AFJF Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 I've seen a lot of people predict a choke job by the pats in the post season and recall comments about how Tom Brady "choked" in the playoffs last year and even as a Jet fan it just makes me laugh. I'm not sure how many of you realize this, but there is a difference between "choking" and "losing" "choking" refers to a team/player that does not perform to their expectations because the weight of the situation becomes too much for them to handle and they lose foucus or fail to execute due to anxiety (see Alex Rodriguez) If the Pats lose, it will be because they were outplayed by their opponent. Tom Brady and the nucleus of that defense (Seymour, Bruschi, Harrison, Vrabel) have all been there before. Several times. They've won it all several times. They've proven that they don't get shaken or rattled by being in a big spot, on the big stage. So to say they will have choked as a team if they lose is just silly IMO. Now if it comes down to the kicker, and he shanks a game winning FG, they will regret losing Vinatieri and it could easily be said that Gradkowski choked. Again, JMO on the difference between losing and choking. The Pats might lose, and if they do I don't know how any objective fan can say they choked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatriotReign37 Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 The Pats are 12 points favorites vs Jax and expected to win the whole thing. If they fall short of a Championship, they have choked. 16 - 0 isnt good enough, getting to the AFCC isnt good enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetman_67 Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 After going 16-0 anything short of winning the whole thing would be considered a choke job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIGHT STALKER Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 The thing I have a problem with is your reference to ARod. Yeah, he hasn't performed well in the playoffs with the Yankees, but it's a team effort as well...just like it is with the Patriots. And just like the Patriots, the Yanks had the experience...even without ARod. You go in as a team...you can't blame just one guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted January 9, 2008 Author Share Posted January 9, 2008 The thing I have a problem with is your reference to ARod. Yeah, he hasn't performed well in the playoffs with the Yankees, but it's a team effort as well...just like it is with the Patriots. And just like the Patriots, the Yanks had the experience...even without ARod. You go in as a team...you can't blame just one guy. The reason I used A-Rod as an example is becuase he is the epitome of choking. Failing to come through when the stage gets too big. There are others on the team who have failed to come through recently but those are guys who have shown they can get it done in the clutch too. NO PLAYER gets it done all the time. Some have done it enough times to prove they're not chokers. The nucleus of the Pats falls in to that category. Have done it enough times to prove they are not chokers. Gusy like A-Rod have almost NEVER gotten it done, showing he is a choker who may get the occassional big hit based more on the law of averages than coming up in a big spot. Again, JMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 Just because a guy didn't choke in the past doesn't mean that he won't choke in the future. Circumstances change. Winning the super bowl does not automatically mean that you won't ever choke in the future. Vinatieri is the perfect example. People want to rant up and down about how clutch he was, but against Carolina he **** the bed to the tune of 1 for 3. IIRC, both his misses were from inside the 40, yet he is held up as some kind of paragon of clutch. Jackie Smith and Bill Buckner were both excellent players for decades and then choked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetfan13 Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 The thing I have a problem with is your reference to ARod. Yeah, he hasn't performed well in the playoffs with the Yankees, but it's a team effort as well...just like it is with the Patriots. And just like the Patriots, the Yanks had the experience...even without ARod. You go in as a team...you can't blame just one guy.[/quote] unless his name is Pennington right? lol sorry, couldn't resist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afosomf Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 if they lose it is a choke with all the press clippings that started at wk 9..... and all 24/7 coverage... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny green balls Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 if they lose it is a choke with all the press clippings that started at wk 9..... and all 24/7 coverage... correct. brady has already been fitted for his crown, anything less than lombardi is choke city. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBrick Wall Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 This thread makes me laugh. When A-Rod doesn't perform well it's his fault, but if the Patriots lose it's because their opponent was too good. When A-Rod fails, why can't it be because the opposing pitcher outperformed him? You can't have it both ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drago Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 what did brady have last year? 3 or 4 picks against the chargers? How did he do in the second half, when all he had to do was move the chains against the colts? Cindy isn't exactly on his 'A' game in the playoffs lately. He'll swallow another knob, then go home and impregnate some more models. at least he's good at something... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackout Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 The reason I used A-Rod as an example is becuase he is the epitome of choking. Failing to come through when the stage gets too big. 2004 vs minnesota? 