JN Mafia Thread: Superheroes Unite!

[ZachEY]

It's far from being that cut and dry. You've got 20 names on your no vote list. There are less than 20 innocent players in this game. The mafia can simply claim or hint at a character who isn't actually in the game. And that's not taking into account recruitment or solo winners or any other factor from a less than straigtforward game

Scum doesn't know who isn't in the game, so they risk a counterclaim.

[JustInFudge]

So are you seeing them as a lovers-type pairing then? Because I'm assuming a bickering requirement means they'd have to know who to bicker with. Unless you think JVoR might have assigned a post restriction like that without giving away alignment.

I'm not sure what to make of their exchange overall. Between Crusher misreading and Smashmouth contradicting himself, I don't know if we're looking at scummy behavior or what. Crusher tends to fish around early on the first day, and EY said Smashmouth is usually "erratic" ...

For now, though, I'm unvoting: Klecko. He's back, and while I'd still like to hear more from him since I haven't been in a game with him before ... it seems like there's more information to go on with some other people. Going to reread.

I have no clue. Maybe. Or maybe they are just townies that are suppossed to bicker to keep the game going. Didnt JVOR say something about that or maybe the are lovers and if they survive they win the game. Who knows? Im just talking out loud to try and gain some information.

If this doesn't start picking up activity soon, i'm going to establish a deadline. Thoughts?

Yes. You should, sooner rather then later or this game is going to go forever.

I think I said it pages ago, there's no way 11 people form a consensus.

And its not going to get any easier. 10 is still a high number.

[ZachEY]

And its not going to get any easier. 10 is still a high number.

I'd be surprised if there wasn't a little more carnage tonight. Honestly, we can only hope... This game will never end.

[Jets Voice of Reason]

Deadline is Wednesday at 11:30 PM.

Lynch requirement remains 11 votes. We've played large games before, it's not unheard of or unreasonable imo. Day 2 should begin by Friday sometime.

[ZachEY]

Deadline is Wednesday at 11:30 PM.

Lynch requirement remains 11 votes. We've played large games before, it's not unheard of or unreasonable imo. Day 2 should begin by Friday sometime.

We've never had more than 17, I think.

1 of 2 things happens... Random Lynch, or a late bandwagon push to avoid the random lynch.

[ZachEY]

With that said, unvote

I know I'll look bad by saying this, but we need to narrow our focus if we want to avoid the random lynch, and there's really no sense voting for someone that isn't going to be the guy to go.

My next top suspect is SMC, and I'll probably concentrate on him, Smashmouth, and Sharrow, as they are the only people with multiple votes.

I don't like the reasoning on Sharrow, so I'm thinking SMC or Smash right now.

[CTM]

Deadline is Wednesday at 11:30 PM.

Lynch requirement remains 11 votes. We've played large games before, it's not unheard of or unreasonable imo. Day 2 should begin by Friday sometime.

Yeah.. you can't change the lynch requirement. So we've got 2 days..

With the amount of non active players we have, and tomorrow which will be spent arguing about how crappy the Jets played, it's quickly going to become time to coalesce around a handful of players...

[Dan.]

We've never had more than 17, I think.

1 of 2 things happens... Random Lynch, or a late bandwagon push to avoid the random lynch.

The JI/JN game had 19, and CTM's "All in the Family" had 18, I believe. You're right this is the biggest though, and we really need everyone contributing.

I'm still liking SMC and Sharrow. So I'll vote: Sharrow for excessive back-and-forth with Arsis over who his character is, then trying to downplay his actions. At least others have tried explaining why they think role fishing could be okay. I'm wondering if it's likely the villains weren't warned about role reveals like the rest of us were (because they didn't need to be).

[Doggin94it]

I can't believe I'm saying this, but I think smash has a good case on Crusher. Maybe its just that I'm reading this straight through now that I'm back, rather than piecemeal as its posted, but Crushers posts read wild, desperate and overheated, especially considering there's only one vote on him. At best, the vote for smash was careless, but it smells worse than that.

unvote

Vote: Crusher

I also do find the number of defenders Sharrow picked up interesting, but I think Crush's lynch is the right way to go.

