NFL Owners vote to allow team ownership by Private Equity

[Matt39]

13 minutes ago, Warfish said:

They'll also be sellouts with no shortage of people who want to go beyond that.

So bad for you =/= bad for everyone.

And local in-stadium fans are only part of a team's fandom and reach.  It's not always about what's good for you personally Matt, and your personal situation.  Should the team not play on a Sunday because little Timmy has a T-Ball game that day too?  No one begrudges prioritizing your family, but the world does not revolve around being easy for you, nor should it.  Seems 50,000 other fans manage to make it work just fine.

And again, prime-time already exist, and are great for the league to reach the biggest # of fans possible in the most prestigious way possible, and these primetime games have absolutely nothing to do with this news about minority ownership rules.

The season ticket holder will sell off the prime time games. Not everything is a spreadsheet. There are personal investments in sports. You sound like a robot.  Having fans who root for the team enough to purchase season tix you’d like to see in the stadium. 

[bicketybam]

35 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Thanks Roger. there was a playoff game on Peacock last year. 

 

 

Someone start a GoFundMe for Matt. Goal is $8.

[Matt39]

Just now, bicketybam said:

Someone start a GoFundMe for Matt. Goal is $8.

We all can’t own a Kmart hot tub

[bicketybam]

23 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Ask any season ticket holder how they feel about prime time games. The Jets schedule is brutal this year for a fan with a family. I’m sure they look good on a spreadsheet though. 

I got extra ADD meds I can sell for the right price 😜

[Matt39]

1 minute ago, bicketybam said:

I got extra ADD meds I can sell for the right price 😜

They keep u thin

[bicketybam]

3 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

We all can’t own a Kmart hot tub

You want a GofundMe for that too? Now you are borderline begging. 

[Warfish]

4 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

The season ticket holder will sell off the prime time games.

Some might.  

4 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Not everything is a spreadsheet. There are personal investments in sports. You sound like a robot.  Having fans who root for the team enough to purchase season tix you’d like to see in the stadium. 

The teams wants to see fans in the stadium, they could care less which fans sit in those seats.  Same as it's always been.  They prefer it's home-team fans, but they'll happily sell to out of town fans too, rival fans, etc.  Again, same as it's always been.

I'm going to bring you back to the topic though, what actual harm comes from this 10% ownership thing Matt.  What so-called "harm" that hasn't already been a regular thing for years, like Monday Night games, the Sunday Ticket existing for out of towners to see their team, or fear mongering about the removal of tailgating for something something reasons?

[Larz]

Great. JetBlue is going to bring Zach back @bitonti

[RutgersJetFan]

8 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Some might.  

The teams wants to see fans in the stadium, they could care less which fans sit in those seats.  Same as it's always been.  They prefer it's home-team fans, but they'll happily sell to out of town fans too, rival fans, etc.  Again, same as it's always been.

Do they though? Kids bring in so much more revenue on game day. I took my daughter to a minor league game last week and even there I'm pretty sure I spent close to $10k on snacks.

[Matt39]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

They'll also be sellouts with no shortage of people who want to go beyond that.

So bad for you =/= bad for everyone.

And local in-stadium fans are only part of a team's fandom and reach.  It's not always about what's good for you personally Matt, and your personal situation.  Should the team not play on a Sunday because little Timmy has a T-Ball game that day too?  No one begrudges prioritizing your family, but the world does not revolve around being easy for you, nor should it.  Seems 50,000 other fans manage to make it work just fine.

And again, prime-time already exist, and are great for the league to reach the biggest # of fans possible in the most prestigious way possible, and these primetime games have absolutely nothing to do with this news about minority ownership rules.

Division 1 teams could easily eliminate student seating and make more money. There’s an element of the fan/team relationship that obviously you don’t see as important and a downstream impact of PE will only further that. And no, I don’t have my hand on the Bible here so I won’t be giving you data and proof to win some pointless internet battle.

[Warfish]

15 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Division 1 teams could easily eliminate student seating and make more money.

They could try. I doubt they'd be successful.

Not exactly apples to apples given the nature of a (often Public) University and paid students vs. a Private Business offering a product.

