3 out of 4! Mission impossible is almost accomplished!

[stoicsentry]

Just need to extend David Harris and the JETS will have made a huge accomplishment in extending ALL of the core four - Revis, Mangold, Brick and Harris. Some said it couldn't be done!!!!

[SenorGato]

Harris would have been signed already if they wanted it done...IMO.

[stoicsentry]

Patience my friend, patience!!! There is plenty of time left!!!

[Mistalava]

Good point. And if the 30% rule did not get in the way, Tanny might have locked up Harris as well.

[Bleedin Green]

Harris would have been signed already if they wanted it done...IMO.

Outside of almost every cent in the entire deal being put into an enormous signing bonus, there's no way the Jets could have signed Harris to deal anywhere near what either he or the team think he's worth, given the rules under the current CBA. Harris has already publicly said himself that he knows and understands that there's really no way for him to negotiate a new contract with the team until after this season. It's the reason he's the only one you haven't heard a peep out of regarding his contract.

[SenorGato]

Outside of almost every cent in the entire deal being put into an enormous signing bonus, there's no way the Jets could have signed Harris to deal anywhere near what either he or the team think he's worth, given the rules under the current CBA. Harris has already publicly said himself that he knows and understands that there's really no way for him to negotiate a new contract with the team until after this season. It's the reason he's the only one you haven't heard a peep out of regarding his contract.

No I get that...what I said still stands. They're not looking to have 3 linebackers making 8+ million a piece. You could get similar production at Harris' position for much cheaper and I think that's the plan.

[Larz]

the point to the "core four" deal was lock them up first, then try to sign as many of the remaing guys as you can, and harris is a RFA next year, no worries about him

I think between cro, edwards and holmes one of them will be gone.

the nice thing is they have to play for pay

if they all stay healthy, out of trouble and produce, it ill be a nice problem to have

[Klecko73isGod]

No I get that...what I said still stands. They're not looking to have 3 linebackers making 8+ million a piece. You could get similar production at Harris' position for much cheaper and I think that's the plan.

I don't think you do "get that." Because if you did, you'd understand that your first post in this thread doesn't make any sense.

The Jets are completely handcuffed from giving Harris a fair deal. It has nothing with them not wanting to lock him up. It's that they are prevented from doing so by rule.

[SenorGato]

I don't think you do "get that." Because if you did, you'd understand that your first post in this thread doesn't make any sense.

The Jets are completely handcuffed from giving Harris a fair deal. It has nothing with them not wanting to lock him up. It's that they are prevented from doing so by rule.

Dude...I get that. The problem with your logic is you're assuming they want to pay their 3rd best LB 8 million when there's already two guys making that much...It's not like there was some rule preventing them from signing Harris before they locked up D'Brick/Mangold/Revis...You think it's coincidence that they happened to pick those 3 and not Harris?

Harris has maybe one or two more years here depending on how the franchise tag is used...There simply isn't a need to spend money on the LB position like that.

[Klecko73isGod]

Dude...I get that. The problem with your logic is you're assuming they want to pay their 3rd best LB 8 million when there's already two guys making that much...It's not like there was some rule preventing them from signing Harris before they locked up D'Brick/Mangold/Revis...You think it's coincidence that they happened to pick those 3 and not Harris?

Harris has maybe one or two more years here depending on how the franchise tag is used...There simply isn't a need to spend money on the LB position like that.

Except, yes there is.

[ARodJetsFan]

Just need to extend David Harris and the JETS will have made a huge accomplishment in extending ALL of the core four - Revis, Mangold, Brick and Harris. Some said it couldn't be done!!!!

This will happen but probably not until later in or after the season.

David Harris is a TOP priority now.

[Klecko73isGod]

This will happen but probably not until later in or after the season.

David Harris is a TOP priority now.

It can't happen during the year unless a new CBA is signed that trumps the 30% rule immediately.

The only reason Harris hasn't been re-signed is because of the 30% rule. Its also why Harris hasn't complained once about his deal.

[ARodJetsFan]

It can't happen during the year unless a new CBA is signed that trumps the 30% rule immediately.

The only reason Harris hasn't been re-signed is because of the 30% rule. Its also why Harris hasn't complained once about his deal.

Right.

That doesn't change the fact that David Harris is now this teams top priority.

I heard the 30% rule being tossed around alot as a sticking point with the Revis deal too and a deal still got done.

There are ways around the 30% rule IE signing bonuses, workout bonuses and roster bonuses that do not count as annual salary in a contract.

