New York Mets 2023 Thread (LFGM)

[Anthony Jet]

9 hours ago, Ruby2 said:

Hes ok. Best we've had in a while, but that doesnt say much to me. Bullpen decisions/Vogey love continue to baffle me. Ideally he gets another shot next year with Eppler gone.

One day this franchise will do the smart thing and make Gary Cohen manager.

Gary can never leave the booth. The one thing the Mets got that’s better than any other is the booth 

[Maynard13]

14 hours ago, Scott Dierking said:

Damn, I thought I would just check in on the progress of Kumar Rocker. I missed have missed the TJ diagnosis earlier this summer, or forgot. Looks like the Mets got that one right.

 

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/kumar-rocker-injury-update-rangers-prospect-no-3-pick-in-2022-mlb-draft-to-undergo-tommy-john-surgery/

Texas Rangers pitching prospect Kumar Rocker will have Tommy John surgery later this week, the team announced Tuesday. Rocker, the No. 3 pick in the 2022 draft, did not sign with the New York Mets as the No. 10 pick in the 2021 draft because the team walked away after it saw something it did not like in his physical.

Might have been his elbow. 

[Maynard13]

8 hours ago, Scott Dierking said:

Stearns and Eppler have a relationship. There may not be a divorce. 

They'll be a divorce. He'll just continue to live in the house.

[Maynard13]

15 hours ago, JiF said:

Mets fan buddy who is a Vol said he's got attitude like a modern day Lenny Dykstra.

Yeah this tape shows he got some swagger to him.  Nice to combo with Nimmo. Looks like he'd be a good fit to be the leftfielder and can move to center when Nimmo gets a little older.  

[Maynard13]

4 hours ago, Anthony Jet said:

Gary can never leave the booth. The one thing the Mets got that’s better than any other is the booth 

Glbbler Gebler whatever his name is who's doing the game tonight is nauseating. He's as bad as this team.  Did the Mets just give Gary the rest of the season off? Might as well have merci on the poor guy. This is just UNWATCHABLE.  Its reminiscent of the Wes Westrum days in the 60's. Who are these clowns on this team? This pitching staff has been pathetic all season but now it looks like a Div II college staff.  It's like they have 15 new players all of a sudden.   Hopefully they just continue to LOSE and get that #6 pick in 1st round. There has to be at the very least one of three top pitching prospects they can pluck out this upcoming draft.

[JohnJ]

Gelbs makes me miss Wayne Randazzo lol.

Gelbs is pretty good in the studio I think. When he's in there for the Mets and the Jets on Jets Nation. Play by play not so much

[Maynard13]

14 hours ago, Scott Dierking said:

All of this exactly. They have invested heavily in infrastructure to scout and develop. They are trying to create a "Mets Way". Hold your laughter, please. Let's hope they are doing this the right way.

It is going to be very interesting to see what the Mets do with Carlos Betran. He seems to be a large part of the organization right now.

To me, Buck certainly seemed a bit ticked off and disinterested last night. Maybe I am reading into things a little. I know that Cohen is flying in to speak with the team today.

What are the odds Buck is FIRED after this season and Beltran takes over in 2024? They're going full blown youngins.  Beltran would be a perfect mentor to these kiddies coming up over the next few years.  

 

[Scott Dierking]

There was a commonality that the Mets went hunting, when they filtered the prospects that they scoured for positional player prospects. Many of these prospects have strong pitch recognition and excellent bat to ball talent. The Mets seem to be seeking a specific type of line-up.

They want to wear down a pitcher. They want to make him throw strikes and waste away pitcher's pitches. They want to have a pitcher at 40+ pitches after 2 innings.

If you watched the Dodger series against the Mets, they worked Mets pitchers by having prolonged at bats. 

April 17 Peterson, 94 pitches, 6 innings (good job by Peterson)

April 18 Megill, 96 pitches, 5 innings (Megill struggles with finishing batter)

April 19 Scherzer,  47 pitches, 3 innings (sticky stuff game).

