, so I picked the cheapest option possible.  Hence, it might also be a bit slow.   

2) I'll have about 9 more to post in the coming days.  Afterwards, if I get time, I might dive into the 2019 film, which from first glace isn't pretty.  Although, no promises because I do have a job so it's hard finding time or taking time away from my job.  Anyway, would love to hear some feedback on the thoughts.  

3) My goal is to just post my scouting of Zach Wilson, and some proof of what I'm saying.  Although, I'm not an NFL scout or anything close, so if you don't agree, I don't blame you. 

First one:  https://jetsfilmreview.com/2021/04/06/zach-wilson-scouting-stare-down-passing/

Basically my concerns over staring down his options.  

Awesome job, really good analysis.   I liked that you mentioned how he can be “sloppy” in the pocket, especially when it breaks down.  He really doesn’t climb the pocket like you would want, nor is his footwork even close to being sound in there.  One of the things that I’ve paid attention to when watching Trevor as much as I have, is that the way he climbs the pocket and maintains pretty much textbook footwork while doing so, is so impressive.   Wilson is the complete opposite IMO.   The other thing that I notice is when Zach moves from target to target he doesn’t really move his feet properly when doing so.  I’ll compare him to Trevor again because I’ve watched him the most but, when you watch Trevor move off one target to another he uses his feet to re-aim his body.   Zach tends to aim with his torso and doesn’t move his feet along with it.  He’s been able to get by because of arm talent, but that will get exposed in the NFL.   
 

Anyway, great job!

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I’m skeptical of analysis that focuses on singular plays vs what the player is able to do or does most often. If Wilson routinely shows examples of not locking into receivers and going to through reads often, what exactly is the issue that we are talking about? One of Wilson’s strengths is identifying match ups pre snap and exploiting them, that is a good thing. In one of your examples you critique Wilson for “locking into” and completing a ball to a receiver who has 1 on 1 coverage on the outside, which to me makes no sense. 

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21 hours ago, adobolo2 said:

I read the article you are talking about on the draft network and it got lambasted by the Wilson hype train. 

I want to be like the people who just believe in Wilson and can't see the faults in his game and after Sam was traded I said that's it I'm onboard with him now but something keeps me from getting excited.

I believe in Joe Douglas and what he is trying to do with the Jets and when he hands in the card for Wilson on the 29th I'm sure he will surround our new QB with the tools to succeed.

Yeah, it's hard to have differing opinions at this point.  I made this point on Reddit, but it's like watching a scary movie.  You hear a noise downstairs, and you wonder what it is.  

In theory, you should check it out, make sure it's not anything bad.  Instead, we're in "If we pretend not to hear it, maybe it doesn't exist" crowd.  

Look, if we draft him, I sure as heck hope he succeeds because in the end I root for the jersey.  But I just don't think he's the slam dunk guy that he's made out to be.  

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10 hours ago, johnnysd said:

Good article. It is interesting to me how different analysts can look at the same plays and one sees it as a strength and one as a weakness. I have been all in on Wilson since December and think he will translate well to the NFL and I think Fields is far distant from him. I hope you are wrong because Zach Wilson will be the QB of the Jets.

That said I am of the belief that this will be a historic NFL draft and be looked back on as 1983 Part II. I think all 5 top guys have great chances of being franchise guys and this draft shaping the NFL for the next 12-15 years.

Thanks, it's all a guessing game right now.  The last time we were drafting a QB, the one guy I didn't want was Josh Allen, and he might be the best of the bunch right now.  I think for the Jets, Fields fits better than Wilson.  

A lot of the Wilson hype centers around Mahomes, off platform throws, vertical offense.   

Mahomes sat for a year behind a very good Xs and Os guy:  We have no one

Mahomes plays for Andy Reid, probably one of the best offensive minds of our era:  We have no one established. 

