Popular Post Claymation Posted August 21 Popular Post Share Posted August 21 The Jets have plenty of weapons; a top 3 RB in Hall that is a dual threat in the running and passing game, a top 10 WR in Garrett Willson, a damn good #2 WR who can win 50/50 balls, and an average TE. On top of that, the Jets have someone who can deliver them the ball. Why should anyone care about what the Jets acquired 4-5 years ago unless it has an impact on this current roster. Joe Douglas isn't infallible, he has made mistakes but this is a damn good roster. If the members of this forum can't see that, then I can't help you plus your opinion means even less now. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bicketybam Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 Remember when we signed Art Monk? Discuss! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claymation Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 6 hours ago, Claymation said: If you believe that was the case, the Giants under Parcells was the run game and stay out of the way of BB. Probably more truth to that than you'd care to admit. Maybe stay out of LTs way. At least fat Bill found little Bill. Buddy Ryan already won a ring with the Jets and ran the Purple People Eaters before he got to Chicago. Credit Ditka for not dumping him when he took over 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 2 hours ago, Bowles Movement said: Really? You’re getting 50/50 odds from your bookie? How does he make money, or does he just do it for charity? I just wondered if he d put his money where his mouth is. Yeah fair enough but my experience betting on here is I almost always have to turn into Dog the Bounty Hunter for 3 months to get paid. Well worth the 10% vig to be guaranteed instant payoff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warfish Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 14 hours ago, Bowles Movement said: Do you want to place a wager on the win number? 9 and under you win. 10 or more I win? I don't. I'm not a gambler nor a fan of most gambling. Again, 9-7 is a prediction based primarily on widespread injury risk to key components. If injuries do not occur, they'll win more. While I do not hold JD in the regard many here do, I have said many times this is a very good roster on paper with a lot of potential if everything goes right. I don't think there is anything in the above statement that would imply I am sure of anything, nor sure enough that I would want to wager on the outcome. I freely admit I don't know what the outcome will be because I don't know if Rodgers, Smith, Williams, etc. will or will not stay healthy or not. Obviously, I want them to stay healthy. I want to win above all else, even if by winning I look for the fool for doubting beforehand. And I will never, ever, bet against the Jets. No matter how bad I may think they might be, or how sure I think a game might be a loss, I will just not do it. For me, personally, that breaks my "fan code" if you will. For others, shrug, to each their own. I won't bet on them winning either, lol, but I won't bet against them. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimjasi Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 38 minutes ago, Warfish said: I don't. I'm not a gambler nor a fan of most gambling. Again, 9-7 is a prediction based primarily on widespread injury risk to key components. If injuries do not occur, they'll win more. While I do not hold JD in the regard many here do, I have said many times this is a very good roster on paper with a lot of potential if everything goes right. I don't think there is anything in the above statement that would imply I am sure of anything, nor sure enough that I would want to wager on the outcome. I freely admit I don't know what the outcome will be because I don't know if Rodgers, Smith, Williams, etc. will or will not stay healthy or not. Obviously, I want them to stay healthy. I want to win above all else, even if by winning I look for the fool for doubting beforehand. And I will never, ever, bet against the Jets. No matter how bad I may think they might be, or how sure I think a game might be a loss, I will just not do it. For me, personally, that breaks my "fan code" if you will. For others, shrug, to each their own. I won't bet on them winning either, lol, but I won't bet against them. I bet on the NFL as a hobby for about a decade. The number 1 rule I always tell people regarding sports betting is to NEVER bet on their favorite teams - on or against, it doesn't matter. Fans are emotional and biased and those attributes detract from your ability to accurately predict the outcomes of games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowles Movement Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 2 hours ago, jgb said: Yeah fair enough but my experience betting on here is I almost always have to turn into Dog the Bounty Hunter for 3 months to get paid. Well worth the 10% vig to be guaranteed instant payoff. When I ve bet it was with stipulation that winnings go to the winners selected charity. But I get how getting someone to pay off would be aggravating to say the least. