MSGold12 Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 If Tanny merely sends Vilma to the Lions for a 3rd then he is simply being stupid and not seeing a bigger picture here. There is potnetial for a serious blokbuster wiht that team and if we dont pursue it then we are nuts! It even works out cap wise!!!! The lions: A 4-3 base, Tampa style D that needs an smart impact MLB and an stud 3 technique DT. Vilma (if healthy) is a 2 time pro bowl 4-3 MLB and DRob was playing near pro bowl level in 2005 before we went 3-4. The jets: a 3-4 base team in need of a big plugger at NT and a team in need of an impact WR. Rogers is a 340 pound run stuffer and Roy Williams (who is now expendable with JOhnson there and wants a new deal or wants out) is a legit #1 WR. DRob and Vilma are about 12 mil on the cap combined for next year (althugh I am sure both will re-do their deals wiht a new team and that number will lower significantly. Rogers is signed long term and Williams will need a new deal but I guarantee that combined both will not equal 12 mil on the cap...not even close. MAKE THE DAMN DEAL!!!! I would like some Lions fans perspective on this also but if a 2 for 2 doesnt fly, I am sure we can toss in a pick here or there. But is it me or does this trade make SO much sense that its ridicuous!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpandthefu Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 Marinelli just said he wasn't trading Williams two days ago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetpower10 Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 would be nice to get rogers being as he has a frame like williams and hampton big and solid and is a big presence on the line. Williams i would die to see become a jet will it happen doubt it but would like to see. have to toss in a fairly decent draft pick for them to consider it tho. i would try for jenkins whom is a big guy, do believe is a FA. WR spot go get lloyd or stallworth. keep Drob, and trade off vilma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rillo Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 Marinelli just said he wasn't trading Williams two days ago Yeah...I thought I read that too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harts724 Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 Marinelli just said he wasn't trading Williams two days ago Saw the same thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alk Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 I'm trying to figure out how this would be an even trade. I don't even think Matt Millen would be dumb enough to pull the trigger on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSGold12 Posted February 27, 2008 Author Share Posted February 27, 2008 Marinelli just said he wasn't trading Williams two days ago And we said we weren't trading Vilma a few weeks ago...things have a habit of changing when the right deal comes along. BL, they have a ton of money invested in Calvin Johnson and are not going to want to give mega deals to 2 WRs. Williams has 2 years left on his deal but is already making noise about a new deal. Marianelli is not going to come out and say "yeah, we want to move him"...he wants to keep his value up as hig as possible but fr the right deal, I have no doubt that Williams would be "available". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSGold12 Posted February 27, 2008 Author Share Posted February 27, 2008 I'm trying to figure out how this would be an even trade. I don't even think Matt Millen would be dumb enough to pull the trigger on this one. I'm sorry...and if I had said that getitng Randy MOss for a 4th was tottaly unrealistic and that not even Al davis would be stuid enough to make that trade, how would I look??? BL, all 4 players have warts. Drob has had a couple of off years in the 3-4, Vilma the same and is coming off injury, Rogers has been suspeneded and got himself fat, Williiams is coming off knee surgery and is complaining about wanting a new deal. As i said, draft picks may need to be added but this is not that far fetched an idea. The 2 Jets are perfect fits for Det and the two Lins are perfect fits for the Jets. Injuries and schemes aside, the jets send a pro bowl 4-3 MLB and a near pro bowl 4-3 DT to the Lions for a near pro bowl NT and a near pro bowl WR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 If Tanny merely sends Vilma to the Lions for a 3rd then he is simply being stupid and not seeing a bigger picture here. There is potnetial for a serious blokbuster wiht that team and if we dont pursue it then we are nuts! It even works out cap wise!!!! The lions: A 4-3 base, Tampa style D that needs an smart impact MLB and an stud 3 technique DT. Vilma (if healthy) is a 2 time pro bowl 4-3 MLB and DRob was playing near pro bowl level in 2005 before we went 3-4. The jets: a 3-4 base team in need of a big plugger at NT and a team in need of an impact WR. Rogers is a 340 pound run stuffer and Roy Williams (who is now expendable with JOhnson there and wants a new deal or wants out) is a legit #1 WR. DRob and