Mahomes team is set up perfectly for his skill set.  He has deep threats that require a 2 safety look, otherwise they can burn you.  He has an elite OL that can protect him unless you blitz.  He has a HOF level TE talent in the intermediate area.  Aside from having an All-Pro caliber RB, I'm not sure you can actually create a better team around him for his skill set.  His deep ball accuracy and arm strength means the safeties have to play back.  His OL means that if you rush the normal amount, he's going to sit there all day until someone is open.  He has enough mobility that if you drop folks back, he can scramble.  He has an intermediate area weapon that might be the best in the game.  They catered that offense to his specific skill.  

We have a below average OL, our receivers aren't go ball threats like KC, and we don't even have a league average TE.  

To me, Field's athletic ability creates blocking because they have to respect the run, while you aren't losing much on the arm aspect.  

I think it has a chance to be great, and all of them could be great for all I know.  

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10 hours ago, sec101row23 said:

Awesome job, really good analysis.   I liked that you mentioned how he can be “sloppy” in the pocket, especially when it breaks down.  He really doesn’t climb the pocket like you would want, nor is his footwork even close to being sound in there.  One of the things that I’ve paid attention to when watching Trevor as much as I have, is that the way he climbs the pocket and maintains pretty much textbook footwork while doing so, is so impressive.   Wilson is the complete opposite IMO.   The other thing that I notice is when Zach moves from target to target he doesn’t really move his feet properly when doing so.  I’ll compare him to Trevor again because I’ve watched him the most but, when you watch Trevor move off one target to another he uses his feet to re-aim his body.   Zach tends to aim with his torso and doesn’t move his feet along with it.  He’s been able to get by because of arm talent, but that will get exposed in the NFL.   
 

Anyway, great job!

Thanks.  

He actually has some of the weirdest footwork that I've seen.  He doesn't quite set his feet well at times, but rather makes jump throws.  It's like he derives almost all of his torque from his hips.  I see him running around and then just making jump throws where both his feet are off the ground.  It's very impressive when he rolls to the left because he doesn't really need to set his feet, saves his time.  In that aspect, as Chris Simms mentioned, he does remind me of baseball players at SS.  But far too many times he has plenty of time and space to make proper mechanical throws and he doesn't.  I don't think I've ever seen a guy that makes jump throws when there isn't a defender within 5 yards of him.  

His OL is also just so much more dominant.  There's one play I highlight in some article, where there's a blitz.  The tackle literally takes the edge defender, and pushes him back and throws him on the blitzing defender and takes them both down.   

I'll post about it more but watch for communication breakdowns as well.  Late movement and most of these defenses just don't communicate fast enough for switches.  Indiana was probably the most disciplined defense I saw out there on the Fields tape, coming with delayed A gap blitzes, pulling defensive ends into hot read zones, all kinds of defensive shells that morph after the snap.  If they actually had better athletes, I thought that defense was absolutely amazing going forward.  Wilson has a pocket where he could do the El Duque windup in the pocket and be perfectly fine.  

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7 hours ago, QB1 said:

I’m skeptical of analysis that focuses on singular plays vs what the player is able to do or does most often. If Wilson routinely shows examples of not locking into receivers and going to through reads often, what exactly is the issue that we are talking about? One of Wilson’s strengths is identifying match ups pre snap and exploiting them, that is a good thing. In one of your examples you critique Wilson for “locking into” and completing a ball to a receiver who has 1 on 1 coverage on the outside, which to me makes no sense. 

Which play are you talking about?  He does show tendencies of locking in, or pre-determining his throws.  It's not a good thing when it goes away from the actual system.  

I think I mention this somewhere eventually, but a good example is Bryce Petty at Baylor.  Whenever they got a single high safety look, the auto adjust was go routes on the outside.  It was one on one match ups, and they recruit speed on top of speed.  Technically, Petty is now reading the defense, and understanding the match up advantage (his speed guy is going to be faster than any Big 12 CB), and throwing the go route.  When he first played in the NFL (I believe vs Colts) he kept adjusting to a deep shot to Robby Anderson, and failing.  He was still making the same read but he didn't have as much time and the defense was much better, so he didn't have a receiver vs defender advantage.  Technically, he was still reading the same mismatch he was reading in college, but it doesn't work in the NFL. 

