New York Mets 2023 Thread (LFGM)

[Anthony Jet]

10 hours ago, neckdemon said:

The Mets are a complete embarrassment this year. There's no way in hell that they should be anything but sellers for the trade deadline. Most expensive roster ever....lol what a sh*tshow. 

There’s nothing of significance to really sell if we are being honest. The best they could do is hold back a lot of money to cash strapped teams on marginal upgrades and effectively buy prospects 

[TuscanyTile2]

9 hours ago, Anthony Jet said:

There’s nothing of significance to really sell if we are being honest. The best they could do is hold back a lot of money to cash strapped teams on marginal upgrades and effectively buy prospects 

 

[Anthony Jet]

15 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

 

David Robertson is your only prototypical deadline player that is sought out. The rest of the guys they have to trade either are owed a lot of money or don’t love the needle much for other teams. It’s gonna be interesting to see what they do. I’m sure if they’ll eat substantial money on max or gerlander they can get a decent haul but not sure about anyone else bringing anything back worth while 

[TuscanyTile2]

4 minutes ago, Anthony Jet said:

David Robertson is your only prototypical deadline player that is sought out. The rest of the guys they have to trade either are owed a lot of money or don’t love the needle much for other teams. It’s gonna be interesting to see what they do. I’m sure if they’ll eat substantial money on max or gerlander they can get a decent haul but not sure about anyone else bringing anything back worth while 

If they can get back a good prospect for each then it would be worth it trade both of them.  There has to be a point where Cohen isn't going to eat all this money though.  He already paid off Cano.  He's going to eat another $80M for these 2 guys?

[Lith]

16 hours ago, JiF said:

Yeah but the way it bounced up and hit him in the jaw? 

Got so fed up and flipped the game off after that play that I did not realize it hit him in the face and then caromed across the infield. 

[JustInFudge]

11 minutes ago, Lith said:

Got so fed up and flipped the game off after that play that I did not realize it hit him in the face and then caromed across the infield. 

LFGM!!!!

[section314]

I would move anyone on this team but Baty, Alvarez, Lindor and Nimmo. Pretty easy call in my mind.

[Rangers9]

22 hours ago, section314 said:

I would move anyone on this team but Baty, Alvarez, Lindor and Nimmo. Pretty easy call in my mind.

The biggest question mark on the team is Alonso and he has a contract extension coming up. But the only one on your list I'd make no trade is Alvarez. 

[section314]

Just an Incredible stat mentioned by Gary last night in the 8th inning last night. After a pitch to McNeil, I believe, he said the White Sox pitchers had just thrown their 200th pitch of the game. 

[Jetsfan80]

55 minutes ago, section314 said:

Just an Incredible stat mentioned by Gary last night in the 8th inning last night. After a pitch to McNeil, I believe, he said the White Sox pitchers had just thrown their 200th pitch of the game. 

And yet we still almost lost, lol.

Reminds me of stories about conversations surrounding the '62 Mets.  

"Al Jackson pitched a 1-hitter last night."

"Great!  Did we win?"

[Lith]

2 hours ago, section314 said:

Just an Incredible stat mentioned by Gary last night in the 8th inning last night. After a pitch to McNeil, I believe, he said the White Sox pitchers had just thrown their 200th pitch of the game. 

We are usually the ones with the ridiculous pitch counts.  Maybe not 200 by the 8th inning.  But so many games this year our starter is approaching 100 in the 5th inning.  And then you look at the other guy and he is in the 60s.  We put so much pressure on a mediocre bullpen that games like last night are inevitable on occasion. 

The other stat mentioned during the broadcast (I had the Sox broadcast in Chicago, so not sure if it was mentioned on SNY) Mets are one of three teams with 2 losses this season while scoring 10+ runs.  We almost became the first to lose 3 times.

[section314]

28 minutes ago, Lith said:

We are usually the ones with the ridiculous pitch counts.  Maybe not 200 by the 8th inning.  But so many games this year our starter is approaching 100 in the 5th inning.  And then you look at the other guy and he is in the 60s.  We put so much pressure on a mediocre bullpen that games like last night are inevitable on occasion. 

