C. Robinson; potential big piece of the off-season puzzle

[#27TheDominator]

1 hour ago, CanadaSteve said:

Not completely a fair assessment dude.  Becton was relatively injury-free in college.  So was AVT.  Clark suffered a freak injury that ended his career before it started.  Mitchell with blood clots.  Warren an injury in training camp.  You can't blame a GM for injuries.  Now, this team seems to have an injury history once they get to the Jets.  That is not a coincidence.  So, blame the GM for hiring a bad OL coach, bad trainers, bad medical staff, not pushing for better turf....whatever the case is.  But he has continually drafted players and signed players who have all got injured.  Some never before coming here.  If JD is to blame for anything, I would be talking about his choices in the above-mentioned.

Some truth to this, but also there were some issues that were ignored.  Warren had injury issues at Pitt and that, supposedly, is why he fell.  Becton's body type was mentioned by many as something that would be a problem for conditioning and injury risk.  Likewise, Mitchell was considered a guy who did not have a body coming out of college that would necessarily hold up at the NFL level. 

Mitchell's clots and Clarke were fluke-y but I think the two main issues are projecting this sh*t is an art that our GM is not adept at and O line injuries seem to be out of hand around the league in general. 

[Maynard13]

On 2/6/2024 at 12:34 PM, T0mShane said:

He sucks

Then he fits right in.

[Larz]

Fragile expensive old guy 

sounds perfect 

[varjet]

2 hours ago, CanadaSteve said:

Not completely a fair assessment dude.  Becton was relatively injury-free in college.  So was AVT.  Clark suffered a freak injury that ended his career before it started.  Mitchell with blood clots.  Warren an injury in training camp.  You can't blame a GM for injuries.  Now, this team seems to have an injury history once they get to the Jets.  That is not a coincidence.  So, blame the GM for hiring a bad OL coach, bad trainers, bad medical staff, not pushing for better turf....whatever the case is.  But he has continually drafted players and signed players who have all got injured.  Some never before coming here.  If JD is to blame for anything, I would be talking about his choices in the above-mentioned.

I think the medical, trainers, etc were all factors.

I think better scouting/analysis should have concluded that Becton was a reach at 11, and Wirfs was the better value pick.  You can tell by just looking at them and speaking with them.  The results bear this out.  

[rangerous]

On 2/6/2024 at 6:29 PM, Adoni Beast said:

I am actually starting to warm up to the idea of signing both Jonah Williams and David Bakhtiari.

• Bakhtiari will come cheap after he is a cut and I can see a 1-year 4-5 million dollar deal for him with incentives
• Williams has experience at both LT and RT, although he excelled at RT this year and had up and downs at LT his first few seasons
• This will give us flexibility and allow us to draft best OT or WR available and keep AVT at Guard
• If Bakhtiari goes down, Jonah Williams can start at LT, if we end up drafting a RT like Fuaga 
• If Bakhtiari holds up and plays well then you keep him at LT, Williams at RT, move AVT to LG, put Fuaga at RG for this season

I think our OL free agency plan will end up looking some combination of signing Bakhtiari (After he's cut of course) to a 1-year cheap deal and someone else who can start at either LT or RT.

i think doing this gives them some draft flexibility.  if these vet tackles hold up then it's not so imperative that they pick a tackle in the first round.  they could go for a wr or te.

[Paradis]

6 hours ago, CanadaSteve said:

Not completely a fair assessment dude.  Becton was relatively injury-free in college. 

He drafted a 6’7 350 dude at tackle not from Ohio/florida/texas etc. he had options.  

[#27TheDominator]

4 hours ago, rangerous said:

i think doing this gives them some draft flexibility.  if these vet tackles hold up then it's not so imperative that they pick a tackle in the first round.  they could go for a wr or te.

Are we going to know that these vet tackles will hold up before the draft? 

[rangerous]

50 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Are we going to know that these vet tackles will hold up before the draft? 

obviously not.  even if their injury history is pristine.  but who's to say a drafted player is going to hold up.  cam clark didn't make it past training camp.  eunuwa was out after two seasons.  i think the thing that works in favor to the vet is they know their bodies a lot better and know how to prepare for games.