July 14 Verlander, 104pitches, 5 innings (they wore him down)

July 15 Senga, 103 pitches, 6 innings (great job by Senga, but they still worked him)

July 16 Scherzer 107 pitches, 7 innings (the 1-0 gem)

The Dodgers have Freeman, Will Smith and Max Muncy who are dangerous hitters, but also pests. Nimmo is one too.

But, especially with a pitch clock now, if you can wear down pitchers in innings, you will get to them.

This is a skill set the Mets seem to be after.

[RutgersJetFan]

Two things worth noting from last night's game:

Senga had a disastrous start and fought back to pitch great the rest of the game. IMO that's what separates a top of the rotation guy from a 4th or 5th pitcher.

Cohen stated he knows the team will need pitching next year. Will be interesting to see how and who he spends on. The pitching FA class next year is actually pretty good and I wonder if he'll give out some contracts to some tier 2 guys.

 

[32EBoozer]

8 hours ago, Scott Dierking said:

But, especially with a pitch clock now, if you can wear down pitchers in innings, you will get to them.

Excellent point. Never thought about how the pitch clock could wear down the pitcher as the pitch count rises. Throwing a mid-90’s FB or low-90’s slider every 30 seconds sounds exhausting 

[Lith]

18 hours ago, Maynard13 said:

Glbbler Gebler whatever his name is who's doing the game tonight is nauseating. He's as bad as this team.  Did the Mets just give Gary the rest of the season off? Might as well have merci on the poor guy. This is just UNWATCHABLE.  Its reminiscent of the Wes Westrum days in the 60's. Who are these clowns on this team? This pitching staff has been pathetic all season but now it looks like a Div II college staff.  It's like they have 15 new players all of a sudden.   Hopefully they just continue to LOSE and get that #6 pick in 1st round. There has to be at the very least one of three top pitching prospects they can pluck out this upcoming draft.

Kind of like watching the Jets during a tank year.  No pressure, chill out and watch a ball game, but don't sweat the outcome.

[Lith]

2 hours ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Two things worth noting from last night's game:

Senga had a disastrous start and fought back to pitch great the rest of the game. IMO that's what separates a top of the rotation guy from a 4th or 5th pitcher.

Cohen stated he knows the team will need pitching next year. Will be interesting to see how and who he spends on. The pitching FA class next year is actually pretty good and I wonder if he'll give out some contracts to some tier 2 guys.

 

Tier 2 guys and invest in the bullpen.  We have Diaz coming back, build up the pen in front of him.  The way the game is played now, it is the bullpen pitching most of the high stress situations anyway.  We gave the ball to our $40M starters this season, and then turned it over to a $3M relief pitcher with the game on the line.  

 

[Anthony Jet]

1 hour ago, Lith said:

Kind of like watching the Jets during a tank year.  No pressure, chill out and watch a ball game, but don't sweat the outcome.

Wait, there are jets seasons that aren’t tank years?

[Rangers9]

Cohen is saying the Mets only had an 11% chance to make the playoffs. He also said something to the extent that it's his team and he can do whatever he wants with it. 

[Anthony Jet]

9 hours ago, Rangers9 said:

Cohen is saying the Mets only had an 11% chance to make the playoffs. He also said something to the extent that it's his team and he can do whatever he wants with it. 

Love cohen. For better or worse. Give me a guy with testicular fortitude any day of the week 

[32EBoozer]

Mets mailed it in against KC.

Question: By unloading some contracts, have we been able to get to a lower luxury tax threshold and will the 10 spot MLB Draft penalty be modified?

Picking 10 spots lower hurt this past Draft… considering we will be picking a lot higher next Draft I hope the penalty is modified 

@Lith @RutgersJetFan @Anthony Jet @Scott Dierking @Maynard13

[Maynard13]

2 hours ago, 32EBoozer said:

Mets mailed it in against KC.