Vilma are about 12 mil on the cap combined for next year (althugh I am sure both will re-do their deals wiht a new team and that number will lower significantly. Rogers is signed long term and Williams will need a new deal but I guarantee that combined both will not equal 12 mil on the cap...not even close. MAKE THE DAMN DEAL!!!! I would like some Lions fans perspective on this also but if a 2 for 2 doesnt fly, I am sure we can toss in a pick here or there. But is it me or does this trade make SO much sense that its ridicuous!!!! Vilma has made one pro bowl, not two. And it was as an alternate. And that was 3 seasons - and one season-ending knee injury - ago. He also needs a new contract, which would surely be eight figures of guaranteed money. DRob would have a lot more trade value if not for his contract, given his age (26), experience (5 years), and even though it was years ago he was a #4 overall draft selection. However, he only has 2 years left on his current contract and the first one is a $9.8M hit for 2008 alone for anyone who gets him. Meaning he needs a new contract. Meaning it's going to take more than $10M guaranteed money in year one alone to lock him up. Detroit would be looking at probably at least $25 million in guaranteed/signing bonus money in year one. Given that, I don't know that we get Roy Williams AND Shaun Rogers for them so fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 The Lions love receivers. Why don't you throw Coles in and complete the salary dump? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 Marinelli just said on Sirius that they are not going to trade Roy Williams. Besides if they trade him Millen will just replace him with another WR in Round One. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoFlaJets Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 And we said we weren't trading Vilma a few weeks ago...things have a habit of changing when the right deal comes along. BL, they have a ton of money invested in Calvin Johnson and are not going to want to give mega deals to 2 WRs. Williams has 2 years left on his deal but is already making noise about a new deal. Marianelli is not going to come out and say "yeah, we want to move him"...he wants to keep his value up as hig as possible but fr the right deal, I have no doubt that Williams would be "available". yea I take the "he's in our plans" thing with a grain of salt-in fact Jets history shows when they satr saying these kinds of things the opposite is usually the case Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSGold12 Posted February 27, 2008 Author Share Posted February 27, 2008 Vilma has made one pro bowl, not two. And it was as an alternate. And that was 3 seasons - and one season-ending knee injury - ago. He also needs a new contract, which would surely be eight figures of guaranteed money. DRob would have a lot more trade value if not for his contract, given his age (26), experience (5 years), and even though it was years ago he was a #4 overall draft selection. However, he only has 2 years left on his current contract and the first one is a $9.8M hit for 2008 alone for anyone who gets him. Meaning he needs a new contract. Meaning it's going to take more than $10M guaranteed money in year one alone to lock him up. Detroit would be looking at probably at least $25 million in guaranteed/signing bonus money in year one. Given that, I don't know that we get Roy Williams AND Shaun Rogers for them so fast. If healthy, is Vilma a pro bowl calibar MLB in a 4-3? Answer yes. And signing him to a new deal wil cost them less now then it would next off season when he is a FA. Coming off his injury, I am guesisng a 7-8 mil SB is reaistic. Vilma also has to know that another year in a 3-4 is probably not in his best interest and may take a sligly lesser offer now rather then take his chances after 2008. But bases in the inital years of these deals are low to off set the SB...usually in the 500K-1.5 mil range max. Drob would clearly have to redo his deal. A 10 mil singing bonus makes up for his base in 2008 wuld translate into a base of about 500K- 1M for the first couple of years of the deal. They would then guantee additional larger slary bases in say years 3 and 4 of the deal. Aa a 4-3 DT in 2004 and 2005, he seemed to be on the verge of taking the next step. as a 3-4 NT, he is lost and like Vilma probably realizes anohter year in a 3-4 is not in hs best interest.. But the total year 1 investment on the two players, yes, would be around 20-22 mil. BUT...they lose Rogers who is due 4.2, ( then 5.2 and then 7 mil over the next 3 years) and Williams who is due 600K AND will also command a 8-10 mil bonus when they rdo his deal next season. When you factor that in its a net of only about 5 or 6 mil. Believe it or not, its doable financially if the Lins are willing and (of course) if Vilma is healthy. BUT, as I have said, if picks need to be added to make this happen, I am willing to explore that too. We own a very high 3rd that I would be willig to aprt with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawn306 Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 Man I wish I understood everyone's fascination with Rogers. The guy is fat, is an up and down players and has been suspended by the league for violating the leagues steroid policy. The guy to me seems to be a bit much to handle. I understand he is a a two time pro bowler but is he really worth bringing here ? I just don't think this is a slam dunk deal. I would rather see them go after a NT in the draft. JMHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSGold12 Posted February 27, 2008 Author Share Posted February 27, 2008 Man I wish I understood everyone's fascination with Rogers. The guy is fat, is an up and down players and has been suspended by the league for violating the leagues steroid policy. The guy to me seems to be a bit much to handle. I understand he is a a two time pro bowler but is he really worth bringing here ? I just don't think this is a slam dunk deal. I would rather see them go after a NT in the draft. JMHO I hear ya Shawn..but the guy is very talented and is not old. maybe achange of scenery is what he needs. I also heard similar "lazy" issues abuot Ted Washington...right before he anchored a couple of SB winning DLs in NE! BTW, I'll be e-mailed you shortly...got a few new things in and may have a few more soon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSGold12 Posted February 27, 2008 Author Share Posted February 27, 2008 I'm trying to figure out how this would be an even trade. I don't even think Matt Millen would be dumb enough to pull the trigger on this one. Intersting...I've had a couple of responses from Lions fans on anohter board and they not only like the deal, one even said he proposed the same deal. I ma not saying it a perfect deal but its also not NEARLY as one sided as you claim. Maybe a little Patriot-bias showing through Alk???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 Man I wish I understood everyone's fascination with Rogers. The guy is fat, is an up and down players and has been suspended by the league for violating the leagues steroid policy. The guy to me seems to be a bit much to handle. I understand he is a a two time pro bowler but is he really worth bringing here ? I just don't think this is a slam dunk deal. I would rather see them go after a NT in the draft. JMHO I'd rather see both. I agree with the problems with Rogers, but he fits the mold of NT much better than DRob or most of the FA/waiver wire DTs that we have seen out there. If we get him he'll be all salary. Cutting him will have no cap implications. To me the main issue is that he isn't going to want to 2 gap and will probably want more money despite his huge salary. He doesn't seem like the kind of guy who will produce unless he wants to. I want to draft an NT, but we aren't going to count on that guy too much the first year or two and DRob is gone. We can't pay DRob's $9.5M to stay and the fact that other teams seem interested means he will not take a pay cut to spend another year playing out of position. There are no top of the draft NTs (Ellis and Dorsey seem like they'd be as out of place as DRob). Okam in the second, Red Bryant or Rubin in the third or later would be great, but I don't want to count on them paired with Pouha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irish Jet Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 Man I wish I understood everyone's fascination with Rogers. The guy is fat, is an up and down players and has been suspended by the league for violating the leagues steroid policy. The guy to me seems to be a bit much to handle. I understand he is a a two time pro bowler but is he really worth bringing here ? I just don't think this is a slam dunk deal. I would rather see them go after a NT in the draft. JMHO There aren't many great NT's in the draft to be fair. The guy is fat, I agree, but that's a damn good thing for a 3-4 NT. Vince Wilfork is fat, Jamal Williams is fat, so what??? They're also incredibly strong forces in the middle of a defence that will require double blocks every time. The guy is a beast and his off field problem better not be the reason we pass up on him they have been nothing to drastic. I will be evry dissapointed if we don't make a serious run at him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 Man I wish I understood everyone's fascination with Rogers. The guy is fat, is an up and down players and has been suspended by the league for violating the leagues steroid policy. The guy to me seems to be a bit much to handle. I understand he is a a two time pro bowler but is he really worth bringing here ? I just don't think this is a slam dunk deal. I would rather see them go after a NT in the draft. JMHO I agree. People just seem to glide on past the blatant character concerns with this player, I can't see Mangini and tanny just doing the same. If Shaun Rogers became a NY Jet it would be extremely surprising to say the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawn306 Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 I agree. People just seem to glide on past the blatant character