Guess some of you need to hear this: Zach Wilson (and his $23 mil 5th yr option) has no Future in NY

[Larz]

Just now, Paradis said:

Joe in 2024: “hi Zach, do you feel like coming back for a 2 year deal for journeyman money. Can’t promise we won’t draft a QB early tho. 

Zach & his agent: 

Now do Sam and baker !

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, Paradis said:

Joe in 2024: “hi Zach, do you feel like coming back for a 2 year deal for journeyman money. Can’t promise we won’t draft a QB early tho. 

Zach & his agent: 

 

Proxy warrior Steve Young spent all of 2022 ripping on the Jets organization and people think he'd sign an extension here even if the Jets offered one.

Laughable.

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, Larz said:

Now do Sam and baker !

Sam, on his 3rd team, and Baker on his 2nd?  What about them?

[Barry McCockinner]

8 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Sure would!  But that isn't really "development", either.  Much of what they seem to be doing is neutering him so we can play "hide-the-QB" if he's forced into action. 

Zach defenders have already been whining about Hackett not calling the good plays for Zach.  In PRESEASON.

I like how you declare it's not development. Isn't making the quick easy throws something Zach has struggled with hard? I saw him doing that pretty well Saturday. I also didn't notice any turning around and doing laps in the backfield at the first hint of pressure.

call it whatever you want but he's doing some small things better than he has in the past so far. not saying he's ready for prime time but you have to crawl before you walk.

[Hal]

I haven’t followed this thread, but has anyone said they could play QB in the NFL better yet?  
 

I do love when people say that and seem to believe it.  I’d hate to miss that.  

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, Hal said:

I haven’t followed this thread, but has anyone said they could play QB in the NFL better yet?  
 

I do love when people say that and seem to believe it.  I’d hate to miss that.  

No but Tim Boyle probably could and that's bad enough.

[Paradis]

13 minutes ago, Larz said:

Now do Sam and baker !

[UntouchableCrew]

5 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

I like how you declare it's not development. Isn't making the quick easy throws something Zach has struggled with hard? I saw him doing that pretty well Saturday. I also didn't notice any turning around and doing laps in the backfield at the first hint of pressure.

call it whatever you want but he's doing some small things better than he has in the past so far. not saying he's ready for prime time but you have to crawl before you walk.

Go watch Zach's game against the Packers in the 2021 preseason. I'd argue he's worse today than he was then.

In order to make Zach look passable we run the simplest, most conservative offense imaginable against a vanilla defense and he still has baffling moments where he double clutches and then throws a swing pass high.

I'm honestly shocked anyone watched that Panthers game and thought "he's developing, he's improving" and walked away encouraged.

He's a third year pro and they're basically calling the offense around not asking him to do anything that could lead to embarrassment.

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, Reasonable Jets Fan said:

I am not for or against Zach.

Really? 

As noted, I find that pretty hard to believe based on the facts of your comments and rep history on the topic.

1 hour ago, Reasonable Jets Fan said:

.. I just hate the extreme flood of people knowing the future.

So....you hate most fans.  Got it, lol.

I can point out that I don't recall this objection when the subjective speculation was that Zach would be an elite stud. 

Your objection (and resultant neg-reps and confused emoji reps) only seems to occur when it's critical of Zach's future.

1 hour ago, Reasonable Jets Fan said:

Discussion is fine... Presenting as fact is annoying because you come across as a know it all...

Human nature of the ego of man, people tend to express obviously subjective opinion in the language of objective fact.  

I could cite a few hundred thousand posts of Zach Wilson fans here doing exactly that where you didn't seem to take issue with in this kind of way. 

Hence my subjective opinion as regards your own subjective biases being strongly pro-Zach.

1 hour ago, Reasonable Jets Fan said:

The extreme narrative brings out the discussion but it also divides everyone on this board... Maybe that's the goal... 

You think we post what we post specifically to divide people, rather than because we honestly believe it?  Critics are all just trolls then?

