What Cahsman cost the Yankees

[madmike1]

Randy Johnson is only having success because of weak NL lineups huh? He'd be old and done vs AL teams right?

Tonight vs the Red Sox (An AL Lineup) 6ip 4h 1er 3bb 9 k's

OK so you have an irrational hatred of Johnson? How about Trading him for some thing of value like Micah Owings?

Yesterday vs the Red Sox 6ip 7h 2er 2bb 4k

But instead because of Cashman's incompetence both those pitchers will be helping the Dbacks win their division while the 4 pieces of garbage the yankees got back will contribute nothing and hold no trade value. GREAT JOB!!!

[Barton]

ahem, didnt you say Clemens was going to the red sox this year?

Guess not eh? I told ya he was gonna sign with the Yankees but you dont see me starting a thread about it, do you?

BTW, Randy Johnson sucked for the Yankees. And there's not much evidence to say we could have had Owings for Johnson. Actually, I read recently the Dbacks were not gonna give us Owings, who we wanted. Maybe look into that alittle and call your sources in the papers.

[madmike1]

ahem, didnt you say Clemens was going to the red sox this year?

Guess not eh? I told ya he was gonna sign with the Yankees but you dont see me starting a thread about it, do you?

BTW, Randy Johnson sucked for the Yankees. And there's not much evidence to say we could have had Owings for Johnson. Actually, I read recently the Dbacks were not gonna give us Owings, who we wanted. Maybe look into that alittle and call your sources in the papers.

1 I said i didn't care if he went to boston. I never made a prediction.

2 Even if Owings wasn't available if the yankees threw in more money (which he was) Johnson is CLEARLY not done (Just like I said) and he's still an effective pitcher. So the yankees traded an effective pitcher for nothing.

[Bob]

Johnson basically stole money from the Yankees last year. Letting him go was the right thing to do.

Besides, using your argument in the Schilling thread, one game doesn't mean anything.

[madmike1]

Johnson basically stole money from the Yankees last year. Letting him go was the right thing to do.

Besides, using your argument in the Schilling thread, one game doesn't mean anything.

1 Johnson was a well above avg pitcher for the yankees last year. His high ERA as i've said before was a product of an abnormally high batting average of balls in play with men on. IE he pitched in bad luck. Anyone who looked at his peripherals would've been able to see that he pitched much better than the ERA indicated and he's proving that this year.

2 This isn't just one start. He's been great all year.

[Bob]

1 Johnson was a well above avg pitcher for the yankees last year. His high ERA as i've said before was a product of an abnormally high batting average of balls in play with men on. IE he pitched in bad luck. Anyone who looked at his peripherals would've been able to see that he pitched much better than the ERA indicated and he's proving that this year.

2 This isn't just one start. He's been great all year.

This is hilarious! It wasn't bad luck. He pitched with men on base BECAUSE HE PUT THEM THERE.

Sure. His "peripherals" prove he was better than he was. Yep. Sure.

[MasonJet]

1 Johnson was a well above avg pitcher for the yankees last year. His high ERA as i've said before was a product of an abnormally high batting average of balls in play with men on. IE he pitched in bad luck. Anyone who looked at his peripherals would've been able to see that he pitched much better than the ERA indicated and he's proving that this year.

2 This isn't just one start. He's been great all year.

First of all: LMAO at your first point. Not even sure how to respond that absurdity.

Second of all: who cares? He's not on the team anymore and crying about it isn't gonna make a difference.

[Bugg]

1 Johnson was a well above avg pitcher for the yankees last year. His high ERA as i've said before was a product of an abnormally high batting average of balls in play with men on. IE he pitched in bad luck. Anyone who looked at his peripherals would've been able to see that he pitched much better than the ERA indicated and he's proving that this year.

2 This isn't just one start. He's been great all year.

NO offense. Youwa tched his Yankee starts-5-6 innings of nibbling, no bite on his curve, a flat fastball. Soemtimes he got by, other times he got shelled. If wins aren't a big stat as you've told us, Johnson falling back on great Yank offense proves your point. The stats may agree with you in the sense that he was marginally above an average/replacement value starter. But the Yanks weren't paying him ($32 million over 2 years)to be average, but dominant. And simply in his 2 years here he was rarely if ever dominant. They wanted the guy who beat them in 1995 and in 2001, not some middling starter walking crappy hitters and nibbling on the zone. Which is all he ever was for 2 seasons.

