Official JN Schottenheimer Discussion Thread

[Integrity28]

Yes, but nowhere in the vicinity many on this board seems to have convinced themselves he is.

It's understandable...40 years of losing...the HC had/has everyone convinced we're mere inches away from the Super Bowl...the HC is flawless...OC is part of the losing for a longer period of time...not crazy to see why people would grasp at such a small straw to "fix" the "problems" with this years team.

Read the board Gato... very few Rex apologists right now. Very few.

...and a failure of an offensive coordinator is not such a "small straw" in a QB-driven, passing league. What are you suggesting be done? Dump Sanchez and continue to invest in Schotty? You know that makes no sense at all. Come on.

[SenorGato]

Read the board Gato... very few Rex apologists right now. Very few.

...and a failure of an offensive coordinator is not such a "small straw" in a QB-driven, passing league. What are you suggesting be done? Dump Sanchez and continue to invest in Schotty? You know that makes no sense at all. Come on.

Key words.

[Jbro22]

I mean we're 9-4, it would take losing out to get him fired this off season.

[Integrity28]

Key words.

Yes, they are key words... QBs are important. Schotty has had 4 QBs. He has not produced with any of them. Now he has one that has a chance to be groomed into a franchise QB for this team, yet here we are watching him digress. So, in a QB-driven, passing league... when you go through 4 QBs in 4 years, with the same OC, and you get the same results each time, and you are watching your young stud lose confidence by the snap... its probably time to re-evaluate who you have guiding the QB.

[SenorGato]

Schotty has had 4 QBs.

Ugh...This argument is so stunningly dimwitted that I'm stunned I've had to address this as many times as I have. Guy's coached 4 full seasons, been to the playoffs in half of them, should have been in the playoffs in 3 of them, and went the furthest with a rookie. The only QB who's truly bombed in the system is Clemens, who won 3 of his 7 starts on one of the least talented teams in the league back in '07.

If you're going to make such limp dicked statements can you at least explain why/how the Pennington and Pennington/Clemens offenses should have finished high...While you're doing it maybe you can throw in a rookie Sanchez explanation too...because we all know how that offense underperformed.

[Vicious89x]

Great Qbs make average coordinators a genius. Great coordinators create a system that an average QB can thrive in.

We have two VERY average people in our QB and coordinator. I think Shotty has had his fair turn at this. Sanchez, for better or worse is where our investment lies in. When another coordinator is brought in and Sanchez fails after 4-5 years, I think well say he's had his fair shot.

[visajets]

Lets send a message. I will e-mail the thread to the NYJETS.

[SenorGato]

Great Qbs make average coordinators a genius. Great coordinators create a system that an average QB can thrive in.

We have two VERY average people in our QB and coordinator. I think Shotty has had his fair turn at this. Sanchez, for better or worse is where our investment lies in. When another coordinator is brought in and Sanchez fails after 4-5 years, I think well say he's had his fair shot.

See this is what I don't get...Chad had a very strong '06 considering everything and IIRC the league even gave him the CPOY while everyone d-rided the sh*t out of crazy young OC who basically bs'd his offense into one that pulled off 10 wins and a playoff appearance...Favre looked excellent until his bomb dropped...I'd hardly call first timers Clemens or Sanchez average...The fact that we're getting not terrible play from Sanchez this year in normal world would be a reason to praise the OC but our breakdown of each guy is on a play by play and then game by game basis...Neither guy is going to look good if you're going to pick them apart like that because of a couple losses.

[Integrity28]

Ugh...This argument is so stunningly dimwitted that I'm stunned I've had to address this as many times as I have. Guy's coached 4 full seasons, been to the playoffs in half of them, should have been in the playoffs in 3 of them, and went the furthest with a rookie. The only QB who's truly bombed in the system is Clemens, who won 3 of his 7 starts on one of the least talented teams in the league back in '07.

If you're going to make such limp dicked statements can you at least explain why/how the Pennington and Pennington/Clemens offenses should have finished high...While you're doing it maybe you can throw in a rookie Sanchez explanation too...because we all know how that offense underperformed.

