PFSIKH Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 also was not much film on cassell either I would say teams have plenty on him now He throws a terrible deep ball too There is 16 games worth of film now. And it is against NFL teams. Cassel did struggle with the deep ball, but I remember a certain Tom Brady struggling with it as well early in his career. Just sayin'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai Jet Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 Which NFL team has Stafford or Sanchez beaten? How many passes against an NFL team has either attempted? How many NFL TCs, OTAs and off season workout programs have they been in? Cassel is a proven NFL commodity. You know what you have versus two QBs that are unproven and with question marks without every taken an NFL snap. Which player do you feel safer dropping 72 million on. You know the answer. I think Stafford will turn out to be a good NFL QB. Sanchez, on the other hand , will struggel. He's one QB who could have benefitted greatly by one more year in college. I have issues with him as a QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFSIKH Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 I think Stafford will turn out to be a good NFL QB. Sanchez, on the other hand , will struggel. He's one QB who could have benefitted greatly by one more year in college. I have issues with him as a QB. His knock is his decision making. It got better this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afosomf Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 They have 19 million to play with. They have some wiggle room. You are right and Cassel's destination will be determined by Brady's health. Which NFL team has Stafford or Sanchez beaten? How many passes against an NFL team has either attempted? How many NFL TCs, OTAs and off season workout programs have they been in? Who has been coached by Belichick? Cassel is a proven NFL commodity. You know what you have versus two QBs that are unproven and with question marks without every taken an NFL snap. Which player do you feel safer dropping 72 million on. You know the answer. Why? Are you honestly saying you saw an 11 win performance out of this team without Brady? Hell no. This kid can play. Maybe he will be a Scott mItchell or maybe he will be a decent guy for many more years. Last year's performance only reaffirms the reason Belichick spent a pick on him and has kept him around for four years. He can play irregardless of your or my opinion. Cassel did not beat 1 good team ... he was on a team that went 16-0 last year.. i know pats had some injuries...but the AFC east had cupcake schedules which masked everyone's records phins and jets included. Cassel is not worth a top pick..do not see it. Besides it is moot because april 25 is too early to tell if Brady will be on schedule Pats are capping him and will play him at least for 1st 4 games... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFSIKH Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 Cassel did not beat 1 good team ... he was on a team that went 16-0 last year.. i know pats had some injuries...but the AFC east had cupcake schedules which masked everyone's records phins and jets included. Cassel is not worth a top pick..do not see it. Besides it is moot because april 25 is too early to tell if Brady will be on schedule Pats are capping him and will play him at least for 1st 4 games... And? Rob Johnson cost the Bills a 1st and a 4th. Matt Schaub cost the Texans two seconds. Cassel has two and half times the passes both of them combined had at the time of their trade. If Tom Curran's report is true, then the Patriots have a pretty good idea where Brady is at and what they might need to do. I believe if Brady will be close to ready, then the Patriots will follow the same example as the Colts and let Brady work his rust out. If it looks like he will need to be PUP'd or IR'd, then the Patriots can work many different options to lessen the salary cap hit for this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afosomf Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 And? Rob Johnson cost the Bills a 1st and a 4th. Matt Schaub cost the Texans two seconds. Cassel has two and half times the passes both of them combined had at the time of their trade. If Tom Curran's report is true, then the Patriots have a pretty good idea where Brady is at and what they might need to do. I believe if Brady will be close to ready, then the Patriots will follow the same example as the Colts and let Brady work his rust out. If it looks like he will need to be PUP'd or IR'd, then the Patriots can work many different options to lessen the salary cap hit for this year. won't know in april, maybe they can trade in july/august, by that time KC and Detroit will have made their bed. Someone will also trade for anderson, VY will be cut and available too. i do not believe brady will be ready until october Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boynton Beach Jets Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 They have 19 million to play with. They have some wiggle room. So spending 15 