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 27 minutes ago, Bowles Movement said: When I ve bet it was with stipulation that winnings go to the winners selected charity. But I get how getting someone to pay off would be aggravating to say the least. Yeah charity the way to go with bets on here agree. Then the loser who doesn’t pay isn’t screwing over some semi-anonymous Internet stranger (which is bad enough) but kids with cancer or something. You gotta be some kinda SOB to do that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Troll Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 How do you leave $7 million for Dalvin Cook off your list? 80% of the Jets fan base knew he was completely washed and the ******* GM didn't. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warfish Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 4 hours ago, Claymation said: The Jets have plenty of weapons; a top 3 RB in Hall that is a dual threat in the running and passing game, a top 10 WR in Garrett Willson, a damn good #2 WR who can win 50/50 balls, and an average TE. On top of that, the Jets have someone who can deliver them the ball. Why should anyone care about what the Jets acquired 4-5 years ago unless it has an impact on this current roster. Joe Douglas isn't infallible, he has made mistakes but this is a damn good roster. If the members of this forum can't see that, then I can't help you plus your opinion means even less now. Would you extend him today? After all, it's a "damn good roster" right, so he's done his job. And "why should anyone care about years ago", only the damn good roster now matters. So, how many years are you extending him today Clay? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimjasi Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 3 hours ago, Claymation said: Has a solid shot if he plays all 17 games. i would say he has an especially good shot at the receptions record, since I think he will be targeted as much as any WR in the league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nycdan Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 4 hours ago, Claymation said: The Jets have plenty of weapons; a top 3 RB in Hall that is a dual threat in the running and passing game, a top 10 WR in Garrett Willson, a damn good #2 WR who can win 50/50 balls, and an average TE. On top of that, the Jets have someone who can deliver them the ball. Why should anyone care about what the Jets acquired 4-5 years ago unless it has an impact on this current roster. Joe Douglas isn't infallible, he has made mistakes but this is a damn good roster. If the members of this forum can't see that, then I can't help you plus your opinion means even less now. It's interesting how invested some people are in getting everyone to agree that JD is an 'awful' GM. You want to talk about awful GMs, you start with NYG (where do I start?), CAR (did to Young what we did to Zach), ARI (that Murray contract), DEN (Maybe Nix works out but the rest of the roster...), NE (what do they actually have now), TEN, and SD (they actually hit on the QB but completely ruined the rest of their roster). You could even argue BUF is in a crappy position now as a result of bad GMing, again even with the good QB pick. Those are teams that have effectively no hope of even competing for a playoff spot this year due to terrible drafting, FA signings, and roster mismanagement. The Jets cleared their crappy roster and, in 2022, drafted a bounty of talented young players. Their QB draft pick did not work out, as is the case with about 80% of 1st round QBs. Sucks, but we did something about it. A freak injury robbed us of 2023, but we are again in position to compete for the division, and possibly more. So with all the chest-beating about how bad JD is, we still have a roster that at least half of the other fan-bases would gladly trade their entire team for. And for every bad pick and signing he has made, most other GMs have a similar list that you just aren't as focused on. You want to call JD average, go for it. Perfectly fair. But anything beyond that is just sad, desperate trolling. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bicketybam Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 1 minute ago, nycdan said: It's interesting how invested some people are in getting everyone to agree that JD is an 'awful' GM. You want to talk about awful GMs, you start with NYG (where do I start?), CAR (did to Young what we did to Zach), ARI (that Murray contract), DEN (Maybe Nix works out but the rest of the roster...), NE (what do they actually have now), TEN, and SD (they actually hit on the QB but completely ruined the rest of their roster). You could even argue BUF is in a crappy position now as a result of bad GMing, again even with the good QB pick. Those are teams that have effectively no hope of even competing for a playoff spot this year due to terrible drafting, FA signings, and roster mismanagement. The Jets cleared their crappy roster and, in 2022, drafted a bounty of talented young players. Their QB draft pick did not work out, as is the case with about 80% of 1st round QBs. Sucks, but we did something about it. A freak injury robbed us of 2023, but we are again in position to compete for the division, and possibly more. So with all the chest-beating about how bad JD is, we still have a roster that at least half of the other fan-bases would gladly trade their entire team for. And for every bad pick and signing he has made, most other GMs have a similar list that you just aren't as focused on. You want to call JD average, go for it. Perfectly fair. But anything beyond that is just sad, desperate trolling. JD is the best GM in NY/NJ. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nycdan Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 10 minutes ago, bicketybam said: JD is the best GM in NY/NJ. See. That's a start! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claymation Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 37 minutes ago, Warfish said: Would you extend him today? After all, it's a "damn good roster" right, so he's done his job. And "why should anyone care about years ago", only the damn good roster now matters. So, how many years are you extending him today Clay? When you use the term "him", you are referring to Joe Douglas? If so, yes. How many years? Not sure. More than 1 year. Saleh, I am of the wait and see. Not sold on him, but he did have Zach and MiLF. I am willing to see how the season plays out. Since I have answered your questions, maybe you can extend the curtesy and answer mine. How would you rate the defense JD constructed? Top 5? Top 10? Average or bottom half? How would you rate GW? BH? Top 5? Top 10? Average or bottom half? How would you rate the OL? Top 5? Top 10? Average or bottom half? Last Question, How would you rate Aaron? Top 5? Top 10? Average or bottom half? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claymation Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 50 minutes ago, The Troll said: How do you leave $7 million for Dalvin Cook off your list? 80% of the Jets fan base knew he was completely washed and the ******* GM didn't. What is 80% of the fanbase wanted him? I'll take into the JetNationverse for 400 Alex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barton Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 He always looks for bargains when it comes to offensive skill players. So far it hasn’t worked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry McCockinner Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 1 hour ago, nycdan said: It's interesting how invested some people are in getting everyone to agree that JD is an 'awful' GM. You want to talk about awful GMs, you start with NYG (where do I start?), CAR (did to Young what we did to Zach), ARI (that Murray contract), DEN (Maybe Nix works out but the rest of the roster...), NE (what do they actually have now), TEN, and SD (they actually hit on the QB but completely ruined the rest of their roster). You could even argue BUF is in a crappy position now as a result of bad GMing, again even with the good QB pick. Those are teams that have effectively no hope of even competing for a playoff spot this year due to terrible drafting, FA signings, and roster mismanagement. The Jets cleared their crappy roster and, in 2022, drafted a bounty of talented young players. Their QB draft pick did not work out, as is the case with about 80% of 1st round QBs. Sucks, but we did something about it. A freak injury robbed us of 2023, but we are again in position to compete for the division, and possibly more. So with all the chest-beating about how bad JD is, we still have a roster that at least half of the other fan-bases would gladly trade their entire team for. And for every bad pick and signing he has made, most other GMs have a similar list that you just aren't as focused on. You want to call JD average, go for it. Perfectly fair. But anything beyond that is just sad, desperate trolling. The sticking point seems to be the W/L record which is understandable and not unreasonable. The point in sports is to win. It makes sense to a point but it's too brittle and not the best approach IMO. As a poker player I think I have a different perspective. It's important to not be results oriented when analyzing whether you're playing well in poker. You can be making the best decisions possible according to GTO and the cards just don't go your way. I think a similar (not exact) type of analysis makes some sense when looking at GM decisions. There's a lot of things, like in poker, that are simply out of their control (injuries, coaching decisions, etc). Focusing solely on the results ignores things that were done well in spite of the results. Over a large enough sample size the results will eventually normalize to positive if