concerns with this player, I can't see Mangini and tanny just doing the same. If Shaun Rogers became a NY Jet it would be extremely surprising to say the least. I can tell you why. All you have to do is take a look up at New England and how Randy Moss did. Big diffrence though between a 18-1 team that goes to the playoffs every year and another team that is coming off a 4-12 season. I am just finding it a little tough to believe that a guy is going to be with Rogers past history is going all of sudden be motivated and buy into Mangini's bootcamp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 I can tell you why. All you have to do is take a look up at New England and how Randy Moss did. Big diffrence though between a 18-1 team that goes to the playoffs every year and another team that is coming off a 4-12 season. I am just finding it a little tough to believe that a guy is going to be with Rogers past history is going all of sudden be motivated and buy into Mangini's bootcamp. I agree it's a big concern. But I've seen the alternative the past two years & it sucks. So I'd say this is worth a try plus I'd still take a Rubin or Okam in round 3 or 4 just in case. And I wouldn't redo his deal until after this season b/c he does have 3 years remaining; if we can swallow $9M cap charges in 1 year for DRob then I could live with a $5M charge for Rogers. Oh man, I can see it. We're going to promise to redo his deal if he plays well. Would you f'ing die if we re-negged on an agreement to do that with 3 different players in 3 years? Doubt you get to play that card on any player at any position ever again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 plus think about Rogers' perspective would he agree to a trade to a team with the hardest most grueling training camp in all of the league? he's probably on the phone with his agent telling him to work a trade anywhere but here. Moss chose NE because of Brady and a chance for a ring why would Rogers choose NYJ and Mangini's junction boys training camp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterNorth09 Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 If Tanny merely sends Vilma to the Lions for a 3rd then he is simply being stupid and not seeing a bigger picture here. There is potnetial for a serious blokbuster wiht that team and if we dont pursue it then we are nuts! It even works out cap wise!!!! The lions: A 4-3 base, Tampa style D that needs an smart impact MLB and an stud 3 technique DT. Vilma (if healthy) is a 2 time pro bowl 4-3 MLB and DRob was playing near pro bowl level in 2005 before we went 3-4. The jets: a 3-4 base team in need of a big plugger at NT and a team in need of an impact WR. Rogers is a 340 pound run stuffer and Roy Williams (who is now expendable with JOhnson there and wants a new deal or wants out) is a legit #1 WR. DRob and Vilma are about 12 mil on the cap combined for next year (althugh I am sure both will re-do their deals wiht a new team and that number will lower significantly. Rogers is signed long term and Williams will need a new deal but I guarantee that combined both will not equal 12 mil on the cap...not even close. MAKE THE DAMN DEAL!!!! I would like some Lions fans perspective on this also but if a 2 for 2 doesnt fly, I am sure we can toss in a pick here or there. But is it me or does this trade make SO much sense that its ridicuous!!!! I like this idea alot and praise your creativity but to make this even more realistic the Jets would probably have to throw in at least this year's 2nd round pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterNorth09 Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 plus think about Rogers' perspective would he agree to a trade to a team with the hardest most grueling training camp in all of the league? he's probably on the phone with his agent telling him to work a trade anywhere but here. Moss chose NE because of Brady and a chance for a ring why would Rogers choose NYJ and Mangini's junction boys training camp? So get rid of Mangini then. Rogers would be more valuable to this franchise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 Williams is not getting traded, BUBBLE POPPED! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 plus think about Rogers' perspective would he agree to a trade to a team with the hardest most grueling training camp in all of the league? he's probably on the phone with his agent telling him to work a trade anywhere but here. Moss chose NE because of Brady and a chance for a ring why would Rogers choose NYJ and Mangini's junction boys training camp? lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSGold12 Posted February 27, 2008 Author Share Posted February 27, 2008 I like this idea alot and praise your creativity but to make this even more realistic the Jets would probably have to throw in at least this year's 2nd round pick. I was thinking more along the lines of our 3. I think a 2 is overpaying since Rogers does come with some baggage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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