Question: By unloading some contracts, have we been able to get to a lower luxury tax threshold and will the 10 spot MLB Draft penalty be modified?

Picking 10 spots lower hurt this past Draft… considering we will be picking a lot higher next Draft I hope the penalty is modified 

@Lith @RutgersJetFan @Anthony Jet @Scott Dierking @Maynard13

If they have the 6th worse record they keep the 6th spot in 1st round. Then in 2nd round they would drop back so lets tank!

[Maynard13]

16 hours ago, Lith said:

Kind of like watching the Jets during a tank year.  No pressure, chill out and watch a ball game, but don't sweat the outcome.

Easier said than done LOL 🤪 It's a conundrum of emotions. Win, play well, suck, lose, anything in between is a fail at this point.  Keeping that 1st round pick at hopefully #6 and not falling 10 spots back is a must in next year's draft.  They need pitching prospects.

[Maynard13]

On 8/3/2023 at 8:16 AM, Scott Dierking said:

There was a commonality that the Mets went hunting, when they filtered the prospects that they scoured for positional player prospects. Many of these prospects have strong pitch recognition and excellent bat to ball talent. The Mets seem to be seeking a specific type of line-up.

They want to wear down a pitcher. They want to make him throw strikes and waste away pitcher's pitches. They want to have a pitcher at 40+ pitches after 2 innings.

If you watched the Dodger series against the Mets, they worked Mets pitchers by having prolonged at bats. 

April 17 Peterson, 94 pitches, 6 innings (good job by Peterson)

April 18 Megill, 96 pitches, 5 innings (Megill struggles with finishing batter)

April 19 Scherzer,  47 pitches, 3 innings (sticky stuff game).

July 14 Verlander, 104pitches, 5 innings (they wore him down)

July 15 Senga, 103 pitches, 6 innings (great job by Senga, but they still worked him)

July 16 Scherzer 107 pitches, 7 innings (the 1-0 gem)

The Dodgers have Freeman, Will Smith and Max Muncy who are dangerous hitters, but also pests. Nimmo is one too.

But, especially with a pitch clock now, if you can wear down pitchers in innings, you will get to them.

This is a skill set the Mets seem to be after.

Good analysis. Lets look at the NEW movement in baseball by these teams who have really invested in the youth movement ( The Reds, Orioles, Pirates ) as opposed to say the Braves whose lineup is stacked with HR hitters and hit like 3-4 HR's a game. With the changes in pitching sequence, its much easier to steal. Speed, defense and getting on base are features these 3 teams have invested in. Seems like we are following that suit as well.

[TuscanyTile2]

1 minute ago, Maynard13 said:

Good analysis. Lets look at the NEW movement in baseball by these teams who have really invested in the youth movement ( The Reds, Orioles, Pirates ) as opposed to say the Braves whose lineup is stacked with HR hitters and hit like 3-4 HR's a game. With the changes in pitching sequence, its much easier to steal. Speed, defense and getting on base are features these 3 teams have invested in. Seems like we are following that suit as well.

The thing that's annoying is that each rule change (and there have been many in recent years) changes the way you'd want to build your ideal roster.  But it takes years to build a roster. 

[Maynard13]

14 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

The thing that's annoying is that each rule change (and there have been many in recent years) changes the way you'd want to build your ideal roster.  But it takes years to build a roster. 

True. But speed kills and now the emphasis is on speed and defense and the Mets did wonders in refining the farm with last year's draft and the picks they received from the Scherzer/Verlander trades.

[RutgersJetFan]

2 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

The thing that's annoying is that each rule change (and there have been many in recent years) changes the way you'd want to build your ideal roster.  But it takes years to build a roster. 