At least, that is my understanding.

[Klecko73isGod]

Right.

That doesn't change the fact that David Harris is now this teams top priority.

I heard the 30% rule being tossed around alot as a sticking point with the Revis deal too and a deal still got done.

There are ways around the 30% rule IE signing bonuses, workout bonuses and roster bonuses that do not count as annual salary in a contract.

At least, that is my understanding.

Yeah, but Revis essentially signed an extension (which gave them more flexibility) and Harris only has this year left.

[ZachEY]

It can't happen during the year unless a new CBA is signed that trumps the 30% rule immediately.

The only reason Harris hasn't been re-signed is because of the 30% rule. Its also why Harris hasn't complained once about his deal.

This is all a result of Harris being a 2nd rounder. Because his original deal is smaller, any extension he got would have to be significantly smaller.

What about the fourth member of the so-called Core Four of young Jets starters, David Harris?

The linebacker's agent, Brian Mackler, said he and Jets GM Mike Tannenbaum have spoken more than a dozen times about Harris, including in recent weeks. But a deal is not expected to be done until after the uncertain labor situation lifts.

"Mike (Tannenbaum) and coach Rex Ryan have expressed their desire to make David a Jet for life," Mackler said this morning. "We understand the ramifications of an uncapped year and no CBA for a second-round pick. As we stand right now, we can't do a contract without doing a structure David and I are not comfortable with."

http://www.nj.com/jets/index.ssf/2010/08/david_harris_extension_with_je.html

[Lupz27]

Dude...I get that. The problem with your logic is you're assuming they want to pay their 3rd best LB 8 million when there's already two guys making that much...It's not like there was some rule preventing them from signing Harris before they locked up D'Brick/Mangold/Revis...You think it's coincidence that they happened to pick those 3 and not Harris?

Harris has maybe one or two more years here depending on how the franchise tag is used...There simply isn't a need to spend money on the LB position like that.

Do you even watch the games? He is our best LB'er and its not even close, and he is top 5 MLB in football. Outside of giving him all his money in a signing bonus it is NOT possible to sign him to a contract extension that is fair value for him even on a team friendly contract, you say you understand this but continue to say "if they wanted him they would have signed him already". Im puzzled.

[ARodJetsFan]

Yeah, but Revis essentially signed an extension (which gave them more flexibility) and Harris only has this year left.

Gotcha Joe.

Well definitely off-season priority # 1 then, I would say.

[Jetsfan80]

Do you even watch the games? He is our best LB'er and its not even close, and he is top 5 MLB in football. Outside of giving him all his money in a signing bonus it is NOT possible to sign him to a contract extension that is fair value for him even on a team friendly contract, you say you understand this but continue to say "if they wanted him they would have signed him already". Im puzzled.

Gato chronically underrates Harris. He's not nearly as replaceable as he'd have you believe. 25-year old A-gap-pass-rushing beasts like Harris who can also stop the run don't grow on trees.

[SenorGato]

Except, yes there is.

No, there isn't. The rule kicked in AFTER the three guys who play positions far more key to our future got signed.

He is our best LB'er and its not even close,

He's not even our best ILB.

I don't underrate Harris...I just choose to realize how good Scott and Pace are...Pace has to be one of the most underrated players in the league at this point...IMO he's one of the 5 best 3-4 OLBs in the league...Ware/Woodley/Suggs/Harrrison/Pace. There's a strong argument that Scott is the best 3-4 ILB in the league right now...

[Klecko73isGod]

No, there isn't. The rule kicked in AFTER the three guys who play positions far more key to our future got signed.

No it didn't. The rule has been the rule all along this offseason. It didn't just suddenly kick in as a result of the other players signing. Just admit you are wrong and don't understand.

He's not even our best ILB.

I don't underrate Harris...I just choose to realize how good Scott and Pace are...Pace has to be one of the most underrated players in the league at this point...IMO he's one of the 5 best 3-4 OLBs in the league...Ware/Woodley/Suggs/Harrrison/Pace. There's a strong argument that Scott is the best 3-4 ILB in the league right now...

You really don't watch this team play, do you?

Harris and Scott are about as even as you get.

[Sperm Edwards]

the point to the "core four" deal was lock them up first, then try to sign as many of the remaing guys as you can, and harris is a RFA next year, no worries about him

I think between cro, edwards and holmes one of them will be gone.

the nice thing is they have to play for pay

if they all stay healthy, out of trouble and produce, it ill be a nice problem to have

He is and he isn't. He is a RFA under the current CBA. But the current CBA expires before any games are played next year.