million on a franchise QB will curtail that $19 million shopping spree quite a bit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FF2 Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 TAre the Pats doing Cassell a disservice by franchise tagging him? Who cares? It's not their job to worry about Cassell's career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 Something I havent seen mentioned is that fact that neither of the top flight QBs are Snrs. in the years draft. Historically that hasnt worked out especially right away. And the 2 rookie this year came out as Snrs. Im not sold on his talent. But he has got to be intriguing to some teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFSIKH Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 So spending 15 million on a franchise QB will curtail that $19 million shopping spree quite a bit It is not like they are big players in FA. won't know in april, maybe they can trade in july/august, by that time KC and Detroit will have made their bed. Someone will also trade for anderson, VY will be cut and available too. i do not believe brady will be ready until october Why? Are you a doctor? The reported needed surgery is to correct 'looseness' in the ligaments of his knee. In two months, he is either on pace to be in TC or he is not. The typical recovery time is 6-9 months. Clearance is given at 6 months to play contact sports. Even going by Curran's report (late December) he is on pace for a 9 month recovery. The draft will put him half way through it. Again, the team will know by then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECURB Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 $15M to carry a clipboard perhaps might be the best job in the world i will apply for 1/2 the salary:D He has to do all the work... if not more than Brady does... and gets no glory on gameday... The whole carry a clipboard thing is so far from true... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 I disagree. I think his best move is to hold out as long as he can before signing the tender and forcing the Pats to trade him, even if they have to accept a second or worse. If they have the tag on him, the money is tied up until he is traded. If he can stay untraded and unlocked through the FA period, the more desperate the Pats get to move him. He would sign that immediately so he has a 1 year $14M contract coming to him guaranteed. If he doesn't sign it and the Pats rescind the franchise tag before he signs it, he will still catch on with someone but won't get as much as if he already has that $14M as a starting point of negotiation. All the Pats would lose, in that scenario, is the ability to tag someone for 2010. But if Cassell signs the tender, he's on the books for the Pats until they trade him. And he could veto any trade that doesn't give him more than $20M guaranteed (since he's guaranteed $14M for just the one year already). He's not in a situation like Abraham not wanting to sign the tag when we slapped it on him. He'd sign it in 5 minutes, if it took that long, unless he & his agent were suffering from severe brain damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afosomf Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 He would sign that immediately so he has a 1 year $14M contract coming to him guaranteed. If he doesn't sign it and the Pats rescind the franchise tag before he signs it, he will still catch on with someone but won't get as much as if he already has that $14M as a starting point of negotiation. All the Pats would lose, in that scenario, is the ability to tag someone for 2010. But if Cassell signs the tender, he's on the books for the Pats until they trade him. And he could veto any trade that doesn't give him more than $20M guaranteed (since he's guaranteed $14M for just the one year already). He's not in a situation like Abraham not wanting to sign the tag when we slapped it on him. He'd sign it in 5 minutes, if it took that long, unless he & his agent were suffering from severe brain damage. Aint that the truth!!!! How many teams are going to give him $20M+ guaranteed money and lose a #1 draft picks for a smoke screen artist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFSIKH Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 He would sign that immediately so he has a 1 year $14M contract coming to him guaranteed. If he doesn't sign it and the Pats rescind the franchise tag before he signs it, he will still catch on with someone but won't get as much as if he already has that $14M as a starting point of negotiation. All the Pats would lose, in that scenario, is the ability to tag someone for 2010. But if Cassell signs the tender, he's on the books for the Pats until they trade him. And he could veto any trade that doesn't give him more than $20M guaranteed (since he's guaranteed $14M for just the one year already). He's not in a situation like Abraham not wanting to sign the tag when we slapped it on him. He'd sign it in 5 minutes, if it took that long, unless he & his agent were suffering from severe brain damage. If he signs it immediately he loses his ability to pick an choose