JN Mafia Thread: Superheroes Unite!

[ZachEY]

LOL. I disagree with your numbers.

If the role can go either way, then it's only have beneficial to the town at best. Thus, the numbers are still in the town's favor as a random lynch.

The numbers are in your favor because you've got votes. They're not in mine.

[SMC]

Are you really advocating a random lynch right now? I feel real good about my vote right now. This game was promised to have 20 souped up characters, why are you assuming there are 3 power roles???

No, I'm not advocating a random lynch. I'm saying it's not the end of the world.

Why am I assuming 3 power roles? Because unlike EY I don't think there are more town power roles than mafia. The mafia is down 15-5, the game would be far too unbalanced if the town had equal or more power roles than then total number of mafia. You know that.

[Dan.]

I read that all the roles are super heroes/villians with "super powers" that have no direct bearing on the game. Similar to when Doggin did his Jets vs. Rival Superstars game. Revis, in the player description, was listed as the Jets best player who had to use his superior skill to find rival players but that was merely role flavoring. Revis didn't have any special ability.

Day 1 voting "patterns" are specious.

That said, I don't fear a random lynch but I'm not advocating for it. It's not the end of the world if it happens in other words.

Sure, the Day 1 voting timeline doesn't give us much if that's all we're working with. The point is down the road it helps to have that information, and you're missing out on it through a random lynch.

I would be surprised if there were townies with no power whatsoever. I can believe there are some weaker than others, or as EY said powers that can work in the mafia's favor, but I don't think we're looking at a typical setup with JVoR's promise of souped up characters and some untraditional elements.

[SMC]

The more important point is that a random lynch gets us no information at all. Random lynch is the worst of both worlds - a likely dead townie (just like a Day 1 lynch) with no useful information to make Day 2 any better than Day 1.

And what "information" is gained by a speed lynch to avoid a random lynch? It's a panic move.

The odds are in favor of the town for a random lynch than a speed lynch to avoid the random on this first day.

[SMC]

Sure, the Day 1 voting timeline doesn't give us much if that's all we're working with. The point is down the road it helps to have that information, and you're missing out on it through a random lynch.

I would be surprised if there were townies with no power whatsoever. I can believe there are some weaker than others, or as EY said powers that can work in the mafia's favor, but I don't think we're looking at a typical setup with JVoR's promise of souped up characters and some untraditional elements.

I read it as role flavoring AND that traditional roles may have greater power than normal. I didn't read it that each player has a game useful power.

[CTM]

No, I'm not advocating a random lynch. I'm saying it's not the end of the world.

You posted 2 paragraphs and stats to indicate it was advantegous to the town early in the game. That's adovocating and now you are back tracking..

Why am I assuming 3 power roles? Because unlike EY I don't think there are more town power roles than mafia. The mafia is down 15-5, the game would be far too unbalanced if the town had equal or more power roles than then total number of mafia. You know that.

a fairly typical set up is 50% townie, 25% power, 25% mafia .. i can't believe you've never seen those percentages quotes before?

[ZachEY]

No, I'm not advocating a random lynch. I'm saying it's not the end of the world.

Why am I assuming 3 power roles? Because unlike EY I don't think there are more town power roles than mafia. The mafia is down 15-5, the game would be far too unbalanced if the town had equal or more power roles than then total number of mafia. You know that.

Scum still has the most valuable power of all... NK.

I wouldn't be surprised btw, if there were more than one death tonight.

[Dan.]

VOTE COUNT

SMC (4) JiF, CTM, Bleedin', EY

Smashmouth (3) Verbal, Crusher, Pac

Sharrow (3) Norway, Dan X, slats

Crusher (2) Smashmouth, Doggin

Klecko (1) Arsis

Arsis (1) Norway

CTM (1) Sharrow

With 20 players, it takes 11 to lynch. Deadline is Wednesday at 11:30 PM.

5 players not voting: LAOut, Irish Jet, Klecko, Barmacral, Shutout.

[Norway'sWaddlingMarmaloof]

Yep. I was totally blinded. I had never let that happen before in a mafia game, but what can I say, we all know what kind of dip**** Pac can be.