If I were Harris I wouldn't sign a RFA tender with the Jets.

First off, someone might sign him away for a 1st and a 3rd and give him a long-term deal in 2011.

Second, I think the CBA runs out at the end of March or something. The only way he'd be a RFA in April 2011 and beyond, as opposed to a UFA, is if the union agrees to allow players with 4 accrued years to still only be restricted FA's. Prior to this year, after 4 seasons a player was always unrestricted. So at that point either the the Jets (or someone else) would give him a long-term deal, or the Jets would franchise him (if the new CBA still allows franchise tags). Either one of those options trumps signing a $3M RFA tender. The risk would be the new CBA still stamping him as a RFA in his 5th season AND the Jets rescinding the $3M offer and replacing it with a league minimum one (like the Pats did with Mankins, and the Chargers did with both McNeil and VJackson). That seems the least likely scenario of the bunch.

It's a gamble for him no matter what; he could take the "sure" $3M, which of course is only $3M if there's an agreement on a CBA and there is a football season; otherwise it's zero. But in doing so he risks missing out on a potential big payday, through one of two methods I mentioned, in 2011. Could get a bad injury in 2011 and that's all he makes forever. So even taking the sure thing is a risk for him. As long as he's taking a risk, he might as well go with what seems most likely to happen and sign nothing until a new CBA is hammered out (naturally, unless the Jets come to him with a megadeal prior to that).

[DMaynard]

Scott and Pace are very good. Harris is actually a little better. And younger. The important thing is we have all three of them this year and I trust mgmt to take care of Harris after this year.

[SenorGato]

No it didn't. The rule has been the rule all along this offseason. It didn't just suddenly kick in as a result of the other players signing. Just admit you are wrong and don't understand.

You really don't watch this team play, do you?

Harris and Scott are about as even as you get.

I'm not sure how a rule that states this:

"No NFL Player Contract entered into in a Capped Year and extending into the Final League Year or beyond may provide for an annual increase in Salary, excluding any amount attributable to a signing bonus ... of more than 30% of the Salary provided for in the Final Capped Year, per year, either in the Final League Year or in any subsequent League Year covered by the Player Contract."

is the sole reason they didn't resign Harris. Perhaps if it was explained to me I would understand.

Also, again, you underrate the crap out of Scott and Pace. Scott and Harris are not the same player. If that was true then Harris could do what Scott does, but he doesn't. Scott has done in the past what Harris does for us now. Harris has never been asked to do what Scott does, even when Mangini was here forcing our guys to not make plays. Pace...well sh*t I guess you guys will appreciate Pace in time.

Fact is, Harris tends to get overrated by fans because 1. he got the pretty stats last year and has before for us and 2. the Jets drafted him. He's a really good player and near the top of the league at his position...yes...on many teams he is the best linebacker...he's not the leader of this D...he's not it's best pass rusher...he's not the best player against the run...I don't think he's worth 8 million a year here...well, not unless the cap jumps way up in the future.

[Boozer76]

Klecko and Gato are both correct. With the CBA right now it makes no sense for Harris to sign the most that the team can offer. Their hands are tied on both sides. With that being said, I just don't see the Jets being able to pay Harris what his true value is, and if there is a player out of the 4 (Brick, Mangold, Revis, Harris) that would be least devastating to the team, I think it's Harris. He is likely the victim of being a great player on a team with alot of great players. At the end of the day I could see Rex saying he could continue to field a top tier D with a little drop in quality at ILB.

[Klecko73isGod]

Klecko and Gato are both correct. With the CBA right now it makes no sense for Harris to sign the most that the team can offer. Their hands are tied on both sides. With that being said, I just don't see the Jets being able to pay Harris what his true value is, and if there is a player out of the 4 (Brick, Mangold, Revis, Harris) that would be least devastating to the team, I think it's Harris. He is likely the victim of being a great player on a team with alot of great players. At the end of the day I could see Rex saying he could continue to field a top tier D with a little drop in quality at ILB.

First of all, I don't think Rex would ever actually say those words.

Second, Brick, Mangold and Revis all signed deals that are cap-friendly enough to make it possible for the Jets to re-sign Harris rather easily this offseason.

