Gap vs. zone: Unpacking the NY Jets OL’s stark identity shift

[32EBoozer]

https://jetsxfactor.com/2024/03/14/ny-jets-gap-zone-ol-identity-shift/

Another great article from Nania.

one of several tidbits….

 

A perfect formula for Breece Hall?

I believe that a gap scheme could get the most out of Breece Hall. It is a great method for maximizing his home-run speed, as he would receive more opportunities to explode downfield without having to make multiple reads or elongate plays.

One of the trademarks of a gap scheme is that it allows the running back to quickly reach the line of scrimmage. In 2023, the top four teams in the fastest average time it took their RBs to reach the line of scrimmage were the Patriots (2.62s), Bills (2.63s), Bengals (2.63s), and Cowboys (2.63s). All four teams ranked top-11 in gap frequency.

The Jets, meanwhile, ranked 28th with an average of 2.90 seconds to reach the line of scrimmage. Hall in particular averaged 2.96 seconds, the fifth-longest time among running backs with at least 150 carries.

This stat does not necessarily correlate with success – it’s more of a stylistic indicator. There are successful and unsuccessful running backs on both ends of the spectrum. For instance, James Conner had the same mark as Hall and he finished with over 1,000 rushing yards on 5.0 yards per carry. A.J. Dillon had the third-fastest time (2.60 seconds) and he endured a brutal season, averaging 3.4 yards per carry.

 

With that being said, I do think a player like Hall would benefit from having more chances to hammer the line of scrimmage in a hurry. It all comes down to what works best for the player and the team.

The Bills provide a good example. Buffalo was the NFL’s heaviest gap team with a 0.53-to-1 zone-to-gap ratio, and it was a successful formula for their top running back, James Cook. He averaged 2.64 seconds to reach the line of scrimmage, ranking ninth-fastest out of the 35 running backs with at least 150 carries. The quick-hitting style helped Cook rank sixth-best in yards per carry at 4.7.

It worked for Cook because it emphasized his excellent breakaway speed. Cook ran a 4.42 in the forty (88th percentile among RB). Buffalo’s gap scheme allowed Cook to hit gaps at full speed and take off to the second level.

 

[Beerfish]

https://www.milehighreport.com/22451001/difference-between-zone-and-gap-scheme

Nice article of Gap vs Zone schemes above.

I have never liked zone schemes.

Seems like Zone requires a different type of lineman and in Fa or the draft you avoid some good big people movers due to scheme.  The number of times I see a good lineman in the draft and someone tells me, oh he is good but does not fit our scheme kills me.

Zone is wonderful if all your lineman play the whole season together and know exactly what they are supposed to do and how to play off each other.  It makes it way tougher with perceptually injured teams like the jets.

There seem to be way more chances for big screw up plays where no one takes a rusher and two lineman are standing there looking at each other as the QB or RB gets killed.

Just use simple blocking schemes no fancy sh*t, stop the guy standing in front of you getting a free run and make him at least run over top of you or around you.  Have road graders to pull and open holes.

[Ecuadorian Jet]

do we even have the right OL coach to really put the players in the best position to excel?

[Barry McCockinner]

9 minutes ago, Ecuadorian Jet said:

do we even have the right OL coach to really put the players in the best position to excel?

We have an o-line coach?

 

[jetstream23]

11 minutes ago, Ecuadorian Jet said:

do we even have the right OL coach...

No.  Let me stop you right there.

😛

 

[jetstream23]

16 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

https://www.milehighreport.com/22451001/difference-between-zone-and-gap-scheme

Nice article of Gap vs Zone schemes above.

I have never liked zone schemes.

Seems like Zone requires a different type of lineman and in Fa or the draft you avoid some good big people movers due to scheme.  The number of times I see a good lineman in the draft and someone tells me, oh he is good but does not fit our scheme kills me.

Zone is wonderful if all your lineman player the whole season together and know exactly what they are supposed to do and how to play off each other.  It makes it way tougher with perceptually injured teams like the jets.

There seem to be way more chances for big screw up plays where no one takes a rusher and two lineman are standing there looking at each other as the QB or RB gets killed.

Just use simple blocking schemes no fancy sh*t, stop the guy standing in front of you getting a free run and make him at least run over top of you or around you.  Have road graders to pull and open holes.

I agree with this.  The one thing zone schemes really help with are targeting specific linebackers or a safety at the second level with one of your best OLineman.  Rather than just lining up and pushing the guy in front of you, my understanding is that the zone gives a bit more flexibility, and pulling guys like an AVT, can help you neutralize a LB heading to the hole.  Interested if anyone has thoughts about that?

The other thing I'm curious about are the injury rates.  I think I heard that zone blocking schemes, lots of pulling guards, and OTs heading downfield tends to lead to more OL injuries over time.

