A Few Observations about JOE DOUGLAS

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

16 hours ago, Jet2020 said:

His strategy and philosophy makes zero difference if he’s not winning games. If Zach Wilson is a bust, we are winning 4-5 games this year at best. If after your 3rd full season you’ve won 10 games total, your long term strategy is garbage. 

As for talent evaluation being his biggest strength, which home runs did he hit? 

We had a horrendous D last year. Absolute garbage. Couple of rookies aren’t turning it into the 85 Bears D. Our offense was also absolute garbage save for 4-5 games. 

Unless he hits on all 4 early picks this year and Zach playing average at least. We aren’t winning more than 5 and that long term strategy comes under heavy scrutiny. 

Im not washing JDs balls. 

LOL on washing JD's balls :).

Also wanted to take a minute to respond on the talent evaluation.

As mentioned in the OP, his philosophy of taking 1 year flyers on former first rounders and/or those he believed to be miscast has NOT paid off.  AT ALL.  Jared Davis and Sheldon Rankins are the most recent examples.  Brandon Perriman was another example.  So he gets a bad grade here!

He also has a very bad existing grade on his first draft.  Personally, I only have hope for Becton and Hall.  Becton would have to turn into a hall of fame for this draft to even reach B :).  And we know he has big question marks he must answer.  Hall is an enigma, I really love the way he plays but the Jets clearly went out and 'upgraded'.

Obviously there are still a lot of other question marks, some due to injury and some due to youth.  But I am excited about his last 2 drafts + players he has given multi-year contracts to, AND also appreciate some of the quieter moves he has made (JFM, Berrios, Quincy Williams, Nate Herbig, Mike White, Bryce Huff, Javelin Guidry). 

I'm also optimistic his talent evaluation finally did things we haven't seen in decades ..  or forever.  But to your point, it's too early to tell so the big hits have not yet arrived. 

1. Hit big on a 2nd rounder, let alone Wide Receiver in Elijah Moore

2. Select a player like Breece Hall who has star written all over him.  I recall passing on players like Warren Sapp who most Jets fans were screaming for.  To be let down time and again with head scratching moves

3. Grabbed us a franchise QB.  Yes, I know Wilson was PRETTY BAD year 1.  While some fans are understandably down on him, I also remember that many fans were high on Darnold and Sanchez after their first year.  So the jury is still out ... but I can't help be encouraged by his progress on the basic stuff and off the chart talent on the more difficult 

[PS17]

9 hours ago, T0mShane said:

The 2021 draft was so good that they ran right out this year and paid huge for a guard to supplement the guard they drafted at 14, traded up for a back (and re-signed Tevin Coleman) to supplement the back they drafted in the third, drafted a receiver at 10 to do what Elijah Moore was going to do, went out and used massive capital to bury all the corners they drafted over the two years prior, and the safety-to-LB converts they drafted won’t beat out Quinnen Williams’  journeyman UDFA brother. 

The 2020 roster was so barren that they needed multiple players at every position on the team. The team needed three new receivers minimum, two new interior OL, new CBs, new edges, TEs, etc. Douglas attacking the same positions in the 2022 draft is not an indictment of his 2021 draft. 
 

That said, I do agree that we are all [over]optimistically projecting the 2021 class.

[PS17]

3 hours ago, slats said:

Yeah, and you would’ve had them draft an OT to replace the one they took in 2019, because that would’ve been smart, right?
 
Last I looked, most teams have two starting guards, with three starting WRs and CBs. Tomlinson isn’t replacing AVT, he’s shoring up the other side of the line. The safety converts were never supposed to play the S/M that Williams does, only the 30% of the time they have a Will out there. GWilson isn’t replacing Moore, he’s upgrading the #3 from Berrios. MC1 and Coleman were brought here to be part of a RBBC, Breece Hall takes over the #1 spot and the room is massively improved. Isn’t that what you want the GM to do? Improve the team?