your decisions are consistently sound. In football there is also a very heavy weight assigned to hitting or missing on a QB. If you miss it weighs everything down. I'm not saying everything JD has done outside of QB has been perfect, it has not, but the roster is objectively strong as indicated by rankings by our own biased eyes and also (seemingly) every major sports outlet. The process and approach he took to building the roster seems to be sound. The strength of the roster relative to the rest of the league is the most important indicator for how well a GM is doing IMO. We have good depth at several positions and a lot of high end talent. No GM is going to hit on every draft pick, FA move or trade. They all have fails in every category and the hit rate on each is likely much lower than people expect. I see a GM who is doing a good job and would like to keep him. He needs to find a QB of the future and cannot have another Zach Wilson strike out but he's earned another shot at a young QB and building the roster into the future. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claymation Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 39 minutes ago, nycdan said: It's interesting how invested some people are in getting everyone to agree that JD is an 'awful' GM. You want to talk about awful GMs, you start with NYG (where do I start?), CAR (did to Young what we did to Zach), ARI (that Murray contract), DEN (Maybe Nix works out but the rest of the roster...), NE (what do they actually have now), TEN, and SD (they actually hit on the QB but completely ruined the rest of their roster). You could even argue BUF is in a crappy position now as a result of bad GMing, again even with the good QB pick. Those are teams that have effectively no hope of even competing for a playoff spot this year due to terrible drafting, FA signings, and roster mismanagement. The Jets cleared their crappy roster and, in 2022, drafted a bounty of talented young players. Their QB draft pick did not work out, as is the case with about 80% of 1st round QBs. Sucks, but we did something about it. A freak injury robbed us of 2023, but we are again in position to compete for the division, and possibly more. So with all the chest-beating about how bad JD is, we still have a roster that at least half of the other fan-bases would gladly trade their entire team for. And for every bad pick and signing he has made, most other GMs have a similar list that you just aren't as focused on. You want to call JD average, go for it. Perfectly fair. But anything beyond that is just sad, desperate trolling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warfish Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 18 minutes ago, Claymation said: When you use the term "him", you are referring to Joe Douglas? If so, yes. How many years? Not sure. More than 1 year. Yes, I meant JD. Sorry if that was confusing. So you have a GM who is 27-56, five consecutive losing seasons, and you'd extend him today, because his roster is good...on paper. In August, I appreciate your honesty, but there is no chance in any universe where I would extend that guy, with that resume, today. 18 minutes ago, Claymation said: Since I have answered your questions, maybe you can extend the curtesy and answer mine. Absolutely, I'm nothing if not verbose 18 minutes ago, Claymation said: How would you rate the defense JD constructed? Top 5? Top 10? Average or bottom half? I don't think the D's talent is top 5, personally. Nor was it last year or the year before. But the fact it keeps putting up top 5 seasons is, IMO, mostly on the two defensive Coaches (Saleh and Ulbrich) and the system, as opposed to the GM's picks. Same way IMO the offense, sans Zach Wilson, was not bottom 5 in talent, but kept producing bottom 5 results because of JD's consistent blunders at managing the QB position and OL, exacerbated by the Defensive-minded Saleh being poo as a HC on Offense, and bad choices for OCo's. 18 minutes ago, Claymation said: How would you rate GW? BH? Top 5? Top 10? Average or bottom half? You mean the two guys I loudly told the forum we had to draft long before JD picked them? My love of both is well known. But....if a schmuck like me using internet resources only saw how good they were, I don't give a pro GM that much credit for picking them. Just because most of the JN forum didn't want Hall pre-draft, same as most of this forum didn't want a 2nd drafted RB in 2024 (as I did), doesn't mean the GM is a genius for picking them. GW is a top 15 WR as of now. Hall is a top 10 RB. Hopefully both improve that this year with Rodgers. 18 minutes ago, Claymation said: How would you rate the OL? Top 5? Top 10? Average or bottom half? It's consistently been bottom 5 for five years now under JD's management. Just like the QB position. We don't know what it'll be in 2024 yet, it's quite good, albeit extremely fragile, on paper. 