Jets to take on Bills without star LB Vilma

[JetNation]

New York Jets linebacker Jonathan Vilma will miss Sunday's game against Buffalo with a knee injury. </img>

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[drago]

New York Jets linebacker Jonathan Vilma will miss Sunday's game against Buffalo with a knee injury. </img>

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[PeterNorth09]

And to think we could have gotten a late 1st round pick for Vilma before the season began. Now we'll be lucky to get a 3rd rounder.

[Boozer76]

Given the fact that we employ a 3-4 that Vilma looks atrocious in, this is unfortunately good news.

[Irish Jet]

And to think we could have gotten a late 1st round pick for Vilma before the season began. Now we'll be lucky to get a 3rd rounder.

I bet we still get an early 2nd/late 1st for him!!!!

You'd be surpised just how overated he is around the league!!!!!!!

[ECURB]

And to think we could have gotten a late 1st round pick for Vilma before the season began. Now we'll be lucky to get a 3rd rounder.

If his value drops low enough... then it becomes a question of whether its even worth trading him...

[SoFlaJets]

that's one over-rated prima donna down one to go

[JetCane]

Now he's a "prima donna"?

This board keeps getting dumber and dumber.

[Irish Jet]

Now he's a "prima donna"?

This board keeps getting dumber and dumber.

Seriously dude you have to take a chill pill about this Vilma stuff, fact of the matter is, he cannot play in a 3-4 D. He was a good LB, nothing more in a 4-3.

Yesterday you gave me neg rep for criticising Vilma, do you ever occasionally actually watch him?????

He gets destroyed when hit by a guard, absolutely destroyed!!!!!

I dont like to see him injured but I think our D can improve with him gone

[JetCane]

Seriously, some of you just like talking out of your azz when you post.

Would you like to explain to me why he is a prima donna? It must be because of all the games he's missed since he became a Jet. or the number of plays he wasnt on the field last season during the first year of the 3-4 (zero).

or how he constantly has publicly complained about having to play a scheme he doesnt fit into.

I know all about who is doing well and not doing well in the 3-4, and i have a pretty good idea why that is. Thanks for your input, though.

And the most overrated guy on the jets sideline is mangina.

[Irish Jet]

Seriously, some of you just like talking out of your azz when you post.

Would you like to explain to me why he is a prima donna? It must be because of all the games he's missed since he became a Jet. or the number of plays he wasnt on the field last season during the first year of the 3-4 (zero).

or how he constantly has publicly complained about having to play a scheme he doesnt fit into.

I know all about who is doing well and not doing well in the 3-4, and i have a pretty good idea why that is. Thanks for your input, though.

And the most overrated guy on the jets sideline is mangina.

I'm not questioning his effort, never have, doubt I ever will. He is a very hard worker, no doubt.

Unfortunately he is not built to be a 3-4 LB, in fact he's barely built to be a 4-3 LB. Everyone questioned his size coming out of college. Rightfully so it would seem.

[JetCane]

So my comment about the post that referred to him as a prima donna being a dumb post was accurate.

And if you dont like negative rep, stop being an obnoxious post whore.

[Irish Jet]

So my comment about the post that referred to him as a prima donna being a dumb post was accurate.

And if you dont like negative rep, stop being an obnoxious post whore.

Seriously dude WTF???

And give me a proper explanation this time!!!!!!!

[Boozer76]

Seriously dude WTF???

And give me a proper explanation this time!!!!!!!

Jetcane is an awesome guy. He and I are fellow Deadheads. He is just a bit closer to the UM alum than most others since he himself is a UM alum. It's understandable.

[Bugg]

The Jets have played 4-man fronts on somewhere between 35 and 50% of their defensive snaps each game. But the idea that Vilma would somehow morph into a superstar if one of his LB cohorts lined up in a 3-point stance in front of him rather than 2-point next to him persists. I'd grant you that the Jets' DL play leaves a lot to be desired. But it doens't explain why Vilma gets obliterated regularly by smaller backs and fatass guards, and why he cannot seem to slide off or avoid such blocks, or why he seems to make most of his tackles 8 yard upfield with a back dragging him several additional yards. Repeat after me-it's not scheme, it's size, strength, speed and talent.

[JetCane]

It's the scheme.