I think the rule changes were the icing on the cake for this era rather than the start of a new one. In hindsight the current game is a product of the steroid era ending, the new design of stadiums, and the payroll fallout from the '95 strike. I guess the DH in the NL too but that's only half the league. The shift rule and pitch clock just suppressed some things that had gotten out of hand because of those three things. I doubt there are more major rule changes coming for a while. The only possible thing on the horizon is extending the clock for the postseason but Manfred has said he doesn't think that's a good idea right now. What baseball is rolling with right now IMO it's going to be the way the game is for at least the next 15 years. 

And personally I'm pretty stoked about it. The game is fun as hell this year. Pitch clock is the best thing baseball has done since they lowered the mound.

[RutgersJetFan]

On 8/3/2023 at 8:16 AM, Scott Dierking said:

There was a commonality that the Mets went hunting, when they filtered the prospects that they scoured for positional player prospects. Many of these prospects have strong pitch recognition and excellent bat to ball talent. The Mets seem to be seeking a specific type of line-up.

They want to wear down a pitcher. They want to make him throw strikes and waste away pitcher's pitches. They want to have a pitcher at 40+ pitches after 2 innings.

If you watched the Dodger series against the Mets, they worked Mets pitchers by having prolonged at bats. 

April 17 Peterson, 94 pitches, 6 innings (good job by Peterson)

April 18 Megill, 96 pitches, 5 innings (Megill struggles with finishing batter)

April 19 Scherzer,  47 pitches, 3 innings (sticky stuff game).

July 14 Verlander, 104pitches, 5 innings (they wore him down)

July 15 Senga, 103 pitches, 6 innings (great job by Senga, but they still worked him)

July 16 Scherzer 107 pitches, 7 innings (the 1-0 gem)

The Dodgers have Freeman, Will Smith and Max Muncy who are dangerous hitters, but also pests. Nimmo is one too.

But, especially with a pitch clock now, if you can wear down pitchers in innings, you will get to them.

This is a skill set the Mets seem to be after.

If the Dodgers truly are their model, and all signs say they are, it'll be the ability to drive the long ball above all IMO. Probably why the Alonso stuff got shot down quick. Look what they've done with Nimmo this year. 

Also makes you wonder what they'll do with McNeil given all the infielders in the pipeline.

[JohnJ]

8 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

If the Dodgers truly are their model, and all signs say they are, it'll be the ability to drive the long ball above all IMO. Probably why the Alonso stuff got shot down quick. Look what they've done with Nimmo this year. 

Also makes you wonder what they'll do with McNeil given all the infielders in the pipeline.

Was wondering about Jeff too. McNeil at his best is a guy that can help wear down and stress pitchers. He gets frustrated easily though and loses consistency. Coming of the batting title I think that happened to him, again.

I'd like to keep him, he's a dawg and a competitor, and ultimately be a utility guy, depending on who's coming up in the short term. Would like to see the bench younger, more versatile, and productive also, of course 

[RutgersJetFan]

5 minutes ago, JohnJ said:

Was wondering about Jeff too. McNeil at his best is a guy that can help wear down and stress pitchers. He gets frustrated easily though and loses consistency. Coming of the batting title I think that happened to him, again.

I'd like to keep him, he's a dawg and a competitor, and ultimately be a utility guy, depending on who's coming up in the short term. Would like to see the bench younger, more versatile, and productive also, of course 

McNeil is awesome and a great throwback but he's 50 years too late to the game. A second baseman that can't put up runs or RBI's is almost a wasted slot in this era. There's a reason he didn't command a monster deal. Guy was 30 and coming off 2 batting titles in 4 years and can't command more than $50 million, that's really saying something about what MLB prioritizes now.

[Scott Dierking]

8 hours ago, 32EBoozer said:

Mets mailed it in against KC.

Question: By unloading some contracts, have we been able to get to a lower luxury tax threshold and will the 10 spot MLB Draft penalty be modified?

Picking 10 spots lower hurt this past Draft… considering we will be picking a lot higher next Draft I hope the penalty is modified 

@Lith @RutgersJetFan @Anthony Jet @Scott Dierking @Maynard13

They are still over the luxury threshold. As mentioned above, if they slip to #6 or lower, the 10 slot penalty will occur in the 2nd round. They are currently 3 games out of that 6 slot.

