Would you rather ...

[slimjasi]

4 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

This presupposes that Flacco gets the Jets to the AFCCG and then disappears from the face of the Earth. You’d just re-sign Flacco and draft another QB in 2023 who doesn’t have to play right away. If you get 2 years of Flacco reliably leading a run-heavy, west coast offense that demonstrates it can win games, who cares that he’s not 22 years old? 

If Flacco gets us to the title game this year, you can bet your life savings that he regresses to the mean in 2023, IMO. 1998 Vinny, 2015 Fitz all over again, IMO

[Mogglez]

Just now, Warfish said:

The "chance" referenced was playing in the AFCCG.

Yes, I am aware of that.  It’s not much of a “chance” if you are destined to lose the game, as outlined by the OP.  What you’re being asked here is would you rather lose an AFC championship game with Flacco, or miss the playoffs this year but know that Wilson is a FQB.

[PorP]

22 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Well, fortunately, most of the people who took the Zach Wilson option already think Zach Wilson is a franchise QB. 
 

What numbers would we have to see from Zach Wilson to consider him potentially elite? 3800 yards? 67% completions? How about 22 TDs and 13 INTs? That’s pretty elite-looking, yes?

[Side note: Those were Mac Jones’ stats as a rookie]

No i do not consider 3800 yds or a td/int ratio of 1.9:1 elite. Or even great. 

Any conversation that doesn't have Zach in it until he reaches the year when his contract $ is no longer guaranteed is moot.

So the poll asked do I want a one-timer who we know is not going to be our FQB taking us short of the SB

Or

The other guy progressing towards potentially a better jet future

I can't speak for everyone who voted ZW but for me. If I'm not SB bound with the vet, I'd rather gambling on a progressing future.

 

[jgb]

9 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

If Flacco gets us to the title game this year, you can bet your life savings that he regresses to the mean in 2023, IMO. 1998 Vinny, 2015 Fitz all over again, IMO

BYU is the worst QB in the league last season: “Yeah, but Josh Allen got better.”

Flacco takes Jets to title game this year after a 4-13 season: “Yeah, but let’s see you do that again.”

 

[jgb]

42 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Well, fortunately, most of the people who took the Zach Wilson option already think Zach Wilson is a franchise QB. 
 

What numbers would we have to see from Zach Wilson to consider him potentially elite? 3800 yards? 67% completions? How about 22 TDs and 13 INTs? That’s pretty elite-looking, yes?

[Side note: Those were Mac Jones’ stats as a rookie]

Oh we would all be crowing if BYU put up Mac Jones stats last year. I sure would be.

[jgb]

8 minutes ago, PorP said:

No i do not consider 3800 yds or a td/int ratio of 1.9:1 elite. Or even great. 

Any conversation that doesn't have Zach in it until he reaches the year when his contract $ is no longer guaranteed is moot.

So the poll asked do I want a one-timer who we know is not going to be our FQB taking us short of the SB

Or

The other guy progressing towards potentially a better jet future

I can't speak for everyone who voted ZW but for me. If I'm not SB bound with the vet, I'd rather gambling on a progressing future.

 

If BYU sucks this year and the Jets hand him the role anyway in 2023, Saleh is going to need the Royal Marines to prevent a locker room mutiny. 

[PorP]

3 minutes ago, jgb said:

If BYU sucks this year and the Jets hand him the role anyway in 2023, Saleh is going to need the Royal Marines to prevent a locker room mutiny. 

So that's true right...

But considering all QB's drafted over the last 6 years.... and you have 8 or so that wouldn't cause this so I don't think it's abnormal. 

[jgb]

1 minute ago, PorP said:

So that's true right...

But considering all QB's drafted over the last 6 years.... and you have 8 or so that wouldn't cause this so I don't think it's abnormal. 

Sorry, I don't follow. Would you mind clarifying? Thank you.