Reading this post, maybe you think he should’ve drafted baseball players instead. I mean, the team had plenty of football players on it already. 

Oops, I should have just scrolled down two posts and read this. Negate my post above. Thanks slats 

[jason423]

I don't think anyone has much of a handle on JD at this time. We probably will get a better idea by the end of the season because there is little reason for the Jets to be less than a 7 win team if he is doing a good job. A few observations

His biggest strength has been the way he has played his trades of veteran players. I'm not sure anyone has been more successful in pedaling away guys with no future in NY and getting a good return than Douglas.

He falls into the group who places far too much emphasis on draft status for question mark players. This is why they have brought in these former 1st round underperformers. 

In that same light he puts a ton of emphasis on the draft grades they are giving individual players which has led to the trade ups. This is similar to the Maccagnan approach. He wont get fleeced on a trade up but is putting a lot of stock in "his board". 

He has had shortcomings in dealing with agents. There are times when he probably should not speak publicly about certain things as he has had a few fire back saying its a downright lie. That doesnt matter if you are a winning team but it costs you in free agency when you have a bad reputation.

I believe his approach also runs in line with the last successful GM the team had (Tannenbaum) where he does work closer with the coach in selecting players. The negative on this is that I think they kind of abandoned 2021 because Saleh wasnt familiar enough with the roster so they tried to piece it together with a bunch of one year deals and very limited upside rookies. They were much more aggressive this year because I think the coach had far more input as to what he wanted for the team 

FWIW I dont think there is much merit to the "it takes 4 years to build a winner" takes. The Bills had a record amount of dead money while purging the team from a really bad run by their GM. They made the playoffs with Tyrod Taylor and twice with the version of Josh Allen that was closer to Mitch Trubisky than the guy who wears the Allen jersey now. Obviously it is all about finding the right QB but thus far the teams the Jets have put together have been poor in almost every facet of the game.  That's not all on Maccagnan and Gase. Wilson was a disaster last season but there was little competency in any other aspect to hide just how bad the QB position was. 

[T0mShane]

5 hours ago, slats said:

GWilson isn’t replacing Moore, he’s upgrading the #3 from Berrios.

The Jets used the #10 pick to draft a third receiver, and who is an upgrade on a guy they just re-signed for $6 mil per year? We can like the players he picked and still be a bit wary as to the use of resources, particularly when it’s a year after using resources on those same positions. 

[slats]

3 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

The Jets used the #10 pick to draft a third receiver, and who is an upgrade on a guy they just re-signed for $6 mil per year? We can like the players he picked and still be a bit wary as to the use of resources, particularly when it’s a year after using resources on those same positions. 

Just stop it. They drafted the guy to replace Corey Davis over the course of the year and to upgrade the entire position. Garrett Wilson moves Berrios from the #3 to #4 WR, that’s all I was saying. Any one of the top three guys can play in the slot. 

[slimjasi]

4 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

The Jets used the #10 pick to draft a third receiver, and who is an upgrade on a guy they just re-signed for $6 mil per year? We can like the players he picked and still be a bit wary as to the use of resources, particularly when it’s a year after using resources on those same positions. 

I strongly question the premise here. I don’t think the jets look at Wilson as the “3rd receiver.” I think they look at him as another good WR and playmaker to add to the offense. I imagine you’ll see Wilson line up all over the place. 

Teams need multiple good WRs and our WRs alll get hurt every year, anyway. Moore, Davis, Wilson, and Berrios will all get plenty of reps. 

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

The Jets used the #10 pick to draft a third receiver, and who is an upgrade on a guy they just re-signed for $6 mil per year? We can like the players he picked and still be a bit wary as to the use of resources, particularly when it’s a year after using resources on those same positions. 

I'm sure Bengals fans are super upset when they drafted Ja'Marr Chase in the 1st round one year after using a high 2nd rounder on Tee Higgins, too.

[slimjasi]

3 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I'm sure Bengals fans are super upset when they drafted Ja'Marr Chase in the 1st round one year after using a high 2nd rounder on Tee Higgins, too.

