To be honest we had a chance to draft

[rick34125]

How much better would this defense be with Jon Vilma not being taken out of every single play?

How would you rate it. Top 15. Top 10. Top 5.

[serphnx]

We run a 3-4 defense without a NT. That's all you need to know.

So does Cleveland and San Franciso. We aren't the only team with hard headed coaches that haven't filled a basic need.

[GM]

Start Clemens, switch to the 4-3, trade Vilma, and bench D'Brick....

According to the naysayers, that will make us 16-0;)

[The Troll]

Start Clemens, switch to the 4-3, trade Vilma, and bench D'Brick....

According to the naysayers, that will make us 16-0;)

Why would we switch to the 4-3 and then trade Vilma? Trade Vilma if Mangini insists on sticking to the 3-4, but he better get the damn thing to work.

[snow_monkey]

Wow. Some of you guys actually think VY will be a HoF'er? Sure, he can be fun to watch, but he's not among the top QB's in the league. I've seen him play, I've seen the numbers he puts up...but I still havn't seen his "greatness".

He's still young, so he can develop and grow. But he's also not the sharpest tool in the shed so he might just end up like Vick did and not develop at all (I'm talking about his playing only; not his crimes). I'd say he'll be like McNair. A good, but not great, QB that can both run and pass.

[#27TheDominator]

If the Jets had a NT that could occupy 2 lineman how much better do you think the defense would be?

Why does every body think it's so easy to find an NT that is so good that he can absorb two and even three offensive linemen? Offensive linemen get paid too, if they were all be taken out two at a time by every 350 lb slob NT in the league Pete Kendall would have gotten paid pronto.

It's like saying what if Custer had a Sherman tank?

[Sperm Edwards]

You know who else we had a chance to draft?

Since back then, this is who I wanted. Left tackles come out every year. There were a bunch of suck prospects in that same draft. In time, D'Brick may actually still prove to be better than all of them. But teams get by with so-so ones that at least keep their QB upright even if they're not great.

But you don't pass on one of these monsters as you're installing a 3-4 defense. For this scheme, it is the rarest type of (necessary) talent to find in all of football.

[Boozer76]

Our real Franchise QB 2 years ago

Vince Young will be a HOF QB and he is fun to watch to boot

I know he was a High risk/reward selection, and many on this board complained about his throwing motion... this kid can play ball and to be honest we blew it. Trading up was the only option for us, going from 4 to 3

should have been a slam dunk..

Oh well we did get a brick or a rock or whatever you call it.

Here's the problem with your theory-one is the Titans were targeting him, so there's no way we would be ablee to trade with them. NO was never going to trade out of the #2 spot with Bush on the board. And even if they did, it would have likely cost us at least as much as it cost the Giants to get Eli, probably even more. Given how high the risk/reward was on him, it was never going to happen. Playing monday morning QB is real easy.

[afosomf]

Here's the problem with your theory-one is the Titans were targeting him, so there's no way we would be ablee to trade with them. NO was never going to trade out of the #2 spot with Bush on the board. And even if they did, it would have likely cost us at least as much as it cost the Giants to get Eli, probably even more. Given how high the risk/reward was on him, it was never going to happen. Playing monday morning QB is real easy.

and what did we get a brick?? like charly brown getting his rocks for halloween.

Sometimes you have to have balls and take a chance with a high risk/reward

player. Maybe they were gunshy after Dslob trade up

a butcher with a bowling ball

[DMaynard]

and what did we get a brick?? like charly brown getting his rocks for halloween.

Sometimes you have to have balls and take a chance with a high risk/reward

player. Maybe they were gunshy after Dslob trade up

a butcher with a bowling ball

Playing the "in hindsight we should have drafted ... game" is one thing. Assuming we could have found a willing trade partner at a workable trade price at the top of the draft assumes an awful lot.

[Boozer76]

and what did we get a brick?? like charly brown getting his rocks for halloween.

Sometimes you have to have balls and take a chance with a high risk/reward

player. Maybe they were gunshy after Dslob trade up

a butcher with a bowling ball

No, we got a Brick, Mangold, Revis, and Harris. That's about what it would have cost with Buah atill on the board.

[#27TheDominator]

Since back then, this is who I wanted. Left tackles come out every year. There were a bunch of suck prospects in that same draft. In time, D'Brick may actually still prove to be better than all of them. But teams get by with so-so ones that at least keep their QB upright even if they're not great.

But you don't pass on one of these monsters as you're installing a 3-4 defense. For this scheme, it is the rarest type of (necessary) talent to find in all of football.