15 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

There’s an element of the fan/team relationship that obviously you don’t see as important

What "element" is that?  That you personally don't like Monday Night games because you have a family and it's too much effort for you to go?, So the team should bow to YOUR personal preferences or they lose an "element" of fandom? 

You might want to consider that you don't speak for all fans, and that things the league wants for the overall benefit of the league (and the players via a higher salary cap resulting from a better TV contract) and is enjoyed by many fans (both local and non-local) might be more important to more people than the things that are important to you and a subset of fans.

15 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

and a downstream impact of PE will only further that.

OK, what IS that "downstream impact" on the "fan element" specifically then?

I mean surely you can at least even verbalize the supposed threat, as you see it, right, in more than vague meaningless generic pap like "downstream impact on the fan element", lol.

[Scott Dierking]

Oh, and BTW, the NHL, NBA and MLB already allow up to 30% of  private equity ownership of teams.

But, it will be the ruination of the NFL. 

[RutgersJetFan]

15 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

Oh, and BTW, the NHL, NBA and MLB already allow up to 30% of  private equity ownership of teams.

But, it will be the ruination of the NFL. 

Legit shocked that a man like myself with my level of wealth wasn't aware of this.

[Jet_Engine1]

3 hours ago, rex-n-effect said:

People generally aren't emotionally attached to the local Target or feel an obligation to "their" Target even when they get poor service and products. 

You've never met my wife...

[Jet_Engine1]

2 hours ago, thebuzzardman said:

NO WAY! IT'S THE WORST FORM OF SOCIALISM! HOW DARE THE GOVERNMENT SET ASIDE ANY MONEY FOR MY GOLDEN YEARS. IF I WANT TO SPEND THAT MONEY NOW ON HOOKERS AND BLOW, IT'S MY RIGHT!!!!!

 

Welcome to Libertarianism. SS should be totally sh*tcanned, let me invest how I choose... I mean, they've already taken my money for 40 years, and I'll see a fraction of what I should...

 

But anyway, I digress. Grrrr *mad a football noises* grrr...

[Jet_Engine1]

2 hours ago, thebuzzardman said:

I just want the government to give me a battle tank

They only gave me a stinkin' Bradley. When I complained, they told me "We have tanks at home!"

 

[Jet Nut]

4 hours ago, Matt39 said:

This improves the fan experience how? Oh right it doesn’t. 

I’m not the one bitching about the fan experience.  
That would be you. 

[jetsfan56]

I kinda like Social Security, don’t you?

Yes and I am making full use of it and have been very happy with the local department people I have dealt with. I am afraid though that the Washington crowd has been working hard at bleeping it up 🤷‍♂️. Just my 1/2 cents worth. Not worth 2 cents anymore.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[Jet Nut]

4 hours ago, rex-n-effect said:

The NFL wants fans to have emotional attachments to teams because that's what gets people to spend small fortunes on the game. If people thought of the local team as a business, the league would make far less money. People generally aren't emotionally attached to the local Target or feel an obligation to "their" Target even when they get poor service and products. 

And practically, this is casual entertainment for most people who watch games who have no interest in the business side of the game and have no responsibility to spend any time or brain power on the subject.

That’s exactly the relationships fans have with their teams.  It’s not Target, it’s much more.  
Being attached to teams and players has always been a part of NFL reality.  
Just another reason to want to keep players on the field.  The tired old argument that safety is for pussies and has ruined the league is funny when it comes from someone who posts here all the time.

[jetsfan56]

Whenever there’s a situation with minority investors there are going to be questions, and a lot of them can be irritating. At the end of the day though, they’re coming from someone in the minority, no?
The type situation I never saw lasting was the “marriage” between the Mara’s and the Tisch’s, yet it has, so who knows with these type things?
 

And a forced marriage at that!


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[Jet Nut]

3 hours ago, Matt39 said:

What does the Sunday Ticket set you back this year anyways?

What did you & others do before Sunday Ticket?  

Did you get every game on TV?  No

Did you get your home teams games on local network TV?  Yes.

Did that change?  No

Is anyone twisting my arm to pay for Sunday Ticket to get every Jet game in Florida?  No.