1 hour ago, Reasonable Jets Fan said:

Again the outcome is unlikely but there is a world where Zach becomes an NFL QB and presented other Qbs that were thrown out as done or garbage and revitalized their career but because this situation is unique (just like all theirs) the possibility is less than zero I think is the popular phrase... 

What is being said is an opinion but it's just weird the number of posters that won't even allow discussion that they could be wrong. 

Unless supported by a reputable source with links, everything we post is opinion. 

Some very strongly held, some not as much.  It's sort of a given, frankly, having to caveat every comment with "Well, In my opinion" gets tiresome in this media.  Obviously it's in our opinions, that's why we're posting it.  I think you're being very pedantic here and about expressing opinions "as fact" vs. having some f'ing mandatory preamble to every post regarding it being opinion just to please your sensibilities.

[Bowles Movement]

14 minutes ago, Paradis said:

Joe in 2024: “hi Zach, do you feel like coming back for a 2 year deal for journeyman money. Can’t promise we won’t draft a QB early tho. 

Zach & his agent: 

In the next 2 yrs there will be plenty of opportunities for Saleh and Douglas to assess Wilsons developement.   Just because you dont get to watch him in a game doesnt mean they dont get meaningful evaluations of his processing and throwing accuracy.    They ll know in another year where he is and if he is worth further investment or its time to move on.   If they draft a QB in the first 4 rds next yr Id take that as a negative sign.  
And remember , if Wilson doesnt get a chance to play here how can he establish value beyond a journeyman back up in order for another team to pay him?

[Biggs]

6 hours ago, Reasonable Jets Fan said:

Alex smith

Don't think so?   He lost the starting job in year 3 when he was under contract.  He regained it under he's first contract.  He signed a new deal and lost the job after an injury.  He actually left after it was clear SF was moving on with Kap.  

[Barry McCockinner]

5 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Go watch Zach's game against the Packers in the 2021 preseason. I'd argue he's worse today than he was then.

In order to make Zach look passable we run the simplest, most conservative offense imaginable against a vanilla defense and he still has baffling moments where he double clutches and then throws a swing pass high.

I'm honestly shocked anyone watched that Panthers game and thought "he's developing, he's improving" and walked away encouraged.

He's a third year pro and they're basically calling the offense around not asking him to do anything that could lead to embarrassment.

because last year he looked like a meth head on the field and took 20 steps backwards. He's being built back up.

[Cyberjet]

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, rtnelson said:

My point is that we likely will be pretty decent over the next 2 years.

Led by A.R., I agree.

1 hour ago, rtnelson said:

And if that's the case and AR hangs it up it's likely the easiest place to give it another shot as a starter if he has shown enough for the Jets to give him a smaller price it contract.  Nobody is likely to hire Hackett away as a HC again, and so it would be his third year in the system built by Hackett and Rodgers as tutored by Rodgers personally to him.  It's hard to say even going to SF would potentially be a better situation for him at that point.

Again, I think any opinion that portrays the Jets as "the best option for Zach" is pure homerism bias at play.  There si simply nothing in actual fact that makes that true, certainly not in him Mom or Steve Young, or his other media proxy's minds, and likely not in his mind either.  He has no ties to NY.  Guess we'll see, but I fully expect him to jump at the chance to go elsewhere to compete.

1 hour ago, rtnelson said:

If he fills in for injury a game or two over the next few years and plays well enough to win some games and doesn't look like Zach as we know him now.  The fans will slowly come around.

Some fans already think he's "not the Zach we saw" based on his play vs. Carolina's backups, lol. 

It really isn't about the fans in any meaningful way.  Only JD, presuming the AR experiment works and JD gets extended (still TBD).

1 hour ago, rtnelson said:

Also, if he isn't filling in for Rodgers he will be so far out of the public eye that he is likely to not get a better contract than what he would get from the Jets.