[Rangers9]

Look Baty might be a good prospect but he's been a disappointment as a starter offensively and defensively. He's in the .220s with under 30 rbis. And his defense not good. I'd have kept Escobar and platooned them. 

[32EBoozer]

2 hours ago, Scott Dierking said:

They are still over the luxury threshold.

I thought there were different levels of the luxury tax threshold…. Like level 1 is $280m - $320 Level 2 $320+m -$380m and where we landed at $400+mil

[doitny]

this is brutal. this team is going to give up 10 runs a game for the rest of the year.

[TuscanyTile2]

10 minutes ago, doitny said:

this is brutal. this team is going to give up 10 runs a game for the rest of the year.

I want a top 5 pick (so the 2nd round is where we drop 10 spots)

[doitny]

1 hour ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I want a top 5 pick (so the 2nd round is where we drop 10 spots)

i thought we drop 10 spots if we pick 15th or higher as a penalty for going over the luxury tax in rd 1?

[Scott Dierking]

Competitive Balance Tax

Definition

Each year, clubs that exceed a predetermined payroll threshold are subject to a Competitive Balance Tax -- which is commonly referred to as a "luxury tax." Those who carry payrolls above that threshold are taxed on each dollar above the threshold, with the tax rate increasing based on the number of consecutive years a club has exceeded the threshold.

A team's Competitive Balance Tax figure is determined using the average annual value of each player's contract on the 40-man roster, plus any additional player benefits. Every team's final CBT figure is calculated at the end of each season. (Note: If a player signs a contract extension that doesn't kick in until a later season, his AAV for the purposes of the CBT doesn't change until the new deal begins.)

The following thresholds were put in place per the 2022-26 collective bargaining agreement:

2022: $230 million

2023: $233 million

2024: $237 million

2025: $241 million

2026: $244 million

A club that exceeds the Competitive Balance Tax threshold is subject to an increasing tax rate depending on how many consecutive years it has done so.

First year: 20 percent tax on all overages

Second consecutive year: 30 percent

Third consecutive year or more: 50 percent

If a club dips below the luxury tax threshold for a season, the penalty level is reset. So, a club that exceeds the threshold for two straight seasons but then drops below that level would be back at 20 percent the next time it exceeds the threshold.

There’s also a surcharge threshold for clubs that exceed the base threshold by $20 million or more.

$20 million to $40 million: 12 percent surcharge

$40 million to $60 million: 42.5 percent surcharge for first year; 45 percent for each consecutive year after that

$60 million or more: 60 percent surcharge

Clubs that are $40 million or more above the threshold shall have their highest selection in the next Rule 4 Draft moved back 10 places unless the pick falls in the top six. In that case, the team will have its second-highest selection moved back 10 places instead.

[32EBoozer]

4 hours ago, Scott Dierking said:

Competitive Balance Tax

Definition

Each year, clubs that exceed a predetermined payroll threshold are subject to a Competitive Balance Tax -- which is commonly referred to as a "luxury tax." Those who carry payrolls above that threshold are taxed on each dollar above the threshold, with the tax rate increasing based on the number of consecutive years a club has exceeded the threshold.

A team's Competitive Balance Tax figure is determined using the average annual value of each player's contract on the 40-man roster, plus any additional player benefits. Every team's final CBT figure is calculated at the end of each season. (Note: If a player signs a contract extension that doesn't kick in until a later season, his AAV for the purposes of the CBT doesn't change until the new deal begins.)

The following thresholds were put in place per the 2022-26 collective bargaining agreement:

2022: $230 million

2023: $233 million

2024: $237 million

2025: $241 million

2026: $244 million

A club that exceeds the Competitive Balance Tax threshold is subject to an increasing tax rate depending on how many consecutive years it has done so.

