New York Mets 2023 Thread (LFGM)

[Scott Dierking]

13 hours ago, bicketybam said:

14 hours ago, Scott Dierking said:

Cohen just bought himself a farm system. Good to be king.

When has buying *anything* worked in baseball?

Yankees, Dodgers.

[JustInFudge]

7 hours ago, Maynard13 said:

These 2 RAVe abiut him when Astros took him. Now he's a Met!

Mets fan buddy who is a Vol said he's got attitude like a modern day Lenny Dykstra.

[RutgersJetFan]

56 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

It is like the early 80's again with the farm system.

Minus the cocaine.

[RutgersJetFan]

53 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

Yankees, Dodgers.

I think the Dodgers are exactly what Cohen’s going for long term and IMO that’s obvious at this point. The big short term contracts were to buy time to rebuild the farm. 

The trades the last week have been great but they have knocked their last three drafts out of the park and that’s because of the heavy investment he’s done with the scouting and analytics. I.e. the talent they’ve been landing in the second half of the first every year can’t just be a coincidence. 

[Scott Dierking]

2 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

I think the Dodgers are exactly what Cohen’s going for long term and IMO that’s obvious at this point. The big short term contracts were to buy time to rebuild the farm. 

The trades the last week have been great but they have knocked their last three drafts out of the park and that’s because of the heavy investment he’s done with the scouting and analytics. I.e. the talent they’ve been landing in the second half of the first every year can’t just be a coincidence. 

All of this exactly. They have invested heavily in infrastructure to scout and develop. They are trying to create a "Mets Way". Hold your laughter, please. Let's hope they are doing this the right way.

It is going to be very interesting to see what the Mets do with Carlos Betran. He seems to be a large part of the organization right now.

To me, Buck certainly seemed a bit ticked off and disinterested last night. Maybe I am reading into things a little. I know that Cohen is flying in to speak with the team today.

[Scott Dierking]

Damn, I thought I would just check in on the progress of Kumar Rocker. I missed have missed the TJ diagnosis earlier this summer, or forgot. Looks like the Mets got that one right.

 

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/kumar-rocker-injury-update-rangers-prospect-no-3-pick-in-2022-mlb-draft-to-undergo-tommy-john-surgery/

Texas Rangers pitching prospect Kumar Rocker will have Tommy John surgery later this week, the team announced Tuesday. Rocker, the No. 3 pick in the 2022 draft, did not sign with the New York Mets as the No. 10 pick in the 2021 draft because the team walked away after it saw something it did not like in his physical.

[Scott Dierking]

If you are a fan of tanking, currently, the Mets sit in the #9 slot for the 2024 draft. But, because they have exceeded the luxury tax, they would be penalized 10 slots in the first round (just like they were in this year's draft). 

A huge butt here, if the Mets were fall to the 6 slot in the draft, that penalty would kick in for the 2nd round. Currently, the Mets are 4 games "out" of that six slot.

[Maynard13]

9 hours ago, JohnJ said:

Alvarez with a lazer 431' hr in the 10th 👊

YAY and the New New York Mets bullpen BLOW yet another game in 2023.  The asterisk on the 2023 NY Mets season: The Bullpen sucked the life out of this team. Thanks Billy Eppler. He'll be demoted to coffee gopher next year. 

[Maynard13]

32 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

If you are a fan of tanking, currently, the Mets sit in the #9 slot for the 2024 draft. But, because they have exceeded the luxury tax, they would be penalized 10 slots in the first round (just like they were in this year's draft). 

A huge butt here, if the Mets were fall to the 6 slot in the draft, that penalty would kick in for the 2nd round. Currently, the Mets are 4 games "out" of that six slot.

Lose to Win!  We definitely need that first round draft pick. And they'd definitely go pitching with  it.  They have very few options in the farm system.  Cohen and Co. will have to but pitchers for next year. Midrange guys that go for around 15-20M like they had in 2022.  Anybody have a prognosis what the pitching staff would be like next year?  Quintana, Peterson, Mygil. no way they enter the Shotani sweepstakes after this year's nonsense. . That would cost 1/2 billion easy. 

