Integrity28 Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Wombat - seemed very contrived when he was trying to "trap" me when he already had his vote on me, then when your train got long enough he quietly moved his vote from me to you, basically telling me he didn't care which of us got lynched - so long as it was one of us. Yeah, this... VOTE WOMBAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doggin94it Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I'll let the professionals handle this one but I would saaay real cop should come forward if there is one. Dead scum day 1 and the doc's still safe and I would feel more comfortable with some people after a re-read as JC's been in a lot of discussion. Hess - in what universe would the doc know which of the two cop claimants is the "real one"? Lets say Vic shows up and counterclaims. Now what? We lynch one of them and hope to get it right? Leave them both alive and hope the doc guesses right? At best, we trade 1 for 1 - which should be the worst case scenario with a cop (cop reveals when he catches a scum). CTM, same question to you - how does a counterclaim today ensure our doc protects the real cop? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 No. Worst case, assuming JC is false claiming, we lynch JC immediately after the real cop gets randomly NK'd - so it's still that 1 for 1 trade you are ok with now. Best case, the cop reveals after a successful investigation, and we get 2 for 1 (the successful investigation, plus JC), plus the chance of more info (since the doc will know to protect the cop, rather than in a counterclaim situation, where the doc has to guess who is telling the truth). Bottom line, there's no edge to having a "real cop" reveal now, no matter how you look at it. Seriously, what do you see as the upside? assuming no roleblocker? A protected cop and our doctor not protecting scum, which is ideal for them.. that's what i see as upside.. i always bring up mass claims, and I'm not advocating one now, (not at all) but I've seen them destroy scum when pulled as early as day 1. this is not much different in that regard, get the cop protected.. i think however, that the roleblocker possibility swing this over to the other side and I agree with no counter claim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HessStation Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 No. Worst case, assuming JC is false claiming, we lynch JC immediately after the real cop gets randomly NK'd - so it's still that 1 for 1 trade you are ok with now. Best case, the cop reveals after a successful investigation, and we get 2 for 1 (the successful investigation, plus JC), plus the chance of more info (since the doc will know to protect the cop, rather than in a counterclaim situation, where the doc has to guess who is telling the truth). Bottom line, there's no edge to having a "real cop" reveal now, no matter how you look at it. Seriously, what do you see as the upside? The upside is we'd still have the cop who can tell of his investigations every day until scum can find the doc...and a dead scum...and some evidence to work with on other players from todays events/reread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicious89x Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 L O ******* L So. Is there anything to get from this train? I have to agree with doggin on the fact that if this is fake the real cop should stay under cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Uh - hell no. If there's another cop out there, they stay nice and hidden until they have at least one more scum to serve up. Worst case they get NKd before that happens, and if so, coroner reveals them as the cop and we lynch Jetscode. If JC is false-claiming, revealing now does nothing but put a target on the cop's back for no good reason. That said - Unvote. Vote I28 Sorry, monkey - but after Jetscode, you're probably the best of the remaining candidates in terms of developing information Agree that if there is another cop - stay hidden. As for killing me for information, I disagree. I think there is information that is not being discussed when taking JC's reveal at face value, I think its worth taking a look at how some people voted and nudged around my train, JC's train and the Barm train before throwing up your hands and thoughtlessly coming at me right away. The deadline is tomorrow night, not now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharrow Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 If JC isn't the cop, then the real cop should definitely stay hidden until he gets a guilty, just in case scum has a roleblocker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Hess - in what universe would the doc know which of the two cop claimants is the "real one"? Lets say Vic shows up and counterclaims. Now what? We lynch one of them and hope to get it right? Leave them both alive and hope the doc guesses right? At best, we trade 1 for 1 - which should be the worst case scenario with a cop (cop reveals when he catches a scum). CTM, same question to you - how does a counterclaim today ensure our doc protects the real cop? I'd lynch JC, in my mind, it's way more unlikely that we found and near lynched the cop then it is that scum counter claimed cop.. i don't really see that trade as advantageous for them on day 1. particularly if there's a godfather Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HessStation Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Hess - in what universe would the doc know which of the two cop claimants is the "real one"? Lets say Vic shows up and counterclaims. Now what? We lynch one of them and hope to get it right? Leave them both alive and hope the doc guesses right? At best, we trade 1 for 1 - which should be the worst case scenario with a cop (cop reveals when he catches a scum). CTM, same question to you - how does a counterclaim today ensure our doc protects the real cop? Good point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pac Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 The upside is we'd still have the cop who can tell of his investigations every day until scum can find the doc...and a dead scum...and some evidence to work with on other players from todays events/reread. yeah but again.. you'd have to choose the RIGHT cop to lynch. I've been on both ends of that claim before and if you get it right you can take the town for a ride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharrow Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I want to go back to Barm, tbh. Someone said it before; its not about information, its about principle. And if JC is really the cop, we should be able to learn something from his near-lynch, so its not like we're completely in the dark. vote:Barm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 No. Worst case, assuming JC is false claiming, we lynch JC immediately after the real cop gets randomly NK'd - so it's still that 1 for 1 trade you are ok with now. Best case, the cop reveals after a successful investigation, and we get 2 for 1 (the successful investigation, plus JC), plus the chance of more info (since the doc will know to protect the cop, rather than in a counterclaim situation, where the doc has to guess who is telling the truth). Bottom line, there's no edge to having a "real cop" reveal now, no matter how you look at it. Seriously, what do you see as the upside? I have to think it through some more... My initial feeling is that cop for one scum isn't bad, and it's concrete. In such a big game, I don't know how many positive investigations we're going to get out of the cop, anyway. If JC is lying, then the doc is protecting scum tonight, leaving himself (and the real cop) exposed to a random shot. Hopefully we get into a new room with some positive results (I think one time investigation was one of the possibilities mentioned). Pac makes a good point about the role blocker, though, too. Really don't want to be led around by a fake cop, either. But that's a personal thing. I won't push either way. If there is a real cop, and (s)he feels safer keeping hidden, then I think that's the best route for that person to take. If they want to expose JC now, I think that works, too. Don't see it as black & white at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pac Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I'm hesitant to vote I28 because it's fun to argue with him but the writing is on the wall. With a hard deadline set for tomorrow, a number of quiet players, and people dug in on him, I don't think there's enough time to start another train. Vote I28 if you're scum I take back the fun to argue with you part and may god have mercy on your soul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I'd lynch JC, in my mind, it's way more unlikely that we found and near lynched the cop then it is that scum counter claimed cop.. i don't really see that trade as advantageous for them on day 1. particularly if there's a godfather So you think ... 1. the real cop should reveal if there is one or 2. we should lynch the claimed cop Either way, the true cop ends up identified and dead, relatively soon. Maybe I am just a dumb monkey after all, because neither of these options seem good for the town. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HessStation Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I'd lynch JC, in my mind, it's way more unlikely that we found and near lynched the cop then it is that scum counter claimed cop.. i don't really see that trade as advantageous for them on day 1. particularly if there's a godfather A big part of me is agreeing with this. He'd be dead anyway and chances are we still lynch town today and you most like have 2 dead town (one being the cop) anyway. It's a roll of the dice whether or not you really want to believe we actually picked the cop to lynch day 1. That would be some bad luck. Considering this game with the levers maybe town gets some help to offset this if in fact JC really is the cop. Again a big part of me wants to roll the dice and just lynch him to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 So you think ... 1. the real cop should reveal if there is one or 2. we should lynch the claimed cop Either way, the true cop ends up identified and dead, relatively soon. Maybe I am just a dumb monkey after all, because neither of these options seem good for the town. huh.. i said if a cop did couner claim, i'd lynch JC but prior to that, i said pac brought up a good point about a role blocker and backed off a cop should counter claim stance.. don't try and get cute, funky monkey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HessStation Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 yeah but again.. you'd have to choose the RIGHT cop to lynch. I've been on both ends of that claim before and if you get it right you can take the town for a ride. Yeah I agree if there is a real cop to stay hidden now. But I'm still thinking lynching JC, although it comes with some risk, isn't a bad idea still.