where he wants to go. The Patriots can then trade him, for example, to the Rai-duhs who have cap space available to swallow $14 million if they could not work a deal out with Cassel. If the Patriots intention is to trade him, then it is advantageous for Cassel, the Patriots and his future team to work out his extension and the trade because they can settle for less then two 1st round picks. Aint that the truth!!!! How many teams are going to give him $20M+ guaranteed money and lose a #1 draft picks for a smoke screen artist. What is your point? The Falcons used a #1 pick and gave Matt Ryan 72 million dollars. $34.75 million of which is guaranteed. This was before he even attempted a pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 If he signs it immediately he loses his ability to pick an choose where he wants to go. The Patriots can then trade him, for example, to the Rai-duhs who have cap space available to swallow $14 million if they could not work a deal out with Cassel. If the Patriots intention is to trade him, then it is advantageous for Cassel, the Patriots and his future team to work out his extension and the trade because they can settle for less then two 1st round picks. See I don't agree there. If he doesn't sign the franchise contract, he's guaranteed nothing. Other teams can find their QB's through non-franchised FA's or the draft or other trades. Cassell could be left with nothing and then the Pats cut him after all the "good" opportunities have dried up and/or after teams have busted their cap-space nut. If he signs it, he's guaranteed $14M for this year alone. Having $14M guaranteed from the Pats, if they don't want him for the season, guarantees that he'll go where he wants. He can always say, "Fine. Go ahead and try to trade me to someplace I don't want to go like to the Raiders. But I'm not signing a long-term contract with them and there's nothing you can do to force me into that." In that case, the Raiders would back out of any trade. I take for granted that the ability to reach a long-term deal with Cassell will be a condition of any team trading with New England. Absent that, the trade won't happen. Summary: he cannot get "screwed" into going to NE. His worst-case scenario is getting $14M from NE for one season, sitting on the bench, and then getting his UFA walking papers a year later. That's not such a bad deal as an upside, let alone a downside. What is your point? The Falcons used a #1 pick and gave Matt Ryan 72 million dollars. $34.75 million of which is guaranteed. This was before he even attempted a pass. You know as well as anyone the pie in the sky views teams have of the top rated draft picks. Through trading up/down and the contracts they get, they all treat these players as though all-pro/HOF status is a mere formality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donboyO Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 Jackson and those nobodies in Tampa aren't exactly great deep ballers either....what's your point? Tavaris is not getting $20M guaranteed is he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GangGreen08 Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 I honestly dont think that cassel would have the same success anywhwere else. He was coached by Bill Bellicheck who i hate to say is probably one of the best coaches ever and the offense was already set with moss and wes welker who both had 1,000 yard seasons the past 2 years. If i were any GM i wouldnt be willing to give any more than a 2nd rounder or a couple 2nd or 3rd string guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garb Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 Casell will be franchised and traded for better than Jets fans hope for. Deal with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted January 26, 2009 Author Share Posted January 26, 2009 If he signs it immediately he loses his ability to pick an choose where he wants to go. The Patriots can then trade him, for example, to the Rai-duhs who have cap space available to swallow $14 million if they could not work a deal out with Cassel. If the Patriots intention is to trade him, then it is advantageous for Cassel, the Patriots and his future team to work out his extension and the trade because they can settle for less then two 1st round picks. What is your point? The Falcons used a #1 pick and gave Matt Ryan 72 million dollars. $34.75 million of which is guaranteed. This was before he even attempted a pass. Prior to throwing a pass in the NFL, Ryan had a much bigger perceived upside than Cassell has currently. Forget about his accomplishments, the entire league now knows Cassell's weaknesses. Nobody is going to forego a legit top 5 QB for Cassell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donboyO Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 Casell will be franchised and traded for better than Jets fans hope for. Deal with it. you the nurse behind the scenes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFSIKH Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 See I don't agree there. If he doesn't sign the franchise contract, he's guaranteed