I offered up my last "long response" to you above, wherein I acknowledged that this is NOT just about Schotty and I meant what I said. But... You ignored that post, and instead chose to cherry pick words from a shorter post. So, to test a theory, I gave you a canned answer that I've seen here over and over... and I got exactly what I expected from you. Bullsh*t. I'm not going to keep going round-and-round with you. Your talking points are shallow, and your inability to consider alternative points of view exposes your true agenda of just wanting to be the center of attention. Like a 14 year old girl. Anytime anyone concedes your point, or talks toward a middle ground, you disregard it and instead cherry pick for more fodder to re-ignite the bickering. Its relatively pointless to discuss this with you anymore.

Remember when you and I bickered like this over Mangini too? That worked out well for you.

[SenorGato]

I offered up my last "long response" to you above, wherein I acknowledged that this is NOT just about Schotty and I meant what I said. But... You ignored that post, and instead chose to cherry pick words from a shorter post. So, to test a theory, I gave you a canned answer that I've seen here over and over... and I got exactly what I expected from you. Bullsh*t. I'm not going to keep going round-and-round with you. Your talking points are shallow, and your inability to consider alternative points of view exposes your true agenda of just wanting to be the center of attention. Like a 14 year old girl. Anytime anyone concedes your point, or talks toward a middle ground, you disregard it and instead cherry pick for more fodder to re-ignite the bickering. Its relatively pointless to discuss this with you anymore.

Remember when you and I bickered like this over Mangini too? That worked out well for you.

Ugh...please stfu. Stop talking to me if the best you've got is one football post per argument before the levees holding back your inner douche break. I don't care about how I make your vagina feel. Leave it for your therapist or maybe even the girlfriend you made up. Maybe you should have made a less sh*tty point than "duuuurrrrr 4 QBs and none of them became superstarZ!!!"

Also, Eric Mangini is the motherf*ckin man.

[Vicious89x]

See this is what I don't get...Chad had a very strong '06 considering everything and IIRC the league even gave him the CPOY while everyone d-rided the sh*t out of crazy young OC who basically bs'd his offense into one that pulled off 10 wins and a playoff appearance...Favre looked excellent until his bomb dropped...I'd hardly call first timers Clemens or Sanchez average...The fact that we're getting not terrible play from Sanchez this year in normal world would be a reason to praise the OC but our breakdown of each guy is on a play by play and then game by game basis...Neither guy is going to look good if you're going to pick them apart like that because of a couple losses.

The reason people see you as a troll is your stubborn refusal to admit there is any wrong with your beloved. Favre told shotty to stop the pre snap motion and was the only QB with enough clout to tell shotty to shove it. 06 was great but I find it hard to believe that part of the success didn't come from the fact it was a new offense. Every post on this subject comes down to semantics.

Oh this year was good

He has t had a good QB

His QB was injured

Etc.

Call me a Basher but honestly I dont comprehend how you don't think he's had a fair chance and if these woes continue how firing him wouldn't be justified.

[Integrity28]

Ugh...please stfu. Stop talking to me if the best you've got is one football post per argument before the levees holding back your inner douche break. I don't care about how I make your vagina feel. Leave it for your therapist or maybe even the girlfriend you made up.

Also, Eric Mangini is the motherf*ckin man.

My therapist told me to tell you, "Cool story bro." Not sure what he meant by that.

Seriously, I tried "talking" to you up top... you missed your window, you were busy being redundant. From now on, we only discuss boobies and hineys and all the fun parts in between, as this is probably the only thing we've exhibited the ability to agree upon.

[Integrity28]

Ugh...please stfu. Stop talking to me if the best you've got is one football post per argument before the levees holding back your inner douche break. I don't care about how I make your vagina feel. Leave it for your therapist or maybe even the girlfriend you made up. Maybe you should have made a less sh*tty point than "duuuurrrrr 4 QBs and none of them became superstarZ!!!"

Also, Eric Mangini is the motherf*ckin man.

How is it that you contribute the same purposefully redundant crap daily to this site, but you constantly have to edit your posts to go back and make sure you absolutely, positively convey just how ******* retarded you are with every post? Heh. At least make the posts funnier if you are going to edit them all the time.