[Ruby2]

10 hours ago, Anthony Jet said:

Team did the right thing selling, hoping buck makes it through the “retool”. Like him a lot 

Hes ok. Best we've had in a while, but that doesnt say much to me. Bullpen decisions/Vogey love continue to baffle me. Ideally he gets another shot next year with Eppler gone.

One day this franchise will do the smart thing and make Gary Cohen manager.

[Scott Dierking]

25 minutes ago, Maynard13 said:

Lose to Win!  We definitely need that first round draft pick. And they'd definitely go pitching with  it.  They have very few options in the farm system.  Cohen and Co. will have to but pitchers for next year. Midrange guys that go for around 15-20M like they had in 2022.  Anybody have a prognosis what the pitching staff would be like next year?  Quintana, Peterson, Mygil. no way they enter the Shotani sweepstakes after this year's nonsense. . That would cost 1/2 billion easy. 

Senga, Quintana, Peterson, Megill are your mainstay SP that are still under contract. Butto fits that description as well.

Mike Vasil probably is with the club in a SP mode at the start of next year.

Mets are connected to Yamamoto from Japan, as a free agent SP.

Here are some of the top FA pitchers that are available right now: Ohtahni (don't see this happening) Kershaw (mets wont go there), Urias (I would love him), Snell ( sometimes a head case), Nola (some interest there), Giolito (maybe). There are others, of course.

[Rangers9]

I saw an analysis on SNY last night that gave stats based on years of trades like these for prospects and the success rate of unproven players dealt for experienced veterans. Like the kind we saw yesterday at trading deadline. It was based on over 500 transactions over years. The success rate is very low many players don't even play one game in MLB and the number of impact players even starters is low like 10%. I haven't really followed the White Sox that much but it seems they've basically traded away much of their pitching staff. 

[Scott Dierking]

42 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

I saw an analysis on SNY last night that gave stats based on years of trades like these for prospects and the success rate of unproven players dealt for experienced veterans. Like the kind we saw yesterday at trading deadline. It was based on over 500 transactions over years. The success rate is very low many players don't even play one game in MLB and the number of impact players even starters is low like 10%. I haven't really followed the White Sox that much but it seems they've basically traded away much of their pitching staff. 

Very true. That is part of the reason why you try and stock up on as many good prospects as you can, and hope to hit the odds.

I don't have any measurement to demonstrate this opinion, but I would believe that the analytics that have developed in the last half decade or so have have improved the odds slightly.

[Jetsfan80]

9 hours ago, Rangers9 said:

I'm still rooting for the team in 2023 watching games following them and don't appreciate stripping the squad like this and making them non competitive. 

Building a team the right away is not for the faint of heart.  Half measures - I.E. being just good enough to "be competitive" - is the exact WRONG way to do things.  You're either competing or you're tanking/rebuilding in pro sports.  This team wasn't competing with the Braves the way it was constructed at the start of 2023.  Stripping it down was the right call.

Just try to avoid watching for the next year and a half would be my suggestion.  Focus on the young guys at the lower levels.  Attend a game in Syracuse or Brooklyn instead of at Citi Field like @RutgersJetFan alluded to.  This team will be fun to watch once we get through the slog that will be the 2024 season.

[RutgersJetFan]

2 hours ago, Scott Dierking said:

Senga, Quintana, Peterson, Megill are your mainstay SP that are still under contract. Butto fits that description as well.

Mike Vasil probably is with the club in a SP mode at the start of next year.

With the way Dominic Hamel is pitching I think they will be looking to give him a shot around this time next year.

Also IMO I bet they call Butto back up for bullpen work before the season is done.