[Smashmouth]

I think I said it pages ago, there's no way 11 people form a consensus.

EY you sure we never played with 20 on JI ? I thought we did

[Smashmouth]

BTW guys we need a MOD to unstick the signup thread and stick this one .

[slats]

BTW guys we need a MOD to unstick the signup thread and stick this one .

+1

I think the best of a handful of weak cases out there is the one against Sharrow. I'm gonna stick with my gut feeling that character phishing has more benefits for scum than town, and the fact that he's phishing around a n00b just compounds it in my eyes.

vote: Sharrow

[The Crusher]

I can't believe I'm saying this, but I think smash has a good case on Crusher. Maybe its just that I'm reading this straight through now that I'm back, rather than piecemeal as its posted, but Crushers posts read wild, desperate and overheated, especially considering there's only one vote on him. At best, the vote for smash was careless, but it smells worse than that.

unvote

Vote: Crusher

I also do find the number of defenders Sharrow picked up interesting, but I think Crush's lynch is the right way to go.

No more overheated than usual. You know i get excited when someone votes me and Im innocent. You can go back to the alt game and the same thing happen when Chan voted me. Funny you think I got excited but Smash voted me immediately after I voted him. I misread a qoute and he went off, and you think it would normal for me to back down? Maybe slats should have recommended you going back and readin some games. Crusher never back downs. Not here and not at any buffet when someone steps in front of me.

[Bleedin Green]

There are a few interesting cases out there, but I don't found any of them to be particularly convincing. The sloppiness of Crusher's vote certainly is interesting, but beyond that I'm not overly convinced. Perhaps I have to go back and reread, but I'm not sure I quite get the level of Sharrow's suspicion. So as I said before, of the things out there, the one I find most interesting is SMC. At the very least, I'd like to see a little more heat go on him. It was a pretty good observation made against him and he did his best to try to just brush it off, but that was really a continuation of his out-of-character behavior. So for now I'll go with:

Vote: SMC

[Smashmouth]

Im not sure I understand the SMC vote based on previous tendencies he has displayed.

In saying that, you guys have to remember some of us were not in the games you describe. Maybe if you provide a link it will help your case a bit. Ive seen mention of lancemehl and I have no idea wtf that means in relation to JI Mafia. I also seen mention of other games and characters that I have no idea what they mean either. Ive looked for other JI mafia games and did not find any maybe in searching wrong but I would like to read some of them to try and sort out these tendincies you guys are refering too.

[Jets Voice of Reason]

VOTE COUNT

Smashmouth (3) Verbal, Crusher, Pac

SMC (3) JiF, CTM, Bleedin'

Sharrow (3) Norway, Dan X, slats

Crusher (2) Smashmouth, Doggin

Klecko (1) Arsis

Arsis (1) Norway

CTM (1) Sharrow

With 20 players, it takes 11 to lynch. Deadline is Wednesday at 11:30 PM.

I have a ****load to do at work today, so feel free to update the vote count if I'm taking too long.

[SMC]

This is a great point. He does seem to be trying to stay friendly with everyone, backing off of his "Axis of Evil" theory in favor of praising a wider circle ...

Friendly? Perhaps. It makes no sense to make enemies now because where does that lead? You remember how Pac and JiF went at it for a couple of game days which distracted them and the other players.

In fact, JiF's temper got the best of him so much that he ignored all other signs and was hell bent on getting Pac (Lefty) lynched. He was "convinced" Pac was scum, but it was simply game-hatred. Because of that, JiF was easily manipulated and only later was he able to clear his mind and win the game.

In other words, early enemies does no one any good except the scum because they can exploit that.

As for backing off the Axis, the pool is too large now with top shelf players. Most all of us in this game could fall into the Axis qualification EXCEPT for the notion of manipulation. I believe the Vulcan mind tricks of the likes of EY, CTM, Doggin, and others won't work.

[JustInFudge]

Friendly? Perhaps. It makes no sense to make enemies now because where does that lead? You remember how Pac and JiF went at it for a couple of game days which distracted them and the other players.

