JD Isn't Getting Fired (and you probably shouldn't want him to)

[Columbia Jet Fan]

To clarify up front - he undoubtedly deserves to be fired based on performance and how he handled ZW/backup QB this year. While I think he has done some good things - there is too much stupid mixed in on top of awful results to retain his job. 

However....

1) This job is not very attractive to a new GM. 

• Rodgers is a 40 y/o QB coming off an achilles. He has a history of being difficult and wants input on personnel decisions. 
• A new GM will likely not be able to bring in a new coaching staff. Rodgers will be a pain/retire if the Jets fire Hackett - he also likes Saleh - and the defensive staff has done well
• You don't have a ton of draft capital. No 2 or 5 this year - nothing in the future
• The cap isn't ideal. It isn't awful - but JD pushed a lot of money to future years - it will limit how much a GM can do
• The division and conference are brutal
• Woody is known as a meddler and has historically relied on a system that involves the HC reporting to him and the GM reporting to him - not the GM overseeing the HC which is what most teams have. It was considered a big "give" for Woody to give this up to JD and I'm not sure he'll want to do it again. 

2) Any new GM that is willing to come into this situation is probably a third tier candidate

• Yes everyone wants a change. But lets look at our OC change last year. Everyone knew it was a sh*tty job opening w/ a potentially lame duck HC and no QB - we knew the options would be limited - and we fired him anyway. Yes we all wanted to pack MLFs bags for him - but we chose a guy who is undoubtedly worse than MLF. 
• Woody Johnson is making the decision. Anytime a decision is made by Woody Johnson that relates to football - its a bad thing for Jets fans. 

3) Woody knows Rodgers has him by the balls

• My guess is the post Rodgers ticket sales were the best since Woody bought the team - Woody knows by summer this year we'll all be re-energized and will buy back into the team w/ AR as the savior
• Rodgers can threaten to retire if he doesn't get his way
• Rodgers likes JD and JD is clearly willing to sign his buddies and give him input 
• Rodgers doesn't care about the future of the Jets (not a dig - he shouldn't) and wouldn't want a new GM who is worried about what the post AR Jets looks like - JD doesn't have this issue since his fate is tied to Rodgers

4) Hiring a new GM will only delay a potentially inevitable franchise reset/rebuild

• We're all in on Rodgers in 2024. If he can't salvage this offense or is just a shell of himself - everyone is gone and we're looking at a new coaching staff, QB, and front office for 2025. 
• If we bring in a new GM this offseason he will be the one to build everything back up in 2024. He will be the one picking a QB, hiring a new coach, and retooling the roster. He will also be a third tier candidate and will likely prolong the suck. 
• The job will be more attractive in 2025. You cut Rodgers or he retires and you take your cap hit in 2025. You stink in 2025 - draft a QB and have a bunch of young players on rookie deals you can choose to extend/trade. Fan and ownership expectations are reset but there is still young talent on the roster to sell to a potential GM. 
• The new GM/Coaching staff would presumably have a three year window - one being the hangover from the AR era and two years to show competency. 
• If we bring in someone in 2024 and the AR experiment goes wrong they'll have limited cap space in 2025 to fix things. To save their job they'll probably do what JD has done this year and McCagnan did in 2019 - overpay for free agents and push money to the future (CJ Mosley, Lev Bell, Lazard, Laken restructure, Duane Brown restructure, Uzomah restructure, etc). 

Long way of saying - we made our deal with the devil - and right now it looks like the devil is bending us over. While I'd prefer for that not to continue - I'd rather get it done with once and for all then to take a five minute breather just to get bent over again

[Warfish]

Being one of only 32 in a prestigious job (NFL GM) is always attractive.  You make far too many presumptions that the Jets are some kind of unique cancer than chases away potential GM's.  It's just not factual, but more a reflection of Jets Fans self-hate.  Same for coaches.  Pay them, give them the power appropriate to their experience, don't meddle, and you'll get the same candidates anyone else could get.

"We can't get a better one" is never an acceptable reason to stick with failure.  Yes, we can get a better one.

[Matt39]

2 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Being one of only 32 in a prestigious job (NFL GM) is always attractive.  You make far too many presumptions that the Jets are some kind of unique cancer than chases away potential GM's.  It's just not factual, but more a reflection of Jets Fans self-hate.  Same for coaches.  Pay them, give them the power appropriate to their experience, don't meddle, and you'll get the same candidates anyone else could get.

"We can't get a better one" is never an acceptable reason to stick with failure.  Yes, we can get a better one.

It is absolutely a thing that potential GMs do not want to work for the Jets. 