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 A big part of me is agreeing with this. He'd be dead anyway and chances are we still lynch town today and you most like have 2 dead town (one being the cop) anyway. It's a roll of the dice whether or not you really want to believe we actually picked the cop to lynch day 1. That would be some bad luck. Considering this game with the levers maybe town gets some help to offset this if in fact JC really is the cop. Again a big part of me wants to roll the dice and just lynch him to see. to kang'firm.. pac's point about a roleblocker changed my opinion.. i no longer think a real cop should come forward, it they are out there.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HessStation Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 So you think ... 1. the real cop should reveal if there is one or 2. we should lynch the claimed cop Either way, the true cop ends up identified and dead, relatively soon. Maybe I am just a dumb monkey after all, because neither of these options seem good for the town. No bc it's not an "and" it's an "or" as you've stated. He's not saying to do both. He's thinking two different scenerios not both together if we did #2 and he's lying real cop is still safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 huh.. i said if a cop did couner claim, i'd lynch JC but prior to that, i said pac brought up a good point about a role blocker and backed off a cop should counter claim stance.. don't try and get cute, funky monkey I'm not, I'm asking if I'm understanding both statements you've made clearly - you don't always write out your thoughts as clearly as you think you do. That's all. My focus is on Wombat right now, I do think the point I raised about him with my vote is a valid "non-monkey" observation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Yeah I agree if there is a real cop to stay hidden now. But I'm still thinking lynching JC, although it comes with some risk, isn't a bad idea still.. I would have expected the Cop to work harder to get himself out of heat, he seemed to do nothing but make it worse. By nature I am a bluff caller, but I'm not really positioned well to call one right now... given that even the smarter players are just defaulting to me now, without even thinking about what transpired to get JC to 10 votes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Yeah I agree if there is a real cop to stay hidden now. But I'm still thinking lynching JC, although it comes with some risk, isn't a bad idea still.. I'm pretty sure that's just a bad idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I'm not, I'm asking if I'm understanding both statements you've made clearly - you don't always write out your thoughts as clearly as you think you do. That's all. My focus is on Wombat right now, I do think the point I raised about him with my vote is a valid "non-monkey" observation. i'm a computer programmer by trade.. you try writing sh*t like the below all day and still speaking proper english return Items.Any(i => i.ShipsToCanada == false && i.CanOrder) ? false : true; RewriteRule ^([^.?]+[^.?/])$ $1/ [R,L] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pac Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Yeah I agree if there is a real cop to stay hidden now. But I'm still thinking lynching JC, although it comes with some risk, isn't a bad idea still.. I dunno Hess that's super crazy sh-t right there - kinda funny though. The downside to lynching a real cop far outweighs the upside of getting lucky and nabbing scum. If we already have 1 or 2 in the bag that's one thing but assuming JC is legit and is quietly protected by the Doc he can keep investigating away until he nabs one or more of them. Basically if he's legit and chooses his investigations wisely this game could be over a lot quicker than I would have thought a couple hours ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 i'm a computer programmer by trade.. you try writing sh*t like the below all day and still speaking proper english return Items.Any(i => i.ShipsToCanada == false && i.CanOrder) ? false : true; RewriteRule ^([^.?]+[^.?/])$ $1/ [R,L] I know, I know... that's why I asked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HessStation Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I'm pretty sure that's just a bad idea. FU for the swarmy wink btw. I guess if I think through a little more maybe not but he's probably dead anyway, unless you want the doc protecting possible scum for possibly the next few nights while they have free reign to possibly hunt and connect on the unprotected doc (as that's usually what the doc does is protect him/herself early). I'm not good with percentages and that's really all this comes down to but it's not an automatic either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I have to think it through some more... My initial feeling is that cop for one scum isn't bad, and it's concrete. In such a big game, I don't know how many positive investigations we're going to get out of the cop, anyway. If JC is lying, then the doc is protecting scum tonight, leaving himself (and the real cop) exposed to a random shot. Hopefully we get into a new room with some positive results (I think one time investigation was one of the possibilities mentioned). Pac makes a good point about the role blocker, though, too. Really don't want to be led around by a fake