New York Jets, Haason Reddick Contract Saga No Longer About Fines. Game checks are now on the line, to the tune of $852,941 for each game missed.

[TuscanyTile2]

18 hours ago, Be_a_Jet said:

this whole ordeal is getting ridiculous and idk if anyone is going to budge. 

I know I'm not going to!

[Vader]

15 minutes ago, batman10023 said:

Can you address why he didn’t hold in?

The pressure target is Woody Johnson, not JD. And the play is a PR play. Once he reports he takes that play off the board. The "hold-out just to report" is a maximum pressure campaign on Woody Johnson, more than on JD. Woody Johnson goes down in infamy if the Jets let Reddick sit and they do not win the SuperBowl.

[The Voice of Reason]

16 hours ago, Doggin94it said:

 

The relevant language is this language in the player contract:

EXTENSION. Unless this contract specifically provides otherwise, if Player becomes a member of the Armed Forces of the United States or any other country, or retires from professional football as an active player, or otherwise fails or refuses to perform his services under this contract, then this contract will be tolled between the date of Player’s induction into the Armed Forces, or his retirement, or his failure or refusal to perform, and the later date of his return to professional football. During the period this contract is tolled, Player will not be entitled to any compensation or benefits. On Player’s return to professional football, the term of this contract will be extended for a period of time equal to the number of seasons (to the nearest multiple of one) remaining at the time the contract was tolled. The right of renewal, if any, contained in this contract will remain in effect until the end of any such extended term. 

That doesn't prove anything

[Be_a_Jet]

Pressure heating up.

[funaz]

42 minutes ago, Vader said:

The pressure target is Woody Johnson, not JD. And the play is a PR play. Once he reports he takes that play off the board. The "hold-out just to report" is a maximum pressure campaign on Woody Johnson, more than on JD. Woody Johnson goes down in infamy if the Jets let Reddick sit and they do not win the SuperBowl.

This is ridiculousness filled with your own biases.

If Reddick doesn’t report that means nothing for woody or JD. Reddick is a back of the roster player not an elite super star that is going to move the needle either way.

[The Voice of Reason]

2 hours ago, Vader said:

A fresh perspective on the framing around Reddick-Jets:

After reading some of the opinions here I think the framing of the impasse is not quite right.

People think that Reddick has no leverage, and can't quite see the rationale for his hold out. This is incorrect. Reddick absolutely has leverage and from a negotiating perspective is a rational actor:

People are framing this is a JD v Reddick thing. It is not. Sure, JD wants to win a Superbowl, but as a GM he's also responsible for the roster long-term. He is dug in because he's doing his job. The negotiations are hard-ball and the opposition has an extreme position. But Team Reddick is not negotiating with JD. They are negotiating with Woody Johnson. Woody Johnson is the guy that will intercede and say pay him, and if he doesn't it is Woody Johnson that is responsible for not maximizing his GM's actions, it will be Woody Johnson that is responsible for not maximizing the Super Bowl window. Make no mistake Woody wants a Super Bowl. With Aaron Rodgers, the window is now. The window is open for like 1-2 years? It's now, it's not really even next year tbh. If the Jets don't win a Superbowl this year, with this roster, with what JD has put together, the season is a failure, and it's diminishing returns going forward each year as AR ages every year and not like a Roquefort.

The big question that will be asked after this year if the Jets do not sign Reddick, and he doesn't fold, and we don't win the superbowl, or lose to KC in the AFCCG: Why didn't they pay Reddick in order to put the roster over the top?  Why didn't they maximize the roster when they had the chance? Why did they squander a once-in-a-lifetime-opportunity with A-Rod over concerns about the future of the roster when the future is irrelevant. For this team, this roster, against the likes of SF and the Chiefs, they are either all-in on a superbowl or they are just being cheap. 

Is Reddick engaging in brinksmanship? Yes. Does that often look like that individual has no leverage? Yes.

What should Woody Johnson do? Go for it with the best roster since Vinny T was QB and Parcells was HC? Or sub-optimize the roster now so he can disburse funds sign xyz players to second contracts when this window has either completely closed and/or is not guaranteed?

The Window is now is Reddick's leverage. And it's a very smart but risky negotiating strategy.

This isn't leverage... It's a hailmary... It shouldn't work... If he doesn't report the trade at the deadline for another pass rusher like clowney... 

