How underrated is JFM?

[jamesr]

7 minutes ago, varjet said:

• JFM was picked up off of waivers and was developed/became an indispensable player.
• JD extended him early for a lot of money, with an out later in the contract.  That is sort of good.  It is what he should have done with Huff.
• But when you write an expensive contract to a player like that, to make the cap work you need to draft his replacement soon.   I think Clemons was supposed to be it.  Despite the fact that Clemons was drafted and JFM was not, I don’t think Clemons can replace JFM now.
• Defense is obviously important, but the Jets cannot continue to overspend money on defensive players while the offense sucks wind.   JD has to find money savings from JFM and Mosley, somehow.  
• From listening to Senior Bowl previews I think the Jets can get lucky and find a G in the 3rd round, so maybe we can launch Tomlinson.  Ozomah is toast.  
• I would not fall off of my chair if JD picks a DT in the first round.    That would actually make sense but for the other needs.  

I think at the time we signed Conklin and Uzomah, the view was that these were 1-2 year guys that we would look to draft replacement(s) for. Ruckert can definitely make Uzomah expendable, and Conklin is still a good productive player for us. 

[Beerfish]

Quinnen Williams and JFM together 37 millon cap hit. 9 combined sacks. lousy run defense.

And yes pressures mean jack compared to sacks.

Perfect example, yesterdays game.  KC player chases lamar, has him dead to rights, lets him get away and throw an 40 yard td pass.

Applause for the 'pressure'

Know how many forced fumbles JFM has in his career?   a whopping 2.

Qunton Jefferson, a low cost vet signing had more of an impact than JFM.

If JFM left tomorrow he would be forgotten in a week, he is an average player that has taken some of our worst penalties over the last few years.

 

[jamesr]

30 minutes ago, Prodigal Syndicate said:

He is very mediocre and over paid.

Our run D was atrocious and his impact plays are usually negative boneheaded ones.

Not sure how our run D can be described as "atrocious"?

We gave up 4.1 YPC, tied for 10th in the league. 21.5% of rush plays resulted in a 1st down, tied for 5th in the league.

We were 25th in total yards against - but all this says is that the opponent ran a lot of rushing plays against us (3rd most). Which is mainly because we seldom had lead so other teams could play keep-ball and field position while running down the clock.

[AFJF]

1 hour ago, JustInFudge said:

Fair enough but in defense of Jets fans here,  I wonder how much more impactful he was then Thomas or Jefferson who are fractions of the cost?  From that perspective, if we're being objective, is he playing up to what the Jets are paying him? 

 

Solomon Thomas doesn't come close to being anywhere near as good as JFM.  

Since coming to the Jets Thomas has 28 pressures to JFM's 103 and routinely gets pushed around.  He's here because he's friends with Saleh.

Jefferson is closer to being in JFM's league (72 pressures) but is more limited in where you can play him.

[AFJF]

44 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Quinnen Williams and JFM together 37 millon cap hit. 9 combined sacks. lousy run defense.

And yes pressures mean jack compared to sacks.

Perfect example, yesterdays game.  KC player chases lamar, has him dead to rights, lets him get away and throw an 40 yard td pass.

Applause for the 'pressure'

Know how many forced fumbles JFM has in his career?   a whopping 2.

Qunton Jefferson, a low coast vet signing had more of an impact than JFM.

If JFM left tomorrow he would be forgotten in a week, he is an average player that has taken some of our worst penalties over the last few years.

 

Do quarterbacks see their production get better or worse when pressured?

Putting aside of course the one pass you've used to represent the impact of pressures as a whole.

[AFJF]

37 minutes ago, jamesr said:

Not sure how our run D can be described as "atrocious"?

We gave up 4.1 YPC, tied for 10th in the league. 21.5% of rush plays resulted in a 1st down, tied for 5th in the league.

We were 25th in total yards against - but all this says is that the opponent ran a lot of rushing plays against us (3rd most). Which is mainly because we seldom had lead so other teams could play keep-ball and field position while running down the clock.

And a lot of this can be attributed to poor tackling from the secondary.  Jordan Whitehead had to have close to 20 missed tackles again this season.  That's when we see backs break huge runs.

[JustInFudge]

1 hour ago, AFJF said:

Solomon Thomas doesn't come close to being anywhere near as good as JFM.  

Since coming to the Jets Thomas has 28 pressures to JFM's 103 and routinely gets pushed around.  He's here because he's friends with Saleh.

Jefferson is closer to being in JFM's league (72 pressures) but is more limited in where you can play him.

I didnt ask you who was better, I asked you is he worth the contract vs. these guys who are a fraction of the cost.  And JFM has 400 more snaps than Thomas during that time frame but yet, in terms of actual stats, and not subjective stats, they have similar production.  Jefferson was only here 1 year and played roughly 150 less snaps...so again...is JFM worth the contract the Jets are paying him?

 

[jamesr]

Do quarterbacks see their production get better or worse when pressured?