In fact, JiF's temper got the best of him so much that he ignored all other signs and was hell bent on getting Pac (Lefty) lynched. He was "convinced" Pac was scum, but it was simply game-hatred. Because of that, JiF was easily manipulated and only later was he able to clear his mind and win the game.

In other words, early enemies does no one any good except the scum because they can exploit that.

As for backing off the Axis, the pool is too large now with top shelf players. Most all of us in this game could fall into the Axis qualification EXCEPT for the notion of manipulation. I believe the Vulcan mind tricks of the likes of EY, CTM, Doggin, and others won't work.

Yep. I was totally blinded. I had never let that happen before in a mafia game, but what can I say, we all know what kind of dip**** Pac can be.

My issue with you is that you are putting a theory into play that can only help a team with strong tells. Thats the best I've got. In a game that takes 11 to vote on day 1, why wouldnt we use tendencies to cast a vote? Not to mention, I know how you are when you are this helpfull and brushing off pressure (which you are definitely doing) and its typically bad for the town.

I dont see the Sharow thing. If I need to switch my vote to avoid random lynch, it would unfortunately have to go on my muffin top. Crusher has played poorly and sloopy.

[ZachEY]

Vote SMC.

On feel.

[ZachEY]

Im not sure I understand the SMC vote based on previous tendencies he has displayed.

In saying that, you guys have to remember some of us were not in the games you describe. Maybe if you provide a link it will help your case a bit. Ive seen mention of lancemehl and I have no idea wtf that means in relation to JI Mafia. I also seen mention of other games and characters that I have no idea what they mean either. Ive looked for other JI mafia games and did not find any maybe in searching wrong but I would like to read some of them to try and sort out these tendincies you guys are refering too.

Could you please provide a summary of your case on Crusher. All that back and forth is dizzying, just the facts... Thx.

[Doggin94it]

Could you please provide a summary of your case on Crusher. All that back and forth is dizzying, just the facts... Thx.

I'll do it, because I think it's fairly compelling.

1) I vote Kleck. So do a bunch of people, including Smash.

2) I move to Sharrow, pointing out his role fishing

3) Smash quotes my post, says "and he called me gay!" and votes Sharrow as well. http://www.jetnation.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1352375&postcount=205

4) Crusher votes Smash, saying he's "looking for an easy out in Klecko." http://www.jetnation.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1352896&postcount=236 Oddly enough, just a bit earlier, Crusher had this to say about Smash:

Went back and took a look at everything and nothing really jumps out at me. . . .

Smash seems to be enjoying himself ****ing around and I will pay more attention as time go's on.

5) Smash points out his vote is on Sharrow, not Klecko, and wonders if Crusher was really paying attention http://www.jetnation.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1352904&postcount=238. He later unvotes and votes Crusher.

6) Crusher says Smash was really the only player he's been looking at.

7) Smash asks if Crusher was really looking at him that hard, why would he vote based on "looking for an easy out in Kleck" when Smash was actually voting for Sharrow.

8) Crusher says "oh, you voted sharrow because he called you gay, that didn't make me change my mind"

Then you have the back and forth over whether crush could really have thought that was the reason for Smash's vote, which - tbh - I just don't believe Crusher on at all.

Bottom line - Crusher put up a weak initial vote and defended it with more and more far fetched claims. That's good enough for a day 1 vote, for me.

[SMC]

Yep. I was totally blinded. I had never let that happen before in a mafia game, but what can I say, we all know what kind of dip**** Pac can be.

My issue with you is that you are putting a theory into play that can only help a team with strong tells. Thats the best I've got. In a game that takes 11 to vote on day 1, why wouldnt we use tendencies to cast a vote? Not to mention, I know how you are when you are this helpfull and brushing off pressure (which you are definitely doing) and its typically bad for the town.

I dont see the Sharow thing. If I need to switch my vote to avoid random lynch, it would unfortunately have to go on my muffin top. Crusher has played poorly and sloopy.