In Wilson's case, he's going outside of his reads.  If he reads a crossing route as covered, or an out route is covered and moves to the go route, then sure.  Instead, you'll see plenty of guys running around open and Wilson takes the deep shot.  Now it works more often than not because he has a great arm, the defense is low level, and his receivers are better, while he has time in the pocket.  But he's bypassing much easier passes for that, which shows a gunslinger attitude.  Now that attitude is perfectly fine, if he can maintain it.  However, as we saw with Darnold or any other QB that struggles, what happens when he doesn't have that gunslinger attitude because he doesn't have that advantage anymore?  Can he now work within the system?  

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1 hour ago, win4ever said:

Thanks, it's all a guessing game right now.  The last time we were drafting a QB, the one guy I didn't want was Josh Allen, and he might be the best of the bunch right now.  I think for the Jets, Fields fits better than Wilson.  

A lot of the Wilson hype centers around Mahomes, off platform throws, vertical offense.   

Mahomes sat for a year behind a very good Xs and Os guy:  We have no one

Mahomes plays for Andy Reid, probably one of the best offensive minds of our era:  We have no one established. 

Mahomes team is set up perfectly for his skill set.  He has deep threats that require a 2 safety look, otherwise they can burn you.  He has an elite OL that can protect him unless you blitz.  He has a HOF level TE talent in the intermediate area.  Aside from having an All-Pro caliber RB, I'm not sure you can actually create a better team around him for his skill set.  His deep ball accuracy and arm strength means the safeties have to play back.  His OL means that if you rush the normal amount, he's going to sit there all day until someone is open.  He has enough mobility that if you drop folks back, he can scramble.  He has an intermediate area weapon that might be the best in the game.  They catered that offense to his specific skill.  

We have a below average OL, our receivers aren't go ball threats like KC, and we don't even have a league average TE.  

To me, Field's athletic ability creates blocking because they have to respect the run, while you aren't losing much on the arm aspect.  

I think it has a chance to be great, and all of them could be great for all I know.  

Yep. I HATED Watson. Even made a anger filled post about how Hackenburg would be a better QB than him but that was partly because he was also a Jet. I have watched every game of Wilson at this point and I see him translating to the NFL really well. And like I said we all do she it is pretty much guaranteed he is our next QB.

Not a Fields guy. I still value arm talent over athleticism and I think Wilson is a far better athlete people think. Fields is a good thrower too and often our like for one of the other comes down to small little anal biases we all have. 

I truly believe though that this will be a year where they all turn out good. I think we tanked at the right time.

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10 hours ago, QB1 said:

I’m skeptical of analysis that focuses on singular plays vs what the player is able to do or does most often. If Wilson routinely shows examples of not locking into receivers and going to through reads often, what exactly is the issue that we are talking about? One of Wilson’s strengths is identifying match ups pre snap and exploiting them, that is a good thing. In one of your examples you critique Wilson for “locking into” and completing a ball to a receiver who has 1 on 1 coverage on the outside, which to me makes no sense. 

You literally just posted a singular “positive” play in the Wilson thread which is basically the homer version of what win4ever did here.  

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2 hours ago, win4ever said:

Which play are you talking about?  He does show tendencies of locking in, or pre-determining his throws.  It's not a good thing when it goes away from the actual system.  

I think I mention this somewhere eventually, but a good example is Bryce Petty at Baylor.  Whenever they got a single high safety look, the auto adjust was go routes on the outside.  It was one on one match ups, and they recruit speed on top of speed.  Technically, Petty is now reading the defense, and understanding the match up advantage (his speed guy is going to be faster than any Big 12 CB), and throwing the go route.  When he first played in the NFL (I believe vs Colts) he kept adjusting to a deep shot to Robby Anderson, and failing.  He was still making the same read but he didn't have as much time and the defense was much better, so he didn't have a receiver vs defender advantage.  Technically, he was still reading the same mismatch he was reading in college, but it doesn't work in the NFL. 