[The Voice of Reason]

45 minutes ago, Vader said:

The pressure target is Woody Johnson, not JD. And the play is a PR play. Once he reports he takes that play off the board. The "hold-out just to report" is a maximum pressure campaign on Woody Johnson, more than on JD. Woody Johnson goes down in infamy if the Jets let Reddick sit and they do not win the SuperBowl.

And if the jets win without him...? 

[Vader]

35 minutes ago, funaz said:

This is ridiculousness filled with your own biases.

If Reddick doesn’t report that means nothing for woody or JD. Reddick is a back of the roster player not an elite super star that is going to move the needle either way.

ohk. sure.

[Vader]

34 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

And if the jets win without him...? 

That's the gamble he is taking, and the odds are in vastly in his favor. The odds to win a superbowl are not good to begin with. However, right now it is not about winning the superbowl, it's about pressure surrounding the risk for Woody Johnson to try to win a superbowl without Reddick, when he very clearly can have Reddick.

[Vader]

Maybe that's how it works in Madden...

[The Voice of Reason]

29 minutes ago, Vader said:

That's the gamble he is taking, and the odds are in vastly in his favor. The odds to win a superbowl are not good to begin with. However, right now it is not about winning the superbowl, it's about pressure surrounding the risk for Woody Johnson to try to win a superbowl without Reddick, when he very clearly can have Reddick.

No they aren't... It's a hailmary... And it won't work.. 

Jets have a good chance to win Monday... And should be 4-1  by week 5... What leverage is there then.. 

The he just becomes a loser... Hoping that the team gets injured or loses without him... 

[Vader]

20 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

No they aren't... It's a hailmary... And it won't work.. 

Jets have a good chance to win Monday... And should be 4-1  by week 5... What leverage is there then.. 

The he just becomes a loser... Hoping that the team gets injured or loses without him... 

You don't really understand. It's about the Superbowl. Not week 1...

[The Voice of Reason]

4 minutes ago, Vader said:

You don't really understand. It's about the Superbowl. Not week 1...

I understand perfectly... But when they are up and keep winning is he going to tuck his tail and whimper in... Or is he going to root against the team the whole year until he has to show up... 

It's not like he can hold out the whole year without severely injuring his stock. 

He doesn't have luxury of time. 

[Jetsplayer21]

6 hours ago, GangGreened said:

If you honestly believe after sitting out the entirety of 2024, Douglas will hold his rights for 2025 and deal with the headache instead of unloading him for a 5th round pick, you’re mistaken. The Jets get absolutely nothing in that scenario. They will cut their losses. They will not hold him in 2025 out of spite.

Sorry weak thinking like this is why Reddick isn’t showing up. If he believes there was even a decent chance JD would do that, he would be playing this yr. So he has to believe it, and if I was JD I’d make it known he will do just that. Plus chance of him finally realizing he is not in control and shows up to play ( next yr ) is worth more than a lousy 5th round pick. 

[Larz]

The “pressure-o-meter” moved in Reddicks favor today 

[Vader]

7 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

I understand perfectly... But when they are up and keep winning is he going to tuck his tail and whimper in... Or is he going to root against the team the whole year until he has to show up... 

It's not like he can hold out the whole year without severely injuring his stock. 

He doesn't have luxury of time. 

You don't understand negotiation or game theory. I'm talking about moves in a game theoretic environment. You are talking past my points. He is gambling that Woody Johnson will fold when Woody Johnson realizes he's not maximizing perhaps his only window to win a superbowl. It's a tactic that I recognize and we'll see what happens. I'm not predicting anything, I'm simply providing an alternative framing that would explain the drama.

[RevisIsland610]

3 hours ago, Vader said:

A fresh perspective on the framing around Reddick-Jets:

After reading some of the opinions here I think the framing of the impasse is not quite right.