My issue with you is that you are putting a theory into play that can only help a team with strong tells. Thats the best I've got. In a game that takes 11 to vote on day 1, why wouldnt we use tendencies to cast a vote? Not to mention, I know how you are when you are this helpfull and brushing off pressure (which you are definitely doing) and its typically bad for the town.

I dont see the Sharow thing. If I need to switch my vote to avoid random lynch, it would unfortunately have to go on my muffin top. Crusher has played poorly and sloopy.

No reach around for you tonight! I have to admit the Sharrow case is solely built around role-fishing, so it's not very strong. SMC, after getting a little heat and then semi-endorsing the random vote is worrisome. And Crusher making a case on Smash based on his vote for Kleck, when he had actually voted for Sharrow, stinks also.

If we get close to the deadline, I could go SMC-Crusher.

[Norway'sWaddlingMarmaloof]

VOTE COUNT

SMC (4) JiF, CTM, Bleedin', EY

Smashmouth (3) Verbal, Crusher, Pac

Sharrow (3) Norway, Dan X, slats

Crusher (2) Smashmouth, Doggin

Klecko (1) Arsis

Arsis (1) Norway

CTM (1) Sharrow

With 20 players, it takes 11 to lynch. Deadline is Wednesday at 11:30 PM.

5 players not voting: LAOut, Irish Jet, Klecko, Barmacral, Shutout.

I no longer have a vote in on Arsis....

[CTM]

I'll do it, because I think it's fairly compelling.

1) I vote Kleck. So do a bunch of people, including Smash.

2) I move to Sharrow, pointing out his role fishing

3) Smash quotes my post, says "and he called me gay!" and votes Sharrow as well. http://www.jetnation.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1352375&postcount=205

4) Crusher votes Smash, saying he's "looking for an easy out in Klecko." http://www.jetnation.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1352896&postcount=236 Oddly enough, just a bit earlier, Crusher had this to say about Smash:

5) Smash points out his vote is on Sharrow, not Klecko, and wonders if Crusher was really paying attention http://www.jetnation.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1352904&postcount=238. He later unvotes and votes Crusher.

6) Crusher says Smash was really the only player he's been looking at.

7) Smash asks if Crusher was really looking at him that hard, why would he vote based on "looking for an easy out in Kleck" when Smash was actually voting for Sharrow.

8) Crusher says "oh, you voted sharrow because he called you gay, that didn't make me change my mind"

Then you have the back and forth over whether crush could really have thought that was the reason for Smash's vote, which - tbh - I just don't believe Crusher on at all.

Bottom line - Crusher put up a weak initial vote and defended it with more and more far fetched claims. That's good enough for a day 1 vote, for me.

This seems fairly compelling, but there's 0% chance I'm going to trust your possibly skewed flavor of the events.. I need to reread that trainwreck of a discussion this afternoon. From where I sat it seemed like baconbrain was voting Smashmouth based on his vote for Klecko, which is still valid even if Smash had jumped to the next wagon already. Everything that occured after that point was mind numbing

And tbh, I got caught up in the other game mistaking crushers deep fried ramblings for scumbaggery and ended up quick lynched because of it..

[SMC]

You posted 2 paragraphs and stats to indicate it was advantegous to the town early in the game. That's adovocating and now you are back tracking..

You want to call it advocating, then fine it's advocating. A point not worth debating since I'm correct in my numbers and you're not. A random lynch is statistically advantageous to the town over a speed lynch to avoid the random lynch.

a fairly typical set up is 50% townie, 25% power, 25% mafia .. i can't believe you've never seen those percentages quotes before?

EY's vanilla mafia game had 17 players:

5 mafia + SK (29%)

3 town power (doc, cop, DA) (17%)

Want to try again?

[The Crusher]

I'll do it, because I think it's fairly compelling.

1) I vote Kleck. So do a bunch of people, including Smash.

2) I move to Sharrow, pointing out his role fishing

3) Smash quotes my post, says "and he called me gay!" and votes Sharrow as well. http://www.jetnation.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1352375&postcount=205

4) Crusher votes Smash, saying he's "looking for an easy out in Klecko." http://www.jetnation.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1352896&postcount=236 Oddly enough, just a bit earlier, Crusher had this to say about Smash:

5) Smash points out his vote is on Sharrow, not Klecko, and wonders if Crusher was really paying attention http://www.jetnation.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1352904&postcount=238. He later unvotes and votes Crusher.