[Rangers9]

The Mets won 101 games last year and had imo the talent to compete this year and in 2024. They had key injuries like Diaz that hit them hard. Their best hitter injured and hit below .200 for two months plus unimpressive years from key players. Both Scherzer and esp Verlander pitching better and with Diaz they were supposed to be the keys to 2023. Look I was never a fan of over bidding for star players and trying to buy a championship. Just look what it does to other teams. The owner of the A's sold almost all of his MLB assets and made a competitive team into the worst record in MLB and now is moving the team somewhere else. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Scott Dierking]

31 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

The Mets won 101 games last year and had imo the talent to compete this year and in 2024. They had key injuries like Diaz that hit them hard. Their best hitter injured and hit below .200 for two months plus unimpressive years from key players. Both Scherzer and esp Verlander pitching better and with Diaz they were supposed to be the keys to 2023. Look I was never a fan of over bidding for star players and trying to buy a championship. Just look what it does to other teams. The owner of the A's sold almost all of his MLB assets and made a competitive team into the worst record in MLB and now is moving the team somewhere else. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It was a shot in the dark. Everything needed to go perfect for them, and it did not. 

Last year, it nearly went perfect, and they still got worn down by those stinking Braves. The mid-season acquisitions by Eppler last year did not help, and they had their foot on the gas all year just to try to win the division. It seemed to just take all the sap out of them.

This year needed to be nearly perfect as well. But it started less so. The loss of Diaz was a domino that started the fall. Then Quintana before spring training. Then Verlander right as camp was about to break. The starting pitching just taxed the bullpen so much early, it was never able to catch its breath. That and so many slumps in the line-up. Marte has not been right all year. This line-up just does not mesh and does not have 5-tool players. 

This is not the first owner to tear down a club. But it has to be the first that tore down, but spent almost $60mil immediately in getting the organization propped back up. Or, giving it. a chance.

 

 

[RutgersJetFan]

48 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

The Mets won 101 games last year and had imo the talent to compete this year and in 2024. They had key injuries like Diaz that hit them hard. Their best hitter injured and hit below .200 for two months plus unimpressive years from key players. Both Scherzer and esp Verlander pitching better and with Diaz they were supposed to be the keys to 2023. Look I was never a fan of over bidding for star players and trying to buy a championship. Just look what it does to other teams. The owner of the A's sold almost all of his MLB assets and made a competitive team into the worst record in MLB and now is moving the team somewhere else. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The long term vision of Cohen has always been to build a winning farm system and plug in holes via free agency. That was not possible when he bought the franchise because the farm was incredibly top heavy with only a few top guys in the pipeline, and the front office was very clear from the outset that the plan was to hand out large short-term deals so the team could be competitive while they rebuilt the farm. There is evidence of this all over, aside from the front office messaging itself, they've traded away almost no prospects for any big names since he bought the team. The amount of investing he's done in the scouting department has been astronomical. It's been FA's and they held on to everyone. Great example of this is them not budging on Alvarez and Baty this time last year, and in hindsight boy was that the right call. They saw an opportunity to sell high and accelerate a plan that was quite literally already in place by a couple years rather than roll a set of dice that from a probablistic standpoint was not worth it. The team was already headed in this direction, it was just going to happen by around 2027 and this last week puts them 2-3 years ahead of schedule. 

I'm not really sure what you're incessantly complaining about. The overwhelming evidence in this current era of baseball is that sustained winning gets built on young athleticism and there is no sign that's changing any time soon. And again, the Mets have been chasing this approach since Cohen bought the team, it's just not something that happens in one year for the most obvious of reasons. 

[RutgersJetFan]

11 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

 This line-up just does not mesh

 

 

I don't think there's anyone else out there that has a better pulse on the locker room than Gelb, and he had been talking for weeks about how this year's team did not feel like last year. Guys were not arguing or anything, but Gelb talked a lot about how the personalities simply were not coming together like previous years.

That's why I hope they keep Buck around. Him and Lindor will be great voices to have over the next 3 years when they bring all these kids up.

[RutgersJetFan]

2 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Building a team the right away is not for the faint of heart.  Half measures - I.E. being just good enough to "be competitive" - is the exact WRONG way to do things.  You're either competing or you're tanking/rebuilding in pro sports.  This team wasn't competing with the Braves the way it was constructed at the start of 2023.  Stripping it down was the right call.

Just try to avoid watching for the next year and a half would be my suggestion.  Focus on the young guys at the lower levels.  Attend a game in Syracuse or Brooklyn instead of at Citi Field like @RutgersJetFan alluded to.  This team will be fun to watch once we get through the slog that will be the 2024 season.