People think that Reddick has no leverage, and can't quite see the rationale for his hold out. This is incorrect. Reddick absolutely has leverage and from a negotiating perspective is a rational actor:

People are framing this is a JD v Reddick thing. It is not. Sure, JD wants to win a Superbowl, but as a GM he's also responsible for the roster long-term. He is dug in because he's doing his job. The negotiations are hard-ball and the opposition has an extreme position. But Team Reddick is not negotiating with JD. They are negotiating with Woody Johnson. Woody Johnson is the guy that will intercede and say pay him, and if he doesn't it is Woody Johnson that is responsible for not maximizing his GM's actions, it will be Woody Johnson that is responsible for not maximizing the Super Bowl window. Make no mistake Woody wants a Super Bowl. With Aaron Rodgers, the window is now. The window is open for like 1-2 years? It's now, it's not really even next year tbh. If the Jets don't win a Superbowl this year, with this roster, with what JD has put together, the season is a failure, and it's diminishing returns going forward each year as AR ages every year and not like a Roquefort.

The big question that will be asked after this year if the Jets do not sign Reddick, and he doesn't fold, and we don't win the superbowl, or lose to KC in the AFCCG: Why didn't they pay Reddick in order to put the roster over the top?  Why didn't they maximize the roster when they had the chance? Why did they squander a once-in-a-lifetime-opportunity with A-Rod over concerns about the future of the roster when the future is irrelevant. For this team, this roster, against the likes of SF and the Chiefs, they are either all-in on a superbowl or they are just being cheap. 

Is Reddick engaging in brinksmanship? Yes. Does that often look like that individual has no leverage? Yes.

What should Woody Johnson do? Go for it with the best roster since Vinny T was QB and Parcells was HC? Or sub-optimize the roster now so he can disburse funds sign xyz players to second contracts when this window has either completely closed and/or is not guaranteed?

The Window is now is Reddick's leverage. And it's a very smart but risky negotiating strategy.

Risky yes, smart no. He's a 30yo edge rusher who depends on speed risking sitting out the year and accruing millions in fines and missed paychecks and then looking for an extension when he will be 31 next year. No, not smart at all. 

[The Voice of Reason]

13 minutes ago, Vader said:

You don't understand negotiation or game theory. I'm talking about moves in a game theoretic environment. You are talking past my points. He is gambling that Woody Johnson will fold when Woody Johnson realizes he's not maximizing perhaps his only window to win a superbowl. It's a tactic that I recognize and we'll see what happens. I'm not predicting anything, I'm simply providing an alternative framing that would explain the drama.

I understand game theory... And I understand your point... I completely disagree that it is a viable strategy... Because if he folds it brings on a culture of future players doing the same strategy... Any good business person would never fold to this... Especially a player that has never done anything for the team... 

The future ramifications of folding would be catastrophic. 

[GangGreened]

20 minutes ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

Sorry weak thinking like this is why Reddick isn’t showing up. If he believes there was even a decent chance JD would do that, he would be playing this yr. So he has to believe it, and if I was JD I’d make it known he will do just that. Plus chance of him finally realizing he is not in control and shows up to play ( next yr ) is worth more than a lousy 5th round pick. 

Again, this is emotional fan driven non sense. Douglas, or any GM for that matter, is not going to hold a player hostage if they refuse to ever play for them, after sitting out for an entire season. Reddick doesn’t want to sit out this year, but I will make you whatever bet you want that if he does, he will be moved in the offseason.

[Vader]

15 minutes ago, RevisIsland610 said:

Risky yes, smart no. He's a 30yo edge rusher who depends on speed risking sitting out the year and accruing millions in fines and missed paychecks and then looking for an extension when he will be 31 next year. No, not smart at all. 

it's very smart. the moment he reports he's playing on a prove it year and as result won't get paid with Sauce's money.  he could have reported a month ago or next week. the only thing keeping any deal alive is the holdout and the pressure on Woody.

Hassan Reddick doesn't care about the Jets or if he ever plays for the Jets. He's working game theory angles for his last big contract. It's likely they have known for a long time that Woody was not going to offer the contract. Philly didn't offer the contract. 

Hassan Reddick wants to get paid. Clowney matched a career high in sacks (9.5) after 30. Sitting out a year may or may not hurt Reddick on a contract tbh. He's coming off a pro bowl year (back to back) and prior was DPOY.

[Jetsplayer21]

1 minute ago, GangGreened said:

Again, this is emotional fan driven non sense. Douglas, or any GM for that matter, is not going to hold a player hostage if they refuse to ever play for them, after sitting out for an entire season. Reddick doesn’t want to sit out this year, but I will make you whatever bet you want that if he does, he will be moved in the offseason.