18 minutes ago, Claymation said: Last Question, How would you rate Aaron? Top 5? Top 10? Average or bottom half? Hard to rate a guy we paid 50 million for that has played only 4 plays. I'll be pleasantly surprised if post-injury, 40/41 year old Rodgers is a top 5 QB. Top 10 is possible. Top 15? That I could definitely believe that, especially with Hall and Allen at RB. I'm with slats on this, if Rodgers is very successful, it'll be because of the dominance of the Jets Running game, not because Rodgers himself is a pure top 5 passer. I also think there is every possibility that Rodgers gets hurt again and again missed a lot of time. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 11 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said: The sticking point seems to be the W/L record which is understandable and not unreasonable. The point in sports is to win. It makes sense to a point but it's too brittle and not the best approach IMO. As a poker player I think I have a different perspective. It's important to not be results oriented when analyzing whether you're playing well in poker. You can be making the best decisions possible according to GTO and the cards just don't go your way. I think a similar (not exact) type of analysis makes some sense when looking at GM decisions. There's a lot of things, like in poker, that are simply out of their control (injuries, coaching decisions, etc). Focusing solely on the results ignores things that were done well in spite of the results. Over a large enough sample size the results will eventually normalize to positive if your decisions are sound. In football there is also a very heavy weight assigned to hitting or missing on a QB. If you miss it weighs everything down. I'm not saying everything JD has done outside of QB has been perfect, it has not, but the roster is objectively strong as indicated by rankings by our own biased eyes and also (seemingly) every major sports outlet. The process and approach he took to building the roster seems to be sound. The strength of the roster relative to the rest of the league is the most important indicator for how well a GM is doing IMO. We have good depth at several positions and a lot of high end talent. No GM is going to hit on every draft pick, FA move or trade. They all have fails in every category and the hit rate on each is likely much lower than people expect. I see a GM who is doing a good job and would like to keep him. He needs to find a QB of the future and cannot have another Zach Wilson strike out but he's earned another shot at a young QB and building the roster into the future. Yeah this is how I'd look at it, too in general. Namely, the time to assess if he's doing a good job, even though it flies in the face of what many view as rational, is BEFORE the first game. What does the roster look like on the eve of the season -- that's when his GMing job (or well over 90% of it) is over and the chips fall where they may. For the most part, the ones who should get evaluated for the team's performance are the coaches and the players. If on balance this is a comparatively terrible roster, and some good (or anyway, not bad) coaching plus say a meh QB temporarily finding the fountain of youth make it look better than it is, the GM should still be fired. Think of the 2017 Jets had they ended up winning 8 games: Maccagnan still deserved to be fired for putting that sorry roster on the field; but going 8-8 with such a sorry roster could/should have - at least temporarily - saved Bowles from getting fired (as it did with Rex going 8-8 in 2013 with a team whose offense fielded no QB, no WRs, no TEs, no RB, and two plus-level OLmen, and a defense with 5+ below-average starters). The GM's job is to assemble a team that a reasonably intelligent + experienced football fan (or former player/coach) should look at and say, "This team, on paper, is solid enough and should make the playoffs if the starters aren't hit with a wave of injuries" OR "This team, on paper, is a laughable joke, and this GM's idea of making an effort looks indistinguishable from a planned preseason tank job." HOWEVER: the bit of wiggle-room that I'd insert, though, is if most or all the veterans that make the roster look good in the the morning of week 1 - particularly those with significant, prior injury histories - drop one by one and the team sucks because they're fielding 2nd & 3rd stringers at key positions again? Well that's what he bet on, just like betting on a high ceiling low floor draft pick. So because if we see the season go to the crapper again specifically due to injuries to the likes of Rodgers (and then Taylor), M.Williams, T.Smith, Moses, AVT, and Clark? I neither love nor hate Douglas as much as those who do, but if that's the reason the season goes bad and the Jets finish again with 7 or fewer wins, it's fair game to blame him for that. Fool me once, and such. Based on that I wouldn't extend him right this minute. But overall I get and agree with what you're saying. Also I fear they'd only replace him with the next far-worse Jets GM hire. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claymation Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 50 minutes ago, Warfish said: Yes, I meant JD. Sorry if that was confusing. So you have a GM who is 27-56, five consecutive losing seasons, and you'd extend him today, because his roster is good...on paper. In August, I appreciate your honesty, but there is no chance in any universe where I would extend that guy, with that resume, today. I am not worried about his record, I look how long it took Sandy Alderson to turn around the Mets in the early 2010's, 5 drafts. Sometimes it takes time. Like Alderson he had to change the entire culture of the franchise. I look at this team, and I see a legitimate Super Bowl contender. When was the last time that happened...2010? Maybe. They still had Sanchez at QB. And to me that warrants an extension because I have seen the alternatives. 50 minutes ago, Warfish said: Absolutely, I'm nothing if not verbose I don't think the D's talent is top 5, personally. Nor was it last year or the year before. But the fact it keeps putting up top 5 seasons is, IMO, mostly on the two defensive Coaches (Saleh and Ulbrich) and the system, as opposed to the GM's picks. What are the holes talent wise in this defense? I see the best secondary, and the best DL. The LB corp is probably a top 10 unit. Still good. 50 minutes ago, Warfish said: You mean the two guys I loudly told the forum we had to draft long before JD picked them? My love of both is well known. But....if a schmuck like me using internet resources only saw how good they were, I don't give a pro GM that much credit for picking them. Just because most of the JN forum didn't want Hall pre-draft, same as most of this forum didn't want a 2nd drafted RB in 2024 (as I did), doesn't mean the GM is a genius for picking them. GW is a top 15 WR as of now. Hall is a top 10 RB. Hopefully both improve that this year with Rodgers. I am not aware of your love for both players. Not doubting, just unaware. I loved them as well as did JD and his staff. And Hall is a top 3 in my opinion. 50 minutes ago, Warfish said: It's consistently been bottom 5 for five years now under JD's management. Just like the QB position. We don't know what it'll be in 2024 yet, it's quite good, albeit extremely fragile, on paper. I believe it's the best line since that 2010 team. And Tyron Smith might be the best OT the Jets have ever had. Fragile? Maybe. But this team does have depth with Olu and Schweitzer. They can withstand a handful of injuries but not what the experienced in '23. 50 minutes ago, Warfish said: Hard to rate a guy we paid 50 million for that has played only 4 plays. I'll be pleasantly surprised if post-injury, 40/41 year old Rodgers is a top 5 QB. Top 10 is possible. Top 15? That I could definitely believe that, especially with Hall and Allen at RB. I'm with slats on this, if Rodgers is very successful, it'll be because of the dominance of the Jets Running game, not because Rodgers himself is a pure top 5 passer. I also think there is every possibility that Rodgers gets hurt again and again missed a lot of time. That's fair, but I believe Aaron is still elite. He is intelligent, he is deceptive and he has the ball skills to deliver the football on time with perfect placement. He doesn't have to make off schedule plays. He just has to be a QB. I feel he will deliver that in spades. Many Jets fans wait for the fall, expect to get a nice candy bar and what they get is a rock instead. They have been conditioned to expect the worse. As for me, I see a team that is as bit as good as any other team out there. There are many other sites that share my belief. How many shares your opinion? We shall see who is right. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 1 hour ago, Warfish said: I don't think the D's talent is top 5, personally. Nor was it last year or the year before. But the fact it keeps putting up top 5 seasons is, IMO, mostly on the two defensive Coaches (Saleh and Ulbrich) and the system, as opposed to the GM's picks. Hey War, just curious, do you think the Jets offensive ineptitude puffed up the D’s rank a bit? In many games opposing offenses were playing clock-kill keep-away by mid-way through 3rd quarter against us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warfish Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 Just now, Claymation said: I am not worried about his record.....Sometimes it takes time. That's fine. He got six seasons. His fate, I'm sure, will be decided at the end of that sixth season. No one gets unlimited time. Just now, Claymation said: I look at this team, and I see a legitimate Super Bowl contender. When was the last time that happened...2010? I'd agree, 2010. Just now, Claymation said: And to me that warrants an extension because I have seen the alternatives. We can agree to disagree. Being better than what we had previously does not make him extension worthy, not with his record and decisions to-date. Just now, Claymation said: What are the holes talent wise in