[bitonti]

This is all well and good but the Jets line is still a grab bag of player type 

Would anyone describe olu Fashanu as a gap player? Or Tyron? 

Tippy and AVT were drafted for the zone but can play both.

Simpson and Moses came from gap heavy Baltimore but are on extremely short money. 

Carter Warren is gap, max Mitchell is zone. I guess they will be signaling more gap if they cut Mitchell but both guys are going to see time while Moses heals 

[32EBoozer]

15 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

The other thing I'm curious about are the injury rates.  I think I heard that zone blocking schemes, lots of pulling guards, and OTs heading downfield tends to lead to more OL injuries over time.

Good point…. 330 lb. Men, a few on the wrong side of 30, running Toward either sideline15x/game with our turf, makes me nervous. Better to line them up and blow the other guy up.

[doitny]

20 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

I think I heard that zone blocking schemes, lots of pulling guards, and OTs heading downfield tends to lead to more OL injuries over time.

you heard? isnt that what we have been witnessing these pass few years? no wonder our OL get hurt so much

[SickJetFan]

50 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

https://www.milehighreport.com/22451001/difference-between-zone-and-gap-scheme

Nice article of Gap vs Zone schemes above.

I have never liked zone schemes.

Seems like Zone requires a different type of lineman and in Fa or the draft you avoid some good big people movers due to scheme.  The number of times I see a good lineman in the draft and someone tells me, oh he is good but does not fit our scheme kills me.

Zone is wonderful if all your lineman player the whole season together and know exactly what they are supposed to do and how to play off each other.  It makes it way tougher with perceptually injured teams like the jets.

There seem to be way more chances for big screw up plays where no one takes a rusher and two lineman are standing there looking at each other as the QB or RB gets killed.

Just use simple blocking schemes no fancy sh*t, stop the guy standing in front of you getting a free run and make him at least run over top of you or around you.  Have road graders to pull and open holes.

I have been saying this for 3 ******* years

[Joe W. Namath]

There is no basis this blocking scheme change is happening other then someone who has no clue giving his thoughts.

Bringing Morgan Moses in here means nothing,  Morgan Moses blocked in the wide scheme here previously.

It is crazy how these content guys have to create new things all the time and come up with nonsense like this.

[32EBoozer]

7 hours ago, Joe W. Namath said:

It is crazy how these content guys have to create new things all the time and come up with nonsense like this.

More interesting than some JN posters posting the same Rah-Rah crap over and over about JD’s excellence 

[jetstream23]

17 hours ago, doitny said:

you heard? isnt that what we have been witnessing these pass few years? no wonder our OL get hurt so much

Sure, but I think I actually heard someone on a Podcast talking about actual data.  As in injury rates increasing for teams with zone blocking vs power/man, gap systems.  I wish I could recall what Podcast that was.  I'd be interested in seeing the actual data and injury rates.

 

[Jetkwondo]

Bart Scott says they now have 2 pairs of RB's

: Breece & Izzy are speed, one cut, ZONE scheme runners

: Allen and Davis are Downhill, power, GAP scheme runners

He said you now have a replacement in each case if someone goes down,  depending on which scheme you use... And that Smith, Simpson and Moses are guys who love the power GAP systems. 

 

[rangerous]

The thing is all teams use zone and gap blocking.  It depends on the play being called.  So I don’t think there’s a whole lot of difference in the players.  They just have to remember what their assignments are.  This isn’t to say hall wouldn’t be better with one style over the other.  As I recall, when they hired saleh and he brought milfy in ,it was all about the offense being easy to learn and execute.  I guess not unless you want to blame the teachers.

[#27TheDominator]

19 hours ago, Beerfish said:

https://www.milehighreport.com/22451001/difference-between-zone-and-gap-scheme

Nice article of Gap vs Zone schemes above.

I have never liked zone schemes.

Seems like Zone requires a different type of lineman and in Fa or the draft you avoid some good big people movers due to scheme.  The number of times I see a good lineman in the draft and someone tells me, oh he is good but does not fit our scheme kills me.

Zone is wonderful if all your lineman play the whole season together and know exactly what they are supposed to do and how to play off each other.  It makes it way tougher with perceptually injured teams like the jets.

There seem to be way more chances for big screw up plays where no one takes a rusher and two lineman are standing there looking at each other as the QB or RB gets killed.

Just use simple blocking schemes no fancy sh*t, stop the guy standing in front of you getting a free run and make him at least run over top of you or around you.  Have road graders to pull and open holes.

I get what you are saying, but this is a vast oversimplification.  All teams use both schemes.  You want to run pure man?  Literally nobody does and the above article says that the heaviest gap team was the Bills and they still were .53 to 1.  Not exactly not running any zone and the characteristics that make a guy work for zone blocking schemes will still be pretty important.