[Boozer76]

Klecko and Gato are both correct. With the CBA right now it makes no sense for Harris to sign the most that the team can offer. Their hands are tied on both sides. With that being said, I just don't see the Jets being able to pay Harris what his true value is, and if there is a player out of the 4 (Brick, Mangold, Revis, Harris) that would be least devastating to the team, I think it's Harris. He is likely the victim of being a great player on a team with alot of great players. At the end of the day I could see Rex saying he could continue to field a top tier D with a little drop in quality at ILB.

Not to you or I, or the media of course not. And from the looks of it, Revis' deal is not very cap friendly at all if there is one. 16.25 for the next two years and 13.5 after that ain't all that friendly. I love Harris, don't get me wrong. I think he is among the 5 best in the league at his position. I just think if you put Rex to the fire and said he has to downgrade a little at one spot for cap reasons, I think they'd get by ok with it being at ILB.

[Klecko73isGod]

Not to you or I, or the media of course not. And from the looks of it, Revis' deal is not very cap friendly at all if there is one. 16.25 for the next two years and 13.5 after that ain't all that friendly. I love Harris, don't get me wrong. I think he is among the 5 best in the league at his position. I just think if you put Rex to the fire and said he has to downgrade a little at one spot for cap reasons, I think they'd get by ok with it being at ILB.

I seriously doubt the man who built his rep as a DC in Baltimore with Bart Scott and Ray Lewis at ILB would be willing to compromise on talent at that position.

[SenorGato]

I seriously doubt the man who built his rep as a DC in Baltimore with Bart Scott and Ray Lewis at ILB would be willing to compromise on talent at that position.

The Ravens have had like 4-5 ILBs next to Lewis since Rex has been there...Scott just happened to stand out way more than anyone else. Bart Scott is REALLY f*cking good...the guy was an UDFA who became a stalwart starter on one of the most badass D's in the league...now he's the leader of the D here...Rex hand picked the dude to come over here for a reason...he could have brought Lewis with him because, if you'll recall, Lewis was actually allowed to hit FA in '08...instead he picked Scott.

Don't be shocked when Westerman or some draft pick is starting next to Scott in 2012. It makes an infinite amount of sense compared to paying yet another linebacker 8 million dollars...

[Boozer76]

I seriously doubt the man who built his rep as a DC in Baltimore with Bart Scott and Ray Lewis at ILB would be willing to compromise on talent at that position.

You make a fair point, but I still will agree to disagree. Ryan makes his bread on outside rushing and DB's who can cover IMO.

[Klecko73isGod]

The Ravens have had like 4-5 ILBs next to Lewis since Rex has been there...Scott just happened to stand out way more than anyone else. Bart Scott is REALLY f*cking good...the guy was an UDFA who became a stalwart starter on one of the most badass D's in the league...now he's the leader of the D here...Rex hand picked the dude to come over here for a reason...he could have brought Lewis with him because, if you'll recall, Lewis was actually allowed to hit FA in '08...instead he picked Scott.

Don't be shocked when Westerman or some draft pick is starting next to Scott in 2012. It makes an infinite amount of sense compared to paying yet another linebacker 8 million dollars...

Dude, you are preaching to the choir on Bart Scott. There isn't a Jet fan alive who is a bigger Bart Scott fan than me. I have been singing the man's praises online since 2006, ask anyone who was on JI at the time. The second the Jets signed him I ordered a Bart Scott jersey.

David Harris is just as good as Bart Scott and by the end of this year, he may be better.

[SenorGato]

Dude, you are preaching to the choir on Bart Scott. There isn't a Jet fan alive who is a bigger Bart Scott fan than me. I have been singing the man's praises online since 2006, ask anyone who was on JI at the time. The second the Jets signed him I ordered a Bart Scott jersey.

David Harris is just as good as Bart Scott and by the end of this year, he may be better.

David Harris looks like he did last year because Scott is better than him. I legitimately don't think Harris could do what Scott does for this D. If he was asked to, he'd get hurt. Scott played most of last year injured and still kicked a$$.

And again, the Ravens NEVER paid big money to put a guy next to Lewis. They just kept developing young guys...We're probably going to see that happen with Scott, one of the top two Lewis students (along with Thomas).

Also, Harris' youth is overrated...He's younger, but he's got a longer history of injury. Who wants to pay a complimentary linebacker in this D 8 million dollars? Why wouldn't they just take the draft pick, save about 7.5 million, and probably milk production from another young LB? You do realize that besides for RB the easiest position to manufacture production from is linebacker, right? What does Harris bring that is irreplaceable?