And the DC.

And no NT.

No DL who can pass rush.

An invisible BT.

An old Barton.

An undersized DL.

Poor tackling by some DBs.

Too much switching up and not allowing the defense to get comfortable.

It's definitely the scheme, too.

[GandWFan]

He is a soft undersized, overrated JAG LB, who made the pro-bowl AS AN ALTERNATE the year his defense was ranked 28th against the run. in a 4-3 defense.

But because he is a UM alum, and was able to tear up the college rank, where most are smaller, slower and much less talented than the pros, he walks on water.

Come on... Get over it. Vilma is a JAG

[serphnx]

It's the scheme.

And the DC.

And no NT.

No DL who can pass rush.

An invisible BT.

An old Barton.

An undersized DL.

Poor tackling by some DBs.

Too much switching up and not allowing the defense to get comfortable.

It's definitely the scheme, too.

You don't scheme suck. A better scheme won't make Vilma bigger.

This is why you don't take players that are too small and somehow hope they break the mold. I don't understand why we got Brick either, an average LT isn't THAT hard to draft. When you are picking in the top 10 you really need to get someone with the size and ability to become a stud at their position. Why didn't we grab Ed Reed instead? Most of our problems can be traced to taking players with limited physical ability. That really describes this team perfectly. Chad, DRob, Vilma, Brick, Leon Washington and even to an extent Coles are all really small guys. For Coles it isn't as big a deal because he's a WR and he plays physically, but for these other guys? A QB needs the arm to make the throws, and guys that spend most of their time in the trenches really need to be able to power through people when necessary.

None of these guys are what you can build a team around. They can all be very good complimentary players to your actual superstar players, but they are all treated and looked at as the franchise players. The Patriots model would not work without Brady, Wilfork, and a host of basically really big guys. And this "Mangini" type player model is so dumb, BB doesn't really care he just pretends it's important. Randy Moss and Rodney Harrison can't possibly be considered "Mangini" players but they certainly seem to be welcomed on BB's team.

[The Big Green Douche]

It's the scheme.

And the DC.

And no NT.

No DL who can pass rush.

An invisible BT.

An old Barton.

An undersized DL.

Poor tackling by some DBs.

Too much switching up and not allowing the defense to get comfortable.

It's definitely the scheme, too.

Couldnt agree with you more JC, to blame JV is absurd. His talent and abilities have nothing to do with whats happening. Each DL is being completely obliterated on the LOS by single blockers. No Jet DL commands even a double team. The D sucks not because of Vilma, but because of the lousy play of the DL.

By the way, Ray Lewis struggled greatly after the Ravens went to the 3-4 after Lewis left as DC. It takes time and consistent DL play for a 3-4 to be successful.

[Maxman]

Couldnt agree with you more JC, to blame JV is absurd. His talent and abilities have nothing to do with whats happening. Each DL is being completely obliterated on the LOS by single blockers. No Jet DL commands even a double team. The D sucks not because of Vilma, but because of the lousy play of the DL.

By the way, Ray Lewis struggled greatly after the Ravens went to the 3-4 after Lewis left as DC. It takes time and consistent DL play for a 3-4 to be successful.

This makes NO sense. On the one hand you said the the Jets DL is consistently blown off the LOS. Then in the next sentence you say they have to be consistent.

They are consistently bad. Some of you guys just ask too much of them I swear.

[Thai Jet]

He is a soft undersized, overrated JAG LB, who made the pro-bowl AS AN ALTERNATE the year his defense was ranked 28th against the run. in a 4-3 defense.

But because he is a UM alum, and was able to tear up the college rank, where most are smaller, slower and much less talented than the pros, he walks on water.

Come on... Get over it. Vilma is a JAG

With him right now in the 3/4 it's tough to argue with your post, as much as I'd like to.

[JetCane]

With him right now in the 3/4 it's tough to argue with your post, as much as I'd like to.

Oh year, he's a JAG in a 3-4 alright, a 3-4 with no real NT, an overmatched DC, no pass rushing DE, and an old Barton and an invisible BT. No argument there.

In the 4-3 he was DROTY one year, and a pro-bowl alternate the second year. That doesnt qualify as a JAG in my book.

The jets were idiots to not trade him last off-season. it is obvious he doesnt fit in the 3-4. No argument there, either.