[Warfish]

2 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

It is absolutely a thing that potential GMs do not want to work for the Jets. 

Because you say so?  Because you believe in conspiracy theories?  Give me a break. 

Both JD and Saleh were top tier candidates when they were hired.  

Just because we all hate our own team doesn't mean potential candidates will.

This "we can't ever do any better" attitude is just sad and pathetic, a lazy excuse for simping for JD and accepting ongoing failure.

[Matt39]

Just now, Warfish said:

Because you say so?  Because you believe in conspiracy theories?  Give me a break. 

Both JD and Saleh were top tier candidates when they were hired.  

Just because we all hate our own team doesn't mean potential candidates will.

This "we can't ever do any better" attitude is just sad and pathetic, a lazy excuse for simping for JD and accepting ongoing failure.

Oh shut up. Ballard, Pace, Paton, Decosta have all turned down interviews with the Jets. Documented fact. Joe Douglas was on his way to be fired by Roseman and the Eagles. 

[carlito1171]

The leash that yall give a man that's responsible for a 24-52 record is astonishing.....

and it's more so out of fear and lack.....most Jets fans don't think we can do any better than JD so they'd rather keep someone who's mediocre 

[Jetsfan80]

3 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Because you say so?  Because you believe in conspiracy theories?  Give me a break. 

Both JD and Saleh were top tier candidates when they were hired.  

Just because we all hate our own team doesn't mean potential candidates will.

This "we can't ever do any better" attitude is just sad and pathetic, a lazy excuse for simping for JD and accepting ongoing failure.

Woody wasn’t the driving force behind the JD hire.

Everyone knows Woody is a horrible and meddling owner.  It 100 % impacts the pool of GMs available and it’s absurd to argue otherwise.

[bitonti]

6 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Because you say so?  Because you believe in conspiracy theories?  Give me a break. 

Both JD and Saleh were top tier candidates when they were hired.  

Just because we all hate our own team doesn't mean potential candidates will.

This "we can't ever do any better" attitude is just sad and pathetic, a lazy excuse for simping for JD and accepting ongoing failure.

There's a difference between there are only 32 jobs someone will want it and someone good wanting the job 

People with other options aren't going to be interested in the job until arod and his massive cap hit clears out 

That's a fair assessment of the situation 

Rodgers is making so much money he's basically a shadow gm 

[SR24]

I don’t hate Douglas but I also don’t know what the benefit of keeping Douglas would be? His drafts other than 2 rounds have been subpar, his free agent deals even worse. He’s good at trades but other than that why give him another off season?? 

[Warfish]

2 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Oh shut up. Ballard, Pace, Paton, Decosta have all turned down interviews with the Jets. Documented fact. Joe Douglas was on his way to be fired by Roseman and the Eagles. 

Why the hell would you even stay a fan of this organization if you really believed the conspiracy theory sh*t you spout?  If Woody is what you say, any half intelligent man woulda dumped this team years ago.  Guess you're just full of sh*t eh.

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, bitonti said:

There's a difference between there are only 32 jobs someone will want it and someone good wanting the job 

People with other options aren't going to be interested in the job until arod and his massive cap hit clears out 

Yep.  The only caliber of GM Woody ever hires are ones where the Jets are the only ones offering.  

[Warfish]

1 minute ago, bitonti said:

There's a difference between there are only 32 jobs someone will want it and someone good wanting the job 

People with other options aren't going to be interested in the job until arod and his massive cap hit clears out 

That's a fair assessment of the situation 

Rodgers is making so much money he's basically a shadow gm 

So we'll make you down as another JD simp who think's we should never make changes because we can never do any better than horrible.  Got it.  Same question to you as to Matt, why the **** are you still here Bit?  If it's as hopeless as you seem to think, why of gods green earth would you waste so much time here at JN or bother talking about players?  Woody = Horrible, what else do you or Matt really need to say after that?

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, Warfish said:

Why the hell would you even stay a fan of this organization if you really believed the conspiracy theory sh*t you spout?  If Woody is what you say, any half intelligent man woulda dumped this team years ago.  Guess you're just full of sh*t eh.

Ah yes, the old “well if nothing is gonna change why not quit being a fan” take.  Pretty sure you’ve ripped on others for this same garbage kind of viewpoint dude.  
 

[Matt39]

Just now, Warfish said:

Why the hell would you even stay a fan of this organization if you really believed the conspiracy theory sh*t you spout?  If Woody is what you say, any half intelligent man woulda dumped this team years ago.  Guess you're just full of sh*t eh.