6) Crusher says Smash was really the only player he's been looking at.

7) Smash asks if Crusher was really looking at him that hard, why would he vote based on "looking for an easy out in Kleck" when Smash was actually voting for Sharrow.

8) Crusher says "oh, you voted sharrow because he called you gay, that didn't make me change my mind"

Then you have the back and forth over whether crush could really have thought that was the reason for Smash's vote, which - tbh - I just don't believe Crusher on at all.

Bottom line - Crusher put up a weak initial vote and defended it with more and more far fetched claims. That's good enough for a day 1 vote, for me.

Doggin I appreciate you trying to help me out but the thing is its not that complicated. I decided to hit smash up with a vote and see what happened. I have been paying attention to him the whole game. I just missed his quote of yours in the post he had for Sharrow. I only caught the gay vote thing. Then we went back and forth because I was surpirsed how he reacted. It was the only vote I had all game and I was scum hunting. His reaction made me get into with him, then I realize I screwed it up. Thats all thats here.

Sadly looking at it from a non-me view it does seem like the best case. Not best for the towns by no means, but the best case.

[CTM]

You want to call it advocating, then fine it's advocating. A point not worth debating since I'm correct in my numbers and you're not. A random lynch is statistically advantageous to the town over a speed lynch to avoid the random lynch.

no, it's not.

Especially considering a role reveal can occur to prevent a town power role from going down. Not to mention the votign history we'd have..

EY's vanilla mafia game had 17 players:

5 mafia + SK (29%)

3 town power (doc, cop, DA) (17%)

Want to try again?

u try again..

9 townies

4 scum

3 power roles

1 sk (who is dangerous to town and mafia alike)

In a standard game, the sk would be a vig and a townie removed for the a 50/25/25 set up

Roles:

9 - Kids, regular town folks with no special abilities and no ability to communicate via PM.

1 - Man-Child (doctor), this is that kid that went through puberty at age 9, he can defend himself, or one of the others during each night phase.

1 - Parent (cop), no different than a kid, but is smart enough to recognize the kids from the pedophiles. He is able to investigate a single player every night and get a result telling them if they are kid or pedophile.

3 - Pedophile (mafia), grown men posing as kids. They are able to communicate via PM to strategize, and every night

1 - Repeat Offender (Godfather), This Pedophile is a master of his craft. Upon investigation, he will come up as a Kid.

Special Roles

1 - Michael Jackson (serial killer), a rogue agent and dirty, dirty man. He is both kid, and Pedophile. He wants to love everyone. He wins when he's the only 1 left standing or if its only him and a single Pedophile left. Michael Jackson, like the pedophiles, is able to invite a single player over every night to a slumber party. Note: Jackson will come up as a kid when investigated by the parent but the Man-Child will be able to prevent the kid from going.

1 - Prosecutor (fbi), his primary goal is to stop Michael Jackson at all costs. Every night he can investigate for Jackson. Once he succeeds in locating and prosecuting Jackson, he can then use his powers to investigate pedophiles at night similar to the Parent.

[SMC]

EY's vanilla mafia game had 17 players:

5 mafia + SK (29%)

3 town power (doc, cop, DA) (17%)

Want to try again?

And, CTM, as a further example, there is Doggin's non-vanilla Border War game with 19 players. To start there were:

5 mafia + cult leader (26%)

4 town power (finder, healer, vigilante, village idiot) (21%).

The cult leader recruitment the numbers would grow in anti-town. I don't get where you get that 25%-25%.

[ZachEY]

SMC, I think your read on this game, 'suped up characters' being similar to Bleedin' Greens Darrelle Revis is so offensively bad, that it merits my vote.

JVOR has been talking for weeks about this game design, I refuse to believe that there's not more going on.

Also, it's his first time designing a game, the notion of balance is one you're taking for granted. It's possible the game is flawed, it's possible there are roles that work both ways, it's possible there's multiple NKers, a lot of things are possible, but right now, the only thing a random lynch does is let you off the hook and leave us all scratching our heads tomorrow of some crazy **** happens.