But we have idiots running this team. No argument there, either.

[Kentucky Jet]

VILMA needs to play the 3-4 behind a bigger NT that can keep him on his feet and untouched. Then we shall see the real VILMA! Ray Lewis suffered when his boadfyguards retired or left the team. Ngata has revived his game. MANGREENI has had ample time to acquire a real, physical, prototype NT and has failed to do so! It is a bit unrealistic to complain about VILMA when he gets hit by bigger men on nrearly every play. His speed is negated because he has two widebodies hitting him. We will see how HARRIS fares when he is hit on every running play by two big bodies. I hope he does well but IMO no man can withstand that onslaught for long! Get VILMA the players needed to play the 3-4 properly and then re-evaluate!

[GandWFan]

In the 4-3 he was DROTY one year, and a pro-bowl alternate the second year. That doesnt qualify as a JAG in my book.

Well then your book needs a re-write.

In 2005 the Jets played the 4-3. Vilma lead the league in tackles.

He lead a defense that was 28th in points (27.4), 28th in yds (377.7), 26th in pass yds (239.7), and 28th in rush yds (138.0). http://www.nfl.com/teams/statistics?season=2005&team=NYJ&seasonType=

So let's put our critical analysis caps on here.

Lead the league in tackles + 28th in rush defense = lead the league in tackles 8 yards deep. In a 4-3.

Oh, but it's D-Robs fault, or it's Fergusons fault for leaving. BS. When Jason Ferguson was here, everyone was calling for his head.

If Vilma was the star you seem to think he is, he would have raised the play of those around him, not expect others to pick him up.

He is a superstar in the college ranks. He is a stud.

In the NFL, he is a JAG. In the NFL, big tough and strong are more important in the middle than fast.

But please list other UM alumni to prove that JV is a star. That makes sense to me.

[GandWFan]

VILMA needs to play the 3-4 behind a bigger NT that can keep him on his feet and untouched. Then we shall see the real VILMA! Ray Lewis suffered when his boadfyguards retired or left the team. Ngata has revived his game. MANGREENI has had ample time to acquire a real, physical, prototype NT and has failed to do so! It is a bit unrealistic to complain about VILMA when he gets hit by bigger men on nrearly every play. His speed is negated because he has two widebodies hitting him. We will see how HARRIS fares when he is hit on every running play by two big bodies. I hope he does well but IMO no man can withstand that onslaught for long! Get VILMA the players needed to play the 3-4 properly and then re-evaluate!

Wrong, send Vilma to any team that will give us a bag of balls to take him, and get a real linebacker. You know, a big tough ballsy player that will own the middle of the field. A Penn State type linebacker.

[JetCane]

Let's see who hasnt played like a JAG on the defense this year:

Ellis: D a true Jag

Kenyon: C+ decent against the rush

D-Rob: D horrible

Barton C- old and in the way

Hobson C+ how many sacks does he have- thats where the sacks should come from in a 3-4

Dyson D horrible tackler, played a big part in the loss to the giants

Barrett: C a 10 yard cushion every play

E. Smith: D cant stay healthy, and blew the tackle vs the iggles

E. Coleman: C- another JAG

Rhodes: has underperformed this season

Revis: has done well for a rookie CB

Sutton: D- should be updating his resume.

This defense sux, and they are poorly coached too.

[GandWFan]

Let's see who hasnt played like a JAG on the defense this year:

Ellis: D a true Jag

Kenyon: C+ decent against the rush

D-Rob: D horrible

Barton C- old and in the way

Hobson C+ how many sacks does he have- thats where the sacks should come from in a 3-4

Dyson D horrible tackler, played a big part in the loss to the giants

Barrett: C a 10 yard cushion every play

E. Smith: D cant stay healthy, and blew the tackle vs the iggles

E. Coleman: C- another JAG

Rhodes: has underperformed this season

Revis: has done well for a rookie CB

Sutton: D- should be updating his resume.

This defense sux, and they are poorly coached too.

nice to see that we finally agree.

And Mangenius is looking more like Manmoron every day.

So after Vilma is traded this off-season, it wiil be interesting to see who was more right about JV. Time will tell.

[K2C]

I bet we still get an early 2nd/late 1st for him!!!!