Putting aside of course the one pass you've used to represent the impact of pressures as a whole.

Interesting stat from Sunday ... Chris Jones had a total of zero tackles.

I guess KC would have been better off without him.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

[Jimmy 2 Times]

4 hours ago, Jimmy 2 Times said:

 

[Jimmy 2 Times]

4 hours ago, AFJF said:

I don't worry so much about how often broadcaster mention a guy.  I focus more on how he plays.

Well when a defender’s name is called it means he made a tackle, sack, or pressure.  The guy was Waldo all year except for penalties.  

[AFJF]

7 minutes ago, Jimmy 2 Times said:

Well when a defender’s name is called it means he made a tackle, sack, or pressure.  The guy was Waldo all year except for penalties.  

Most broadcasters spoon feed the surface level basic stuff.  They rarely point out the guys who impact plays that don't get your average fan some points in his fantasy league.

[AFJF]

28 minutes ago, jamesr said:

Interesting stat from Sunday ... Chris Jones had a total of zero tackles.

I guess KC would have been better off without him.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
 

What a bum.  Gross overpay by KC.  They should've traded a 7 for Solomon Thomas and saved a bunch of cash.

[AFJF]

1 hour ago, JustInFudge said:

I didnt ask you who was better, I asked you is he worth the contract vs. these guys who are a fraction of the cost.  And JFM has 400 more snaps than Thomas during that time frame but yet, in terms of actual stats, and not subjective stats, they have similar production.  Jefferson was only here 1 year and played roughly 150 less snaps...so again...is JFM worth the contract the Jets are paying him?

 

Yes.  As the far superior football player, he is worth more money.

[bonkertons]

3 hours ago, GKnight83 said:

What run D?!

You're aware you can have good players at a position and still have a bad unit, right?  It's like saying "Garrett Wilson is a core piece of our offense" and then having some dingus ask "what offense?!#*".  We get it....the unit sucks...at run D at least.  JFM ain't part of the problem though.  Could have something to do with Huff's added reps away from passing downs, a massive downgrade at DT next to Quinnen, and Mosley's play starting to fall off.  That and perhaps two straight years of being grinded down and overworked because your offense can't keep them off the field.  

 

JFM ain't going anywhere though.

[Beerfish]

3 hours ago, AFJF said:

Do quarterbacks see their production get better or worse when pressured?

Putting aside of course the one pass you've used to represent the impact of pressures as a whole.

The one pass I use as an example happens 5 times a game for each team.   A Qb gets 'pressured' which is a subjective eye ball opinion stat. and he makes a play.  Yay!  I got a pressure!  McCaffery or laporta just got a 30 yard gain!

Guys that actually get there for their 15 plus sacks a year get paid the most becasue they actually get there.

A sack ends the play and the vast majority of the time ends the drive and can create legit turnovers.

JFM averages 4 sacks a year.  

[#27TheDominator]

7 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

The one pass I use as an example happens 5 times a game for each team.   A Qb gets 'pressured' which is a subjective eye ball opinion stat. and he makes a play.  Yay!  I got a pressure!  McCaffery or laporta just got a 30 yard gain!

Guys that actually get there for their 15 plus sacks a year get paid the most becasue they actually get there.

A sack ends the play and the vast majority of the time ends the drive and can create legit turnovers.

JFM averages 4 sacks a year.  

Bryce Huff is a player that has served almost no purpose other than to pressure the QB.  He has generally performed quite well with the pressure and win rate statistics.  Coming into 2023 he averaged 2.5 sacks per season.  There are people on this board who, with a straight face, believe that a team will offer us a 2nd round pick for the right to pay him $23.5M.  

[rangerous]

Jfm is a good player.  Maybe a little overcompensated at this point.  I see the consistency in his stats but keep in mind that with qwill being double teamed so often you’d expect jfm to be able to wreak some havoc.  And then there are the times when he gets called for roughing or offsides.  Those need to be added into the equation somewhere.  He’s responsible for quite a few drives being extended.

[AFJF]

51 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

The one pass I use as an example happens 5 times a game for each team.   A Qb gets 'pressured' which is a subjective eye ball opinion stat. and he makes a play.  Yay!  I got a pressure!  McCaffery or laporta just got a 30 yard gain!

Guys that actually get there for their 15 plus sacks a year get paid the most becasue they actually get there.

A sack ends the play and the vast majority of the time ends the drive and can create legit turnovers.

JFM averages 4 sacks a year.  

So statistically, you believe QB performance does not suffer when pressured vs not pressured?  This is your position?

[varjet]

The Jets have to apply to value test to the players on their roster.  They can’t just keep good players if they are overpaid.  They have been doing that to create a very good defense.  
 

But now the offense is just terrible.  

[Beerfish]

18 minutes ago, AFJF said:

So statistically, you believe QB performance does not suffer when pressured vs not pressured?  This is your position?

My position is that if a guy gets sacked his performance is much worse.