Swing and a miss

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, Warfish said:

So we'll make you down as another JD simp who think's we should never make changes because we can never do any better than horrible.  Got it.  Same question to you as to Matt, why the **** are you still here Bit?  If it's as hopeless as you seem to think, why of gods green earth would you waste so much time here at JN or bother talking about players?  Woody = Horrible, what else do you or Matt really need to say after that?

F**k off jackass.  You are demonstrably wrong here and can’t handle it.  

[Warfish]

Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

Ah yes, the old “well if nothing is gonna change why not quit being a fan” take.  Pretty sure you’ve ripped on others for this same garbage kind of viewpoint dude.  
 

Because the alternative is pure insanity! 

If there is no hope for improvement in your mind, if the Owner is the unredeemable cause of our failure, and we can never do better than the sh*t we have now (thus excusing staying with that sh*t endlessly), you have to be flat out insane to waste thousands of hours (like you do) posting here.  What the hell would be the point?

[Jetsfan80]

We don’t get to choose not to be Jets fans.  But guess what we don’t get a choice about?  The sh*t silver spoon loser who owns the team.  GFY for telling long time Jets fans to find another team, f**kface.  We’re just gonna hope Woody dies or sells the team instead, thank you very much.  Cuz that’s all we’ve got.

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, Warfish said:

Because the alternative is pure insanity! 

If there is no hope for improvement in your mind, if the Owner is the unredeemable cause of our failure, and we can never do better than the sh*t we have now (thus excusing staying with that sh*t endlessly), you have to be flat out insane to waste thousands of hours (like you do) posting here.  What the hell would be the point?

I hope Woody dies or sells the team so something can maybe change.  Not being a Jets fan isn’t an option.

Also im FAR too entertained by JN not to keep coming here.

So kindly GFY if you don’t like it.  Stop telling people how to fan, as you’ve asked others NOT to do. 

[Warfish]

2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

F**k off jackass.  You are demonstrably wrong here and can’t handle it.  

"Demonstrably wrong" that no one good will ever come work for the Jets, ever, so we should just stay with JD. 

Got it.  

 

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, Warfish said:

"Demonstrably wrong" that no one good will ever come work for the Jets, ever, so we should just stay with JD. 

Got it.  

Yep, correct.  Now you’re getting it.  JD sucks and yet he is the best caliber of GM we’ll ever have under Woody Johnson.  Deal with that news however you wish.

[Warfish]

2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

We don’t get to choose not to be Jets fans.

Yes we do.  

2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 But guess what we don’t get a choice about?  The sh*t silver spoon loser who owns the team.  GFY for telling long time Jets fans to find another team, f**kface.  We’re just gonna hope Woody dies or sells the team instead, thank you very much.  Cuz that’s all we’ve got.

Grow up or get help.  ****face, lol.  

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, Warfish said:

 

Grow up or get help.  ****face, lol.  

Right back at ya.

[Warfish]

8 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I hope Woody dies

We’re just gonna hope Woody dies

Get help.  

[Jetsplayer21]

He put together perhaps the worst offense in the history of the NFL. Backing Zach through it all makes him look 1000x worse. 
 

   I know it is going to take a lot, years to build up the offense to a respectable level. But certainly JD is the VERY last guy you want to do it. As he has shown how god awful he is at it.

   A new gm could ONLY do better. You would hope the new gm could fix things to a decent level for Aaron. Decent meaning “ not average right away, but certainly not the worst in history of NFL .”  Aaron would benefit, and the qb to follow him would continue to benefit an offense on the rise. Imagine having a capable gm have a competent offense already in place for  a good qb. I’m sure rodgers would have loved that.

[derp]

I don’t think I agree with the premise that the GM job will be more appealing in 2024 than 2025 that seems to be woven throughout the OP.

Douglas has been scrambling get this team to win games so he can save his job for two offseasons. Another year of him means more desperation trades for vets, pushing cap hits to future years, etc. Giving him a lame duck year makes that worse, not better.

He’s been financially treating this team like a Super Bowl contender for two offseasons and has young talent he acquired from tearing down the roster he inherited and still can’t break .500.

[UntouchableCrew]

13 minutes ago, bitonti said:

There's a difference between there are only 32 jobs someone will want it and someone good wanting the job 

People with other options aren't going to be interested in the job until arod and his massive cap hit clears out 

That's a fair assessment of the situation 

Rodgers is making so much money he's basically a shadow gm 

Obviously the fact that there are only 32 jobs makes it desirable. There are people who will want the job.