[#27TheDominator]

1 minute ago, rangerous said:

obviously not.  even if their injury history is pristine.  but who's to say a drafted player is going to hold up.  cam clark didn't make it past training camp.  eunuwa was out after two seasons.  i think the thing that works in favor to the vet is they know their bodies a lot better and know how to prepare for games.

Like Aaron Rodgers!

What I was actually responding to was your statement that 

Quote

if these vet tackles hold up then it's not so imperative that they pick a tackle in the first round. 

How does signing two super injury prone dudes mean that it is not so imperative that they pick a tackle in the first?  They won't know jack sh*t about them until well into the season.  Cam Clarke's fluke injury happened in his 2nd camp.  Enunwa was an injury prone dude in college that got injured plenty in the NFL.  He actually lasted in the NFL from 2014 to 2019.  He probably has a pension. 

If Bakhtiari knows his body, he probably knows it's broken down.  He certainly doesn't know how to prepare for games.  He hardly plays in any.  In the past 3 seasons he has played in 13 games.  He has missed 37 or so.  Robinson is a comparative iron man, but he is coming off a knee injury with a big contract that makes him a potential cap casualty.

[AFJF]

On 2/6/2024 at 5:34 PM, T0mShane said:

He sucks

But he makes up for it by never getting on the field so he can't hurt the team.

It's called making a sacrifice, Tom.
 

[AFJF]

7 hours ago, CanadaSteve said:

Not completely a fair assessment dude.  Becton was relatively injury-free in college.  So was AVT.  Clark suffered a freak injury that ended his career before it started.  Mitchell with blood clots.  Warren an injury in training camp.  You can't blame a GM for injuries.  Now, this team seems to have an injury history once they get to the Jets.  That is not a coincidence.  So, blame the GM for hiring a bad OL coach, bad trainers, bad medical staff, not pushing for better turf....whatever the case is.  But he has continually drafted players and signed players who have all got injured.  Some never before coming here.  If JD is to blame for anything, I would be talking about his choices in the above-mentioned.

90% of fans were in love with Becton after watching him toss defenders all over the field as a rookie.

GVR falls on his leg and costs him two years and all of a sudden he was never any good, was always going to suck and shouldn't have been drafted.

The revisionist history is beyond silly at this point.

[SickJetFan]

Dont worry JD knows how to pickem whether FA or draft

[Beerfish]

1 hour ago, AFJF said:

90% of fans were in love with Becton after watching him toss defenders all over the field as a rookie.

GVR falls on his leg and costs him two years and all of a sudden he was never any good, was always going to suck and shouldn't have been drafted.

The revisionist history is beyond silly at this point.

In the end it does not matter one bit why your GM fails on players.   You can make excuses for every gm in this league.

If a GM misses on enough picks for any reason at all he has failed.

Douglas's top to picks early on, LT at 11 and QB at 2.....both epic fails.

[doitny]

7 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

In the end it does not matter one bit why your GM fails on players.   You can make excuses for every gm in this league.

If a GM misses on enough picks for any reason at all he has failed.

Douglas's top to picks early on, LT at 11 and QB at 2.....both epic fails.

yeah but the rest of his top picks are pretty dam good.

its too early for the 2023 draft but out of six 1st rd picks he hit on 4. thats pretty good.

[Beerfish]

3 minutes ago, doitny said:

yeah but the rest of his top picks are pretty dam good.

its too early for the 2023 draft but out of six 1st rd picks he hit on 4. thats pretty good.

He has hit on some top picks he has missed on some top picks, his after early picks he has been pretty well terrible.

[AFJF]

2 hours ago, Beerfish said:

In the end it does not matter one bit why your GM fails on players.   You can make excuses for every gm in this league.

If a GM misses on enough picks for any reason at all he has failed.

Douglas's top to picks early on, LT at 11 and QB at 2.....both epic fails.

I think it's silly to blame any GM for things beyond his control.

Let him keep doing what he's doing and eventually these guys are going to stay on the field.

AVT missing more time than he's played over the past two seasons isn't an excuse.  It's a reason.

If Joe D takes your favorite player with pick 10 this year and the guys wins rookie of the year and then gets hit by a bus, are we blaming Douglas?

And feel free to name the GM who hits on 100% of his first round picks.

[CanadaSteve]

2 hours ago, Beerfish said:

In the end it does not matter one bit why your GM fails on players.   You can make excuses for every gm in this league.