First year: 20 percent tax on all overages

Second consecutive year: 30 percent

Third consecutive year or more: 50 percent

If a club dips below the luxury tax threshold for a season, the penalty level is reset. So, a club that exceeds the threshold for two straight seasons but then drops below that level would be back at 20 percent the next time it exceeds the threshold.

There’s also a surcharge threshold for clubs that exceed the base threshold by $20 million or more.

$20 million to $40 million: 12 percent surcharge

$40 million to $60 million: 42.5 percent surcharge for first year; 45 percent for each consecutive year after that

$60 million or more: 60 percent surcharge

Clubs that are $40 million or more above the threshold shall have their highest selection in the next Rule 4 Draft moved back 10 places unless the pick falls in the top six. In that case, the team will have its second-highest selection moved back 10 places instead.

Thanks Bro.

It appears that the Mets, as of now, are under the luxury tax threshold at $218m but having a team with little to no top 2 pitchers, no bullpen and no pitching prospects ready to come up for at least 2 years.

Mets will be big spenders, again next year, and will be above the Luxury Tax threshold.

I think Alonzo gets a qualifying offer after next year and is allowed to test FA. He can put up good HR/RBI numbers but lacks situational hitting and defense. I hope he stays but you never know.

Let the young guys come up, tank the season and continue to draft & trade for pitching. We have like 7 well regarded shortstops and 4 catchers in our farm system. Get some quality arms in return.

[Scott Dierking]

24 minutes ago, 32EBoozer said:

Thanks Bro.

It appears that the Mets, as of now, are under the luxury tax threshold at $218m but having a team with little to no top 2 pitchers, no bullpen and no pitching prospects ready to come up for at least 2 years.

Mets will be big spenders, again next year, and will be above the Luxury Tax threshold.

I think Alonzo gets a qualifying offer after next year and is allowed to test FA. He can put up good HR/RBI numbers but lacks situational hitting and defense. I hope he stays but you never know.

Let the young guys come up, tank the season and continue to draft & trade for pitching. We have like 7 well regarded shortstops and 4 catchers in our farm system. Get some quality arms in return.

The Mets will certainly be above the LT again next year. 

I expect Mike Vasil to get a few starts in September, and will be given a shot in the rotation next year.

Dominic Hamel and Blake Tidwell may also have opportunities to be in the rotation for stretches next year.

The under the radar piece of the Mets farm system this year is the gains that have been established by some of the pitching prospects. 

I believe they will sign one of the top 5 FA pitches in FA next year, and either a mid level FA pitcher, or an international signing (Yamamoto).

I have no idea what they may be doing with Alonzo, or where is head is.

The mets signaled the gaol to build up the farm system last off-season when they gained 3 extra picks in the draft by giving Qualifying Offers out, and not signing free agents with those tags. 

[32EBoozer]

12 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

The Mets will certainly be above the LT again next year. 

I expect Mike Vasil to get a few starts in September, and will be given a shot in the rotation next year.

Dominic Hamel and Blake Tidwell may also have opportunities to be in the rotation for stretches next year.

The under the radar piece of the Mets farm system this year is the gains that have been established by some of the pitching prospects. 

I believe they will sign one of the top 5 FA pitches in FA next year, and either a mid level FA pitcher, or an international signing (Yamamoto).

I have no idea what they may be doing with Alonzo, or where is head is.

The mets signaled the gaol to build up the farm system last off-season when they gained 3 extra picks in the draft by giving Qualifying Offers out, and not signing free agents with those tags. 

This last draft they went heavy on pitching. Unfortunately 95% RHP. Until you have talent moving up, you’re stuck taking the best available talent and get your LHP in FA.

What the Mets most desperately need is the coaching to DEVELOP their pitchers like TB, SF, ATL and LA. 
As of today we have 8th worst record in MLB. Let’s try and get that to #4

Edited August 5, 2023 by 32EBoozer