The other stat mentioned during the broadcast (I had the Sox broadcast in Chicago, so not sure if it was mentioned on SNY) Mets are one of three teams with 2 losses this season while scoring 10+ runs.  We almost became the first to lose 3 times.

Agreed. Carrasco was up 6-0 and took 55 pitches to get through the 3rd. If Cubs trade Bellinger, wonder if they bring up Pete Crow Armstrong for the rest of the year? That would be another kick on the gonads in a year full of them. How are you? Summer going good? Things pretty much status quo out here. Just booked our flights for Denver.

[Lith]

38 minutes ago, section314 said:

Agreed. Carrasco was up 6-0 and took 55 pitches to get through the 3rd. If Cubs trade Bellinger, wonder if they bring up Pete Crow Armstrong for the rest of the year? That would be another kick on the gonads in a year full of them. How are you? Summer going good? Things pretty much status quo out here. Just booked our flights for Denver.

Summer is going well.  I will be at Wrigley on Friday.  Maybe the Cubs move Bellinger in next day or two and I can see Crow-Armstrong's debut.  In which case he probably gets 4 hits including a walk off.

Heading out to Jersey in September for the Pats game. Gonna be at Max's tailgate.  No other road trips planned right now, although I am trying to work something out so I can get to Denver on business in October, in which case I will catch the game solo.

[maury77]

45 minutes ago, Lith said:

Summer is going well.  I will be at Wrigley on Friday.  Maybe the Cubs move Bellinger in next day or two and I can see Crow-Armstrong's debut.  In which case he probably gets 4 hits including a walk off.

Heading out to Jersey in September for the Pats game. Gonna be at Max's tailgate.  No other road trips planned right now, although I am trying to work something out so I can get to Denver on business in October, in which case I will catch the game solo.

I'm hitting Dallas this year. 

[Lith]

1 hour ago, maury77 said:

I'm hitting Dallas this year. 

I went to Dallas in 2015 for a Sunday Night game.  We stayed at a little dive motel -- like a Motel 6 or something that was right across the street from the stadium,.  $200 plus a night for a fleabag that was the only hotel within easy walking distance of the stadium.  Hotel sucked, but the tailgate in the hotel parking lot was awesome.  Made it worth spending a night in the dive.  Not sure if the hotel even exists anymore.  We had a great time.  Tailgated all afternoon Sunday for the night game.    Won it on a last second FG.  I was disappointed in Jerry's world, and the hotel sucked, but we had a blast. 

Hope you have as much fun.  A win always helps.

[Grandy]

Season has been really rough, but I'd be lying if I said our young players don't give me hope for the future.

Francisco Alvarez has been a joy to watch this year. Just such an incredible talent, and every source has talked about his next level dedication and work ethic. So excited to see where his career goes from here.

[Scott Dierking]

7 hours ago, Grandy said:

Season has been really rough, but I'd be lying if I said our young players don't give me hope for the future.

Francisco Alvarez has been a joy to watch this year. Just such an incredible talent, and every source has talked about his next level dedication and work ethic. So excited to see where his career goes from here.

Good conversation on SNY the other day about how the pitch clock may be affecting older (read Scherzer, Verlander) pitchers more than their younger counterparts. Both pitchers have had games where they just have those innings that they just can't close out. Either the extra tail is not on the "close 'em out" fastball, or the slider hangs.

With the new clock implementation, it may very much be a conditioning thing, and older pitchers may not have that edge in a marathon inning of 20+ pitches.

[Jetsfan80]

8 hours ago, Grandy said:

Season has been really rough, but I'd be lying if I said our young players don't give me hope for the future.

Francisco Alvarez has been a joy to watch this year. Just such an incredible talent, and every source has talked about his next level dedication and work ethic. So excited to see where his career goes from here.

Yeah its definitely not all doom and gloom like it was under the Wilpon's for much of the late 2000s and 2010s.  Negativity is just more fun to me since that's what I'm used to as a Mets & Jets fan, lol.  