[Bugg]

1 Johnson was a well above avg pitcher for the yankees last year. His high ERA as i've said before was a product of an abnormally high batting average of balls in play with men on. IE he pitched in bad luck. Anyone who looked at his peripherals would've been able to see that he pitched much better than the ERA indicated and he's proving that this year.

He's a starting pitcher. Who put those guys on base-someone else? That's not bad luck, it's him doing a lousy job.

[Matt39]

Randys gone- deal with it. He was a dissaspointment in NY and he also gave up a ton of home runs.

He's doing well back in Arizona wheres theres zero pressure on him. WIsh him the best of luck.

[Blackout]

umm, ill put it like this

randy johnson was not NY material mentally or physically

he was above average here in 04 and shawn chacon like in 05

[madmike1]

This is hilarious! It wasn't bad luck. He pitched with men on base BECAUSE HE PUT THEM THERE.

Sure. His "peripherals" prove he was better than he was. Yep. Sure.

See thats where you're wrong. He didn't allow a larger amount of base runners than normal. In fact his WHIP was good.

[madmike1]

NO offense. Youwa tched his Yankee starts-5-6 innings of nibbling, no bite on his curve, a flat fastball. Soemtimes he got by, other times he got shelled. If wins aren't a big stat as you've told us, Johnson falling back on great Yank offense proves your point. The stats may agree with you in the sense that he was marginally above an average/replacement value starter. But the Yanks weren't paying him ($32 million over 2 years)to be average, but dominant. And simply in his 2 years here he was rarely if ever dominant. They wanted the guy who beat them in 1995 and in 2001, not some middling starter walking crappy hitters and nibbling on the zone. Which is all he ever was for 2 seasons.

You have a point in that because randy wasn't as dominant as he was from 95-01 that people tended to ignore the fact that he was a well above average starter. If his name was John Smith and not randy johnson people would've been outraged at this trade. Even if Johnson wasn't the same guy he was in the 95-01 period (and i'm not saying that he was) he was still worth MUCH MORE than what they got for him.

[anskyruben]

Just curious if anyone bothers to look at Johnson's ERA ? Look at his ERA when he was with NY. The only reason he won as many games as he did, was that he was getting more run support than Andy will ever get. He was a waste of money for us , ans I'm happy he isn't in pinstripes anymore. I doubt he would be helping us. He had a hard time pitching in Yankee pinstripes.

[ECURB]

He was a pain in the ass old man with back problems... and could never handle the NY pressure...

Glad he is gone.

[madmike1]

Just curious if anyone bothers to look at Johnson's ERA ? Look at his ERA when he was with NY. The only reason he won as many games as he did, was that he was getting more run support than Andy will ever get. He was a waste of money for us , ans I'm happy he isn't in pinstripes anymore. I doubt he would be helping us. He had a hard time pitching in Yankee pinstripes.

The point is that he wasn't as bad as his ERA says he was. And he's proving that he's far from done.

[anskyruben]

How can you be "not as bad as your ERA reflects"? I can see that being the case with wins and loses....but with ERA ? If you are giving up 5 runs a game, you are not a good pitcher. You may be 20-10, but that just means your team scored a ton of runs everytime you pitched. Maybe because thety knew you couldn't keep them in the game otherwise.

[madmike1]

How can you be "not as bad as your ERA reflects"? I can see that being the case with wins and loses....but with ERA ? If you are giving up 5 runs a game, you are not a good pitcher. You may be 20-10, but that just means your team scored a ton of runs everytime you pitched. Maybe because thety knew you couldn't keep them in the game otherwise.

Because luck is a factor in baseball. Judging by his peripherals such as BAA, K9, BBK, H/IP and so on it's pretty clear that he pitched better than a 5 or so ERA.

[Lurker]

his name is Brian Cashman.

[anskyruben]

Because luck is a factor in baseball. Judging by his peripherals such as BAA, K9, BBK, H/IP and so on it's pretty clear that he pitched better than a 5 or so ERA.