I think 2024 might be more fun than some think. The Mets still have a decent young core of offense, a few good bullpen guys (Raley and Diaz), and even some potential with the rotation if they can find a couple of the right guys in FA (numbers/trends say Senga maybe be ace-level next year). Who knows? Maybe Cohen hands out a couple one-year deals to keep fans coming to the games. Not a championship year for sure, but amidst all of that we'll likely get to see Acuna, Gilbert, and maybe even Mauricio and Parada in the second half of the summer and I'd certainly enjoy a few beers on a summer afternoon to watch those guys. 

[Scott Dierking]

16 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

I don't think there's anyone else out there that has a better pulse on the locker room than Gelb, and he had been talking for weeks about how this year's team did not feel like last year. Guys were not arguing or anything, but Gelb talked a lot about how the personalities simply were not coming together like previous years.

That's why I hope they keep Buck around. Him and Lindor will be great voices to have over the next 3 years when they bring all these kids up.

Yup, I heard the same. Just look at the pitching group last year, as they would all gather and talk in the dugout after a starter was taken out. Didn't happen this year. What is different in the equation? Verlander. But, that does not seem to make sense. Not sure what happened there.

Lindor is the chosen guy by the organization to be the owner's mouthpiece. He is also the one hustling and communicating in the field. Wonder how  his teammates think about him? Another thing, very odd that Alonso has not been extended yet. 

[Scott Dierking]

1 minute ago, RutgersJetFan said:

I think 2024 might be more fun than some think. The Mets still have a decent young core of offense, a few good bullpen guys (Raley and Diaz), and even some potential with the rotation if they can find a couple of the right guys in FA (numbers/trends say Senga maybe be ace-level next year). Who knows? Maybe Cohen hands out a couple one-year deals to keep fans coming to the games. Not a championship year for sure, but amidst all of that we'll likely get to see Acuna, Gilbert, and maybe even Mauricio and Parada in the second half of the summer and I'd certainly enjoy a few beers on a summer afternoon to watch those guys. 

87 wins get you to the playoff these days. You don't have to be a great club to achieve that, but the NL has gotten more competitive. 

[RutgersJetFan]

1 minute ago, Scott Dierking said:

87 wins get you to the playoff these days. You don't have to be a great club to achieve that, but the NL has gotten more competitive. 

I was going to say maybe they sneak into one of the WC's but every time I open my big stupid mouth I jinx everything.

[JohnJ]

Moving forward with Max and Verlander would have been a mistake in my opinion. Max showed signs of faltering at the end last year and it continued this year. Verlander was better, but at some point the same will happen to him.

The time was right to move them to get a good return.

Peterson was a huge disappointment and who knows about Megill?

It was time to admit defeat and regroup. They'll pick their spots patiently and will sign guys too. It's not all bad

[RutgersJetFan]

7 minutes ago, JohnJ said:

Moving forward with Max and Verlander would have been a mistake in my opinion. Max showed signs of faltering at the end last year and it continued this year. Verlander was better, but at some point the same will happen to him.

The time was right to move them to get a good return.

Peterson was a huge disappointment and who knows about Megill?

It was time to admit defeat and regroup. They'll pick their spots patiently and will sign guys too. It's not all bad

I was on the fence. I think the Mets had enough players to retool and compete next year and prior to the Verlander trade they had already brought in a great handful of prospects. He was pitching very well and certainly looks like he'll be fine next year.

The fact that they got the top 2 prospects from the Astros system after the fact means the Mets sold high and I guess I'm fine with that. Actively trying for 2024 with this current team probably would have been a longshot anyways. I think when all is said and done we will probably look at the Verlander trade like the Dickey trade and that one worked out incredibly well for the Mets.

[JohnJ]

4 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

I was on the fence. I think the Mets had enough players to retool and compete next year and prior to the Verlander trade they had already brought in a great handful of prospects. He was pitching very well and certainly looks like he'll be fine next year.