[SenorGato]

The reason people see you as a troll is your stubborn refusal to admit there is any wrong with your beloved. Favre told shotty to stop the pre snap motion and was the only QB with enough clout to tell shotty to shove it. 06 was great but I find it hard to believe that part of the success didn't come from the fact it was a new offense. Every post on this subject comes down to semantics.

Oh this year was good

He has t had a good QB

His QB was injured

Etc.

Call me a Basher but honestly I dont comprehend how you don't think he's had a fair chance and if these woes continue how firing him wouldn't be justified.

Firing him is justified in the way that business is done...He's had the job for 5 years, in that time he hasn't produced a great offense, and 5 years in this business is a long time. I understand that.

What I don't understand is that actual analysis that takes into account the actual players he's had to coach. Sure Favre knocked out alot of the pre-snap motion, and it worked...That's what's worked for Brett Favre...pre-snap motion is a staple in many offenses in the league including teams like the Saints, Chargers, and Colts...He did what is expected of a coach taking on a late 30's HOF QB...he played to Favre's strengths and didn't force Favre to do more than he's done...which is fine because Favre proved in his previous 16 years that he can lineup, play, and win.

Also, it sucks that certain people think I'm a troll. I like a few of you guys and believe I've noticed the ones that I like that have become turned off by my enthusiasm for this issue. Time will heal these small wounds, hopefully. Maybe one day I'll nail how to look at coaches correctly, but seems like they are a ways off.

[CTM]

all you all hating on the pizza dude with no change, i really think his point is not to defend schotty but to troll those of you who think it's 100% his fault

[Integrity28]

all you all hating on the pizza dude with no change, i really think his point is not to defend schotty but to troll those of you who think it's 100% his fault

Correct. That is why I tried to point out earlier in thread that I don't feel it is 100% on Schotty, but the troll of course has to ignore such a post and resort to cherry picking dooshbaggery instead. Damn my propensity for getting the last word... I just don't have as much free time to devote to having the same lopsided debate daily. He is a tireless ****er... good thing he's not putting that tenacity and energy to good use.

So when are we playing mafia again?

[CTM]

Correct. That is why I tried to point out earlier in thread that I don't feel it is 100% on Schotty, but the troll of course has to ignore such a post and resort to cherry picking dooshbaggery instead. Damn my propensity for getting the last word... I just don't have as much free time to devote to having the same lopsided debate daily. He is a tireless ****er... good thing he's not putting that tenacity and energy to good use.

So when are we playing mafia again?

When the jets season is over.. so about 3 weeks

[Integrity28]

When the jets season is over.. so about 3 weeks

That seems manageable... now, if I can just refrain from tossing my computer out a window for the time being.

[Vicious89x]

Firing him is justified in the way that business is done...He's had the job for 5 years, in that time he hasn't produced a great offense, and 5 years in this business is a long time. I understand that.

What I don't understand is that actual analysis that takes into account the actual players he's had to coach. Sure Favre knocked out alot of the pre-snap motion, and it worked...That's what's worked for Brett Favre...pre-snap motion is a staple in many offenses in the league including teams like the Saints, Chargers, and Colts...He did what is expected of a coach taking on a late 30's HOF QB...he played to Favre's strengths and didn't force Favre to do more than he's done...which is fine because Favre proved in his previous 16 years that he can lineup, play, and win.

Also, it sucks that certain people think I'm a troll. I like a few of you guys and believe I've noticed the ones that I like that have become turned off by my enthusiasm for this issue. Time will heal these small wounds, possibly.

I think it's safe to say that regardless of the circumstances that over the course of his tenure with the jets there has been more mediocrity to below average offense than years in which our offense looked really good.

I think you need to apply the real world logic here. He's had this job for a GOOD amount of time and hasn't yielded consistent results. At some point you have to cut your losses and try something new. Considering the overreaction the NFL is notorious for I think shotty has had a fair shot. Hell- look at how many teams Mike Martz has been on during that time period.

[Jets Voice of Reason]

That seems manageable... now, if I can just refrain from tossing my computer out a window for the time being.

It's pretty sad. I've gone from being incredibly pumped up for the monday night showdown to not wanting to watch us get a$$-raped by the Steelers on Sunday.

[Vicious89x]

That seems manageable... now, if I can just refrain from tossing my computer out a window for the time being.