I don't believe that there are players with "strong tells" in this game, that's the point. I had fallen victim to the strong tell argument in the All in the Family game in thinking that Bleedin had a tell (that's why, as vigilante, I NK'd him). I was wrong.

I don't see the Sharrow thing either.

The random lynch is problematic in later game days with fewer number of players. Right now, there is only a 5% chance being killed in a random lynch. BUT, with 5 mafia players there is a 25% chance at the random lynch killing mafia. If the town has 2 or 3 power roles, there's a 15% chance (at most) that a town power role will be random lynched. In other words:

Random Lynch on Day 1

5% chance you (meaning any player) gets lynched.

15% town power role gets lynched

25% mafia gets lynched

Thus, based on those odds a random lynch is actually advantagous to the town, so I don't fear it. I haven't cast my vote yet, but I wouldn't mind looking at the inactives. Let's see if we can cut dead weight.

[ZachEY]

I'll do it, because I think it's fairly compelling.

1) I vote Kleck. So do a bunch of people, including Smash.

2) I move to Sharrow, pointing out his role fishing

3) Smash quotes my post, says "and he called me gay!" and votes Sharrow as well. http://www.jetnation.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1352375&postcount=205

4) Crusher votes Smash, saying he's "looking for an easy out in Klecko." http://www.jetnation.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1352896&postcount=236 Oddly enough, just a bit earlier, Crusher had this to say about Smash:

5) Smash points out his vote is on Sharrow, not Klecko, and wonders if Crusher was really paying attention http://www.jetnation.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1352904&postcount=238. He later unvotes and votes Crusher.

6) Crusher says Smash was really the only player he's been looking at.

7) Smash asks if Crusher was really looking at him that hard, why would he vote based on "looking for an easy out in Kleck" when Smash was actually voting for Sharrow.

8) Crusher says "oh, you voted sharrow because he called you gay, that didn't make me change my mind"

Then you have the back and forth over whether crush could really have thought that was the reason for Smash's vote, which - tbh - I just don't believe Crusher on at all.

Bottom line - Crusher put up a weak initial vote and defended it with more and more far fetched claims. That's good enough for a day 1 vote, for me.

Ok, Thanks.

This is probably the strongest case, but I have the strongest feel on SMC.

The question I have right now is why did Crusher protect Klecko? Was it just to make a case on smash from anything... Or, do you think Crusher and Klecko are in cahoots? If so, someone hide the ham. And also if so, it's about the worst play I've ever seen, Kleck is new but not a fool, and Crush is experienced and I don't think would make a move like that.

Do you have thoughts on SMC?

[ZachEY]

Random Lynch on Day 1

5% chance you (meaning any player) gets lynched.

15% town power role gets lynched

25% mafia gets lynched

Thus, based on those odds a random lynch is actually advantagous to the town, so I don't fear it. I haven't cast my vote yet, but I wouldn't mind looking at the inactives. Let's see if we can cut dead weight.

I don't agree with this at all.

JVOR has eluded to different powers and surprises in this game. I very much doubt we're dealing with just 3 power players. Doc/Cop/Vig?

[SMC]

I don't agree with this at all.

JVOR has eluded to different powers and surprises in this game. I very much doubt we're dealing with just 3 power players. Doc/Cop/Vig?

Are there more town power roles than mafia in your opinion?

I would think not because then that would be too advantageous to the town.

Either way, there are greater odds in random lynching mafia than town power.

Regardless, we still have time for a vote. But, again, I don't "fear" the random lynch as I would later in the game where the odds are against the town.

[Dan.]

Are there more town power roles than mafia in your opinion?

I would think not because then that would be too advantageous to the town.

Either way, there are greater odds in random lynching mafia than town power.

Regardless, we still have time for a vote. But, again, I don't "fear" the random lynch as I would later in the game where the odds are against the town.

JVoR said there'd be 20 souped up characters in this game. That implies we all have some sort of power and could really stand to lose something beneficial to the town through a random lynch. A random lynch also means we don't get to look at voting patterns in relation to someone's alignment.

[ZachEY]

Are there more town power roles than mafia in your opinion?

I would think not because then that would be too advantageous to the town.