Using multiple high draft picks on a premium position? Blasphemy for our Jets!

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, slimjasi said:

Using multiple high draft picks on a premium position? Blasphemy for our Jets!

Not to mention that pesky rule about not being allowed to have TWO really good young WR's on the same roster.  Damn you, No Fun League!

[Scoop24]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

The Jets used the #10 pick to draft a third receiver, and who is an upgrade on a guy they just re-signed for $6 mil per year? We can like the players he picked and still be a bit wary as to the use of resources, particularly when it’s a year after using resources on those same positions. 

“With Garrett Wilson, though, the Jets exchange that physicality for versatility. He’s much like Elijah Moore, who can play inside and out, and be just as dominant at both locations.

Wilson allows LaFleur to open the playbook more and deploy him, Moore and Corey Davis in so many different ways. The Jets preferred London primarily outside in their scheme. He and Davis would have manned those positions, while Moore played the slot. Now, LaFleur can rotate Moore, Wilson and Braxton Berrios in the slot. Davis is the only player who will remain solely outside.

This has the potential to add more creativity to the playbook to keep a defense on its toes. Next week is the first time to see the grouping work together.”

from hughes article today.

[T0mShane]

53 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I'm sure Bengals fans are super upset when they drafted Ja'Marr Chase in the 1st round one year after using a high 2nd rounder on Tee Higgins, too.

 

49 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Using multiple high draft picks on a premium position? Blasphemy for our Jets!

 

45 minutes ago, Scoop24 said:

“With Garrett Wilson, though, the Jets exchange that physicality for versatility. He’s much like Elijah Moore, who can play inside and out, and be just as dominant at both locations.

Wilson allows LaFleur to open the playbook more and deploy him, Moore and Corey Davis in so many different ways. The Jets preferred London primarily outside in their scheme. He and Davis would have manned those positions, while Moore played the slot. Now, LaFleur can rotate Moore, Wilson and Braxton Berrios in the slot. Davis is the only player who will remain solely outside.

This has the potential to add more creativity to the playbook to keep a defense on its toes. Next week is the first time to see the grouping work together.”

from hughes article today.

Whoa. I liked the Garrett Wilson pick. I think he can be a #1 guy. I was responding to @#27TheDominator’s post about Jets fans maybe overestimating the 2021 draft haul. 

[slats]

28 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

 

 

Whoa. I liked the Garrett Wilson pick. I think he can be a #1 guy. I was responding to @#27TheDominator’s post about Jets fans maybe overestimating the 2021 draft haul. 

Tap brake, pass gas. 

[slimjasi]

15 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

 

 

Whoa. I liked the Garrett Wilson pick. I think he can be a #1 guy. I was responding to @#27TheDominator’s post about Jets fans maybe overestimating the 2021 draft haul. 

The offseason is slow.

Gotta fight about something!

[nycdan]

Here's a little review.  This is the roster JD inherited more or less:

I look up and down the list, and here is where I think we may not have significantly upgraded.

Leonard Williams, Jamal Adams.  Done.  That's it.  18 of 22 starter positions have probably been upgraded in 3 years (QW and Mosley still here).  Maybe you can argue Maye, so that's one more at best.

Then you look at the backups.  Of those 22 names, Foley Fatukasi would still make this roster, and Shepherd is still here.  I don't think a single other name on that list would even make this roster.

Now not all of the guys we have are going to be great.  But when you can turn over 38 of 44 names on your starter/backup list in 3 years, that says something about how absolutely awful the roster was, and how effective JD has been at giving this team a chance to get better.  Yeah, it took 3 years to get here, but if you think that was too slow, go back and look at the image above again.

[T0mShane]

50 minutes ago, slats said:

Tap brake, pass gas. 

 

47 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

The offseason is slow.

Gotta fight about something!

Sometimes I feel bad about viciously attacking this regime, but then I remember that it’s because you guys antagonize me.