cop, either. But that's a personal thing. I won't push either way. If there is a real cop, and (s)he feels safer keeping hidden, then I think that's the best route for that person to take. If they want to expose JC now, I think that works, too. Don't see it as black & white at all. I have to believe this game is rolled up, I personally believe in the counter. However, I do agree, that said person should play what they feel comfortable with...so I'm with ya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharrow Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Good point about the doc being unprotected as well as the cop if JC is lying. Also could be an SK or 3rd party potentially doubling the chances of one of them dying. Maybe it would be better to counter afterall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 FU for the swarmy wink btw. I guess if I think through a little more maybe not but he's probably dead anyway, unless you want the doc protecting possible scum for possibly the next few nights while they have free reign to possibly hunt and connect on the unprotected doc (as that's usually what the doc does is protect him/herself early). I'm not good with percentages and that's really all this comes down to but it's not an automatic either way. I was gonna go with the basic, , but I thought the wink was better. Lynching JC, you're probably lynching the cop. Be a ballsy move to guess he's lying without a counter claim, and it's not one I feel comfortable about. Agree that I don't like the doc possibly being exposed while protecting scum, but the scum still have to guess right among 16 or so players to hit the doc or real cop. This is why I don't think a counter claim (if there is a real cop out there) is a bad idea. I don't think scum would counter. They'd be effectively killing off one of their own in a speed lynch tomorrow. But just lynching JC without anyone else stepping forward to claim cop doesn't work, IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWWombat Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 A real cop obviously shouldn't counter. From roleblocking to mafia kills (normal or unblockable) and/or cults there are a lot of reasons we don't want a real cop outed. For what it's worth though, I believe Jetscode. He definitely could have played it better though. Reminds me of my first game actually. Lily was the cop and got herself voted on purpose in order to out herself. She ended up getting recruited by the mafia. Needless to say, town lost that game. Brb with a gotcha post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 A real cop obviously shouldn't counter. From roleblocking to mafia kills (normal or unblockable) and/or cults there are a lot of reasons we don't want a real cop outed. For what it's worth though, I believe Jetscode. He definitely could have played it better though. Reminds me of my first game actually. Lily was the cop and got herself voted on purpose in order to out herself. She ended up getting recruited by the mafia. Needless to say, town lost that game. Brb with a gotcha post. @ Lily-Mod: Is there conversion/recruitment in this game? Would you tell us beforehand if there was? Wasn't even thinking about that angle at all.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWWombat Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 hrmm.. makes sense with the different, arrogant play style (like you knew you wouldn't be lynched)... still.. if there's another cop out there, they should counter imo for now i believe Interesting phrasing there. "Another cop." Not the phrasing a townie in doubt of Jetscode's alignment would use. Big Freudian slip. Ladies and gentlemen, I have found scum. UNVOTE VOTE CTM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 UNOFFICIAL Not sure how accurate this is, but here is what I counted... AFTER Cop reveal Jetscode (5) – AVM, JVoR, Song, Hess, Dan X I28 (8) – JC, Verbal, JiF, CTM, Slats, SMC, Doggin, Pac Barm (2) – Vicious, Sharrow Gato (1) – BG BG (1) – Gato Wombat (1) - I28 CTM (1) - Wombat Not voting: Barm, JF80, Brett Before Cop reveal: Jetscode (10) – AVM, JVoR, Brett, I28, Song, Doggin, Wombat, Hess, Pac, Dan X I28 (6) – JC, Verbal, JiF, CTM, Slats, SMC Barm (1) – Vicious Gato (1) – BG BG (1) – Gato Not voting: Sharrow, Barm, JF80 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HessStation Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 A real cop obviously shouldn't counter. From roleblocking to mafia kills (normal or unblockable) and/or cults there are a lot of reasons we don't want a real cop outed. For what it's worth though, I believe Jetscode. He definitely could have played it better though. Reminds me of my first game actually. Lily was the cop and got herself voted on purpose in order to out herself. She ended up getting recruited by the mafia. Needless to say, town lost that game. Brb with a gotcha post. That's another thing, what if he is the real cop and can be recruited...I'm tempted/willing to bet against the percentages that he is the real cop in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Interesting phrasing there. "Another cop." Not the phrasing a townie in doubt of Jetscode's alignment would use. Big Freudian slip. Ladies and gentlemen, I have found scum. UNVOTE VOTE CTM lol... hahahahaha... cartoonish... "if there's another cop out there".. pretty clear what the means.. nice paraphrasing though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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