nothing. Other teams can find their QB's through non-franchised FA's or the draft or other trades. Cassell could be left with nothing and then the Pats cut him after all the "good" opportunities have dried up and/or after teams have busted their cap-space nut. If he signs it, he's guaranteed $14M for this year alone. Having $14M guaranteed from the Pats, if they don't want him for the season, guarantees that he'll go where he wants. He can always say, "Fine. Go ahead and try to trade me to someplace I don't want to go like to the Raiders. But I'm not signing a long-term contract with them and there's nothing you can do to force me into that." In that case, the Raiders would back out of any trade. I take for granted that the ability to reach a long-term deal with Cassell will be a condition of any team trading with New England. Absent that, the trade won't happen. Summary: he cannot get "screwed" into going to NE. His worst-case scenario is getting $14M from NE for one season, sitting on the bench, and then getting his UFA walking papers a year later. That's not such a bad deal as an upside, let alone a downside. I get your point and do not necessarily disagree with it. I think there is a little more to that process then just signing it. If Cassel is tagged and Patriots have not said anything to him, then I would tell him to sign it if I was his agent. If the Patriots came forward and talked to him about rough parameters of what they want in return and to go look for a deal, I might tell him wait for the reason I gave. Prior to throwing a pass in the NFL, Ryan had a much bigger perceived upside than Cassell has currently. Forget about his accomplishments, the entire league now knows Cassell's weaknesses. Nobody is going to forego a legit top 5 QB for Cassell. As did Russell in Oakland, Carr in Houston, Lienart in Zona and many other QBs that have turned into crap in the pro. Again, there is no legit QB being drafted. There is potential. You do know what Cassel can and cannot do. You are not hoping he can do certain things, you know he can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FF2 Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 Prior to throwing a pass in the NFL, Ryan had a much bigger perceived upside than Cassell has currently. Forget about his accomplishments, the entire league now knows Cassell's weaknesses. Nobody is going to forego a legit top 5 QB for Cassell. BALONEY. Paying top 5 money for a QB is ALWAYS a risk. Half the world thought Ryan was going to be a bust. The whole league knows Cassell can play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted January 26, 2009 Author Share Posted January 26, 2009 [quote name='FF2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 The whole league knows he can play in an all-world offense. What Cassell did in New England does not translate to success in Detroit. What are you talking about??? The Lions have Calvin Johnson and Kevin Smith. Cassell would be probowl bound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FF2 Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 The whole league knows he can play in an all-world offense. What Cassell did in New England does not translate to success in Detroit. But I'm SURE a rookie QB does!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garb Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 The whole league knows he can play in an all-world offense. What Cassell did in New England does not translate to success in Detroit. ....but will either of the two top QB prospects in this years draft be successful in Detroit? It's a crap shoot either way - but you've actually SEEN Cassel play - and grow (by leaps and bounds, btw) in the NFL this past season. Plus, Cassel is still YOUNG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 Casell will be franchised and traded for better than Jets fans hope for. Deal with it. Well that's easy. Jet fans hope you get nothing. There's a lot of tape of Matt to watch, and interested teams will pour over it. What you've got is a QB who won 11 games with a team that won 16 the year before, throwing to Randy Moss and Wes Welker (seriously?), with the benefit of Bill Belichick (who once served as HC/QB coach for Brady) directing the scene. Take him out of that cocoon, and what do you have? That'll be the question teams'll have to answer. I get your point and do not necessarily disagree with it. I think there is a little more to that process then just signing it. If Cassel is tagged and Patriots have not said anything to him, then I would tell him to sign it if I was his agent. If the Patriots came forward and talked to him about rough parameters of what they want in return and to go look for a deal, I might tell him wait for the reason I gave. Well, everybody knows that tampering goes on in this league. You can bet that the Pats have an idea of what teams might be willing to give up in a trade, and Cassel's team has an idea of what they're willing to pay. They may also have an idea about teams interested in Cassel as a FA, but not for a high pick. Before the tag's applied, as Cassel's agent, I'd be telling the Pats that my