this defense? Pass rush, LB speed, Safety primarily. JJ and McD may address the pass rush aspect, thats TBD. Same for Reddick if he ever shows up, again, TBD. LB speed and overall quality is meh, even with QW's good year last year. It's still a spot that needs upgraded soon. Safety play is meh at best, but in fairness gets covered to some degree by the top 2 DB's being very good. Just now, Claymation said: I see the best secondary, and the best DL. In the NFL? If you say so. Just now, Claymation said: The LB corp is probably a top 10 unit. Still good. Nope. Just now, Claymation said: I am not aware of your love for both players. Not doubting, just unaware. Were you not on the forum at the time? I don't know how anyone could have missed it lol. Just now, Claymation said: And Hall is a top 3 in my opinion. Not yet, but he certainly has that potential. Better still when paired with a potential stud like Allen (who I did not advocate for by name but strongly advocated, and was trouched here, for wanting another co-equal RB to pair with Hall). Just now, Claymation said: I believe it's the best line since that 2010 team. If the entire line stays healthy, it certainly has that potential, yes. Just now, Claymation said: And Tyron Smith might be the best OT the Jets have ever had. Fragile? Maybe. Not at his age and health, no. But he's still very good, a big upgrade. Just now, Claymation said: But this team does have depth with Olu and Schweitzer. Schweitzer is trash tier, sorry. Olu tho I like. Glad we picked him. Just now, Claymation said: They can withstand a handful of injuries but not what the experienced in '23. One injury. I'd loathe to see this line beyond that. Just now, Claymation said: That's fair, but I believe Aaron is still elite. He is intelligent, he is deceptive and he has the ball skills to deliver the football on time with perfect placement. He doesn't have to make off schedule plays. He just has to be a QB. I feel he will deliver that in spades. Going to be exceedingly interesting to see, no question there. Just now, Claymation said: Many Jets fans wait for the fall, expect to get a nice candy bar and what they get is a rock instead. They have been conditioned to expect the worse. Some of us are what 40+ years of being a Jets Fan has made us. Just now, Claymation said: As for me, I see a team that is as bit as good as any other team out there. There are many other sites that share my belief. How many shares your opinion? I don't read a lot of sites on the NFL, the PFF's etc. of the world. I don't feel a need to rest my own opinion of the logical fallacy of an appeal to authority. I know enough about football, as a fan and former player of the game, that I don't need some other fan writing on PFF to tell me what my own eyes and experience can tell me. Just now, Claymation said: We shall see who is right. That's the fun, isn't it? You're optimistic, I'm pessimistic, but we both WANT the exact same thing, a Jets title in 2024. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warfish Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 9 minutes ago, jgb said: Hey War, just curious, do you think the Jets offensive ineptitude puffed up the D’s rank a bit? In many games opposing offenses were playing clock-kill keep-away by mid-way through 3rd quarter against us. Hard to say, because an offense as pathetic as ours has been also puts the ball in the opposing offenses hands a ton, and that gives the Jets D many more bad spots (after turnovers or bad punts) and gives just more chances overall to allow opposing O's to score on them by dint of # of possessions. It also tired our D out alot more, given our O can't sustain or give them much real rest. Certainly opposing O's going "protect the clock" late in games also factors, but I wouldn't say the Jets D is a paper tiger or a false stud the past two seasons with their top 5 finishes. Watching them, they were pretty damn amazing at times in alot of really tough spots, and their bend but don't break may allow yards sometimes, but was about as good as we could hope in keeping games score-wise as close as they could. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 4 minutes ago, Warfish said: That's fine. He got six seasons. His fate, I'm sure, will be decided at the end of that sixth season. No one gets unlimited time. 4 minutes ago, Warfish said: I'd agree, 2010. 4 minutes ago, Warfish said: We can agree to disagree. Being better than what we had previously does not make him extension worthy, not with his record and decisions to-date. 4 minutes ago, Warfish said: Pass rush, LB speed, Safety primarily. JJ and McD may address the pass rush aspect, thats TBD. Same for Reddick if he ever shows up, again, TBD. LB speed and overall quality is meh, even with QW's good year last year. It's still a spot that needs upgraded soon. Safety play is meh at best, but in fairness gets covered to some degree by the top 2 DB's being very good. In the NFL? If you say so. 4 minutes ago, Warfish said: Nope. 4 minutes ago, Warfish said: Were you not on the forum at the time? I don't know how anyone could have missed it lol. 4 minutes ago, Warfish said: Not yet, but he certainly has that potential. Better still when paired with a potential stud like Allen (who I did not advocate for by name but strongly advocated, and was trouched here, for wanting another co-equal RB to pair with Hall). 