[Lith]

4 hours ago, Scott Dierking said:

Good conversation on SNY the other day about how the pitch clock may be affecting older (read Scherzer, Verlander) pitchers more than their younger counterparts. Both pitchers have had games where they just have those innings that they just can't close out. Either the extra tail is not on the "close 'em out" fastball, or the slider hangs.

With the new clock implementation, it may very much be a conditioning thing, and older pitchers may not have that edge in a marathon inning of 20+ pitches.

You wonder if at some point, part of the strategy, especially with these older pitchers is to take a mound visit in the middle of a longer inning just to provide a breather.  Or intentionally take a ball if you trust your control and need a little time in a long inning.  Either than or ask the grounds crew to accidentally turn on the sprinklers,  But that could only work at home.

[Rangers9]

So Pete Alonso is hitting .204 for the season. One theory on this is he was injured bone bruise and sprain on left wrist on 6/9 and expected to be out 3 weeks but he came back in 10 days. In June he hit .152 and so far in July .114. So maybe it has to do with that coming back too soon after injury. 

[Lith]

Not sure what we could get for him given the salary. But don't you just know if SF acquires him, he probably goes 9-2 with a sub 2.00 ERA over the last two months.

 

[Rangers9]

Alonso went 2/4 in Boston split game. I don't see him hitting .204 you'd expect a vast improvement going into last 2 months of season. If you want to try to understand Mets poor season so far part of it injuries to two key players I think. Alonso and Diaz. Diaz was best relief pitcher in MLB last season and imo key reason Mets won over 100 games. But if he was healthy would he have been that good. That's the question. Or was last season just one great season we don't know how he'd have pitched this year he had been good but not this good in previous years and he's been terrible too. In 2019 imo he's the sole reason Mets failed to make the playoffs and he had some of the worse numbers of any relief pitcher in MLB history. But last season he was great. Diaz could return in Sept. Maybe. 

[Scott Dierking]

21 hours ago, Lith said:

Not sure what we could get for him given the salary. But don't you just know if SF acquires him, he probably goes 9-2 with a sub 2.00 ERA over the last two months.

 

It really becomes a story of how much salary is Cohen willing to eat. Say he is willing to eat half his salary, you start here:

https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=harris003kyl

Doubt the Giants trade him, as he is their top prospect. But, throw in a bunch of money, maybe. He is close to MLB ready, but out with a hamstring currently.

You don't throw in much money and you start here:

https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=black-000mas

Mets finally have some arms coming in the system, Tidwell, Vasil, Sproat, Hamel, but they are a ways off.

If they can dump a salary, would love to see them bring in Urias, especially that could happen if the Dodgers sign Ohtani. Mets have also been connected to Yaraboto, another Japanese pitcher, but only 24.

[section314]

Mets traded Robertson to the Marlins for 18 yr old Marco Vargas, a middle infielder and 19  yr old Ronald Hernandez a switch hitting C. Both are well regarded prospects by evaluators, and many of them feel Vargas can turn into a top prospect. 

[Anthony Jet]

1 hour ago, section314 said:

Mets traded Robertson to the Marlins for 18 yr old Marco Vargas, a middle infielder and 19  yr old Ronald Hernandez a switch hitting C. Both are well regarded prospects by evaluators, and many of them feel Vargas can turn into a top prospect. 

That was our best asset to trade. Hopefully we get a decent return. 

[SAM SAM HE'S OUR MAN]

[Rangers9]

Maybe the prospects the Mets received from Miami are good ones but with Diaz out for season or most of the season Robertson did a good job filling in as closer. He was usually effective. So the Mets are 6 under .500 have not shown the ability to win regularly or have a big winning streak needed to get a wild card. But they right now don't have anyone to fill Robertson's job and none of them like Ottavino has been effective. Robertson is the one guy I don't trade at this time. 

[Ruby2]

I'm fine with the trade. That being said Eppler absolutely has to be fired at the end of the year. You would think that would be obvious. But it was also obvious that this guy had no track record that would warrant another GM shot, yet here we are... how are the smartest people in the world so fricking dumb?