[PorP]

Just now, jgb said:

Sorry, I don't follow. Would you mind clarifying? Thank you.

There are a lot of guys given the keys in yr 3 that maybe shouldn't have. It happens more often than not.

If ZW is questionable this year and come yr 3,  it's fairly common to give him the keys. 

Is what I was trying to say

[jgb]

2 hours ago, PorP said:

There are a lot of guys given the keys in yr 3 that maybe shouldn't have. It happens more often than not.

If ZW is questionable this year and come yr 3,  it's fairly common to give him the keys. 

Is what I was trying to say

Ah, gotcha gotcha. Look, there is a big difference between bad and NFL-worst, as there is between guys who show an upward trend and those that don't. If he's literally the NFL's worst QB again... don't see how he can be rolled out there in 2023. If he "improves" to merely bad? Guess it'll depend on how much and whether it's a late season fool's gold spike or a longer trend.

[slimjasi]

18 minutes ago, jgb said:

BYU is the worst QB in the league last season: “Yeah, but Josh Allen got better.”

Flacco takes Jets to title game this year after a 4-13 season: “Yeah, but let’s see you do that again.”

 

Apples to giraffes 

 

Flacco is a 37 year old QB who hasn’t played at a high level in years (2014?). Regressing to the mean seems like somewhat of a given.

Players tend to get better after their rookie years. That list is a lot longer than Josh Allen. 

[jgb]

2 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Apples to giraffes 

 

Flacco is a 37 year old QB who hasn’t played at a high level in years (2014?). Regressing to the mean seems like somewhat of a given.

Players tend to get better after their rookie years. That list is a lot longer than Josh Allen. 

I’d love to be having this debate in summer 2023.

[slimjasi]

2 minutes ago, jgb said:

I’d love to be having this debate in summer 2023.

If we’ve won a SB? Sure! 
 

after another title game loss? I’ll pass 

[PorP]

9 minutes ago, jgb said:

Ah, gotcha gotcha. Look, there is a big difference between bad and NFL-worst, as there is between guys who show an upward trend and those that don't. If he's literally the NFL's worst QB again... don't see how you can be rolled out there in 2023. If he "improves" to merely bad? Guess it'll depend on how much and whether it's a late season fool's gold spike or a longer trend.

If he is the worst in the league again... true. 

He won't be... having an obvious answer like that is not "jetdom" and why my mind didn't even go there....

If is anything like years past.... he will flash greatness and flaws and be ranked #25 so that next year we will be here knife fighting over a 3rd year jump. 

[Barry McCockinner]

2 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Well, fortunately, most of the people who took the Zach Wilson option already think Zach Wilson is a franchise QB. 
 

What numbers would we have to see from Zach Wilson to consider him potentially elite? 3800 yards? 67% completions? How about 22 TDs and 13 INTs? That’s pretty elite-looking, yes?

[Side note: Those were Mac Jones’ stats as a rookie]

I'm thinking something along the lines of the first Aaron Rodgers season.

4,038 yards, 28 TD's, 13 INT, 63.5 comp %

Most importantly, looks like a franchise QB. It's like porn, hard to define but you know when you see it.

The Packers went 6-10 that year, btw. For everyone saying a losing season with an obvious franchise QB doesn't make sense.

[T0mShane]

2 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

I'm thinking something along the lines of the first Aaron Rodgers season.

4,038 yards, 28 TD's, 13 INT, 63.5 comp %

Most importantly, looks like a franchise QB. It's like porn, hard to define but you know when you see it.

The Packers went 6-10 that year, btw. For everyone saying a losing season with an obvious franchise QB doesn't make sense.

I think 4000/28/13/63.5 would be amazing, personally. 

[neckdemon]

i change my vote. i'd rather see flacco lead us to a championship game. it would give respect to the jets and we would be bale to capitalize with decent free agents and possibly even a good qb. wilson isn't the guy

[Warfish]

2 hours ago, Mogglez said:

Yes, I am aware of that.  It’s not much of a “chance” if you are destined to lose the game, as outlined by the OP.  What you’re being asked here is would you rather lose an AFC championship game with Flacco, or miss the playoffs this year but know that Wilson is a FQB.