If a GM misses on enough picks for any reason at all he has failed.

Douglas's top to picks early on, LT at 11 and QB at 2.....both epic fails.

Yup.....what is his percentage overall?  And I wouldn't say Becton is an epic fail.  Zach, yes.  

[CanadaSteve]

5 hours ago, Paradis said:

He drafted a 6’7 350 dude at tackle not from Ohio/florida/texas etc. he had options.  

Yeah, he did.  And half this board LOVED the pick.  As did many pundits.

sh*t on all the picks and you are bound to be right 50 percent of the time. 

[CanadaSteve]

10 hours ago, varjet said:

I think the medical, trainers, etc were all factors.

I think better scouting/analysis should have concluded that Becton was a reach at 11, and Wirfs was the better value pick.  You can tell by just looking at them and speaking with them.  The results bear this out.  

I get that.  But we needed a LT.  Very few people were talking about Wirfs moving to LT.  Personally, I think that is why he went with Becton.  I mean, Jedrick Wills certainly hasn't lived up to the hype.  Andrew Thomas, I don't think as the 4th overall pick, really been worth it.  Wirfs has been great.  I wonder how much of that early success was thanks to a certain QB who got the ball out faster than anyone.  You don't have to protect long when TB was throwing!

[Beerfish]

15 minutes ago, AFJF said:

I think it's silly to blame any GM for things beyond his control.

Let him keep doing what he's doing and eventually these guys are going to stay on the field.

AVT missing more time than he's played over the past two seasons isn't an excuse.  It's a reason.

If Joe D takes your favorite player with pick 10 this year and the guys wins rookie of the year and then gets hit by a bus, are we blaming Douglas?

And feel free to name the GM who hits on 100% of his first round picks.

Why did John Idzik get fired after only two years despite, getting cap space, trading Revis, getting comp picks and having a good draft strategy?

[AFJF]

16 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Why did John Idzik get fired after only two years despite, getting cap space, trading Revis, getting comp picks and having a good draft strategy?

Ummm...because none of the guys he drafted were good at football?

[joewilly12]

Becton was a 1st round he didn’t help us win a game here … Have to grab playmakers especially on offense. 

[Dunnie]

Becton was a 1st round he didn’t help us win a game here … Have to grab playmakers especially on offense. 

Playmakers are useless without an offensive line ... As the Jets have illustrated quite clearly.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

[CanadaSteve]

20 hours ago, Beerfish said:

Why did John Idzik get fired after only two years despite, getting cap space, trading Revis, getting comp picks and having a good draft strategy?

Almost every one of his picks sucked, including going 0/12 in 2014.  0/12.  Let that sink in.

 

[CanadaSteve]

19 hours ago, joewilly12 said:

Becton was a 1st round he didn’t help us win a game here … Have to grab playmakers especially on offense. 

Playmakers can't make plays without an Oline.  

[Beerfish]

14 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

Almost every one of his picks sucked, including going 0/12 in 2014.  0/12.  Let that sink in.

 

So it is idziks fault his picks suck but not douglas fault his picks suck?   Hmmmph who knew!

[CanadaSteve]

16 hours ago, Beerfish said:

So it is idziks fault his picks suck but not douglas fault his picks suck?   Hmmmph who knew!

Nobody has ever said it isn't JD's fault his picks didn't suck.  I don't think there has been one person on this website who has shown support for JD who would say he is not at fault for a pick that doesn't work.  

But what has happened is calling out those who constantly point out the picks that haven't worked out vs. the picks that have.  The best GM's in the league hit on approximately 55-60 percent of their picks.  I did a post about this about 2 years ago.  Went through the top 5 drafting teams in league history, and utilized picks from the start of a GM's tenure to the year before I did the post.  All of them were in that range.  And for a pick to be successful, I split it between players still on the team that drafted them, and players still in league but on other teams.  For a GM to get into the 'elite' status of drafting, it has to be the later.  

For the record, JD is in the 'elite' status as of right now without the 2023 draft.  The biggest knocks on JD so far?  He has drafted a lot of players who have spent a lot of time on IR, and he drafted one of the worst starting QB's ever to wear the uniform.  

  

[Jet2020]

Injury prone. Will fit right in.