client's ready to sign it. If they still insisted on using it, I'd follow thru. Why should he do the Pats any favors and wait? He doesn't get anything extra by getting tagged, all that does is give the Pats a chance to get something. It does the opposite for Cassel, strictly limiting his suitors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted January 26, 2009 Author Share Posted January 26, 2009 ....but will either of the two top QB prospects in this years draft be successful in Detroit? It's a crap shoot either way - but you've actually SEEN Cassel play - and grow (by leaps and bounds, btw) in the NFL this past season. Plus, Cassel is still YOUNG. Stop it already. You are not getting the number one overall pick for Matt Cassell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted January 26, 2009 Author Share Posted January 26, 2009 What are you talking about??? The Lions have Calvin Johnson and Kevin Smith. Cassell would be probowl bound. Shut up, you're supposed to be MY bitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donboyO Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 Well that's easy. Jet fans hope you get nothing. There's a lot of tape of Matt to watch, and interested teams will pour over it. What you've got is a QB who won 11 games with a team that won 16 the year before, throwing to Randy Moss and Wes Welker (seriously?), with the benefit of Bill Belichick (who once served as HC/QB coach for Brady) directing the scene. Take him out of that cocoon, and what do you have? That'll be the question teams'll have to answer. Well, everybody knows that tampering goes on in this league. You can bet that the Pats have an idea of what teams might be willing to give up in a trade, and Cassel's team has an idea of what they're willing to pay. They may also have an idea about teams interested in Cassel as a FA, but not for a high pick. Before the tag's applied, as Cassel's agent, I'd be telling the Pats that my client's ready to sign it. If they still insisted on using it, I'd follow thru. Why should he do the Pats any favors and wait? He doesn't get anything extra by getting tagged, all that does is give the Pats a chance to get something. It does the opposite for Cassel, strictly limiting his suitors. good post his agent should be telling pats..that he welcomes franchise tag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFSIKH Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 Well, everybody knows that tampering goes on in this league. You can bet that the Pats have an idea of what teams might be willing to give up in a trade, and Cassel's team has an idea of what they're willing to pay. They may also have an idea about teams interested in Cassel as a FA, but not for a high pick. Before the tag's applied, as Cassel's agent, I'd be telling the Pats that my client's ready to sign it. If they still insisted on using it, I'd follow thru. Why should he do the Pats any favors and wait? He doesn't get anything extra by getting tagged, all that does is give the Pats a chance to get something. It does the opposite for Cassel, strictly limiting his suitors. Um, they gave him a chance to have an NFL career by drafting him after throwing only 35 passes in college and making him rich beyond what he could imagine after sitting on the USC bench for 4-5 years. If he signs the franchise, he gives up some of his freedom. He can no longer choose a place to go. He can play hard ball and make it difficult to trade him, but a team could always trade for him. I understand the point about getting 14 million. As you mentioned, if the sides are talking then Cassel knows what the Patriots intentions are and/or what they might want in return.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 this will all get worked out where cassell takes a 3 year deal with escalators for "starter money" they will keep both Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
124 Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 The mighty Casselhoff will roam free, but not until 2010. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatriotReign37 Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 Well that's easy. Jet fans hope you get nothing. There's a lot of tape of Matt to watch, and interested teams will pour over it. What you've got is a QB who won 11 games with a team that won 16 the year before, throwing to Randy Moss and Wes Welker (seriously?), with the benefit of Bill Belichick (who once served as HC/QB coach for Brady) directing the scene. Take him out of that cocoon, and what do you have? That'll be the question teams'll have to answer. The same can be said for Sanchez. Carroll is running one of the best programs in the country. USC is solid top to bottom. Take Sanchez away from a team like USC and what will you have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 The same can be said for Sanchez. Carroll is running one of the best programs in the country. USC is solid top to bottom. Take Sanchez away from a team like USC and what will you have? Matt Leinart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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