4 minutes ago, Warfish said: If the entire line stays healthy, it certainly has that potential, yes. 4 minutes ago, Warfish said: Not at his age and health, no. But he's still very good, a big upgrade. 4 minutes ago, Warfish said: Schweitzer is trash tier, sorry. Olu tho I like. Glad we picked him. One injury. I'd loathe to see this line beyond that. 4 minutes ago, Warfish said: Going to be exceedingly interesting to see, no question there. 4 minutes ago, Warfish said: Some of us are what 40+ years of being a Jets Fan has made us. 4 minutes ago, Warfish said: I don't read a lot of sites on the NFL, the PFF's etc. of the world. I don't feel a need to rest my own opinion of the logical fallacy of an appeal to authority. I know enough about football, as a fan and former player of the game, that I don't need some other fan writing on PFF to tell me what my own eyes and experience can tell me. 4 minutes ago, Warfish said: That's the fun, isn't it? You're optimistic, I'm pessimistic, but we both WANT the exact same thing, a Jets title in 2024. Dayenu! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 5 minutes ago, Warfish said: Hard to say, because an offense as pathetic as ours has been also puts the ball in the opposing offenses hands a ton, and that gives the Jets D many more bad spots (after turnovers or bad punts) and gives just more chances overall to allow opposing O's to score on them by dint of # of possessions. Certainly opposing O's going "protect the clock" late in games also factors, but I wouldn't say the Jets D is a paper tiger or a false stud the past two seasons with their top 5 finishes. Watching them, they were pretty damn amazing at times in alot of really tough spots, and their bend but don't break may allow yards sometimes, but was about as good as we could hope in keeping games score-wise as close as they could. Thanks, I’m pretty aligned with this. To be clear, if there was some puff up effect, I don’t think it means Jets would’ve been outside top 8 or so, clearly a great unit. But it’s also not just about the end of games. Last 3 years I would’ve gone into games against the Jets with a conservative game plan betting on Zach Wilson to stink, which he did 90% of the time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonkertons Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 What is this nonsense? We really out here crying about 1 year, $4M(or less) players? We really listing a 2nd rounder who flopped as "see, he can't find talent" when guys like Garrett and Breece exist? I'm sure I'll read the "he shouldn't get credit for those guys, they were can't miss" bullsh*t now. Looking forward to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claymation Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 3 minutes ago, Warfish said: You're optimistic, I'm pessimistic, but we both WANT the exact same thing, a Jets title in 2024. I wouldn't call you pessimistic nor I optimistic. We are both level headed. I sure as hell don't want to be lumped with those optimistic zealots. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 5 hours ago, The Troll said: How do you leave $7 million for Dalvin Cook off your list? 80% of the Jets fan base knew he was completely washed and the ******* GM didn't. That was bad. For 20 years the Jets have been the last chance retirement stop for washed up, cooked vets looking to cash in one last time. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Thornburgh Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 11 hours ago, Claymation said: Laser locked on GW in fantasy now that he finally has a real quarterback 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 11 minutes ago, Rich Thornburgh said: Laser locked on GW in fantasy now that he finally has a real quarterback Would you trade AJ Brown for Garrett straight up in dynasty? I have brown, an eagles fan has Garrett. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Thornburgh Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 5 minutes ago, jgb said: Would you trade AJ Brown for Garrett straight up in dynasty? I have brown, an eagles fan has Garrett. Thanks! Yes. I had Brown and Hurts last year. Both killed it until the playoffs and then they killed me. Something happened in Philly it’s like they quit on Sirianni 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bicketybam Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 44 minutes ago, Rich Thornburgh said: Laser locked on GW in fantasy now that he finally has a real quarterback Tyrod Taylor? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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