In Wilson's case, he's going outside of his reads.  If he reads a crossing route as covered, or an out route is covered and moves to the go route, then sure.  Instead, you'll see plenty of guys running around open and Wilson takes the deep shot.  Now it works more often than not because he has a great arm, the defense is low level, and his receivers are better, while he has time in the pocket.  But he's bypassing much easier passes for that, which shows a gunslinger attitude.  Now that attitude is perfectly fine, if he can maintain it.  However, as we saw with Darnold or any other QB that struggles, what happens when he doesn't have that gunslinger attitude because he doesn't have that advantage anymore?  Can he now work within the system?  

You could explain it a million ways, show a hundred examples, some folks just want to play pretend which is cool.  I get it.  It’s exciting he’s the new hot thing!  Literally there is a rival thread to this on the main forum, it’s like homer central, tons of posts circling jerk over him.  This thread shows numerous examples of horrible pocket presence, the fading and drifting...just poor manipulation and guys are drooling over it.   Just that time I guess.  Minds made up.  Refuse to be objective. Again, I get it.  Especially considering he’s more than likely the pick.  

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3 hours ago, johnnysd said:

Yep. I HATED Watson. Even made a anger filled post about how Hackenburg would be a better QB than him but that was partly because he was also a Jet. I have watched every game of Wilson at this point and I see him translating to the NFL really well. And like I said we all do she it is pretty much guaranteed he is our next QB.

Not a Fields guy. I still value arm talent over athleticism and I think Wilson is a far better athlete people think. Fields is a good thrower too and often our like for one of the other comes down to small little anal biases we all have. 

I truly believe though that this will be a year where they all turn out good. I think we tanked at the right time.

I loved Watson, but that throwing MPH really gave me pause.  He was one where on film, I thought he was QB1, but the physical traits review really pushed him down.  I hated the Hackenberg pick, but because I'm a fan, I talked myself into it after the pick, trying to pick out the positives.  

I definitely respect that, there's absolutely no guarantee I'm right.  I think Fields' athleticism with plus arm strength translates better because it fits the offense better.  I also felt he played within the system better, where the reads went in natural progressions more often (not always).  But my biggest factor is really the competition, I like guys that played better competition or just have that good of a physical tools.  For example, Josh Allen is the closest I've seen to those make a player features in video games because his arm strength plus mobility is ridiculous.  I'm fine with physical traits drafting, which is going to happen with Lance this year.  But I think Fields has the best combination of physical traits plus production.  

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2 hours ago, JiF said:

You could explain it a million ways, show a hundred examples, some folks just want to play pretend which is cool.  I get it.  It’s exciting he’s the new hot thing!  Literally there is a rival thread to this on the main forum, it’s like homer central, tons of posts circling jerk over him.  This thread shows numerous examples of horrible pocket presence, the fading and drifting...just poor manipulation and guys are drooling over it.   Just that time I guess.  Minds made up.  Refuse to be objective. Again, I get it.  Especially considering he’s more than likely the pick.  

Lol, didn't even bother to check the thread there.  It's hard because the fan in me wants to believe, wants to think that maybe all the negatives are in my head.  I went through it with Hackenberg.  At first I was like wtf?  I mean he wasn't even on the radar going up to that draft.  Then the Kollman video, people saying he's super smart, and I started to just ignore my own thoughts.  I remember watching those tapes, and the only thing I liked was how much Godwin stood out, or how Barkley was so tough to bring down.  

There's a competition one where I'm just asking what the defense is doing.  Plays where the defender is literally just running away from their assignment.  

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13 minutes ago, win4ever said:

I loved Watson, but that throwing MPH really gave me pause.  He was one where on film, I thought he was QB1, but the physical traits review really pushed him down.  I hated the Hackenberg pick, but because I'm a fan, I talked myself into it after the pick, trying to pick out the positives.  