[Klecko73isGod]

Yep. I was totally blinded. I had never let that happen before in a mafia game, but what can I say, we all know what kind of dip**** Pac can be.

My issue with you is that you are putting a theory into play that can only help a team with strong tells. Thats the best I've got. In a game that takes 11 to vote on day 1, why wouldnt we use tendencies to cast a vote? Not to mention, I know how you are when you are this helpfull and brushing off pressure (which you are definitely doing) and its typically bad for the town.

I dont see the Sharow thing. If I need to switch my vote to avoid random lynch, it would unfortunately have to go on my muffin top. Crusher has played poorly and sloopy.

+1

I have a real question about a player who has a tell going out of his way to try to convince people not to look for tells.

Vote: SMC.

[Klecko73isGod]

+1

I have a real question about a player who has a tell going out of his way to try to convince people not to look for tells.

Vote: SMC.

Sorry, forgot to bold my vote:

Vote: SMC

[CTM]

And, CTM, as a further example, there is Doggin's non-vanilla Border War game with 19 players. To start there were:

5 mafia + cult leader (26%)

4 town power (finder, healer, vigilante, village idiot) (21%).

The cult leader recruitment the numbers would grow in anti-town. I don't get where you get that 25%-25%.

Dude.. when balancing the game a cult leader or SK detracts from both town and scum alike. They are a third entity, not added to the scum totals.. Standard game is to be around 50/25/25

[SMC]

u try again..

9 townies

4 scum

3 power roles

1 sk (who is dangerous to town and mafia alike)

In a standard game, the sk would be a vig and a townie removed for the a 50/25/25 set up

CTM = Math FAIL

4 scum (23%)

3 power roles (17%)

EY had 2 cops & 1 doc. In a standard game there would only be 1 cop and the extra power role would be the vig under your scenario. In that instance it still wouldn't be 50/25/25.

But lets use CTMath (is it similar to Klogic?). For 50/25/25 to work there would be a 16 player game (easy round number).

8 town

4 mafia

4 power

The problem is, what are the "standard" power roles that equal 4? There's the doc, the cop, but who else? Add the vigilante to equal 3. But who's the 4th? Guess what? There isn't any for the standard game.

Try again.

[SMC]

SMC, I think your read on this game, 'suped up characters' being similar to Bleedin' Greens Darrelle Revis is so offensively bad, that it merits my vote.

JVOR has been talking for weeks about this game design, I refuse to believe that there's not more going on.

Also, it's his first time designing a game, the notion of balance is one you're taking for granted. It's possible the game is flawed, it's possible there are roles that work both ways, it's possible there's multiple NKers, a lot of things are possible, but right now, the only thing a random lynch does is let you off the hook and leave us all scratching our heads tomorrow of some crazy **** happens.

If JVoR has been designing the game for weeks, you think he's going to have a game flaw? How does that make sense?

Also, the power roles likely have an extra power. I would guess that the cop has the power to do an extra investigation. Things of that nature.

Explain to me how a game of supers would work if every single player had a game-specific power?

What is your game specific power, EY, based on being a 'suped up characters'?

I can tell you right now that I don't have one.

[CTM]

CTM = Math FAIL

4 scum (23%)

3 power roles (17%)

EY had 2 cops & 1 doc. In a standard game there would only be 1 cop and the extra power role would be the vig under your scenario. In that instance it still wouldn't be 50/25/25.

But lets use CTMath (is it similar to Klogic?). For 50/25/25 to work there would be a 16 player game (easy round number).

8 town

4 mafia

4 power

The problem is, what are the "standard" power roles that equal 4? There's the doc, the cop, but who else? Add the vigilante to equal 3. But who's the 4th? Guess what? There isn't any for the standard game.

Try again.

Roleblocker, bullet proof, watcher, tracker?

Standard games are usually smaller btw, we just play large games here for whatever reason. Obviously 50/25/25 is a guideline, and then tweaked.. add a townie, maybe give the scum some powers.