2000 vs the Yankees? Alex has had some good postseason moments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBrick Wall Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 [quote name='Blackout Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFSIKH Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 what did brady have last year? 3 or 4 picks against the chargers? How did he do in the second half, when all he had to do was move the chains against the colts? Like when he hit Troy Brown in the hands on third down and he dropped it? Just wondering. I agree with AFJ. Saying the Patriots are chokers if they lose is dumb. That means the Jags will have nothing to do with the win. We all know that is not true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai Jet Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 [quote name='Blackout Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai Jet Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Not to mention he had twice the year David Ortiz, the most clutchiest hitter in the history of professional baseball, had last year in close and late situations, and also performed better with runners on base and in scoring position. I like the way he also lead the Skanks to a WS title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai Jet Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 The Pats are 12 points favorites vs Jax and expected to win the whole thing. If they fall short of a Championship, they have choked. 16 - 0 isnt good enough, getting to the AFCC isnt good enough. For once we are in total agreement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBrick Wall Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 How many rings does he have? AFrauds THE classic choker. Yeah Luis Sojo is so much better of a player than A-Rod. Use something other than ring count and you might have a borderline competent argument there buddy. Otherwise you'll sound like every other dumbass POS journalist that spews **** about A-Rod every day when they don't know half of what they're talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai Jet Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Yeah Luis Sojo is so much better of a player than A-Rod. Use something other than ring count and you might have a borderline competent argument there buddy. Otherwise you'll sound like every other dumbass POS journalist that spews **** about A-Rod every day when they don't know half of what they're talking about. You dound like the dumbass here pal . Do the math yourself. In his Yankee years AFraud hits for a .303 BA regular season. In those same years he's hit .244 post season, with 4 homers in 94 at bats. Sounds like YOU don't know what your talking about. Get some facts before flappin the old jaws. Trying to defend AFraud in this case is delusional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 You dound like the dumbass here pal . Do the math yourself. In his Yankee years AFraud hits for a .303 BA regular season. In those same years he's hit .244 post season, with 4 homers in 94 at bats. Sounds like YOU don't know what your talking about. Get some facts before flappin the old jaws. Trying to defend AFraud in this case is delusional. What is delusional is claiming a player isn't a "choker" because he has a ring. John Elway? Super Clutch! Guess everybody forgets how he **** the bed against Washington...and San Francisco. Big Ben in '05? He must be clutch! He won the Super Bowl! Actually, he totally blew. This "just win, baby" bull**** is nice, but when applied to individuals is a clear cut joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kidhuman Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 It would go down as the bigest choke job in Pro Football, the Oilers would be off the hook for that Buffalo game some 15 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted January 10, 2008 Author Share Posted January 10, 2008 Choke (sports) to become too tense or nervous to perform well Okay, so if I'm reading most of you correctly...you think that a team/coach who has the best modern day dynasty in the NFL having won three rings and set numerous team records, if they don't win a 4th ring they have choked? Again, keeping in mind what it means to choke. It means to fold under pressure. Inability to focus due to anxiety. All of a sudden, after winning three rings and several nail biting playoff games, the Pats will all of a sudden become overwhelmed by the post-season spotlight? I know that the Pats are hated by Jet fans and it's more fun to be able to say they "choked" instead of "they lost". To each his/her own I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irish Jet Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Choke (sports) to become too tense or nervous to perform well Okay, so if I'm reading most of you correctly...you think that a team/coach who has the best modern day dynasty in the NFL having won three rings and set numerous team records, if they don't win a 4th ring they have choked? Again, keeping in mind what it means to choke. It means to fold under pressure. Inability to focus due to anxiety. All of a sudden, after winning three rings and several nail biting playoff games, the Pats will all of a sudden become overwhelmed by the post-season spotlight? I know that the Pats are hated by Jet fans and it's more fun to be able to say they "choked" instead of "they lost". To each his/her own I suppose. Yup, you nailed it!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Choke (sports) to become too tense or nervous to perform well Okay, so if I'm reading most of you correctly...you think that a team/coach who has the best modern day dynasty in the NFL having won three rings and set numerous team records, if they don't win a 4th ring they have choked? Again, keeping in mind what it means to choke. It means to fold under pressure. Inability to focus due to anxiety. All of a sudden, after winning three rings and several nail biting playoff games, the Pats will all of a sudden become overwhelmed by the post-season spotlight? I know that the Pats are hated by Jet fans and it's more fun to be able to say they "choked" instead of "they lost". To each his/her own I suppose. So, simply because they have won in the past they can't choke? If they blow a 35-3 lead ala the Oiler-Bills they will have choked. If they lose on a 60 yard fg they will have simply lost. The simple fact is that there is more pressure on them this year than ever before. There is a reason that coaches always try to make it "us against them, against all odds". It's to keep the pressure to a minimum. It is quite possible that somebody will fold up and cave under the pressure of being a huge overdog and looking for a perfect season. Maybe Moss will throw a tantrum, maybe Brady will fumble. Maybe Gay will get cramps or Bruschi will have gastric distress. You can't say for sure until you see the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drago Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Like when he hit Troy Brown in the hands on third down and he dropped it? Just wondering. I agree with AFJ. Saying the Patriots are chokers if they lose is dumb. That means the Jags will have nothing to do with the win. We all know that is not true. No, i mean the times when he hit the Chargers saftey in the hands and he fumbled it, when he could have knocked it down, or the time when he decided to pick on Champ Bailey when he could