The market for him in such a circumstance will be mild at best, but again, I can see no reason why he would want to stay in NY if other equal opportunities exist (and at that backup QB/give a shot in camp level, they would).

1 hour ago, rtnelson said:

All of this hinges on him improving and JD, Saleh and Hackett actually wanting him.  Which it is very possible they won't.  They're just kind of stuck with him for the time being.

That's all we really know for sure, we're stuck with him for now.  And likely for next season too.  

[Jetsfan80]

8 minutes ago, Bowles Movement said:

In the next 2 yrs there will be plenty of opportunities for Saleh and Douglas to assess Wilsons developement.   Just because you dont get to watch him in a game doesnt mean they dont get meaningful evaluations of his processing and throwing accuracy. 

OK.  So say they think he's making good strides.  Are they offering him an extension?  If so....for how much and how many years?

And what if Rodgers is still the starting QB of the team in 2025?  What then?  What incentive is there for Zach to sign here rather than elsewhere to compete for a starting job?

Evaluation is cool and all but Paradis keeps bringing up the financial piece in this thread and very few are actually even trying to guess at what the Jets and Zach will do when his contract expires beyond saying silly stuff like "aNyTHiNg iS pOsSiBLe"

It's also equally laughable to think the Jets won't even consider taking a QB in the next draft or 2 while they wait for Zach to develop into the future FQB.  Not taking one this year made sense.  Not taking one in at least the middle rounds of 2024-2025 would be negligence.

[ZachStepdad]

17 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Go watch Zach's game against the Packers in the 2021 preseason. I'd argue he's worse today than he was then.

In order to make Zach look passable we run the simplest, most conservative offense imaginable against a vanilla defense and he still has baffling moments where he double clutches and then throws a swing pass high.

I'm honestly shocked anyone watched that Panthers game and thought "he's developing, he's improving" and walked away encouraged.

He's a third year pro and they're basically calling the offense around not asking him to do anything that could lead to embarrassment.

It’s preseason …… they're not doing anything special on offense or defense like all other 31 teams do. And you’re comparing preseason game planning of 2 different OCs … what Zach did in preseason vs Green Bay is irrelevant to the conversation.

He’s looked better than last year period the denial is crazy.

[Larz]

39 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Sam, on his 3rd team, and Baker on his 2nd?  What about them?

They were high draft picks that flamed out and had to take less money to stay in the league.  You ok ?   

[Biggs]

2 hours ago, Reasonable Jets Fan said:

I am not for or against Zach... I just hate the extreme flood of people knowing the future... Just the same with Becton or Williams or anyone else... Discussion is fine... Presenting as fact is annoying because you come across as a know it all... 

This is why I brought up other predictions by paradise... 

The extreme narrative brings out the discussion but it also divides everyone on this board... Maybe that's the goal... 

Again the outcome is unlikely but there is a world where Zach becomes an NFL QB and presented other Qbs that were thrown out as done or garbage and revitalized their career but because this situation is unique (just like all theirs) the possibility is less than zero I think is the popular phrase... 

What is being said is an opinion but it's just weird the number of posters that won't even allow discussion that they could be wrong. 

Who's not allowing a discussion?  He stated an opinion.  Everything on here is an opinion even when stats are posted to back them up.  He's opinion can be countered.  

You seem overly emotional about this.  

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, Larz said:

They were high draft picks that flamed out and had to take less money to stay in the league.  You ok ?   

The point of the thread is that Zach Wilson is done as a Jet, dude.  Even the post you quoted was Paradis talking about the low likelihood of Zach ending up signing an extension here.  Do you read what people are actually posting about, like ever?  lol.

If Zach Wilson succeeds as a Tennessee Titan or whatever you gonna tell me to eat crow and stuff?

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Who's not allowing a discussion?  He stated an opinion.  Everything on here is an opinion even when stats are posted to back them up.  He's opinion can be countered.  

You seem overly emotional about this.  