I definitely respect that, there's absolutely no guarantee I'm right.  I think Fields' athleticism with plus arm strength translates better because it fits the offense better.  I also felt he played within the system better, where the reads went in natural progressions more often (not always).  But my biggest factor is really the competition, I like guys that played better competition or just have that good of a physical tools.  For example, Josh Allen is the closest I've seen to those make a player features in video games because his arm strength plus mobility is ridiculous.  I'm fine with physical traits drafting, which is going to happen with Lance this year.  But I think Fields has the best combination of physical traits plus production.  

Fair enough. I have a suspicion though if you asked Fields and Wilson to have a farthest throwing contest you might be surprised at the winner. 

Back in his first review Greg Cosell said that if you like skills you like Wilson, traits you like Fields.

Also my gut tells me Wilson is better in the Zoom meetings but I know Fields just scored like super high on some standard test.

We will definitely get a front seat

Where do you think Fields goes? I am having a hard time projecting that

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11 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

Fair enough. I have a suspicion though if you asked Fields and Wilson to have a farthest throwing contest you might be surprised at the winner. 

Back in his first review Greg Cosell said that if you like skills you like Wilson, traits you like Fields.

Also my gut tells me Wilson is better in the Zoom meetings but I know Fields just scored like super high on some standard test.

We will definitely get a front seat

Where do you think Fields goes? I am having a hard time projecting that

I think both have really strong arms, to the point where they can make any throw, and both have zip on the ball.  

What I like about Fields is his progression timing.  I don't have time to do a deep dive on Fields like I did for Wilson because I need to work, and have a toddler at home.  But my reasoning being, each play has a progression timing, and it differs from play caller to play caller.  For example, Gailey when he was here loved the mirror concept, where both sides ended up having route stems at the same time.  Fitzpatrick picked a side pre-snap and focused on that side.  In that instance, he doesn't have time to read right, and then move to the other side of the field unless it's a broken play because the stems have happened at the same time.  If we take that deep TD to Olave against Clemson, he doesn't look at that route from the start.  He looks at the quick out route to the TE first because that breaks first, and would be the hot read.  Then he moves to the middle of the field for a high/low read, and decides on the high deep post.  I see that more often (again not always) where his progression is 1, 2, 3.  I've seen Wilson do it as well, just not quite as much.  With Wilson, he notices his primary routes from the start more often, and works to set it up by looking off safety or LB more often.  In doing so, he's missing easier throws built into the system because he's being so aggressive down the field.  I feel like Fields' ability to function within the system is better (not perfect by any means, none of them are) translates better.  Both of them could be better at it, and part of the NFL picking process deals with how well they might learn.  We don't have access to it, so it's just blind guessing.  If they feel Wilson is more coachable or if the staff feels like his flaws are more correctable, he could be the pick.  

I'm a Michigan fan, so I hate loving an OSU QB, but I think he's worth it.  

I don't know honestly.  The hard part is, I think he should go at 2 obviously.  I think he eventually goes 3.  Mac Jones from a mental aspect is the best QB in this class, guy is extremely quick to recognize coverages thus I think he is attractive to guys that might want someone who can start sooner than later.  I don't see the point of the 49ers picking him if Jimmy G is there for this year.  If you can wait a year, why not get much better physical traits and then spend a year teaching the mental aspects of your system?  If Jimmy G is gone, then I understand it more because they are a win now team that doesn't have a pick in the next two first rounds.  I don't think Fields goes beyond 4 at worst.  If he goes beyond 4, there has to be some off the field concern we haven't heard about.  

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2 hours ago, win4ever said:

Lol, didn't even bother to check the thread there.  It's hard because the fan in me wants to believe, wants to think that maybe all the negatives are in my head.  I went through it with Hackenberg.  At first I was like wtf?  I mean he wasn't even on the radar going up to that draft.  Then the Kollman video, people saying he's super smart, and I started to just ignore my own thoughts.  I remember watching those tapes, and the only thing I liked was how much Godwin stood out, or how Barkley was so tough to bring down.  