I know you liked Ngata coming out. Honest question, do you honestly think if he were here that these people would not be crucifying him as well? I'm not sure he'd have been the king two gapper we hoped for. Far as I can tell, Gregg is the "zero" gap guy on that team lining up over center. Ngata isn't even the NT on his own team. They play a hybrid D, like the Jets should. There is a big difference succeeding with Ray Lewis, Ed Reed, Adalius Thomas, Terrell Suggs, Chris McAllister, than Kerry Rhodes, Jonathan Vilma and Bryan Thomas.

Statistically, Ngata was way worse than DRob last year. I'm not saying that is what matters, particularly for a 2 gap lineman, but if he were here people would be saying that he only had two tackles a game and DRob doubled his output.

We clearly needed a tackle, but based on the draft chart trading down from #4 to where Ngata got picked would have yielded a pick at the very end of the first/start of the second. That might have gotten us Addai, Demeco Ryans or Winston Justice. However, IMO if they had a pick around 10 they would have been jumping on Cutler, not Ngata and if they were going to deal for a qb it would have been for Cutler NOT Young.

[bitonti]

vince young was picked at 3

the jets picked at 4

how is that 'having the chance to draft' VY?

I guess the Jets had a chance at drafting Ladanian tomlinson too all they had to do was trade up

[DMaynard]

vince young was picked at 3

the jets picked at 4

how is that 'having the chance to draft' VY?

I guess the Jets had a chance at drafting Ladanian tomlinson too all they had to do was trade up

Exactly

[Sperm Edwards]

I know you liked Ngata coming out. Honest question, do you honestly think if he were here that these people would not be crucifying him as well? I'm not sure he'd have been the king two gapper we hoped for. Far as I can tell, Gregg is the "zero" gap guy on that team lining up over center. Ngata isn't even the NT on his own team. They play a hybrid D, like the Jets should. There is a big difference succeeding with Ray Lewis, Ed Reed, Adalius Thomas, Terrell Suggs, Chris McAllister, than Kerry Rhodes, Jonathan Vilma and Bryan Thomas.

Statistically, Ngata was way worse than DRob last year. I'm not saying that is what matters, particularly for a 2 gap lineman, but if he were here people would be saying that he only had two tackles a game and DRob doubled his output.

We clearly needed a tackle, but based on the draft chart trading down from #4 to where Ngata got picked would have yielded a pick at the very end of the first/start of the second. That might have gotten us Addai, Demeco Ryans or Winston Justice. However, IMO if they had a pick around 10 they would have been jumping on Cutler, not Ngata and if they were going to deal for a qb it would have been for Cutler NOT Young.

Trading down was my desire above all. But when the draft is that stacked like it was in 2006, it's tough to find partners to trade down with; particularly from the #4 spot that would require so much compensation.

Regarding Baltimore, the fact that they are successful switching assignments based on this or that play doesn't mean Ngata is not a NT b/c he lines up at 1/2 a lot. What it may mean is they are fortunate enough to not NEED to line him up at 0 on every play. He's 340 lbs & if he wanted to fatten up to 375+ like Ted Washington he could, but it's hardly necessary.

Sadly I do agree on what would be the rumblings here every time Matt Leinart threw a TD pass & Ngata - even in a solid game - statistically ended up with only 1 tackle.

I sure hope a legit nose surfaces b/c Mangini seems hell-bent on using the 3-4 as our base scheme.

[awats]

Good call, we can have VY, no mangold, and probably no Leon, clemens, and/or brad smith.

our defense sucks, our o-line would be an absolute wreck, but we would have a QB who seems pretty good so far. Give me a f()ckin break. We need so much more than a damn QB. Until this guy walks on water we should have done exactly what we did or trade DOWN to amass more picks to fill our weak (at best) roster of nobodies.

Hear Hear!

[GM]

Why would we switch to the 4-3 and then trade Vilma? Trade Vilma if Mangini insists on sticking to the 3-4, but he better get the damn thing to work.

I am just regurgitating what I am being force fed.

[drago]

I know you liked Ngata coming out. Honest question, do you honestly think if he were here that these people would not be crucifying him as well? I'm not sure he'd have been the king two gapper we hoped for. Far as I can tell, Gregg is the "zero" gap guy on that team lining up over center. Ngata isn't even the NT on his own team. They play a hybrid D, like the Jets should. There is a big difference succeeding with Ray Lewis, Ed Reed, Adalius Thomas, Terrell Suggs, Chris McAllister, than Kerry Rhodes, Jonathan Vilma and Bryan Thomas.

Statistically, Ngata was way worse than DRob last year. I'm not saying that is what matters, particularly for a 2 gap lineman, but if he were here people would be saying that he only had two tackles a game and DRob doubled his output.

We clearly needed a tackle, but based on the draft chart trading down from #4 to where Ngata got picked would have yielded a pick at the very end of the first/start of the second. That might have gotten us Addai, Demeco Ryans or Winston Justice. However, IMO if they had a pick around 10 they would have been jumping on Cutler, not Ngata and if they were going to deal for a qb it would have been for Cutler NOT Young.