And regardless of which, we're getting distracted from the point here. You made a case for a random lynch based on 3 roled townies agaisnt 5 scum, which isn't balanced to being with, and certainly isn't true when the mod has told us the characters will be 'suped up'

[Smashmouth]

This seems fairly compelling, but there's 0% chance I'm going to trust your possibly skewed flavor of the events.. I need to reread that trainwreck of a discussion this afternoon. From where I sat it seemed like baconbrain was voting Smashmouth based on his vote for Klecko, which is still valid even if Smash had jumped to the next wagon already. Everything that occured after that point was mind numbing

And tbh, I got caught up in the other game mistaking crushers deep fried ramblings for scumbaggery and ended up quick lynched because of it..

Almost as mind Numbing as you SMC and EY trying to figure out the game scenario with nothing to go on, on the first day in a 20 player game . Sometimes you just have to play the game and let it develop.

Doggin explained the situatioon quite well and since Im the one who made the case the main reason I pointed at Crusher is because I felt he was being directed in some way that was the basis for my arguement. Sure it took some twists and turns but that was due to the fact there were inconsistencies in Crushers arguement I felt I needed to point out.

BTW Chan stop implying I bandwagon voted when I obviously did not.

[Pac]

While SMC's foot in mouth routine is compelling I'm not convinced it warrants my vote for now. I don't know that there's ever been a game where he hasn't screwed the pooch with some outlandish theory/statement regardless of his alliance. I don't think that in and of itself is overly condemning.

Fact of the matter is I'm more inclined to believe SMC is ok since he's all too aware that silly statements like advocating random lynches will be pounced on by this crowd. Why bother putting the spotlight on himself on day 1 where there are no strong cases? Doesn't make much sense to me.

If my vote is needed there to avoid a random lynch then I'll cast it but it will be only to avoid a random lynch. That being said we all know SMC's irritability issues and this pressure just might make him snap in the not too distant future...

[ZachEY]

If JVoR has been designing the game for weeks, you think he's going to have a game flaw? How does that make sense?

Also, the power roles likely have an extra power. I would guess that the cop has the power to do an extra investigation. Things of that nature.

Explain to me how a game of supers would work if every single player had a game-specific power?

What is your game specific power, EY, based on being a 'suped up characters'?

I can tell you right now that I don't have one.

1) He's already had a game flaw... he ammended it. We can't reveal our names. If we did, this game would be over quite quickly.

2) I completely disagree with the 'extra power' thing.

3) I didn't design the game, lets find out. I've already offered that some powers could be beneficial to scum if improperly used. I also offer that some powers are probably better than others.

4) Oh ok, so, because you don't agree with me, you think if I have something to reveal I should do it with no votes?

The way I see it, especially based on #4, you need to go today, you're either of little to no help, or your scum, and the fact that you're trying to get a reveal out of me is not a positive for your case of self preservation.

[Pac]

Yep. I was totally blinded. I had never let that happen before in a mafia game, but what can I say, we all know what kind of dip**** Pac can be.

You're just mad because I was abusing you that game. Just be thankful you're not my whipping boy again -- yet.

[Doggin94it]

This seems fairly compelling, but there's 0% chance I'm going to trust your possibly skewed flavor of the events.. I need to reread that trainwreck of a discussion this afternoon. From where I sat it seemed like baconbrain was voting Smashmouth based on his vote for Klecko, which is still valid even if Smash had jumped to the next wagon already. Everything that occured after that point was mind numbing

And tbh, I got caught up in the other game mistaking crushers deep fried ramblings for scumbaggery and ended up quick lynched because of it..

Thats why I posted the links.

[SMC]

Roleblocker, bullet proof, watcher, tracker?

Standard games are usually smaller btw, we just play large games here for whatever reason. Obviously 50/25/25 is a guideline, and then tweaked.. add a townie, maybe give the scum some powers.

And regardless of which, we're getting distracted from the point here. You made a case for a random lynch based on 3 roled townies agaisnt 5 scum, which isn't balanced to being with, and certainly isn't true when the mod has told us the characters will be 'suped up'

As far as I can remember, I have not been in a single game in which the town power roles out-numbered the anti-town faction. So based on my experience, my numbers are 100% correct and yours are not.

And again, explain how players are 'suped up' game-wise rather than that being pure role flavor. And I'm talking about run-of-the-mill super townie. What are their game specific powers?