Tons of dlineman 'get pressures' as I said a totally subjective eyeball stat.

Every team is loaded with great dlienman who do not sack the QB.

 

[AFJF]

24 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

My position is that if a guy gets sacked his performance is much worse.

Tons of dlineman 'get pressures' as I said a totally subjective eyeball stat.

Every team is loaded with great dlienman who do not sack the QB.

 

Do you believe QB performance is negatively impacted by being  pressured or do you believe it makes no difference?

[slimjasi]

6 hours ago, Prodigal Syndicate said:

 

Our run D was atrocious 

You see this everywhere, but it’s a reach. 
 

FYI, the Jets defense gave up 4.1 yards per carry, which was tied for 10th best in the league with SF, Indy, LAC, and Carolina. 
 

they weren’t a great run defense, but pretty far from “atrocious” 

[Hael]

JFM is a cornerstone of our defense and defensive strategy.  Its very difficult for opposing teams to deal with JFM, Quinnen, Jermaine and Huff and then still have to contend with decent players like Clemons and Lawson.  Our line was devastating teams, pretty much the entire year, I don't really understand what people are talking about.  It doesn't get much better than that, short of having a transcendent talent like LT.

It seems like we might lose Huff.  If we lose JFM as well, a major hole in the defense will be exposed and the rotational strategy that was so critical to Saleh's philosophy goes out the window.  We need him!

Yes he was a little less good this year than the previous year (particularly along the penalty front) but he was still a nasty player.

[Barry McCockinner]

46 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

You see this everywhere, but it’s a reach. 
 

FYI, the Jets defense gave up 4.1 yards per carry, which was tied for 10th best in the league with SF, Indy, LAC, and Carolina. 
 

they weren’t a great run defense, but pretty far from “atrocious” 

Jets were ranked 3 in DVOA defense this year and hardly ever got an opportunity to play with a lead. The slander they face on here is atrocious.

[#27TheDominator]

1 hour ago, Beerfish said:

My position is that if a guy gets sacked his performance is much worse.

Tons of dlineman 'get pressures' as I said a totally subjective eyeball stat.

Every team is loaded with great dlienman who do not sack the QB.

 

Every team may be loaded with d linemen that do not sack the QB, but there are only about 31 guys in the league with more pressures last year than JFM.  When you consider that the team was carrying two DPR and the Jets had the 4th least passes attempted against them even if you hate the stat, he should get some credit.

[TuscanyTile2]

3 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

Bryce Huff is a player that has served almost no purpose other than to pressure the QB.  He has generally performed quite well with the pressure and win rate statistics.  Coming into 2023 he averaged 2.5 sacks per season.  There are people on this board who, with a straight face, believe that a team will offer us a 2nd round pick for the right to pay him $23.5M.  

I don't really know how that stuff works but I want to believe we can somehow get a 2nd rounder for him!  lol

You sound like you do know this stuff.  If we traded DJ Reed (who I believe is on the last year of his contract), do you think we could we get a 2nd rounder back for him?  Or is that also unrealistic?

[#27TheDominator]

37 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I don't really know how that stuff works but I want to believe we can somehow get a 2nd rounder for him!  lol

You sound like you do know this stuff.  If we traded DJ Reed (who I believe is on the last year of his contract), do you think we could we get a 2nd rounder back for him?  Or is that also unrealistic?

It is pretty simple.  The tag for DE is over $20m.  To tag Huff you have to pay him that for the year.  For a team to trade foe him they have to think it is worth a 2nd to pay him that much.  

I am pretty sure they could get a 2nd for DJ Reed.  If they moved him they would be lucky to get a similar talent with that 2nd and corner becomes an instant need.   Not a smart move IMO.

[TuscanyTile2]

6 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

It is pretty simple.  The tag for DE is over $20m.  To tag Huff you have to pay him that for the year.  For a team to trade foe him they have to think it is worth a 2nd to pay him that much.  

I am pretty sure they could get a 2nd for DJ Reed.  If they moved him they would be lucky to get a similar talent with that 2nd and corner becomes an instant need.   Not a smart move IMO.

If we could get a 2nd rounder for DJ Reed you don't think it would be a good idea to trade him?  What if we could get another OL?  Or a WR?  And that would be a player on a cheap contract for 4 years.  I'm sure we could get by with what we have without him.  Maybe it'll wake Ulbrich up and he'll finally let Sauce play against the opposing WR1.

[JustInFudge]

6 hours ago, AFJF said:

Yes.  As the far superior football player, he is worth more money.

Again, not what I asked.  lol  Oh well, sorry I bothered you by asking questions about the topic you started! 

[LAD_Brooklyn]

11 hours ago, Adoni Beast said:

His versatility is unbelievably important to our rotation, but would like to see more production and impact plays for his price tag. I don't think a restructure is out of the question.

Clemons is awful and literally makes no positive impact at all. Anyone suggestion that Clemons can replace JFM is completely off the mark.

JN, hold me back!

https://tenor.com/4skY.gif