[Klecko73isGod]

David Harris looks like he did last year because Scott is better than him. I legitimately don't think Harris could do what Scott does for this D. If he was asked to, he'd get hurt. Scott played most of last year injured and still kicked a$$.

And again, the Ravens NEVER paid big money to put a guy next to Lewis. They just kept changing him...We're probably going to see that happen with Scott.

Also, Harris' youth is overrated...He's younger, but he's got a longer history of injury. Who wants to pay a complimentary linebacker 8 million dollars? Why wouldn't they just take the draft pick, save about 7.5 million, and probably milk production from another young LB? You do realize that besides for RB the easiest position to manufacture production from is linebacker, right? What does Harris bring that is irreplaceable?

Do you realize that Harris had almost the exact same season his rookie year as last year and he didn't have Bart Scott next to him and wasn't playing in nearly as aggressive a scheme? Harris is a friggin' beast.

He has missed a grand total of five games in his career due to one injury during his second year. That doesn't exactly equate to a "long history of injury."

[SenorGato]

Do you realize that Harris had almost the exact same season his rookie year as last year and he didn't have Bart Scott next to him and wasn't playing in nearly as aggressive a scheme? Harris is a friggin' beast.

He has missed a grand total of five games in his career due to one injury during his second year. That doesn't exactly equate to a "long history of injury."

His rookie year could be explained off by the fact that he was the only playmaking LB on the roster. That's not the case now, and Scott brings more to the table than he does.

You're not getting it...I understand Harris is a very good player. That is not what is in question. Again I ask, what does Harris bring to the table in the long term that is worth the 5/40+ he should/could get on the open market? What does he do that is irreplaceable?

And last but not least...those 5 games in 2008 were huge and do affect his value. Can't have key players missing key games...that's why JAbe isn't here...and Abe's position is many times more valuable than Harris'. FYI: He also blew out his knee in college...it's why he was a 3rd round pick until his workout numbers flew him into the 2nd.

[Jetsfan80]

His rookie year could be explained off by the fact that he was the only playmaking LB on the roster. That's not the case now, and Scott brings more to the table than he does.

You're not getting it...I understand Harris is a very good player. That is not what is in question. Again I ask, what does Harris bring to the table in the long term that is worth the 5/40+ he should/could get on the open market? What does he do that is irreplaceable?

And last but not least...those 5 games in 2008 were huge and do affect his value. Can't have key players missing key games...that's why JAbe isn't here...and Abe's position is many times more valuable than Harris'. FYI: He also blew out his knee in college...it's why he was a 3rd round pick until his workout numbers flew him into the 2nd.

What is "irreplacable" about him is that re-signing him means we don't have to worry about the ILB position until Bart Scott starts getting up there in age. It allows us the flexibility to improve at other positions in the draft, such as RT, DE, OLB, WR, RB, and perhaps CB (if Cromartie signs elsewhere). Keeping him ensures we continue to have the best ILB duo in the NFL for at least a few more years.

[Larz]

He is and he isn't. He is a RFA under the current CBA. But the current CBA expires before any games are played next year.

If I were Harris I wouldn't sign a RFA tender with the Jets.

First off, someone might sign him away for a 1st and a 3rd and give him a long-term deal in 2011.

Second, I think the CBA runs out at the end of March or something. The only way he'd be a RFA in April 2011 and beyond, as opposed to a UFA, is if the union agrees to allow players with 4 accrued years to still only be restricted FA's. Prior to this year, after 4 seasons a player was always unrestricted. So at that point either the the Jets (or someone else) would give him a long-term deal, or the Jets would franchise him (if the new CBA still allows franchise tags). Either one of those options trumps signing a $3M RFA tender. The risk would be the new CBA still stamping him as a RFA in his 5th season AND the Jets rescinding the $3M offer and replacing it with a league minimum one (like the Pats did with Mankins, and the Chargers did with both McNeil and VJackson). That seems the least likely scenario of the bunch.

It's a gamble for him no matter what; he could take the "sure" $3M, which of course is only $3M if there's an agreement on a CBA and there is a football season; otherwise it's zero. But in doing so he risks missing out on a potential big payday, through one of two methods I mentioned, in 2011. Could get a bad injury in 2011 and that's all he makes forever. So even taking the sure thing is a risk for him. As long as he's taking a risk, he might as well go with what seems most likely to happen and sign nothing until a new CBA is hammered out (naturally, unless the Jets come to him with a megadeal prior to that).

txs for the explanation

I hope he is made a priority, even tho we have scott