You'd be surpised just how overated he is around the league!!!!!!!

Overated?

Not in a 4-3 pal.

[SoFlaJets]

Now he's a "prima donna"?

This board keeps getting dumber and dumber.

Rich-just because he's a Hurricane doesn't make him great-you need to stop taking anything said about your team's players personally -we're talking about a square peg/round hole deal here-Vilma isn't fitting into the 3/4 defense. I called him a prima donna because he's over-rated-just like Chad and the "he give us the best chance to win crap"

....just like how you criticize the Pats fans for taking things personally-you do the same thing when anybody says anything bad about a Miami player-nobody is talking about you

[Kentucky Jet]

just because he's a Hurricane doesn't make him great-you need to stop taking anything said about your team's players personally JC-we're talking about a square peg/round hole deal here-Vilm isn't fitting into the 3/4 defense

JIM, I am not a Cane fan but I'd love to see VILMA operate behind a real NT in the 3-4 with speedy DEs and OLBs. And a real DC would help immensely too! Time for MANGREENI to stop the stubbronness!

[SoFlaJets]

JIM, I am not a Cane fan but I'd love to see VILMA operate behind a real NT in the 3-4 with speedy DEs and OLBs. And a real DC would help immensely too! Time for MANGREENI to stop the stubbronness!

yea me too-Mangini has guys all over the field playing out of position-remember I was one of the guys cheering the loudest when we drafted JV

[#27TheDominator]

And to think we could have gotten a late 1st round pick for Vilma before the season began. Now we'll be lucky to get a 3rd rounder.

Who was going to give us that 1st rounder? I've heard these rumors, but I don't believe them. Just like I didn't believe everybody was lining up to give us a 3rd or 4th for JMac.

Well then your book needs a re-write.

In 2005 the Jets played the 4-3. Vilma lead the league in tackles.

He lead a defense that was 28th in points (27.4), 28th in yds (377.7), 26th in pass yds (239.7), and 28th in rush yds (138.0). http://www.nfl.com/teams/statistics?season=2005&team=NYJ&seasonType=

So let's put our critical analysis caps on here.

Lead the league in tackles + 28th in rush defense = lead the league in tackles 8 yards deep. In a 4-3.

Oh, but it's D-Robs fault, or it's Fergusons fault for leaving. BS. When Jason Ferguson was here, everyone was calling for his head.

If Vilma was the star you seem to think he is, he would have raised the play of those around him, not expect others to pick him up.

He is a superstar in the college ranks. He is a stud.

In the NFL, he is a JAG. In the NFL, big tough and strong are more important in the middle than fast.

But please list other UM alumni to prove that JV is a star. That makes sense to me.

Maybe you need a little tutorial in reading the stat sheet yourself. I'm was one of the first proponents of Vilma being overrated in the 4-3, on this board in particular. OTOH, your listing 2005 stats is a joke. In 2005 the Jets had zero offense. None. Dealing with points against and yards allowed isn't fair when the offense had 75% three and outs. The Jets had, by far the most rushing attempts against in the league.

Lead the league in tackles + 28th in rush defense = lead the league in tackles 8 yards deep. In a 4-3.

Problem is, that's total yards rushing. The Jets were tied for twelfth best ypc against. So I guess there weren't that many guys tackling the RB closer to the line of scrimmage. The Jets had, by far the most rushing attempts against in the league. That means Vilma had many more opportunities for tackles, but is also means that it's ridiculous to blame him for the team having the 28th most rushing yards against.

Personally, I think stats can be twisted however you want. The Jets bad O made the D stay on the field longer and since teams were always ahead they ran more. It also means other teams should have played safe, so maybe passing yards and the ypc should have been down.

We can see Vilma's strengths and weaknesses with our own eyes. He is a good to very good player that is playing like **** because of either the scheme or ****ty supporting cast. Most likely both. He was not a stud, dominating build your team around him player. He is a nice young player. Not JAG, just because he isn't the Ray Lewis.

[GandWFan]

Who was going to give us that 1st rounder? I've heard these rumors, but I don't believe them. Just like I didn't believe everybody was lining up to give us a 3rd or 4th for JMac.