But it's not desirable to the best candidates. If you're an aspiring GM with a bright future you hold out for your best shot to succeed.

The OP is unfortunately 100% correct. We're locked into another year of Rodgers and firing JD, Saleh, or Hackett doesn't really make any sense and won't happen.

[bitonti]

11 minutes ago, Warfish said:

So we'll make you down as another JD simp who think's we should never make changes because we can never do any better than horrible.  Got it.  Same question to you as to Matt, why the **** are you still here Bit?  If it's as hopeless as you seem to think, why of gods green earth would you waste so much time here at JN or bother talking about players?  Woody = Horrible, what else do you or Matt really need to say after that?

i need to be well informed when I make massive bets against the Jets

better than the S&P 500 these days 

seriously though You know I want JD fired it's just that what I want and what I get are very different things

Woody isn't going to pay out JD and Saleh to bring in someone who has to be ARod approved 

this is JD's bed and he's going to lie in it for at least another year 

[UntouchableCrew]

1 minute ago, derp said:

I don’t agree with the premise that the GM job will be more appealing in 2024 than 2025 that seems to be woven throughout the OP.

Douglas has been scrambling get this team to win games so he can save his job for two offseasons. Another year of him means more desperation trades for vets, pushing cap hits to future years, etc. Giving him a lame duck year makes that worse, not better.

He’s been financially treating this team like a Super Bowl contender for two offseasons and has young talent he acquired from tearing down the roster he inherited and still can’t break .500.

This is true. The question is basically "how far away from being good do you think the Jets are."

JD operated under the assumption they aren't actually that far away from being good. I think he was right to do so. It hasn't worked because they went all in on a 40 year old QB who tore his Achilles but there's an alternate universe where this team is good this year.

The odds aren't in his favor to actually turn it around and I too would be scared about trading future draft capital for Davante Adams. But I think this roster is closer to competing than it obviously looks right now.

[Jetsfan4life90]

Just now, UntouchableCrew said:

This is true. The question is basically "how far away from being good do you think the Jets are."

JD operated under the assumption they aren't actually that far away from being good. I think he was right to do so. It hasn't worked because they went all in on a 40 year old QB who tore his Achilles but there's an alternate universe where this team is good this year.

The odds aren't in his favor to actually turn it around and I too would be scared about trading future draft capital for Davante Adams. But I think this roster is closer to competing than it obviously looks right now.

Jets would be at least 6-4/7-3 with a healthy Rodgers.

[Columbia Jet Fan]

6 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Being one of only 32 in a prestigious job (NFL GM) is always attractive.  You make far too many presumptions that the Jets are some kind of unique cancer than chases away potential GM's.  It's just not factual, but more a reflection of Jets Fans self-hate.  Same for coaches.  Pay them, give them the power appropriate to their experience, don't meddle, and you'll get the same candidates anyone else could get.

"We can't get a better one" is never an acceptable reason to stick with failure.  Yes, we can get a better one.

https://www.espn.com/blog/new-york-jets/post/_/id/48246/chiefs-saints-execs-decline-jets-gm-interviews

From the above

"The New York Jets were spurned Monday by two more potential general manager candidates, bringing the total to at least four. Kansas City Chiefs director of player personnel Chris Ballard and New Orleans Saints director of player personnel Ryan Pace declined invitations to interview for the job, it was confirmed. The NFL Network first reported them."

That was in 2015. 

Further along in the article...

"A similar situation unfolded in 2013, when the Jets were blown off by several candidates. In that case, though, the job wasn't deemed attractive because the coach (Rex Ryan) came with the gig. They ended up settling for John Idzik."

So the last two times before the Jets hired JD - they had multiple prospects pass on the opportunity. 

Yes one of 32 jobs is great - but the top candidates know they can get a job and they will someday - but getting in the right situation is most important to them. They have options. Every year 4-8 jobs open up. Usually they involve an open roster with flexible cap space, the opportunity to hire a new coaching staff, implement a scheme they are familiar with, and have a top pick they can use to draft their QB. 

In that article - the six candidates were: 

Trent Kirchner - Still on the Seahawks

Rod Graves - Was a Jets guy - now out of league/retired

Bill Kuharich - Last job was in the AAF in 2019

Rick Mueller - Now a player personell exec for an XFL team

Mike MacCagnan - we know

Chris Grier - GM of the dolphins

So of the six options we had then - one of them is still in the NFL. He has also had some success! He interviewed with Woody and Woody decided to hire Mike MacCagnan instead...

The four people who declined to interview with the Jets? 