The fact that they got the top 2 prospects from the Astros system after the fact means the Mets sold high and I guess I'm fine with that. Actively trying for 2024 with this current team probably would have been a longshot anyways. I think when all is said and done we will probably look at the Verlander trade like the Dickey trade and that one worked out incredibly well for the Mets.

Plus you don't know what's gonna happen with Diaz. It was time to retool and get younger. I'm glad they did. Really think it needed to be done

[Anthony Jet]

6 hours ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Minus the cocaine.

But why?

[Rangers9]

Gelbs and Keith did the game from KC yesterday. I didn't listen to the entire game so I don't know everything said. But what I heard was Keith being more hesitant about declaring this as good for the team. He mentioned Cohen was traveling to KC to talk with players and try to explain his pov and plan for the team with them. Gelbs was positive and kind of lauded Cohen. It's not the first time he's done this with Mets management. I remember him going out of his way to do the same with Brodie Van W. Saying how he was thinking outside the box etc. And you know that wasn't true. 

[JohnJ]

5 hours ago, Maynard13 said:

YAY and the New New York Mets bullpen BLOW yet another game in 2023.  The asterisk on the 2023 NY Mets season: The Bullpen sucked the life out of this team. Thanks Billy Eppler. He'll be demoted to coffee gopher next year. 

I was gonna follow up with something along those lines as it was happening but that balk thing in the end was so pathetic I didn't even care lmao

[Scott Dierking]

2 minutes ago, JohnJ said:

I was gonna follow up with something along those lines as it was happening but that balk thing in the end was so pathetic I didn't even care lmao

Stearns and Eppler have a relationship. There may not be a divorce. 

[JohnJ]

16 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

Stearns and Eppler have a relationship. There may not be a divorce. 

I meant more about the loss and how they lost. Not about Eppler. Kinda neutral there til we see how that shakes out. Don't like to second guess if I can help it, especially the Mgr.

[JohnJ]

26 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

Gelbs and Keith did the game from KC yesterday. I didn't listen to the entire game so I don't know everything said. But what I heard was Keith being more hesitant about declaring this as good for the team. He mentioned Cohen was traveling to KC to talk with players and try to explain his pov and plan for the team with them. Gelbs was positive and kind of lauded Cohen. It's not the first time he's done this with Mets management. I remember him going out of his way to do the same with Brodie Van W. Saying how he was thinking outside the box etc. And you know that wasn't true. 

So Keith wasn't sure, Gotcha. Anyone else in the media not sure either? What about Gary, Ron, and Zeile? 

[RutgersJetFan]

1 hour ago, JohnJ said:

So Keith wasn't sure, Gotcha. Anyone else in the media not sure either? What about Gary, Ron, and Zeile? 

Keith was kinda devastated for the players on this year's team, not the moves themselves. Went deep into how they would have to find a purpose every day. Said for the young guys that's easy but if you're a veteran yesterday probably cut deep.

[JohnJ]

36 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Keith was kinda devastated for the players on this year's team, not the moves themselves. Went deep into how they would have to find a purpose every day. Said for the young guys that's easy but if you're a veteran yesterday probably cut deep.

Keith is no spring chicken and either is Buck, or Cohen for that matter. Coming off the excitement of competing last year and the hope for this year it was a damn bummer for everyone, especially those guys I bet, how it went starting with Diaz. I was bummed. 

I look forward to seeing how they move forward and enjoy following teams trying to develop into a winner. So I'm over it. I don't care about what the media says about it either lol

[RutgersJetFan]

28 minutes ago, JohnJ said:

Keith is no spring chicken and either is Buck, or Cohen for that matter. Coming off the excitement of competing last year and the hope for this year it was a damn bummer for everyone, especially those guys I bet, how it went starting with Diaz. I was bummed. 

I look forward to seeing how they move forward and enjoy following teams trying to develop into a winner. So I'm over it. I don't care about what the media says about it either lol

Same. I really don’t understand what we’re supposed to feel otherwise, pity? This squad did nothing but consistently underperform for a year and a half.

Scherzer was in his press conference today complaining that they pulled back on being competitive and that this soured his Mets tenure. Like hey jackoff, you crashed when it mattered most last year and then got suspended when the team needed you most this year. Maybe next time don’t do that.