I don’t think ANY other gm trades for Reddick without understanding he won’t holdout. Especially after trying but failing to come to agreement before the trade. So I can’t say JD will not do what you say he won’t, because he already did what the rest of the GMs would not have done. I will bet you Reddick does show up at some point this yr, just so he is free at beginning of free agency. As opposed to JD at least slow playing a trade, right before draft or even during. 

[Vader]

8 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

I understand game theory... And I understand your point... I completely disagree that it is a viable strategy... Because if he folds it brings on a culture of future players doing the same strategy... Any good business person would never fold to this... Especially a player that has never done anything for the team... 

The future ramifications of folding would be catastrophic. 

I didn't say it was or was not "viable". I laid out the framing for a game theory view of these negotiations 

[Vader]

8 minutes ago, GangGreened said:

Again, this is emotional fan driven non sense. Douglas, or any GM for that matter, is not going to hold a player hostage if they refuse to ever play for them, after sitting out for an entire season. Reddick doesn’t want to sit out this year, but I will make you whatever bet you want that if he does, he will be moved in the offseason.

that's Reddick's plan... 100%.

[Sperm Edwards]

58 minutes ago, Vader said:

You don't understand negotiation or game theory. I'm talking about moves in a game theoretic environment. You are talking past my points. He is gambling that Woody Johnson will fold when Woody Johnson realizes he's not maximizing perhaps his only window to win a superbowl. It's a tactic that I recognize and we'll see what happens. I'm not predicting anything, I'm simply providing an alternative framing that would explain the drama.

No.

If Woody Johnson actually felt this was his only serious shot at a Super Bowl, and was willing to sacrifice future seasons for it, then he’d have instructed his GM back in March to trade the team’s next couple first and second round draft picks for veteran starters this season. He’d have ordered him to extend Riddick back before the draft.

Failing to trade the next 2-3 seasons’ worth of day 1 and day 2 picks = not maximizing on this season.

It’s not happening. There is only evidence of the polar opposite thus far: they’re not taking on high-end contracts with guys in their 30s past this season because Woody may be cleaning house after the season.It’s decidedly unlikely Woody’s going to pressure Douglas to give Riddick a multi year extension at $25MM.

Riddick has played this terribly. His decision to hold out instead of hold in was pure foolishness, and in doing so he made an any potential negotiations twice as difficult by racking up several million in mandatory fines. His leverage is almost nonexistent where they stand right now. Nobody was willing to offer him what he thinks he’s worth; his demands are wholly unrealistic. Pretty much everyone among the Jets’ FO, coaching staff, and the fan base prefers he was with the team BUT no serious person believes a 3rd rounder - two seasons into the future - is nearly enough to pressure a football team into a long term contract he couldn’t get from anyone else.

Lmao that Reddick has been working game theory angles. Video game theory maybe, since that’s the only football he’s played thus far this season. 

[batman10023]

3 hours ago, Vader said:

it's a maxi-max strategy. If he reports, he loses all leverage on "a highest possible payoff among all of the possible outcomes", and he risks injury. I can't speak to why except to say looking at the situation, the Jets are in a one-year superbowl window. 

Disagree 100 percent.  
 

a hold in means he’s not playing so no injury risk. 
 

he has cost him so much money that it’s going to be hard for him to overcome that. 
 

 

[RevisIsland610]

30 minutes ago, Vader said:

it's very smart. the moment he reports he's playing on a prove it year and as result won't get paid with Sauce's money.  he could have reported a month ago or next week. the only thing keeping any deal alive is the holdout and the pressure on Woody.

Hassan Reddick doesn't care about the Jets or if he ever plays for the Jets. He's working game theory angles for his last big contract. It's likely they have known for a long time that Woody was not going to offer the contract. Philly didn't offer the contract. 

Hassan Reddick wants to get paid. Clowney matched a career high in sacks (9.5) after 30. Sitting out a year may or may not hurt Reddick on a contract tbh. He's coming off a pro bowl year (back to back) and prior was DPOY.

The Jets got him for a 2026 3rd rounder because teams aren't exactly lining up to sign him to numbers and term that he wants. Sitting out the year would be extremely foolish for an edge rusher that will be turning 31 early next season. He needs to stop living in fantasyland. 