But his ERA tells us he DIDN'T. Case closed. The numbers are there for a reason.

[madmike1]

But his ERA tells us he DIDN'T. Case closed. The numbers are there for a reason.

Those peripherals are much better predictors of future performance than ERA is. And thats what should be considered when trying to trade or not trade a player.

[Barton]

Those peripherals are much better predictors of future performance than ERA is.

That may be true, but not when the season is all over with and said pitcher has a 5 era.

Peripherals are a good predictor of future peformance for the rest of a season if its for example, June or July and you're predicting how he'll pitch the rest of the year based on peripherals (which I do agree with you on schilling for instance), but once the season is done and said pitcher has a frickin 5 era - he just plain ol' sucks. All you had to do was watch Randy pitch last year, he was horrible and peripherals didnt mean sh^t. And its not like he's a young kid where you can say he'll become a much better pitcher in future season over time because his whip, bb/k etc etc are all well above average; Randy is an old goat. Also, peripherals are something to look at, but its not the end all be all, just look at Chien Ming Wang.

Randy threw quite a few good games last year I remember, the problem is then he'd throw 8 sh#tty ones.

Also, if we would have kept him - we dont have the money for Clemens nor the ego room in the clubhouse, where Randy was a bad fit the past 2 years.

[MasonJet]

Because luck is a factor in baseball. Judging by his peripherals such as BAA, K9, BBK, H/IP and so on it's pretty clear that he pitched better than a 5 or so ERA.

And the amount of runs you give up per game is far more important than any of those categories you just mentioned.

[madmike1]

And the amount of runs you give up per game is far more important than any of those categories you just mentioned.

Not as a predictor of future performance.

[MasonJet]

Not as a predictor of future performance.

What the Yankees could predict is that the Unit could not live up to the pressure of pitching for the Yankees and is much better off in Arizona. Good for him that he's doing well for the D-Backs but he stunk it up for the Yankees.

And like I said, whining about it isn't gonna change the fact that he's not on the team anymore anyway.

[madmike1]

What the Yankees could predict is that the Unit could not live up to the pressure of pitching for the Yankees and is much better off in Arizona. Good for him that he's doing well for the D-Backs but he stunk it up for the Yankees.

And like I said, whining about it isn't gonna change the fact that he's not on the team anymore anyway.

I'm glad you're happy that the yankees gave up a valuable pitcher for nothing.

[AFJF]

What the Yankees could predict is that the Unit could not live up to the pressure of pitching for the Yankees and is much better off in Arizona. Good for him that he's doing well for the D-Backs but he stunk it up for the Yankees.

And like I said, whining about it isn't gonna change the fact that he's not on the team anymore anyway.

Ed Whitson = Doyle Alexander = Terry Mulholland = Randy Johnson

[Scott Dierking]

Not as a predictor of future performance.

You are the Marty McFly of this board.

[Thor99]

1 Johnson was a well above avg pitcher for the yankees last year. His high ERA as i've said before was a product of an abnormally high batting average of balls in play with men on. IE he pitched in bad luck. Anyone who looked at his peripherals would've been able to see that he pitched much better than the ERA indicated and he's proving that this year.

So he's the Anti-Wang?

[Bugg]

I'm glad you're happy that the yankees gave up a valuable pitcher for nothing.

They did get the salary relief of not paying top dollar for a pitcher you even concede was little better than slightly above replacement value.

[CrazyCarl40]

I figured this thread was about the billion plus dollars and no rings in the last so many years.

[shawn306]

Johnson killed the Yankees when he played against them and he killed them when he played for them.

[Barton]

I figured this thread was about the billion plus dollars and no rings in the last so many years.

red sox fan: sshhh

[MasonJet]

I'm glad you're happy that the yankees gave up a valuable pitcher for nothing.

He was a 43-year old pitcher coming off 2 crappy seasons. The fact that we got anything for him makes me happy.

[madmike1]

He was a 43-year old pitcher coming off 2 crappy seasons. The fact that we got anything for him makes me happy.

He's gonna win 15+ games this year with a mid 3's ERA, 12k9 and help the dbacks win their division and people like you are still gonna defend this trade because you don't like randy for whatever reason. Amazing.