Sadly I am more even keeled during all this than I am playing mafia.

[Integrity28]

I think it's safe to say that regardless of the circumstances that over the course of his tenure with the jets there has been more mediocrity to below average offense than years in which our offense looked really good.

I think you need to apply the real world logic here. He's had this job for a GOOD amount of time and hasn't yielded consistent results. At some point you have to cut your losses and try something new. Considering the overreaction the NFL is notorious for I think shotty has had a fair shot. Hell- look at how many teams Mike Martz has been on during that time period.

Jesus... its like a revolving door.

I just extracted myself from the time-suck that is debating this goon, and he sucks you in...

[Integrity28]

It's pretty sad. I've gone from being incredibly pumped up for the monday night showdown to not wanting to watch us get a$$-raped by the Steelers on Sunday.

Me too.

Sadly I am more even keeled during all this than I am playing mafia.

The Jets need more VicGodEmo.

[visajets]

It's pretty sad. I've gone from being incredibly pumped up for the monday night showdown to not wanting to watch us get a$$-raped by the Steelers on Sunday.

+1

[SenorGato]

I think it's safe to say that regardless of the circumstances that over the course of his tenure with the jets there has been more mediocrity to below average offense than years in which our offense looked really good.

I think you need to apply the real world logic here. He's had this job for a GOOD amount of time and hasn't yielded consistent results. At some point you have to cut your losses and try something new. Considering the overreaction the NFL is notorious for I think shotty has had a fair shot. Hell- look at how many teams Mike Martz has been on during that time period.

CTM pretty much nailed me with this:

all you all hating on the pizza dude with no change, i really think his point is not to defend schotty but to troll those of you who think it's 100% his fault

I agree with the logic that he has to go for the reason that he's had a ton of time here and "hasn't produced" to the ideal level.

I disagree with the ridiculous amount of importance or value or w/e you want to call it that's been put on the offensive coordinator position....This and buzzwords...f*ck I hate buzzwords.

[Integrity28]

CTM pretty much nailed me with this:

So.... do you think you guys will hook up?

Chan is the one with the awesome t-shirt.

[Vicious89x]

CTM pretty much nailed me with this:

I agree with the logic that he has to go for the reason that he's had a ton of time here and "hasn't produced" to the ideal level.

I disagree with the ridiculous amount of importance or value or w/e you want to call it that's been put on the offensive coordinator position....This and buzzwords...f*ck I hate buzzwords.

I'm not saying hes the sole reason either. I just think some people will always gravitate to that kind of logic. I mean, sh*t, I saw a thread that called for Rex and Sanchez to be let go. Im not even trying to bother with people like that.

[Jets Voice of Reason]

CTM pretty much nailed me with this:

I agree with the logic that he has to go for the reason that he's had a ton of time here and "hasn't produced" to the ideal level.

I disagree with the ridiculous amount of importance or value or w/e you want to call it that's been put on the offensive coordinator position....This and buzzwords...f*ck I hate buzzwords.

Let's face it, Schotty isn't clutch at developing a rhythm with the offense. Once momentum starts, he just finds ways to stop it. He chokes under pressure. He calls pass when he should run and calls runs when we should pass. He saps Mark of confidence.

[Bleedin Green]

See this is what I don't get...Chad had a very strong '06 considering everything and IIRC the league even gave him the CPOY while everyone d-rided the sh*t out of crazy young OC who basically bs'd his offense into one that pulled off 10 wins and a playoff appearance...Favre looked excellent until his bomb dropped...I'd hardly call first timers Clemens or Sanchez average...The fact that we're getting not terrible play from Sanchez this year in normal world would be a reason to praise the OC but our breakdown of each guy is on a play by play and then game by game basis...Neither guy is going to look good if you're going to pick them apart like that because of a couple losses.