I think the main thing when looking for gap guys vs. zone guys is like when everyone went to the 3-4.  When it was only a few teams, you could get bargains (huge guys for NT, tweener DE/DT were perfect for 3-4 DE).  As the bulk of teams went to 3-4 all of a sudden there were no bargains.  When there was less zone scheming going on, you could get smaller, faster, smarter OL and they would help, but as those concepts were used everywhere the bargains dried up.  The cream always rises - LT was going to be great as 3-4 OLB or 4-3 DE, but the bargains disappear.

[nycdan]

The answer is simple.  You want power AND speed.  You've got the fever and the only cure is....more Larry Allen

 

[32EBoozer]

13 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I get what you are saying, but this is a vast oversimplification.  All teams use both schemes.  You want to run pure man?  Literally nobody does and the above article says that the heaviest gap team was the Bills and they still were .53 to 1.  Not exactly not running any zone and the characteristics that make a guy work for zone blocking schemes will still be pretty important.

I think the main thing when looking for gap guys vs. zone guys is like when everyone went to the 3-4.  When it was only a few teams, you could get bargains (huge guys for NT, tweener DE/DT were perfect for 3-4 DE).  As the bulk of teams went to 3-4 all of a sudden there were no bargains.  When there was less zone scheming going on, you could get smaller, faster, smarter OL and they would help, but as those concepts were used everywhere the bargains dried up.  The cream always rises - LT was going to be great as 3-4 OLB or 4-3 DE, but the bargains disappear.

The point I was trying to get to in the OP was the gaps scheme might be more beneficial to breeze and perhaps Allan moving forward. Your article stated how in the zone blocking scheme running back was hitting the holes slower than in the gap scheme. Now breeze will be amazing in whatever scheme we run, but I think with the age of our two tackles and the crappy turf at MetLife, the power game might be the way to go. 

[32EBoozer]

1 minute ago, nycdan said:

The answer is simple.  You want power AND speed.  You've got the fever and the only cure is....more Larry Allen

 

That’s impressive!

[Beerfish]

2 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

I get what you are saying, but this is a vast oversimplification.  All teams use both schemes.  You want to run pure man?  Literally nobody does and the above article says that the heaviest gap team was the Bills and they still were .53 to 1.  Not exactly not running any zone and the characteristics that make a guy work for zone blocking schemes will still be pretty important.

I think the main thing when looking for gap guys vs. zone guys is like when everyone went to the 3-4.  When it was only a few teams, you could get bargains (huge guys for NT, tweener DE/DT were perfect for 3-4 DE).  As the bulk of teams went to 3-4 all of a sudden there were no bargains.  When there was less zone scheming going on, you could get smaller, faster, smarter OL and they would help, but as those concepts were used everywhere the bargains dried up.  The cream always rises - LT was going to be great as 3-4 OLB or 4-3 DE, but the bargains disappear.

Yeah oline play should be over simplification.   The NFL and coaches have to over complicate things and schemes so much that when one player miss his assignment some guy comes free an kills your QB.   The number of times I see guys not get beat physically or by a better player but a play going south because of a missed scheme.  A great image from last year was two jets olienman standing looking at each other as zach wilson was getting destroyed.

[JohnnyLV]

21 hours ago, Beerfish said:

https://www.milehighreport.com/22451001/difference-between-zone-and-gap-scheme

Nice article of Gap vs Zone schemes above.

I have never liked zone schemes.

Seems like Zone requires a different type of lineman and in Fa or the draft you avoid some good big people movers due to scheme.  The number of times I see a good lineman in the draft and someone tells me, oh he is good but does not fit our scheme kills me.

Zone is wonderful if all your lineman play the whole season together and know exactly what they are supposed to do and how to play off each other.  It makes it way tougher with perceptually injured teams like the jets.

There seem to be way more chances for big screw up plays where no one takes a rusher and two lineman are standing there looking at each other as the QB or RB gets killed.

Just use simple blocking schemes no fancy sh*t, stop the guy standing in front of you getting a free run and make him at least run over top of you or around you.  Have road graders to pull and open holes.

Zone blocking is the scourge of the NFL.

[SickJetFan]

1 hour ago, Beerfish said:

Yeah oline play should be over simplification.   The NFL and coaches have to over complicate things and schemes so much that when one player miss his assignment some guy comes free an kills your QB.   The number of times I see guys not get beat physically or by a better player but a play going south because of a missed scheme.  A great image from last year was two jets oleineman stain looking at each other as zach wilson was getting destroyed.

also requires coaching both in teaching and in play calling - the Jets were ill equipped to do either

[Supersonic]

Maybe we should first see what it's like having O-lineman who can actually block.