[batman10023]

3 hours ago, Vader said:

The pressure target is Woody Johnson, not JD. And the play is a PR play. Once he reports he takes that play off the board. The "hold-out just to report" is a maximum pressure campaign on Woody Johnson, more than on JD. Woody Johnson goes down in infamy if the Jets let Reddick sit and they do not win the SuperBowl.

lol. I think woody isn’t going to think about reddick one bit in 2 years. 
 

if this is what his agent is telling him no wonder he’s got screwed. 

[batman10023]

2 hours ago, Vader said:

That's the gamble he is taking, and the odds are in vastly in his favor. The odds to win a superbowl are not good to begin with. However, right now it is not about winning the superbowl, it's about pressure surrounding the risk for Woody Johnson to try to win a superbowl without Reddick, when he very clearly can have Reddick.

This makes no sense in the sense that nobody knows about the Super Bowl now. 
 

we lose to 49ers and then win 4 games in a row.  Where is his leverage. 

[Matt39]

3 minutes ago, batman10023 said:

This makes no sense in the sense that nobody knows about the Super Bowl now. 
 

we lose to 49ers and then win 4 games in a row.  Where is his leverage. 

Both sides have lost leverage now that the season has started. The Jets are down a player and Reddick is down money. Lose/lose.

[Vader]

6 minutes ago, batman10023 said:

Disagree 100 percent.  
 

a hold in means he’s not playing so no injury risk. 
 

he has cost him so much money that it’s going to be hard for him to overcome that. 
 

 

so a hold-in means he reports and practices but doesn't play? if so it's the same effect as a hold out. He and his agent are attempting to negotiate his last big money contract. there's nothing to disagree with. he's playing hardball, it's a maxi max strategy using the hold out or in your case a hold in (?) to leverage the best possible outcome of all outcomes. He may have thought Woody would blink first. We'll see what happens through the first part of the season. It's risky for both Woody Johnson and Hassan Reddick. Riskier for Woody IMO.

The money he is losing will be easily recouped in a new contract.

[Vader]

5 minutes ago, batman10023 said:

This makes no sense in the sense that nobody knows about the Super Bowl now. 
 

we lose to 49ers and then win 4 games in a row.  Where is his leverage. 

What was the record of the loser in the AFCCG last year? What was the record of the loser of the Super Bowl? What you are talking about is irrelevant. It's about the big boy games at this point. Woody is going for a Super Bowl. Not 4-1.

[Vader]

11 minutes ago, batman10023 said:

lol. I think woody isn’t going to think about reddick one bit in 2 years. 
 

if this is what his agent is telling him no wonder he’s got screwed. 

there's a superbowl window now. in two years it's gone. from Reddick's agent's POV the question is do you want Hassan Reddick on this one year window Super Bowl run or not. Again I am not picking a side or saying it's right or wrong, I'm simply saying that this is the way to see Reddick's position as rational from a decision making science standpoint

[batman10023]

1 minute ago, Vader said:

so a hold-in means he reports and practices but doesn't play? if so it's the same effect as a hold out. He and his agent are attempting to negotiate his last big money contract. there's nothing to disagree with. he's playing hardball, it's a maxi max strategy using the hold out or in your case a hold in (?) to leverage the best possible outcome of all outcomes. He may have thought Woody would blink first. We'll see what happens through the first part of the season. It's risky for both Woody Johnson and Hassan Reddick. Riskier for Woody IMO.

The money he is losing will be easily recouped in a new contract.

That’s what a hold in does - plus it makes it easy to have a win win situation. 
 

holdout was horrible advice.  Most likely agent was working on lamb extension.  Didn’t worry about this. 
 

and no way he recoups the money in a new contract versus reporting on a sweetened one year deal and then free agency next year. 

[Vader]

15 minutes ago, RevisIsland610 said:

The Jets got him for a 2026 3rd rounder because teams aren't exactly lining up to sign him to numbers and term that he wants. Sitting out the year would be extremely foolish for an edge rusher that will be turning 31 early next season. He needs to stop living in fantasyland. 

100% agree but I don't blame him for playing big boy poker with Woody Johnson  

[Vader]

1 minute ago, batman10023 said:

That’s what a hold in does - plus it makes it easy to have a win win situation. 
 

holdout was horrible advice.  Most likely agent was working on lamb extension.  Didn’t worry about this. 
 

and no way he recoups the money in a new contract versus reporting on a sweetened one year deal and then free agency next year. 

who said Hassan Reddick wants a win-win situation? he wants Sauce Gardner's money.