[Scott Dierking]

4 hours ago, section314 said:

Mets traded Robertson to the Marlins for 18 yr old Marco Vargas, a middle infielder and 19  yr old Ronald Hernandez a switch hitting C. Both are well regarded prospects by evaluators, and many of them feel Vargas can turn into a top prospect. 

Baseball Prospectus seems to like him:

 

Vargas is an extremely interesting pickup for the Mets in exchange for a rental as he’s posted an .899 OPS across 33 games this season at 18 years old in the Rookie-level Florida Complex League. According to Baseball Prospectus’ editor-in-chief Craig Goldstein, Vargas was a borderline candidate for their recent Midseason Top-50 prospects list as his stock has taken off over the last few months.

[RutgersJetFan]

5 hours ago, Scott Dierking said:

Baseball Prospectus seems to like him:

 

Vargas is an extremely interesting pickup for the Mets in exchange for a rental as he’s posted an .899 OPS across 33 games this season at 18 years old in the Rookie-level Florida Complex League. According to Baseball Prospectus’ editor-in-chief Craig Goldstein, Vargas was a borderline candidate for their recent Midseason Top-50 prospects list as his stock has taken off over the last few months.

He will be a top 100 prospect next April. For a one-year deal to a bullpen pitcher they were hoping would just be a solid setup guy that is a fantastic return.

[Beerfish]

The issue is, what kid of team are you?  Do you want to contend or go all tampa bay, baltimore  develop?   Teams that try to do both at once usually fail.

Do you guys want to tear it down and eat a few more bad years to develop assets?

[Scott Dierking]

14 hours ago, Beerfish said:

The issue is, what kid of team are you?  Do you want to contend or go all tampa bay, baltimore  develop?   Teams that try to do both at once usually fail.

Do you guys want to tear it down and eat a few more bad years to develop assets?

The Dodgers are the model they are trying to emulate.

Stock with talent through vigorous scouting, invest in analytics to develop that talent and use your system to promote players to reinvigorate the talent pool continually, and sell some of those chips in years that you are close and go for it.

The Wilpons had the entire Mets system run on a shoestring. Behind in many areas of player development. The well was mostly dry. Unfortunately, it is a long process to prime that pump. 

They tried to go the "quick fix" route of propping up the mlb club with expensive talent, to at least sate the fans, but it has failed. 

The biggest misstep they made under the Cohen ownership was the trade for Javier Baez in year one. They gave up some good talent in that trade. I think that was Cohen trying to make a splash that year, and it stalled the process a little bit. 

Gotta have David Stearns this off-season. So much hinges on that.

[Scott Dierking]

14 hours ago, RutgersJetFan said:

He will be a top 100 prospect next April. For a one-year deal to a bullpen pitcher they were hoping would just be a solid setup guy that is a fantastic return.

They can still re-sign Robertson this off-season, if they love each other so much. 

[section314]

45 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

The Dodgers are the model they are trying to emulate.

Stock with talent through vigorous scouting, invest in analytics to develop that talent and use your system to promote players to reinvigorate the talent pool continually, and sell some of those chips in years that you are close and go for it.

The Wilpons had the entire Mets system run on a shoestring. Behind in many areas of player development. The well was mostly dry. Unfortunately, it is a long process to prime that pump. 

They tried to go the "quick fix" route of propping up the mlb club with expensive talent, to at least sate the fans, but it has failed. 

The biggest misstep they made under the Cohen ownership was the trade for Javier Baez in year one. They gave up some good talent in that trade. I think that was Cohen trying to make a splash that year, and it stalled the process a little bit. 

Gotta have David Stearns this off-season. So much hinges on that.

That’s why they can’t totally gut this crap team because if he really wants Stearns, that has to be his decision. However, hopefully  good news that Max wants to talk to Cohen about the future of the team. Pray that he tells Cohen he will waive his no trade.

[Rangers9]

We've seen in the past week that when Alonso hits the Mets win games. And he seems to be back after a below Mendoza line past two months. The only thing is the team needs relief pitching. It's possible that Scherzer and Verlander can put together a good last two months of the season if they're still around. It looks like maybe Raley is their new closer. And there's rumors he might be traded too.