There's a competition one where I'm just asking what the defense is doing.  Plays where the defender is literally just running away from their assignment.  

The competition piece is being overblown. The teams Lawrence, Fields, and Jones played on were 99%tile in terms of talent. Ohio State, Clemson, and Alabama won’t miss a beat next year without those guys. The same cannot be said about BYU without Wilson. 

Does Wilson throw some risky passes that will probably lead to INTs at the next level? Sure, but I’d prefer it to that to a guy like Tua who had some real problems identifying “NFL open” vs Alabama open. 

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6 hours ago, JiF said:

You literally just posted a singular “positive” play in the Wilson thread which is basically the homer version of what win4ever did here.  

Apples and oranges, the point of that thread is literally to find examples of Wilson handling pressure. 

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6 hours ago, JiF said:

You could explain it a million ways, show a hundred examples, some folks just want to play pretend which is cool.  I get it.  It’s exciting he’s the new hot thing!  Literally there is a rival thread to this on the main forum, it’s like homer central, tons of posts circling jerk over him.  This thread shows numerous examples of horrible pocket presence, the fading and drifting...just poor manipulation and guys are drooling over it.   Just that time I guess.  Minds made up.  Refuse to be objective. Again, I get it.  Especially considering he’s more than likely the pick.  

Anyone can see what they want to see. Your post history shows that you are not much more than a blind hater for Wilson. Our GM and virtually all of the NFL is extremely high on Wilson because they focus on the body of work and the things he can do. It has nothing to do with hype or being the new toy, these people will never sniff Wilson on their team. Does he have bad plays? Of course, everyone does. Is he perfect right now? Of course not, nobody is. I can make you a super cut or Tom Brady folding like a lawn chair under pressure, does that mean he has bad pocket presence? 

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45 minutes ago, QB1 said:

Apples and oranges, the point of that thread is literally to find examples of Wilson handling pressure. 

It's the same exact thing you're knocking here but whatever, like I said, I get it.

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1 hour ago, QB1 said:

Anyone can see what they want to see. Your post history shows that you are not much more than a blind hater for Wilson. Our GM and virtually all of the NFL is extremely high on Wilson because they focus on the body of work and the things he can do. It has nothing to do with hype or being the new toy, these people will never sniff Wilson on their team. Does he have bad plays? Of course, everyone does. Is he perfect right now? Of course not, nobody is. I can make you a super cut or Tom Brady folding like a lawn chair under pressure, does that mean he has bad pocket presence? 

lol

Angry Difficult People GIF by HULU

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16 minutes ago, JiF said:

Then you havent read my posts.  Look at the QB thread in this forum, I was one of the first posters to bring up Wilson as a prospect.  He was catching fire, lit Bosie St. up and before 98% of this board ever heard the name Zach Wilson, I was calling him a legitimate prospect that deserves attention.  Fast forward 8 months and Ive now watched all his snaps and it's very obvious to me and many others, he's a mess.  I was also one of if not the only posters on the site, arguing against Trevor Lawrence being generational.  Why? Because I call like I see it and want the best possible QB for the Jets.  For example; I'm a Gators alum, die hard fan, I want nothing to do with Kyle Trask.  I'm all action, no hype and I tell it like I see, despite what others may think of my take.  This dates back to me fighting the whole board on Watson and Mahomes, I dont mind swimming against the current. 

Wilson is 100% hype, no different then Trubisky.  Similarly, he was a 1 year wonder, pre-draft riser that nobody new existed and then suddenly despite the analysis and the fact there where clearly  better prospects in Watson/Mahomes, Trubiskly became the QB! of that class.   It's happened many times in the past and this is just another example, which makes this all so head scratching.  You saw here, first hand when Mayfield and Darnold went before Allen and Rosen before Jackson.  GM's, the NFL, the experts, get it wrong all the time.  If you're a Jets fan you should know this all too well.