Good post.

Those draft charts are total Bull chit. We needed to trade down, we could have grabbed brick if we traded with a team like St. Louis/Balt/Seattle who already have a LT and we could have still gotten brick at anywhere between 5 and 10 (more than likely). Even if we missed on Brick, like you said, winston Justice, eric winston, and McNeil were all there late.

My point on the draft charts being a load of crap is that we could have gotten any number of pick in return and it would have been worth it in the 2006 draft. As sperm said, that draft was loaded with talent, so tradeing our 4 for a number 8, or so, and getting a mid second in return and maybe a 7th would have been plenty.

If it was last years draft, then we would have needed another first, or a very early second. Too many GM's take that stupid chart as gosspil, and are unwilling to take the media ribbing. Screw the media! get value! We had a chance to have the best draft in jets history, hell we still may have anyway, but we could have walked away with two more high caliber picks.

[JetsMan57]

The Jets have a good starting QB, and a young back up who has very good potential. I think we are fine at QB.

Its the defense, we need to play some darn defense.

[afosomf]

vince young was picked at 3

the jets picked at 4

how is that 'having the chance to draft' VY?

I guess the Jets had a chance at drafting Ladanian tomlinson too all they had to do was trade up

give me a f'n break moving from 4 to 3 or 4 to 2 would not have broken bank.

this is why jets are always climbing up hill

i also blame the nimwit herm coach for winning that meaningless 4th game vs

william and mary;)

[drago]

give me a f'n break moving from 4 to 3 or 4 to 2 would not have broken bank.

this is why jets are always climbing up hill

i also blame the nimwit herm coach for winning that meaningless 4th game vs

william and mary;)

yeah you're right, it wouldn't cost that much, only our second first round pick...nick mangold...i'm sure we'd be better off with you holding the reigns of our team.

keep thinking, it seems to come natural.

[DMaynard]

give me a f'n break moving from 4 to 3 or 4 to 2 would not have broken bank.

How do you know if NO or Tenn would have been willing to trade? Or if they were, what they were expecting in return? It was a very strong draft. I can't recall anyone trading down who had a top ten pick.

[afosomf]

yeah you're right, it wouldn't cost that much, only our second first round pick...nick mangold...i'm sure we'd be better off with you holding the reigns of our team.

keep thinking, it seems to come natural.

helloooooooooooooooooooooo

to get a franchise QB, Nick Mangold is certainly worth giving up

give me a f'n break, this may be dumbest statement....never mind

VY is a superstar and will go to HOF and he will win a SB, barring injury. He is that good. He just wins F'n games and will sacrifice stats for good of team.

also His WR's are pure crap on a stick, give him randy moss, welker, stallworth, ben watson and let's see what his stats will look like!!!!!

[drago]

helloooooooooooooooooooooo

to get a franchise QB, Nick Mangold is certainly worth giving up

give me a f'n break, this may be dumbest statement....never mind

VY is a superstar and will go to HOF and he will win a SB, barring injury. He is that good. He just wins F'n games and will sacrifice stats for good of team.

also His WR's are pure crap on a stick, give him randy moss, welker, stallworth, ben watson and let's see what his stats will look like!!!!!

he beat the saints, he has beaten some of the weakest teams in the league. THe only good teams they ever beat were because they were able to run the ball.

afosomf's projected 2007 NEW YORK JETS OFFENSE

Cotch- Adrian Jones, Clarke, Wade Smith, Moore, Clement, baker, -coles

Vince Young

jones

yeah, we should be able to run, and have time in the pocket. you keep thinkin though. I'm sure young is already accumulating votes for the HOF.

[Sperm Edwards]

Moving up from #4 to #2 would have cost us both our first rounders and both our 4th rounders.

Without knowing which players are going to be stars/busts/in-between, it would have amounted to:

Vince Young

or

D'Brick

Mangold

Brad Smith

Leon

For a player with enormous bust-potential, not the least of which due to him playing QB and scored almost a record-low on his intelligence test. Few good FO's would make that move; particularly on a team with a ton of holes to fill.

[afosomf]

Moving up from #4 to #2 would have cost us both our first rounders and both our 4th rounders.

Without knowing which players are going to be stars/busts/in-between, it would have amounted to:

Vince Young

or

D'Brick

Mangold

Brad Smith

Leon

For a player with enormous bust-potential, not the least of which due to him playing QB and scored almost a record-low on his intelligence test. Few good FO's would make that move; particularly on a team with a ton of holes to fill.

Sold!!!!!