Was it different before Sunday Ticket?  No

Do I whine about the cost? No

[rex-n-effect]

4 hours ago, Warfish said:

People get attached/loyal to LOCAL businesses all the time.  Many people make some or all of their buying decisions (or used to, pre-Amazon, at least) based on their desire to be supporting local business.  

Target isn't a local business.

Teams represent their metropolitan areas, but fans have been aware for decades that these sports are businesses, and that these teams, if desired, can be moved somewhere else.  Sports being business shouldn't be new or news to anyone.

I want to ask again, what is the great fear here, specifically?  What are the opponents of this fearful will actually happen that is bad because of this 10% ownership thing?  So far all I'm reading is the usual "hate the rich, anti-capitalism" stuff so popular these days, not actual tangible harms being predicted.

When you find me people who refer to their local coffee shop in a "we" context like fans do about their sports teams, then we're having the same discussion. Until then, you're just talking vaguely around my point or in the case of your last paragraph, not addressing anything I said. 

[Jet Nut]

3 hours ago, Matt39 said:

The season ticket holder will sell off the prime time games. Not everything is a spreadsheet. There are personal investments in sports. You sound like a robot.  Having fans who root for the team enough to purchase season tix you’d like to see in the stadium. 

If they can’t make it they will.  So what, that’s their choice.  Just like if there’s a wedding on a Sunday where there’s a home game you’d sell.

Fans moan.  I dragged myself to MNF games and if I couldn’t take off Tuesday morning I found a way to drag my ass to work.  Yeah, I might be tired but I’d get to work if I had to.  If you’re playing multiple weekday games it’s because your team is good.  When the team is good and they’re playing on MNF no one sells their tickets other than a small minority of fans 

[Biggs]

4 hours ago, Matt39 said:

Fans have emotional attachments to their teams. The history, family connections, the team name (Redskins/Commanders debacle) all matter. Goodell obviously doesn’t see it that way, which is likely how he is where he is. He doesn’t have attachments to anything besides money.

Spot on.

Fantasy football and legalized gambling sponsored by the NFL are designed to get rid of emotional attachement to teams.  Owners who are in collusion with each other doesn't promote excellence, It promotes parity.  

The NFL has increased the price of it's 5 game package plus NFL Red Zone 50% this year.  Not fan friendly.  

We grew up in an era of teams owned by local owners who like the fans lived and worked where the teams played.   The private equity model is just another break down of that model.   The owner and the fan aren't in it together.  The owner has been completely detached from the economics of his team.  He's a shareholder in a league.  Private equity is another difusion of the model.  A private equity company who's revenue is attached to the league could care less about wins and losses of the team they own.   You might well see a couple of private equity companies owning 10% of multiple teams. 

[Warfish]

15 minutes ago, rex-n-effect said:

When you find me people who refer to their local coffee shop in a "we" context like fans do about their sports teams, then we're having the same discussion. Until then, you're just talking vaguely around my point or in the case of your last paragraph, not addressing anything I said. 

You said "People generally aren't emotionally attached to the local Target" the way they are to their local sports team.

I said you're right, because no Target is local.  But many people do get quite attached/emotional about truly local business.

If you think they don't because of some semantics thing like the use of "we", well, that just isn't worth a serious response tbqh.  The "we" thing is quite sports specific, it's not relevant to what was being answered.

Examples of people being emotionally invested/attached to their local businesses are plenty and widespread, if you care to look.

[greenwichjetfan]

3 hours ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Do they though? Kids bring in so much more revenue on game day. I took my daughter to a minor league game last week and even there I'm pretty sure I spent close to $10k on snacks.

And you enjoyed every moment of it!

[RutgersJetFan]

3 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

And you enjoyed every moment of it!

Some! SOME!!

[Bugg]

20 hours ago, PS17 said:

The NFL thinks its too big to fail. And it is, for now. But little by little every cumulative dumb, greedy decision erodes the league just a bit. Eventually the empire will fall. Baseball was America’s sport until it wasn’t. 

