nico002 Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 Approx numbers Chad to Baker 13 receptions for 135 Yards Kellen to Baker 28 receptions for 275 yards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 Approx numbers Chad to Baker 13 receptions for 135 Yards Kellen to Baker 28 receptions for 275 yards An excellent observation, along with an excellent avatar. it sounds like there is a plan to have Clemens succeed. he likes throwing those seam patterns over the middle that Pennington can't throw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TNJet Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 Yep, I knew drafting a vertical TE in rnd 1 wasnt for noodle arm... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 That's friggin' awesome. Or depressing, depending on how you look at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoFlaJets Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 An excellent observation, along with an excellent avatar. it sounds like there is a plan to have Clemens succeed. he likes throwing those seam patterns over the middle that Pennington can't throw. that IS an excellent avatar by Nico-I had to show my son-he was cracking up too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irish Jet Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 They also got a guy who can turn dump offs into huge gains. Just sayin'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Troll Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 They also got a guy who can turn dump offs into huge gains. Just sayin'. Chad dumps it off to everyone but tight ends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irish Jet Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 Chad dumps it off to everyone but tight ends. Probably mainly because his TE's have sucked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Troll Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 Probably mainly because his TE's have sucked. The evidence presented in this thread (Baker had twice as many catches with Clemens at QB) seems to suggest otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irish Jet Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 The evidence presented in this thread (Baker had twice as many catches with Clemens at QB) seems to suggest otherwise. Those numbers still hardly suggest that Baker was in any way great. Also take into account that KC had games where Coles and Cotchery were either hurting or out altogether, Baker was all Clemens had left in many situations. Time will tell what happens at QB, because the truth is none of us have any idea what will happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Troll Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 Those numbers still hardly suggest that Baker was in any way great. Also take into account that KC had games where Coles and Cotchery were either hurting or out altogether, Baker was all Clemens had left in many situations. Time will tell what happens at QB, because the truth is none of us have any idea what will happen. I ain't saying Baker was great. He's about average. I'm saying Chad just doesn't throw to the TE and it's not because the TE just sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
124 Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 Really, the Jets drafted a Tight End only by name. Keller doesn't block and will play more in the slot and out of the backfield than he will on the line. Say hello to Dallas Clark or Chris Cooley Part 2. They won't block, they'll be coming out of the backfield or playing in the slot catching the passes. They really drafted a Wide Receiver in a Tight Ends body. The guy actually did use to be a Wide Receiver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villain_the_foe Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 Approx numbers Chad to Baker 13 receptions for 135 Yards Kellen to Baker 28 receptions for 275 yards Something to add to the beautiful Draft Class of 06! GO Clemens! Check out the Vid. http://youtube.com/watch?v=3LORAxQMmWE P.S. this Draft Class is much better than the 06 Class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serphnx Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 Really, the Jets drafted a Tight End only by name. Keller doesn't block and will play more in the slot and out of the backfield than he will on the line. Say hello to Dallas Clark or Chris Cooley Part 2. They won't block, they'll be coming out of the backfield or playing in the slot catching the passes. They really drafted a Wide Receiver in a Tight Ends body. The guy actually did use to be a Wide Receiver. Dallas Clark isn't a bad player to emulate at all. It's too bad we don't have a legitimate blocking TE, but I guess that's why we shored up the O-line, got Richardson, and ask TJ and LW to be good blockers. Still, a good blocking TE helps immeasurably in short yardage, something we have struggled with. What is Becht doing these days anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arsis Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 Those numbers still hardly suggest that Baker was in any way great. Also take into account that KC had games where Coles and Cotchery were either hurting or out altogether, Baker was all Clemens had left in many situations. Time will tell what happens at QB, because the truth is none of us have any idea what will happen. This argument is actually being made to be used against Clemens... it's unreal. He did more with less and no one seems to see that which baffles me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irish Jet Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 This argument is actually being made to be used against Clemens... it's unreal. He did more with less and no one seems to see that which baffles me. That's not the point at all. We're talking about the TE production. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoicsentry Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 Don't know why some are trashing Baker. Sure, he trashed himself enough with his whining, but the dude has great hands. Definitely an above average TE, when utilized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 I wouldn't call him an above average receiver. All he did was catch some catchable passes that were thrown to him. That makes him a receiver, not an above average receiver. Also, that he was helping D'Brickashaw block a lot & still there were a number of from that side doesn't speak much of his blocking prowess. Nor is he much of a lead blocker or even a seal-off-the-route blocker in the ground game either. He's a legitimate NFL starter, but a bottom-tier one at that. I can understand his frustration, but no one forced him to take a 4 year deal. That was his choice because he was afraid of getting nothing (which is what the other 31 teams offered). He thought he was being smart when he took that 2008 money in advance. Well now his 2008 cap number is low enough to keep him around as a backup/insurance policy for 1-2 other TE's. When you're making $700K in salary you lose all leverage for the season. Guess he didn't think of that in late 2007. And walking out BEFORE the draft, giving the Jets prime opportunity to put out any fires in advance by drafting another TE, was the epitome of stupidity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancemehl Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 Approx numbers Chad to Baker 13 receptions for 135 Yards Kellen to Baker 28 receptions for 275 yards are you including pre-season games in that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetfuel Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 Approx numbers Chad to Baker 13 receptions for 135 Yards Kellen to Baker 28 receptions for 275 yards So, they only drafted Keller so that Clemens has a TE? That is ridiculous. The TE's haven't been used as much because they have had to cover up for the poor OL. Your reading too much into the numbers here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetfuel Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 Don't know why some are trashing Baker. Sure, he trashed himself enough with his whining, but the dude has great hands. Definitely an above average TE, when utilized. Agreed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 So, they only drafted Keller so that Clemens has a TE? That is ridiculous. The TE's haven't been used as much because they have had to cover up for the poor OL. Your reading too much into the numbers here. Agreed. But he wasn't so great at helping with the perimeter blocking either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetfuel Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 Agreed. But he wasn't so great at helping with the perimeter blocking either. I'm confused .... Keller? Keller is not really a TE. He is an over-sized WR, slot guy, H-Back. He was not drafted to block. Or did you mean Baker didn't do a good job blocking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 I'm confused .... Keller? Keller is not really a TE. He is an over-sized WR, slot guy, H-Back. He was not drafted to block. Or did you mean Baker didn't do a good job blocking? Baker didn't. And if he's willing, I don't know that he can't block. He was asked to be the go-to receiver at Purdue, not the guy who stays in & helps his OL block. I outlined a lot of current, multi-dimensional TE's with similar "bulk" to Keller. Now he's either a willing student or he is not. He claims he is, but they all say that at this point. If he can't block at all, it won't be because of his size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetfuel Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 Baker didn't. And if he's willing, I don't know that he can't block. He was asked to be the go-to receiver at Purdue, not the guy who stays in & helps his OL block. I outlined a lot of current, multi-dimensional TE's with similar "bulk" to Keller. Now he's either a willing student or he is not. He claims he is, but they all say that at this point. If he can't block at all, it won't be because of his size. He's gonna have to learn to block but I doubt he is going to be used as a traditional TE. Franks is a good blocker and Baker is pretty good. The Jets will teach him blocking schemes just like they have to with a lot of guys just coming into the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 Baker is not "pretty good" as a blocker. He's better than he was, but what he was as a blocker is barely above what Keller is now: nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drago Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 Approx numbers Chad to Baker 13 receptions for 135 Yards Kellen to Baker 28 receptions for 275 yards I never thought Chad would be brought up as a candidate for a starter anymore, if for no other reason than the point you just brought up. Who in their right mind drafts a TE in the first round for a QB that never uses a TE? Makes no sense to me. Shows what the Jets' fans know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 I never thought Chad would be brought up as a candidate for a starter anymore, if for no other reason than the point you just brought up. Who in their right mind drafts a TE in the first round for a QB that never uses a TE? Makes no sense to me. Shows what the Jets' fans know. You don't get it. Chad never throws to the TE because they're always in blocking. Chad never had a great 16-game season because of injuries. Chad never passed for a lot of yards because he didn't have Randy Moss like Brady. Chad was a good QB in 2007 because of his 10-9 TD/INT ratio. Chad was rusty in 2006 because he didn't have a full off-season Chad was rusty (and then re-injured) in 2005 because he hadn't fully