I believe I've already answered, thanks.

Winning > Potential

A great year that end in the AFCCG > Another losing year with the same old "looks" like a FQB.

Hell, we have no shortage of people who think she "looked" like a FQB last year, at times.

An AFCCG would mean a fun, winning season, and being a respectable franchise again (it's been a while).

I'll take that over more of the same "potential" and "looks like, maybe" B.S.

 

[Dunnie]

Well, fortunately, most of the people who took the Zach Wilson option already think Zach Wilson is a franchise QB. 
 
What numbers would we have to see from Zach Wilson to consider him potentially elite? 3800 yards? 67% completions? How about 22 TDs and 13 INTs? That’s pretty elite-looking, yes?

[side note: Those were Mac Jones’ stats as a rookie]

Saleh . Belichick .... belichick .... Saleh

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

[Mogglez]

9 minutes ago, Warfish said:

I believe I've already answered, thanks.

Winning > Potential

A great year that end in the AFCCG > Another losing year with the same old "looks" like a FQB.

Hell, we have no shortage of people who think she "looked" like a FQB last year, at times.

An AFCCG would mean a fun, winning season, and being a respectable franchise again (it's been a while).

I'll take that over more of the same "potential" and "looks like, maybe" B.S.

 

So one season that results in zero championships over the guaranteed FQB.  Got it.

 

Lmfao.

[Mogglez]

42 minutes ago, neckdemon said:

i change my vote. i'd rather see flacco lead us to a championship game. it would give respect to the jets and we would be bale to capitalize with decent free agents and possibly even a good qb. wilson isn't the guy

How many of you people didn’t actually read the question?  Option B is Zach turns out to be the answer, we just miss the playoffs this season.  My goodness, this is unbelievable.

[slimjasi]

49 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

I'm thinking something along the lines of the first Aaron Rodgers season.

4,038 yards, 28 TD's, 13 INT, 63.5 comp %

Most importantly, looks like a franchise QB. It's like porn, hard to define but you know when you see it.

The Packers went 6-10 that year, btw. For everyone saying a losing season with an obvious franchise QB doesn't make sense.

Bingo.

 

also, thank you for pointing out the losing record. There is this wildly inaccurate, media-driven fallacy that “real” franchise QBs can’t have losing records. On the contrary, it’s happened many, many times in the past. 

[Warfish]

1 minute ago, Mogglez said:

So one season that results in zero championships over the guaranteed FQB.  Got it.

 

Lmfao.

I'm sorry, the OP did not say anything about a "guaranteed FQB".

He said, and I quote:  "...but looks like FQB".

It's basically the "Darnold the tail end of 2019" situation.  Per the OP "Jets struggle the first half", presumably under Wilson, then he looks good down the stretch once the Jets are all but eliminated.  Again, Darnold in 2019.

I'm comfortable with my vote.  If you feel differently, great.

 

[Mogglez]

1 minute ago, Warfish said:

I'm sorry, the OP did not say anything about a "guaranteed FQB".

He said, and I quote:  "...but looks like FQB".

It's basically the "Darnold the tail end of 2019" situation.  Per the OP "Jets struggle the first half", presumably under Wilson, then he looks good down the stretch once the Jets are all but eliminated.  Again, Darnold in 2019.

I'm comfortable with my vote.  If you feel differently, great.

 

I tagged Barry to have him clarify and he upvoted this:

if you want the seratonin drip of a 4th AFC Championship Game loss, be my guest.  I’m not taking that over 10-15 years of FQB play.

[Barry McCockinner]

3 minutes ago, Warfish said:

I'm sorry, the OP did not say anything about a "guaranteed FQB".

He said, and I quote:  "...but looks like FQB".