You do realize that for all the criticism you give of other people's arguments, your argument in favor of Schotty is to credit him for every positive and excuse him for every negative. He gets all the credit for any game any of his QBs played well, but is blameless when they suck. I am the furthest thing in the world from Pennington fan, but the guy was easily at his worst with Schotty as his OC. A guy who's one claim to fame was being SO careful with the football averaged a pick per game with Schotty. The Favre led 2008 offense was better, but isn't nearly as good as you try to convince us all it was. Prior to Favre's injury it was unbelievably inconsistent, with numbers blown up thanks to huge outputs against really bad defenses like Arizona and St. Louis, while completely sh*tting the bed against the likes of the Raiders. As far as the young QBs go, how is it not an indictment of Schotty that he's now had two QB's who he's had a hand in bringing in and developing, and both are exhibiting many of the same exact problems as one another.

After five years the Jets offensive roster has completely changed but all of the problems are the same. I never really expect us to agree on this topic, but I'm just not sure how you can't see the unreasonable nature of blaming 5 years worth of problems on every other person than the one guy who's been here for all five years, running the show on offense. In the end, I'll defer to a person much smarter than either of us, from a post over a month old that blatantly outlined exactly one of the big issues with this team.

You can factor out many of the variables in the interception category by simply adjusting those numbers for opponents played in the year.

The bookend healthy Chad seasons he was at 32% and 43% below the average while in the 2 Schotty years he was at 1.4 and 6.8% above the norms. Thats a huge jump. Favres were -6.5 and -56.4. Here he was 72%. Ryan and Flaccos rookie seasons were -11 and -13. Sanchez was around 60% above the norm last year.

The balls fly to the wrong team in the offense. Its alot of QBs and alot of comparables at this point to just say its too small of a sample or he is affected by having to teach players.

I'm sure you'll have more excuses for why it's not Schotty's fault, but every time it comes back to the fact that these guys played worse under him than before him or after him.

[Bleedin Green]

all you all hating on the pizza dude with no change, i really think his point is not to defend schotty but to troll those of you who think it's 100% his fault

Except nobody actually thinks that it's 100% his fault. The only person who has EVER said that is Gato in the midst of his ridiculous trolling. I would think you of all people would have no patience for posters who conjure up their own asinine arguments that nobody is making, assigning them to other people and then declaring victory because since that argument he just fabricated isn't true, that somehow makes him absolutely correct. It's seriously like dealing with LETSGOJETS. There is no middle ground in his world, because if Schotty isn't 100% to blame, then he is completely blameless.

[CTM]

Except nobody actually thinks that it's 100% his fault. The only person who has EVER said that is Gato in the midst of his ridiculous trolling. I would think you of all people would have no patience for posters who conjure up their own asinine arguments that nobody is making, assigning them to other people and then declaring victory because since that argument he just fabricated isn't true, that somehow makes him absolutely correct. It's seriously like dealing with LETSGOJETS. There is no middle ground in his world, because if Schotty isn't 100% to blame, then he is completely blameless.

while your overall point about binary world is true, i think there's justification in his inference based on the amount of sh*tty ranting and raving that goes on..

there's a few guys that seem to blame schotty 100%..

not you ofcourse, you blame the refs

[Bleedin Green]

while your overall point about binary world is true, i think there's justification in his inference based on the amount of sh*tty ranting and raving that goes on..

there's a few guys that seem to blame schotty 100%..

not you ofcourse, you blame the refs

I haven't blamed the refs in ages. The Jets suck far too much for me to be worrying about the refs.

[Vicious89x]

while your overall point about binary world is true, i think there's justification in his inference based on the amount of sh*tty ranting and raving that goes on..

there's a few guys that seem to blame schotty 100%..

not you ofcourse, you blame the refs

And Pac blames SMC for an unbalanced mafia game. Some people just rely on blaming others as a crutch.

[CTM]

And Pac blames SMC for an unbalanced mafia game. Some people just rely on blaming others as a crutch.

<realtalk>

[Jetsfan80]

Gato, you should be hoping Schotty finds another home. Then we'll truly get to see if Sanchez is the problem and if Schotty can perform regardless of the circumstances.

Let's face it, someone's gonna have to go if we miss the playoffs or get knocked out in the 1st round. Its not going to be Rex or Sanchez. If Schotty isn't gone now, he's on his last legs, regardless of what Rex said about him after the Miami game. Remember, Josh McDaniels got fired a day after Bowlen told the media McDaniels' job is safe.

Maybe Rex is talking Schotty up so we can trade him to the Chiefs for a 4th rounder.