healed yet. Chad led the offense to 3 points in the div playoff game in 2004 because he was hurt. Chad was rusty in 2003 because he missed the first half of the season. You're an idiot. There are always excuses galore for Chad. He is never at fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drago Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 You don't get it. Chad never throws to the TE because they're always in blocking. Chad never had a great 16-game season because of injuries. Chad never passed for a lot of yards because he didn't have Randy Moss like Brady. Chad was a good QB in 2007 because of his 10-9 TD/INT ratio. Chad was rusty in 2006 because he didn't have a full off-season Chad was rusty (and then re-injured) in 2005 because he hadn't fully healed yet. Chad led the offense to 3 points in the div playoff game in 2004 because he was hurt. Chad was rusty in 2003 because he missed the first half of the season. You're an idiot. There are always excuses galore for Chad. He is never at fault. With every passing draft pick i was expecting to hear, "jets trade Chad Pennington to ____, for a _____". I'm stunned that he survived the entire draft as a Jet. I really thought Tangini would rid themselves of my former favorite Jet. This had better not be an issue come Training Camp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetfuel Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 With every passing draft pick i was expecting to hear, "jets trade Chad Pennington to ____, for a _____". I'm stunned that he survived the entire draft as a Jet. I really thought Tangini would rid themselves of my former favorite Jet. This had better not be an issue come Training Camp. The problem is that if they dump Chad right now, there is no one with any experience to be a back-up on the roster. I want Chad to start personally now that they have a real O-Line but they need to keep him AND Clemens for now. Even if Clemens starts, they need someone else at QB on the roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 The problem is that if they dump Chad right now, there is no one with any experience to be a back-up on the roster. I want Chad to start personally now that they have a real O-Line but they need to keep him AND Clemens for now. Even if Clemens starts, they need someone else at QB on the roster. I don't want Chad to start, but that's only because I want Clemens (or anyone) to beat him out for the job. At the start of a season, when the rest of the roster seems to have been addressed, you always want your best QB to start. When you kind of know you're going to suck no matter what (as much as you'd hate to admit it), then let a kid take his lumps. But barring the Jets drafting a QB with a realistic shot of seeing the field in 2008 (Ryan, Flacco, Brohm, Henne), there's no way we were dumping Chad during the draft. If Clemens wins the job outright in camp, and if another team with otherwise high hopes loses their starter in camp or in September, then maybe he could be moved for a 2009 pick. But no team that makes the kind of moves we made this off-season heads into camp with a QB depth chart of Clemens-[rookie]-Ratliff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drago Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 The problem is that if they dump Chad right now, there is no one with any experience to be a back-up on the roster. I want Chad to start personally now that they have a real O-Line but they need to keep him AND Clemens for now. Even if Clemens starts, they need someone else at QB on the roster. you realize chad can't play anymore? his arm is shot, he throws as many picks as he does TD's and that is against bad teams. We signed all these guys to give the keys to a washed up QB that has been given more than his fair share of chances. Sign Rodgers, sign quinn, chad is flat out done. He just cannot play the position anymore (if he ever could to begin with). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 you realize chad can't play anymore? his arm is shot, he throws as many picks as he does TD's and that is against bad teams. We signed all these guys to give the keys to a washed up QB that has been given more than his fair share of chances. Sign Rodgers, sign quinn, chad is flat out done. He just cannot play the position anymore (if he ever could to begin with). That's a bit much. He was a good QB once. But so were a number of guys who aren't good anymore. I have a tough time with the "Chad has shown us he can..." stuff. Joe Montana showed that he can win multiple superbowls. Right now I he'd have stiff competition to beat out Ainge for a roster spot. Sure, he's 51 years old now, but the reason is ultimately the same: whatever physical skills he had, that once made him better than others, have come and gone. Pennington, right now, is either a bottom-tier starter or a top-notch backup. Problem is he's paid like he's still a starter a team can look to with high hopes. In reality, his ceiling isn't winning games; it's not making critical mistakes (which he did plenty of in '07). But (and I've said this enough times) if Clemens can't beat out this stiff, then he shouldn't be in there either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irish Jet Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 In reality, his ceiling isn't winning games; it's not making critical mistakes (which he did plenty of in '07). I agree with this to an extent and that's why I feel he could succeed in 08. He will be in a much, much better situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 I agree with this to an extent and that's why I feel he could succeed in 08. He will be in a much, much better situation. I didn't say that's what Chad brings to the table right now. It isn't. That is his best-case-scenario upside. And that's pretty weak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.