Maybe you need a little tutorial in reading the stat sheet yourself. I'm was one of the first proponents of Vilma being overrated in the 4-3, on this board in particular. OTOH, your listing 2005 stats is a joke. In 2005 the Jets had zero offense. None. Dealing with points against and yards allowed isn't fair when the offense had 75% three and outs. The Jets had, by far the most rushing attempts against in the league. Problem is, that's total yards rushing. The Jets were tied for twelfth best ypc against. So I guess there weren't that many guys tackling the RB closer to the line of scrimmage. The Jets had, by far the most rushing attempts against in the league. That means Vilma had many more opportunities for tackles, but is also means that it's ridiculous to blame him for the team having the 28th most rushing yards against.

Personally, I think stats can be twisted however you want. The Jets bad O made the D stay on the field longer and since teams were always ahead they ran more. It also means other teams should have played safe, so maybe passing yards and the ypc should have been down.

We can see Vilma's strengths and weaknesses with our own eyes. He is a good to very good player that is playing like **** because of either the scheme or ****ty supporting cast. Most likely both. He was not a stud, dominating build your team around him player. He is a nice young player. Not JAG, just because he isn't the Ray Lewis.

Oh, yes... could you please give me a tutorial, oh Great One... lol

So you are saying that we had an above average run defense in 2005. It was just that everyone ran on us. OK, then how come we had the 26th ranked pass defense? I guess they ran and passed on us. Yup, that sound like the defense I remember.

And to blame the offense when the defense can't get off the field is ridiculous. They were the most run on team because they couldn't stop ANYONE.

I seem to remember the KS game. First game of the season. KS had a drive early in the game. They ran every play. And scored a TD. The Jets looked like their bitches. Who was the MLB in that game? Yeah, I thought so.

[#27TheDominator]

Oh, yes... could you please give me a tutorial, oh Great One... lol

So you are saying that we had an above average run defense in 2005. It was just that everyone ran on us. OK, then how come we had the 26th ranked pass defense? I guess they ran and passed on us. Yup, that sound like the defense I remember.

And to blame the offense when the defense can't get off the field is ridiculous. They were the most run on team because they couldn't stop ANYONE.

I seem to remember the KS game. First game of the season. KS had a drive early in the game. They ran every play. And scored a TD. The Jets looked like their bitches. Who was the MLB in that game? Yeah, I thought so.

Maybe you should try to use small words, because I don't understand how you can deny that 3.9 ypc (12th best) means the guy is only making tackles 8 yards deep. You can laugh all you want, but you're the one using a distorted stat analysis. I pointed out that I don't believe in using only the stats AND that there were distortions in using it to prop up Vilma. However, if you think the offense wasn't at fault for that you are sadly mistaken. The Jets had more plays run against them. Why? In great part because the offense completely blew and more plays were run against them than other teams. That's how they had a poor pass D and a poor rush D. You made my point yourself. They went from 7th least plays against to 4th most. A dramatic change that is not only from their poor play, but fatigue and more time on the field because we had a rudderless O and a coach that had only one goal-getting Curtis 1,000.Vilma was also the middle linebacker on the '04 team that was 7th in yards allowed. I guess he lost weight and started getting pushed around? Oh no, I forgot, it was Jason Ferguson, a journeyman DT that spent more time on the injured list than JAbe that stopped the run single handedly.

Yes, the Jets looked like bitches in the opener at KC. I have said repeatedly that believe Vilma is overrated as a 4-3 MLB, but he's still a good player. Do you think nobody has ever run on the Dolphins or Bears? I guess that means that Urlacher and Zach Thomas must suck.

[JetCane]

Rich-just because he's a Hurricane doesn't make him great-you need to stop taking anything said about your team's players personally -we're talking about a square peg/round hole deal here-Vilma isn't fitting into the 3/4 defense. I called him a prima donna because he's over-rated-just like Chad and the "he give us the best chance to win crap"

He has not been a prima donna, and your use of that description was flat out wrong and that's what i said in my post. If you want to say he is overrated, go ahead, but if you want to see what a prima donna is, look at john Abe, who stays out of a playoff game with a tummy ache.

That is a prima donna. Players who complain a lot or sit out games with mild injuries are prima donnas. He has been neither.

There are plenty of criticsms that can be levelled against Vilma, but being a prima donna is not one of them.

mangina still sux.