It's basically the "Darnold the tail end of 2019" situation.  Per the OP "Jets struggle the first half", presumably under Wilson, then he looks good down the stretch once the Jets are all but eliminated.  Again, Darnold in 2019.

I'm comfortable with my vote.  If you feel differently, great.

 

Darnold didn't look like a fqb at the tail end of 2019. He looked like he was playing better.

[Mogglez]

1 minute ago, Barry McCockinner said:

Darnold didn't look like a fqb at the tail end of 2019. He looked like he was playing better.

[slimjasi]

14 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

How many of you people didn’t actually read the question?  Option B is Zach turns out to be the answer, we just miss the playoffs this season.  My goodness, this is unbelievable.

I think the poll would have been more effective if Wilson’s name was left out of it. He has become too polarizing. People see his name and immediately know which way they are voting.
 

You could do the same poll with Streveler (invent some scenario in which he has to start by week 4) and have a better discussion  

[Larz]

Not this specific scenario, but gave my 16 year old sorta jets fan son the executive bullet points on this and he said invest in Wilson. He’s the smartest person I know, so start Wilson lol 

[Fantasy Island]

4 hours ago, T0mShane said:

I find the results of this poll to be troubling. More than a third of the league usually finishes with 8 or nine wins. Many do it with poor QB play. It’s not especially difficult, and it’s no guarantor of progress, particularly in a 17 game season. But so many of you are so invested in Zack Wilson that you’d turn down a magic carpet ride to the AFC Championship Game solely because it wasn’t Wilson at the helm? 

8 or 9 wins is a championship here.  

[Hal N of Provo]

7 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

I think the poll would have been more effective if Wilson’s name was left out of it. He has become too polarizing. People see his name and immediately know which way they are voting.
 

You could do the same poll with Streveler (invent some scenario in which he has to start by week 4) and have a better discussion  

Look at who voted for which options lol 

I think the days of meaningful discussion on the topic (if they ever existed) are gone lol 

[slimjasi]

7 minutes ago, Fantasy Island said:

8 or 9 wins is a championship here.  

The thing is - in both scenarios, the Jets are 100% not winning a title this year. The poll is really asking you to decide which scenario is better for the jets in the long run. 

[slimjasi]

11 minutes ago, Hal N of Provo said:

Look at who voted for which options lol 

I think the days of meaningful discussion on the topic (if they ever existed) are gone lol 

There are actually a number of people who think Wilson is complete dogsh*t who voted for option 2.

[jgb]

2 hours ago, slimjasi said:

If we’ve won a SB? Sure! 
 

after another title game loss? I’ll pass 

Perfect is the enemy of the good. For me, making the playoffs is a successful season and a helluva lotta fun as a fan.

[Warfish]

35 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

I tagged Barry to have him clarify and he upvoted this:

if you want the seratonin drip of a 4th AFC Championship Game loss, be my guest.  I’m not taking that over 10-15 years of FQB play.

Upvote or not, the OP said what it said. 

It did not say what you've claimed it said about "guaranteed FQB".  It certainly doesn't say "10-15 years of FQB play".

It said "look like" only, and in the "second half" only, and in 2022 only.  Everything else is your presumption based on that alone. 

Given the record the OP indicates, and the "looks like a FQB", it's exactly the same scenario as 2019.  And again, many posters here believed Sam "looked like" a FQB in that 2019 stretch.....even if they now deny it today.  

Ultimately, I'm not really sure what you're looking for here Mog.  We disagree.  That's actually ok, you know.

I have no need to change your view on this.  You can prefer whatever you want in this hypothetical.  Not sure why you're sounding so aggressive/sarcastic trying to change mine.

[slimjasi]

24 minutes ago, jgb said:

Perfect is the enemy of the good. For me, making the playoffs is a successful season and a helluva lotta fun as a fan.

In a vacuum, I would rather make the playoffs instead of missing them. No argument there