Telling FB post, read the other day; Jerry Garcia not only had no issue with fans bootlegging Dead shows, he encouraged it. Had designated taping areas so the sound quality was good.  Don't think he had any idea who Adam Smith was, but guy understood spreading the word would help sell his music long term. There's a reason Dead and Co sell out and have legions of teens and 20 something fans.(other that John Mayer).  And that along the same lines, bands like Zeppelin and Springsteen only wished they had some of the tapes of their old shows, but they don't because they cracked down mercilessly on bootlegging of any kind. They now regret it; was a bad decision to not have fans spread the word. 

https://www.facebook.com/musicof60s70s80s90s/posts/888074786689236/

 

The PSL boomerang should have been a wakeup call; it wasn't. 

NFL as a TV product is admittedly close bulletproof. And by themselves, hedge funds do act as an agent for investment. But where it will go south here is trying to bleed every dollar out of every TV deal(STREAMING SUCKS!) and every seat in the stadium. There is a point that too much is too much. 

Streaming is no better tech than any old  cable package, period. Simply another way to bleed fans. And after they put a playoffs game on what amounts to streaming PPV, millions of those customers didn't watch that game that otherwise they would have absolutely watched. MLB and the NBA are learning this now. Expecting to see a Yankees game on YES every summer night at 7PM; not so fast. Their TV deals may look rosy, but long term they're stupid business wise. (NHL kind of understands what it is, but is making other mistakes such as  issues with a cap, and Canadian teams, etc). 

Nobody is too big to fail if you're stupid. The streaming craziness is stupid. There will be more of it. 

And anyone who went thru the mess that MetLife stadium is knows what ever the bottom line $, Jets long term hurt their fan base. Keep doing that, treating your customer base like total sh1t and at some point customers figure out how to live without you. And that's true if you're selling canned beans or an NFL team. 

[Scott Dierking]

54 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Spot on.

Fantasy football and legalized gambling sponsored by the NFL are designed to get rid of emotional attachement to teams.  Owners who are in collusion with each other doesn't promote excellence, It promotes parity.  

The NFL has increased the price of it's 5 game package plus NFL Red Zone 50% this year.  Not fan friendly.  

We grew up in an era of teams owned by local owners who like the fans lived and worked where the teams played.   The private equity model is just another break down of that model.   The owner and the fan aren't in it together.  The owner has been completely detached from the economics of his team.  He's a shareholder in a league.  Private equity is another difusion of the model.  A private equity company who's revenue is attached to the league could care less about wins and losses of the team they own.   You might well see a couple of private equity companies owning 10% of multiple teams. 

Would you rather the NFL operate like MLB, where there are great disparities of the value of franchises and revenue streams, which of course affect the ability of clubs to spend on payroll. That creates a great disparity in talent, which can then trickle down to competition of the league. 

It is a slippery slope. 

[Bugg]

2 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

Would you rather the NFL operate like MLB, where there are great disparities of the value of franchises and revenue streams, which of course affect the ability of clubs to spend on payroll. That creates a great disparity in talent, which can then trickle down to competition of the league. 

It is a slippery slope. 

There are already huge disparities in NFL franchise values. Cowboys, Giants, Rams, Bears, Steelers and Pats are worth way more than Panthers, Jags and Titans. Then you get into how  a cap that obsesses over shared revenue doesn't take into account state and local taxes, not for teams nor players. Nor cost of doing business in a specific market. Why the Giants ownership went to JerryDome and the very next day called the MetLife builders and asked what the f___ did they pay $ 1 billion for? 

[Scott Dierking]

1 minute ago, Bugg said:

There are already huge disparities in NFL franchise values. Cowboys, Giants, Rams, Bears, Steelers and Pats are worth way more than Panthers, Jags and Titans. Then you get into how  a cap that obsesses over shared revenue doesn't take into account state and local taxes, not for teams nor players. Nor cost of doing business in a specific market. Why the Giants ownership went to JerryDome and the very next day called the MetLife builders and asked what the f___ did they pay $ 1 billion for? 

Yes, of course there is. I am unsure if there is a perfect way.

But, which model of revenue sharing do you feel is better? NFL or MLB?

[Biggs]

14 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

Would you rather the NFL operate like MLB, where there are great disparities of the value of franchises and revenue streams, which of course affect the ability of clubs to spend on payroll. That creates a great disparity in talent, which can then trickle down to competition of the league. 