Either way, there are greater odds in random lynching mafia than town power.

Regardless, we still have time for a vote. But, again, I don't "fear" the random lynch as I would later in the game where the odds are against the town.

Yes. I think there are more town power roles than mafia. I also would assume there are town roles out there that can worth both ways... Like a Vig... Roleblocker could help either side too... could be some kind of mason group where they can communicate but killing one kills both... could be bomb type characters...

[SMC]

Yes. I think there are more town power roles than mafia. I also would assume there are town roles out there that can worth both ways... Like a Vig... Roleblocker could help either side too... could be some kind of mason group where they can communicate but killing one kills both... could be bomb type characters...

If there are more town power roles than mafia, don't you think that would put the mafia at a distinct disadvantage and make an unbalanced game?

[SMC]

JVoR said there'd be 20 souped up characters in this game. That implies we all have some sort of power and could really stand to lose something beneficial to the town through a random lynch. A random lynch also means we don't get to look at voting patterns in relation to someone's alignment.

I read that all the roles are super heroes/villians with "super powers" that have no direct bearing on the game. Similar to when Doggin did his Jets vs. Rival Superstars game. Revis, in the player description, was listed as the Jets best player who had to use his superior skill to find rival players but that was merely role flavoring. Revis didn't have any special ability.

Day 1 voting "patterns" are specious.

That said, I don't fear a random lynch but I'm not advocating for it. It's not the end of the world if it happens in other words.

[ZachEY]

If there are more town power roles than mafia, don't you think that would put the mafia at a distinct disadvantage and make an unbalanced game?

not if, as I said, some roles can go either way. I wouldn't be surprised if scum has other powers too. Maybe a rolefinder?

[ZachEY]

I read that all the roles are super heroes/villians with "super powers" that have no direct bearing on the game. Similar to when Doggin did his Jets vs. Rival Superstars game. Revis, in the player description, was listed as the Jets best player who had to use his superior skill to find rival players but that was merely role flavoring. Revis didn't have any special ability.

Day 1 voting "patterns" are specious.

That said, I don't fear a random lynch but I'm not advocating for it. It's not the end of the world if it happens in other words.

Well, you're either useless town, scum, playing dumb, or lying.

Either way, I guess I'm ok with my vote.

[ZachEY]

By the way, rather than a random lynch, if there are town members out there who are not 'suped up', then I would say they should sacrifice themselves if we can't reach a consensus.

[SMC]

Well, you're either useless town, scum, playing dumb, or lying.

Either way, I guess I'm ok with my vote.

LOL. I disagree with your numbers.

If the role can go either way, then it's only have beneficial to the town at best. Thus, the numbers are still in the town's favor as a random lynch.

[CTM]

I don't believe that there are players with "strong tells" in this game, that's the point. I had fallen victim to the strong tell argument in the All in the Family game in thinking that Bleedin had a tell (that's why, as vigilante, I NK'd him). I was wrong.

I don't see the Sharrow thing either.

The random lynch is problematic in later game days with fewer number of players. Right now, there is only a 5% chance being killed in a random lynch. BUT, with 5 mafia players there is a 25% chance at the random lynch killing mafia. If the town has 2 or 3 power roles, there's a 15% chance (at most) that a town power role will be random lynched. In other words:

Random Lynch on Day 1

5% chance you (meaning any player) gets lynched.

15% town power role gets lynched

25% mafia gets lynched

Thus, based on those odds a random lynch is actually advantagous to the town, so I don't fear it. I haven't cast my vote yet, but I wouldn't mind looking at the inactives. Let's see if we can cut dead weight.

Are you really advocating a random lynch right now? I feel real good about my vote right now. This game was promised to have 20 souped up characters, why are you assuming there are 3 power roles???

[Doggin94it]

By the way, rather than a random lynch, if there are town members out there who are not 'suped up', then I would say they should sacrifice themselves if we can't reach a consensus.

The more important point is that a random lynch gets us no information at all. Random lynch is the worst of both worlds - a likely dead townie (just like a Day 1 lynch) with no useful information to make Day 2 any better than Day 1.