Chris Ballard - Successful GM

Ryan Pace - Got a different GM job - held it for 7 years - got fired - immediately got hired to a high position with Atlanta

Eric DeCosta - Successful GM

George Paton - Current GM

So the guys we interviewed for are basically all out of the NFL except for Grier (who we didn't hire) - and all of the guys we passed on are all GMs except one who was a GM and is now basically a #2. 

 

 

In 2013 the process looked like this: 

Dave Caldwell - passed on Jets to take Jags job - still in front office 

John Dorsey - declined the Jets - has become GM twice and is currently senior exec w/ Lions 

Tom Telesco - Didn't take the Jets interview and took a GM job for Chargers - still their GM 

Bill Polian - declined to meet with Jets

Tom Heckert - declined to meet with Jets b/c of salary cap issues 

Jerry Angelo - only candidate with GM experience - never worked in football after 2013

Tom Gamble - Interviewed with Jets and bounced around 

Omar Khan - Interviewed with Jets! Jets chose Idzik - Khan is now GM of the Steelers

Brian Gaine - Interviewed with Jets - eventually became GM of Texans - now assistant GM of Bills 

So even those GMs that did have success later in their career were passed over for either Idzik or big Mac. Almost every good choice declined to interview - and the needles in the haystack were passed over by our guy Woody. 

So yes - it can absolutely get worse. More than anything though - Woody will make the choice and Woody is incompetent. I'd rather at least have him pick from a somewhat reasonable pool of candidates than what I would imagine would be a terrible pool given all the original complications in the OP. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Spoot-Face]

31 minutes ago, Warfish said:

"We can't get a better one" is never an acceptable reason to stick with failure.  Yes, we can get a better one.

Yes, we could get a better one, if we the fans had our say. Problem is we don't, and the guy who does is a f*cking moron.

I'm not explicitly for or against cleaning house. I'm totally fine if they do. I've just reached my nihilistic phase and think, "what would it matter?"

[derp]

2 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

This is true. The question is basically "how far away from being good do you think the Jets are."

JD operated under the assumption they aren't actually that far away from being good. I think he was right to do so. It hasn't worked because they went all in on a 40 year old QB who tore his Achilles but there's an alternate universe where this team is good this year.

The odds aren't in his favor to actually turn it around and I too would be scared about trading future draft capital for Davante Adams. But I think this roster is closer to competing than it obviously looks right now.

I think it was, the question is whether that will be the case in a couple of years when guys like Sauce and Garrett Wilson have to start getting paid and there’s not a surplus of young cheap first and second round caliber players on the roster because the excess draft picks ran out. Douglas has tried moves to put the team over the top and they haven’t worked.

[Larz]

The QB room and oline have been abysmal since he got here. I still think he’s safe as long as he has Rodgers support but Rodgers has never experienced a jets collapse into laughing stock territory so who knows how he will react to the suck 

[Warfish]

10 minutes ago, bitonti said:

i need to be well informed when I make massive bets against the Jets

better than the S&P 500 these days 

Lol, if you can't win football games, may as well profit?  I gotta respect that kind of pragmatism Bit, lol.

10 minutes ago, bitonti said:

seriously though You know I want JD fired it's just that what I want and what I get are very different things

Woody isn't going to pay out JD and Saleh to bring in someone who has to be ARod approved 

this is JD's bed and he's going to lie in it for at least another year 

I do know Bit, trust me.  Same with angry "GFY ****face" 80 whose skin I seem to have gotten under this morning for not being as lacking in any hope ever as he is, lol.

The difference for me is this:

If someone truly, legitimately, thinks nothing can ever be done to be better than we are now, I cannot fathom why that anyone would keep watching.  If they believed that not only that no future hire could ever be good, but that we couldn't even make a good hire, ever!  Dear lord, being a fan isn't an actual mental illness, if someone really believed that being a fan is pointless because we'll always suck no matter what forever, they should just find another team or hobby.  I sure would if I thought that.  People change hobbies (and favorite teams) all the time.  Continuing to give Woody and the NFL money (and time) at that point, with that belief, is a sickness, not fandom.   Like sitting by a pond with a fishing pole with no bait or hook, hoping to catch a fish.  I may be a cynic, but I don't believe for a second that improvement or good hires are impossible.  if I did, damn right I'd find something better to do with my time than toll JN all day long, lol. 

 

[mfmartin]

Oh shut up. Ballard, Pace, Paton, Decosta have all turned down interviews with the Jets. Documented fact. Joe Douglas was on his way to be fired by Roseman and the Eagles. 

Joe Douglas was considered a top candidate for the next hiring cycle, but sure he was gonna get fired


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