D'brick looks to be just an average tackle

Mangold is solid but decent centers can be had in 3rd or 4th rd

brad smith is a good player but expendable in this trade

Leon rbs is easist to fill via FA or draft

VY=PM=TB he is ahead of both PM and Cindy at this stage in his career.

when VY gets a decent supporting cast, watch out!!!!!!!!

He already has beaten Indy and almost did it this year 2.

[uart]

What makes you think VY is HOF caliber ?

You don't need a HOF QB to win the Super Bowl.

[Sperm Edwards]

I think you missed the point. The point is you can't predict studs & busts with 100% accuracy. Young had potential bust written all over him. As much as Leinart had "zero-bust-potential" written all over him.

But if you're only going to look in hindsight, why not go over every HOF player we passed on - players far better than Young will ever be - and start threads on them as well.

Because to date, you're not able to point to the Titans winning b/c of Young much more than you're able to point to them winning b/c of Mawae. There are enough games that they won despite his massive ineptitude to make this "he just wins" stuff as much coincidence as anything else.

This game on Monday night - they won because of Vince Young? Don't make me laugh. 5 turnovers committed in the first 57 minutes of the game, against a team that absolutely can neither move the football this year nor stop ANYONE from moving the ball, and the great Vince Young led his team to exactly 10 more points than them? This was a game where the Titans could have put up 40+ points of offense. They didn't even put up 25.

I don't think Young is some talentless nothing, but he is looking nowhere near like a HOF QB.

[CoachTsurfing]

It's so hard to predict which guy will be good and which won't. But, I agree. Everyone knows we've been needing a strong armed, mobile, accurate, smart QB. We've had plenty of chances to pick one and I hope we see what Kellen has so if he aint it we move one and take the guy from Kentucky.

[SoFlaJets]

I don't think Young is some talentless nothing, but he is looking nowhere near like a HOF QB.

I like Vince Young and I think he is all class on and off the field but to put him in the same category as say a HoFer like Warren Moon is preposterous-

oh yea I agree with SE...

[afosomf]

I think you missed the point. The point is you can't predict studs & busts with 100% accuracy. Young had potential bust written all over him. As much as Leinart had "zero-bust-potential" written all over him.

But if you're only going to look in hindsight, why not go over every HOF player we passed on - players far better than Young will ever be - and start threads on them as well.

Because to date, you're not able to point to the Titans winning b/c of Young much more than you're able to point to them winning b/c of Mawae. There are enough games that they won despite his massive ineptitude to make this "he just wins" stuff as much coincidence as anything else.

This game on Monday night - they won because of Vince Young? Don't make me laugh. 5 turnovers committed in the first 57 minutes of the game, against a team that absolutely can neither move the football this year nor stop ANYONE from moving the ball, and the great Vince Young led his team to exactly 10 more points than them? This was a game where the Titans could have put up 40+ points of offense. They didn't even put up 25.

I don't think Young is some talentless nothing, but he is looking nowhere near like a HOF QB.

Sometimes a team has to take a chance on a player, the t!ts did and they

are happy they did.

All VY does is win games, he took a team with 1/2 the talent of colts and almost beat them this year, beat them last year and please don't give me this mawae is God answer. VY is a leader, has a gun, got great wheels and he will put t!ts on his back and they will contend for wildcard and as i said

i believe they will attain.

Tell me agan how PM looked his 1st 2 years!

[mangenious420]

Sold!!!!!

D'brick looks to be just an average tackle

Mangold is solid but decent centers can be had in 3rd or 4th rd

brad smith is a good player but expendable in this trade

Leon rbs is easist to fill via FA or draft

VY=PM=TB he is ahead of both PM and Cindy at this stage in his career.

when VY gets a decent supporting cast, watch out!!!!!!!!

He already has beaten Indy and almost did it this year 2.

Do you have any idea what your talking about?

[#27TheDominator]

Tell me agan how PM looked his 1st 2 years!

A hell of a lot better than Vince Young. His rookie year they only went 3-13, but maybe you should check the stats because he threw for nearly double the yards of Vince Young. His second year they were 13-3 and I'll be surprised if Vince Young EVER has a season that good.

[afosomf]

Do you have any idea what your talking about?

You should go make a pass at mangold's sister!!

when t!ts are in playoffs and while jests are home watching them on Tv.. please feel free to give me a call

[DMaynard]

Sold!!!!!

D'brick looks to be just an average tackle

Mangold is solid but decent centers can be had in 3rd or 4th rd

brad smith is a good player but expendable in this trade

Leon rbs is easist to fill via FA or draft

VY=PM=TB he is ahead of both PM and Cindy at this stage in his career.

when VY gets a decent supporting cast, watch out!!!!!!!!

He already has beaten Indy and almost did it this year 2.

Stop beating yourself to death on what ifs. There is a simple solution that will give you exactly what you want. At no cost.

Become a Titans fan.