have chosen any number of defenders to challenge on the five yard line, or the time he was coming back against the jets in the reg season, held the ball too long got hit and lobbed it to coleman. As the game gets bigger brady doesn't look as much like montana, as he looks like alex smith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garb Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 No, i mean the times when he hit the Chargers saftey in the hands and he fumbled it, when he could have knocked it down, or the time when he decided to pick on Champ Bailey when he could have chosen any number of defenders to challenge on the five yard line, or the time he was coming back against the jets in the reg season, held the ball too long got hit and lobbed it to coleman. As the game gets bigger brady doesn't look as much like montana, as he looks like alex smith. Interesting view......did you watch any of the SB's the Pats were in? Heck, did you watch the game against the Giants? Yah, that Brady sure looks like sh*t under pressure....as the game gets bigger he gets smaller. Yup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rillo Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 It'll be great....*IF* it happens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBrick Wall Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Choke (sports) to become too tense or nervous to perform well Okay, so if I'm reading most of you correctly...you think that a team/coach who has the best modern day dynasty in the NFL having won three rings and set numerous team records, if they don't win a 4th ring they have choked? Again, keeping in mind what it means to choke. It means to fold under pressure. Inability to focus due to anxiety. All of a sudden, after winning three rings and several nail biting playoff games, the Pats will all of a sudden become overwhelmed by the post-season spotlight? I know that the Pats are hated by Jet fans and it's more fun to be able to say they "choked" instead of "they lost". To each his/her own I suppose. Do you think the Yankees choked in 2004? After all they won 4 out of 5 championships and had made the playoffs every year for the past 10 years then and had gone to 7 World Series while winning 4 of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBrick Wall Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 You dound like the dumbass here pal . Do the math yourself. In his Yankee years AFraud hits for a .303 BA regular season. In those same years he's hit .244 post season, with 4 homers in 94 at bats. Sounds like YOU don't know what your talking about. Get some facts before flappin the old jaws. Trying to defend AFraud in this case is delusional. You love small sample sizes don't you? Wanna know what high and mighty Scott Brosius' career postseason numbers are? .245/.278/.418. THAT'S what I call clutch. Even if A-Rod hit .330 in the postseason the last few years it wouldn't have done much because the entire Yankee team **** the bed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garb Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Do you think the Yankees choked in 2004? After all they won 4 out of 5 championships and had made the playoffs every year for the past 10 years then and had gone to 7 World Series while winning 4 of them. Apples and Oranges here. The Yanees led the series 3-0 - convincingly - needed only one more victory and didn't get it. Second biggest choke in sports history next to the 86 Red Sox Choke for the Ages. Put it this way, the Pats "choked" last year against the Colts - giving up a huge lead and losing it. Losing to the Jags - if they are outplayed - isn't a choke, it's the better team winning. Would really suck too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny green balls Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 You love small sample sizes don't you? Wanna know what high and mighty Scott Brosius' career postseason numbers are? .245/.278/.418. THAT'S what I call clutch. Even if A-Rod hit .330 in the postseason the last few years it wouldn't have done much because the entire Yankee team **** the bed. yup, including arod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drago Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Interesting view......did you watch any of the SB's the Pats were in? Heck, did you watch the game against the Giants? Yah, that Brady sure looks like sh*t under pressure....as the game gets bigger he gets smaller. Yup. yeah i saw the super bowls. He did well in the ones that he wasn't a rookie (minus the final drive, which was sweet, and i was actually pulling for him). Did you just use the Giants as proof that brady doesn't fold? Yeah it was a big game, but come on, it was the f'in Va-giants!!! I'm simply saying that brady folds up tent in his recent playoff games, i've said more than a few times, so if it doesn't happen this year feel free to dig 'em up and rub it in my face. That's right, you aren't like that, and i'd just stop posting anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBrick Wall Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 yup, including arod. I'm not saying he didn't suck but to claim he was the sole reason for their collapses is delusional. Many of those years he was the main reason they even made the postseason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afosomf Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Apples and Oranges here. The Yanees led the series 3-0 - convincingly - needed only one more victory and didn't get it. Second biggest choke in sports history next to the 86 Red Sox Choke for the Ages. Put it this way, the Pats "choked" last year against the Colts - giving up a huge lead and losing it. Losing to the Jags - if they are outplayed - isn't a choke, it's the better team winning. Would really suck too. that's a matter of opinion:cheergal: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garb Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 yeah i saw the super bowls. He did well in the ones that he wasn't a rookie (minus the final drive, which was sweet, and i was actually pulling for him). Did you just use the Giants as proof that brady doesn't fold? Yeah it was a big game, but come on, it was the f'in Va-giants!!! I'm simply saying that brady folds up tent in his recent playoff games, i've said more than a few times, so if it doesn't happen this year feel free to dig 'em up and rub it in my face. That's right, you aren't like that, and i'd just stop posting anyway. I must be honest here. You seem like a nice fellow. Your g/f seems cool as heck and you're lucky to have her, but sometimes I think your football acumen sucks. Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.