It is a slippery slope. 

Yes.  I would also love to see the league shrink.

[Bugg]

1 minute ago, Scott Dierking said:

Yes, of course there is. I am unsure if there is a perfect way.

But, which model of revenue sharing do you feel is better? NFL or MLB?

Think they should simply let teams sink or swim. 

There have always been and will always be haves and havenots. The Havenots get a shot occasionally if things break just right and they're well run. But again the lines blur because some small markets with low taxes and local costs can be competitive. Pro sports in North America unlike Euro soccer spends a lot of time trying to address these disparities but don't do a good job of it. US has homogenized dramatically over the last 25 years such being a big market isn't necessarily a big advantage any more.  You want to reach into your pockets and pay Sauce Gardner, or  Juan Soto or  Adam Fox a pile of $? Go right ahead. Why should I as a fan care about any of that? The obsession with salary caps is total stupidity. 

[Matt39]

49 minutes ago, Bugg said:

Telling FB post, read the other day; Jerry Garcia not only had no issue with fans bootlegging Dead shows, he encouraged it. Had designated taping areas so the sound quality was good.  Don't think he had any idea who Adam Smith was, but guy understood spreading the word would help sell his music long term. There's a reason Dead and Co sell out and have legions of teens and 20 something fans.(other that John Mayer).  And that along the same lines, bands like Zeppelin and Springsteen only wished they had some of the tapes of their old shows, but they don't because they cracked down mercilessly on bootlegging of any kind. They now regret it; was a bad decision to not have fans spread the word. 

https://www.facebook.com/musicof60s70s80s90s/posts/888074786689236/

 

The PSL boomerang should have been a wakeup call; it wasn't. 

NFL as a TV product is admittedly close bulletproof. And by themselves, hedge funds do act as an agent for investment. But where it will go south here is trying to bleed every dollar out of every TV deal(STREAMING SUCKS!) and every seat in the stadium. There is a point that too much is too much. 

Streaming is no better tech than any old  cable package, period. Simply another way to bleed fans. And after they put a playoffs game on what amounts to streaming PPV, millions of those customers didn't watch that game that otherwise they would have absolutely watched. MLB and the NBA are learning this now. Expecting to see a Yankees game on YES every summer night at 7PM; not so fast. Their TV deals may look rosy, but long term they're stupid business wise. (NHL kind of understands what it is, but is making other mistakes such as  issues with a cap, and Canadian teams, etc). 

Nobody is too big to fail if you're stupid. The streaming craziness is stupid. There will be more of it. 

And anyone who went thru the mess that MetLife stadium is knows what ever the bottom line $, Jets long term hurt their fan base. Keep doing that, treating your customer base like total sh1t and at some point customers figure out how to live without you. And that's true if you're selling canned beans or an NFL team. 

Streams still lag and are bad overall for watching sports

[Matt39]

3 hours ago, Warfish said:

They could try. I doubt they'd be successful.

Not exactly apples to apples given the nature of a (often Public) University and paid students vs. a Private Business offering a product.

What "element" is that?  That you personally don't like Monday Night games because you have a family and it's too much effort for you to go?, So the team should bow to YOUR personal preferences or they lose an "element" of fandom? 

You might want to consider that you don't speak for all fans, and that things the league wants for the overall benefit of the league (and the players via a higher salary cap resulting from a better TV contract) and is enjoyed by many fans (both local and non-local) might be more important to more people than the things that are important to you and a subset of fans.

OK, what IS that "downstream impact" on the "fan element" specifically then?

I mean surely you can at least even verbalize the supposed threat, as you see it, right, in more than vague meaningless generic pap like "downstream impact on the fan element", lol.

Do you get outside often? (Rhetorical) The more money that’s been shoved into the league, the worse the fan experience has gotten. The draft has been turned into a prime time circus sideshow for one. You have to have a ticket to go to training camp when you used to be able to show up at Hofstra. Less open practices. Pay to watch playoff games on a sh*tty stream that’s dependent on how your overpriced internet feed is that day. What else do you need? The league hasn’t monetized tailgating yet, but you do have to pay for a meaningless parking pass. I’d imagine a grill fee or whatever else they can think of could be next.