He's not very Reasonable

[FootballLove]

Ya I get ZW looked different in his GB ps game, but that's the ZW we don't like/want. It seems the coaching staff with Rodgers is trying to break him down and build him back up. They're not making tiny adjustments here and there, they're changing ZW from the ground up, so he'll most likely look a bit like a rookie this PS, especially early on as he tries to re-develop his game, footwork, body position/control, stepping up vs running backwards, reading defenses, etc. There's a LOT they're working on, so he probably won't look like he did 2 years ago, for better or worse.

[Larz]

6 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

The point of the thread is that Zach Wilson is done as a Jet, dude.  Even the post you quoted was Paradis talking about the low likelihood of Zach ending up signing an extension here.  Do you read what people are actually posting about, like ever?  lol.

If Zach Wilson succeeds as a Tennessee Titan or whatever you gonna tell me to eat crow and stuff?

Oh hunny. I hurt your feelings.  I’m sorry. You’re right of course. There there. 

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, Larz said:

Oh hunny. I hurt your feelings.  I’m sorry. You’re right of course. There there. 

You tell me to take the L every day and you can't take one yourself.  You suck dude.  Read a post next time, maybe.  Wasn't even my post, either.  lol.

[DoubleDown]

10 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Who's not allowing a discussion?  He stated an opinion.  Everything on here is an opinion even when stats are posted to back them up.  He's opinion can be countered.  

You seem overly emotional about this.  

Perhaps it's the belittling and condescending tone of the thread title and first post.  It's OK to talk down to people because I have it all figured out in mid August before Year 3, and don't you dare suggest a differing opinion is valid.

[FidelioJet]

54 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

In order to make Zach look passable we run the simplest, most conservative offense imaginable against a vanilla defense and he still has baffling moments where he double clutches and then throws a swing pass high.

 Three scores - including a TD.  But they were on trying to hide him?.  Silly really and seems like a reach to continue the attack.

With that said, the play calling isn't the issue, the scores, the completion aren't the issue....  

It's the timing of the offense.  He's playing within the offense, getting the ball out consistently on time - that is a quality step for him.  No one is calling for him to start.

Honestly, it's okay. I promise nothing bad will happen to you if Zach gets better.

 

 

[UntouchableCrew]

17 minutes ago, ZachStepdad said:

It’s preseason …… they're not doing anything special on offense or defense like all other 31 teams do. And you’re comparing preseason game planning of 2 different OCs … what Zach did in preseason vs Green Bay is irrelevant to the conversation.

He’s looked better than last year period the denial is crazy.

He looks like the exact same player to me -- just one who isn't running a real gameplan.

I honestly don't think there's been once piece of tangible evidence in either game that he looks substantially improved. Like, he's completed some screen passes and quick slants; he's also had some ugly overthrows and missed passes on those simple reads. He isn't actually trying to make NFL throws -- he had once pass attempt over 10 yards against Carolina and he underthrew an open TD.

The idea that he was so unbelievably bad last year that just not embarrassing himself is improvement is a strange take to me. If he started Week 1 against the Bills I see no reason he wouldn't look like 2022 Zach.

[DoubleDown]

46 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

In order to make Zach look passable we run the simplest, most conservative offense imaginable against a vanilla defense and he still has baffling moments where he double clutches and then throws a swing pass high.

You really think the Jets are calling the most conservative offense imaginable to make Zach look passable?  What would be the motivation for that?  He's the back up this year for better or worse regardless of what offense is called during the preseason.

Perhaps the Jets wanted to focus on three step drops, the short passing game, and the running game this week.  These made up the vast majority of play calls while both Zach and Boyle were in the game.  You do know teams regularly focus on specific aspects of the game during the preseason, correct?

[UntouchableCrew]

4 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Three drives, three scores - including a TD.  But they were on trying to hide him?.  Silly really and seems like a reach to continue the attack.

With that said, the play calling isn't the issue, the scores, the completion aren't the issue....  

It's the timing of the offense.  He's playing within the offense, getting the ball out consistently on time - that is a quality step for him.  No one is calling for him to start.