If you take Zach Wilson, you're hoping you can break him down and reconstruct him into a QB because right now, he's a yolo sandlot player.  I'm not saying it cant be done, there are some very appealing aspects to his game; his arm and sideline accuracy are impressive as hell but the rest is scary as hell.  Like terrifying but you never know, maybe he can figure it out.  All I know, is I wouldnt be willing to risk my career on it. 

I think what you find here, are people genuinely looking at prospect with an open lens whereas much of that activity on the mainboard is just nonsense. 

“Wilson is 100% hype, no different then Trubisky

Totally different players with totally different skill sets and totally different talent levels. What a lazy comparison. 

If it’s so obvious then you should be ringing the alarm about Douglas because he is evaluating the player as worthy of not only the #2 pick but trading our current starter for him.

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2 hours ago, JiF said:

I was also one of if not the only posters on the site, arguing against Trevor Lawrence being generational. 

Same.. fields is the best of the lot to me. I didnt want to draft Lawrence which is why I was ok with those late season wins. But I'd be 100x more comfortable with him than Wilson, so careful what you wish for 

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30 minutes ago, QB1 said:

“Wilson is 100% hype, no different then Trubisky

Totally different players with totally different skill sets and totally different talent levels. What a lazy comparison. 

If it’s so obvious then you should be ringing the alarm about Douglas because he is evaluating the player as worthy of not only the #2 pick but trading our current starter for him.

No, it is in fact, it's a great comparison. They are indeed, very similar players with very similar skill sets, size and build and their rise to draft prominence is almost identical except, there was no Trevor Lawrence in that draft.  I gave you a wonderfully detailed post with a valid comparison and a history of me addressing these prospects with an objective lens and you proceed to call me lazy.  Yet, you're the poster who just sh*t all over this incredibly deep detailed work by win4ever because it doesnt fit your narrative, while you post single clips of Wilson in other threads to scream "see, he's good".

ridiculous

 

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44 minutes ago, JiF said:

I was also one of if not the only posters on the site, arguing against Trevor Lawrence being generational.

Deff not the only. Some of us were posting about it even before the COVID CFB season started!

18 minutes ago, CTM said:

Same.. fields is the best of the lot to me. I didnt want to draft Lawrence which is why I was ok with those late season wins. BAut I'd be 100x more comfortable with him than Wilson, so careful what you wish for 

Same. Was fun watching the meltdowns all over the boards after the Rams game. Now I'm the one having a meltdown that we're essentially going to forgo a guy who I think will be best in class to take the quarterback version of the Ghost at #2 overall because his marketing team was able to woo a bunch of fans. 

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9 minutes ago, JiF said:

No, it is in fact, it's a great comparison. They are indeed, very similar players with very similar skill sets, size and build and their rise to draft prominence is almost identical except, there was no Trevor Lawrence in that draft.  I gave you a wonderfully detailed post with a valid comparison and a history of me addressing these prospects with an objective lens and you proceed to call me lazy.  Yet, you're the poster who just sh*t all over this incredibly deep detailed work by win4ever because it doesnt fit your narrative, while you post single clips of Wilson in other threads to scream "see, he's good".

ridiculous

 

No, they have nothing in common. Trubisky is a bigger athlete with running ability that was more likely to translate to the NFL, he had an average arm but was pretty solid all around in terms of accuracy. Literally flashed no elite traits other than maybe his pure athleticism. You call wilson a “yolo” QB yet trubisky wasn’t that, at all- which one is it? 
 

Wilson is on a different level in terms of natural throwing ability and arm strength and ability to throw on the move. He has unique traits that project to elite level play. I don’t disagree that he makes some bad decisions (especially running the ball) and needs some work, but to ignore the special ability this kid shows because he has some flaws is absurd to me. 
 

 

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