[Doggin94it]

Oh, some other town power roles:

Mason (teammates who can talk to each other)

Recruiting mason (1 townie who can recruit a larger mason team, but who dies if he attempts to recruit scum)

Truthsayer (can quote a line from the thread and PM to the mod for a true/false reading)

Doubler (can double the target's ability for the night)

games with many roled townies are fairly common, and its typically used to balance a souped up scum team (roleblocker, recruiter, symp, watcher, daykiller, etc.) and a game with multiple evil teams (2 mafia teams, mafia + cult, mafia + SK, any combo thereof)

[ZachEY]

Oh, some other town power roles:

Mason (teammates who can talk to each other)

Recruiting mason (1 townie who can recruit a larger mason team, but who dies if he attempts to recruit scum)

Truthsayer (can quote a line from the thread and PM to the mod for a true/false reading)

Doubler (can double the target's ability for the night)

games with many roled townies are fairly common, and its typically used to balance a souped up scum team (roleblocker, recruiter, symp, watcher, daykiller, etc.) and a game with multiple evil teams (2 mafia teams, mafia + cult, mafia + SK, any combo thereof)

Doggin, am I the only one who thinks he fishing for information right now?

I'm growing more confident in my vote.

[SMC]

1) He's already had a game flaw... he ammended it. We can't reveal our names. If we did, this game would be over quite quickly.

2) I completely disagree with the 'extra power' thing.

3) I didn't design the game, lets find out. I've already offered that some powers could be beneficial to scum if improperly used. I also offer that some powers are probably better than others.

4) Oh ok, so, because you don't agree with me, you think if I have something to reveal I should do it with no votes?

The way I see it, especially based on #4, you need to go today, you're either of little to no help, or your scum, and the fact that you're trying to get a reveal out of me is not a positive for your case of self preservation.

Need to go? Okay, lead the lynch. That will have a LOL ending.

As to the "reveal", I'm calling BS. There are no "suped up" characters for the game. How can you have every townie have a power role? It simply couldn't work the way you're suggesting it.

[SMC]

Doggin, am I the only one who thinks he fishing for information right now?

I'm growing more confident in my vote.

Self delusion is a wonderful thing.

[slats]

Oh, some other town power roles:

Mason (teammates who can talk to each other)

Recruiting mason (1 townie who can recruit a larger mason team, but who dies if he attempts to recruit scum)

Truthsayer (can quote a line from the thread and PM to the mod for a true/false reading)

Doubler (can double the target's ability for the night)

games with many roled townies are fairly common, and its typically used to balance a souped up scum team (roleblocker, recruiter, symp, watcher, daykiller, etc.) and a game with multiple evil teams (2 mafia teams, mafia + cult, mafia + SK, any combo thereof)

That would be a good one for SMC should he ironically turn out to be Wonder Woman with her golden lasso.

I also suspect that there's some juice on the town side, which could mean that the scum is loaded, too. It is a super hero game, after all. I'm also following this SMC exchange, and getting more interested. I don't like the way he's trying to portray the game set-up, and it could very well be that he's phishing around a little bit himself.

OTOH, if he's being completely honest, it's likely that he's a non-souped-up character, and therefore a better lynch than his argument for a random one.

[SMC]

Oh, some other town power roles:

Mason (teammates who can talk to each other)

Recruiting mason (1 townie who can recruit a larger mason team, but who dies if he attempts to recruit scum)

Truthsayer (can quote a line from the thread and PM to the mod for a true/false reading)

Doubler (can double the target's ability for the night)

games with many roled townies are fairly common, and its typically used to balance a souped up scum team (roleblocker, recruiter, symp, watcher, daykiller, etc.) and a game with multiple evil teams (2 mafia teams, mafia + cult, mafia + SK, any combo thereof)

Yes, we've seen a game with many roled townies, but EY and CTM are suggested that the 15 non scum team each have a role. That would be something we've never seen before and I doubt it would be workable.

[Smashmouth]

EY and CTM can you guys sum up exactly why you suspect SMC as scum ? I just dont see it , at least at this point I dont. Not at all. You seem to be basing your claims on past games and past play which makes no sense to some of the people currently playing THIS game.