Honestly, it's okay. I promise nothing bad will happen to you if Zach gets better.

 

 

I would love if Zach got better. There is no upside for the New York Jets or for me as a New York Jets fan to him continuing to be bad. I'm not some negative nelly fan who complains about everything.

I'm just looking at what I'm seeing with my two eyes and I'm baffled by the sunshine pumping narrative that he looks "much improved." 

They're not opening up the offense and showcasing him. They're keeping things super tight and trying to avoid a confidence destroying disaster.

I genuinely wonder if fans who think he's managing the offense well and "getting the ball out on time" watch other teams play. We're heaping praise on a guy for doing the absolute rock bottom bare minimum in his third year -- and looking shaky doing it.

[UntouchableCrew]

1 minute ago, DoubleDown said:

You really think the Jets are calling the most conservative offense imaginable to make Zach look passable?  What would be the motivation for that?  He's the back up this year for better or worse regardless of what offense is called during the preseason.

Perhaps the Jets wanted to focus on three step drops, the short passing game, and the running game this week.  This is made up the vast majority of play calls while both Zach and Boyle were in the game.  You do know teams regularly do this during the preseason, correct?

To avoid further destroying his confidence and his value.

We'll see if they open it up against the Bucs. 

[Biggs]

9 minutes ago, DoubleDown said:

Perhaps it's the belittling and condescending tone of the thread title and first post.  It's OK to talk down to people because I have it all figured out in mid August before Year 3, and don't you dare suggest a differing opinion is valid.

I'm not into bullying but this posts deserves it.  

[DoubleDown]

5 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

To avoid further destroying his confidence and his value.

We'll see if they open it up against the Bucs. 

Fair enough, but things seemed plenty opened up to me in the HOF game, and Zach connected on a deep shot in a very small sample size.

[UntouchableCrew]

5 minutes ago, DoubleDown said:

Fair enough, but things seemed plenty opened up to me in the HOF game, and Zach connected on a deep shot in a very small sample size.

True, that was a pretty good throw. It's also one of two legit downfield passes they've attempted with him.

I guess I just need to see him running a real "NFL offense" and moving the ball with confidence, hitting outs, hitting passes in the middle of the field, etc. before we can even talk about improvement. So far he's basically thrown quick hitters, checkdowns, and screen passes with two downfield shots on the outside. It's a very limited sample size and he's looked shaky to me.

[doitny]

1 hour ago, Barry McCockinner said:

I like how you declare it's not development. Isn't making the quick easy throws something Zach has struggled with hard? I saw him doing that pretty well Saturday. I also didn't notice any turning around and doing laps in the backfield at the first hint of pressure.

call it whatever you want but he's doing some small things better than he has in the past so far. not saying he's ready for prime time but you have to crawl before you walk.

its not improvement when your comparing the regular season to preseason.

his 2021 preseason number are almost identical to this years. Zach plays well against the 2nd and 3rd teams. im betting if Miles Garrett played in the HOF game things would have been different.

[doitny]

23 minutes ago, DoubleDown said:

You really think the Jets are calling the most conservative offense imaginable to make Zach look passable?

yes, we seen this 2 times already.

rookie year he has that great Titians game throwing in 50 yards downfield. then he comes back after White and goes thru the baby steps.

last year too. 

every time Zach messes up he comes back and starts from the beginning. 

[Paradis]

51 minutes ago, DoubleDown said:

Perhaps it's the belittling and condescending tone of the thread title and first post.  It's OK to talk down to people because I have it all figured out in mid August before Year 3, and don't you dare suggest a differing opinion is valid.

Yea yea yea. But for real.

7 pages later and only two ppl have offered anything resembling sensible deliberation on how bringing in Aaron for 2-3 yrs isn’t the kiss of death for Zach’s rookie contract with NYJ.  Notice I said Zach’s rookie contract. 

The other 147 objections have been emotionally charged musings about his ability to salvage his career.