Scarface Mafia - The World is Yours

[Integrity28]

*sigh*

Take a step back and breathe. Mathematically speaking, DPR is more likely to be town than GF. For ****'s sake get that through your skull.

Forget whether we disagree on reasons for Nae's lynch - bottom line is DPR is a known quantity now. We can deal with him when we need to.

So you keep saying forget about the reason's for Nae's lynch. Except that was the subject you called me out on. I commented on how releasing 1-timer investigation results contributed to her lynch, you said it didn't, the 3-4 people that voted her last said it did. You were wrong... about a pretty blatant detail on Nae's lynch.

You are now trying to parlay being wrong into a debate on DPR. I'm not getting sucked in. I know the math side of it. I think that is a weak argument given his play. Townies, especially experienced players, DO NOT ask to be investigated, especially when all they are touting is a 1-shot vig attempt that won't be rewarded until D4. Play like that trumps the odds you are clinging to. If I'm wrong, so be it. I'm not opening that can of worms right now.

"I like balls on my face".

For some reason, I've always wanted to post that.

Congrats on your accomplishment. I'll notify JIF immediately.

[Vicious89x]

irregardless of that, why would scum trade 1 for 1 for the doc, and short circuit what seemed like a nearly certain crusher lynch?

as dpr says, book says to protect the doc, but docs story smells like the apes computer room after a good poo flinging session

Why not?

My only feeling is that if JVoR flips Doc we're pretty well ****ed. How many more protective roles do you think we have with 2 possible teams out there.

[DPR]

The last post count before JC's reveal:

His reveal, and his first post of D3:

Only reason I asked is to see if he'd been posting during Crusher's train, and THEN decided to reveal. Seems like he posted his results the first time he checked in.

Got this far. It's exactly what I was thinking. You get your first star of the game.

I also like the 2 team theory. There is way too much smoke and not enough fire - and that's a good sign of 2 teams.

[HessStation]

VOTE DPR

Ha you've been on point all game. Good poiint. LOL if Nae picked the GF two games in a row with a one time investigation.

[Integrity28]

Simple, chimpy:

If JVoR is the Doc, his actions make sense to me.

If JVoR is the SK, they do not.

This in no way explains why you are arguing Smash so intently.

All you've done here is express what we are all contemplating.

[Sharrow]

You guys overvalue power roles. Imo, the doc should be volunteering to be lynched if it can net us 2 scum. Same with any power role. And if there really is an SK, then it means there's probably only 4 scum. I'd give up any role to bag half a scum team.

[Integrity28]

Got this far. It's exactly what I was thinking. You get your first star of the game.

I also like the 2 team theory. There is way too much smoke and not enough fire - and that's a good sign of 2 teams.

Heh. Thanks.

I'm still the worst player ever... but I'm better when I'm not arguing relentlessly. EVERYONE knows that... especially CTM, that is why I thought he was goading me into bickering, because he usually doesn't when he's town, he knows it's my downfall and terrible for the town. I'm probably right, but whatever...

[HessStation]

You guys overvalue power roles. Imo, the doc should be volunteering to be lynched if it can net us 2 scum. Same with any power role. And if there really is an SK, then it means there's probably only 4 scum. I'd give up any role to bag half a scum team.

Ha wait for it wait for it...."THAT'S SOOOO SCUMMY!!!!" ...but I agree..

[Vicious89x]

You guys overvalue power roles. Imo, the doc should be volunteering to be lynched if it can net us 2 scum. Same with any power role. And if there really is an SK, then it means there's probably only 4 scum. I'd give up any role to bag half a scum team.

Because you're sold that Crusher is scum too?

[AVM]

Question -- do we really think there could be two scum teams AND an SK?

[Sharrow]

Because you're sold that Crusher is scum too?

If JC is scum, then I think Crusher is too for sure. Otherwise, he lets Crusher get lynched and pulls this tomorrow instead.

[Vicious89x]

Question -- do we really think there could be two scum teams AND an SK?

I 100% believe there's 2 teams

If JC is scum, then I think Crusher is too for sure. Otherwise, he lets Crusher get lynched and pulls this tomorrow instead.

So you feel if we kill JVoR then those 2 are 100% linked?

[DPR]

You guys overvalue power roles. Imo, the doc should be volunteering to be lynched if it can net us 2 scum. Same with any power role. And if there really is an SK, then it means there's probably only 4 scum. I'd give up any role to bag half a scum team.

Dude, you know better than that. There is no overvaluing power roles in mafia. That's like saying that someone overvalued their gun in a shootout.

The Mafia Bible clearly states that the town will protect their Power Roles dearly, because they are the only advantage that they have.

The Doc should never, never volunteer to be lynched. That's like asking the QB to block - WTF? The Doc does one thing, and needs to stay alive until endgame - it's vital.

Having said that, yours is not the worst of the complete horsesh*t I see coming from the rest of the teste-garglers. Smash wins the prize for consecutive worst posts of the game, and JC is dancing pretty well, but the newness still shows. TOm, I can only chuckle at where your going with your vote.I saw it. I thought it, and it would just like Pac to throw a little Mod wifom into the mix.

Anyway, I look at it this way:

We have two situations that can turn up a positive scum result - the Hess/Crusher choice or the JC/JVoR choice. Hess made a big deal to tell us about Crusher, and is too experienced a player to bluff on something like that. He knows he'd die if Crush lynched Town.

On the other hand, either JC or JVoR is scum as well. It didn't escape me that JVoR might claim Doc to see if the real Doc would reveal - and a counter reveal should NOT be made - so I am torn on these two. But, we do have one.

So, I'm sticking with my Crusher vote, based simply on the fact that asking the game to wait until 8 or 9 is complet sh*t. He knows that. He could have just as easily said "I'm blah, I do blah. If you don't like it, suck it. I'll be back at 9."

Asking for an "extension" and then watching the the JC/JVoR show just doesn't sit well with me.

My vote stays.

[Integrity28]

If JC is scum, then I think Crusher is too for sure. Otherwise, he lets Crusher get lynched and pulls this tomorrow instead.

Agree. If JC was scum and Crusher is not, he'd just let this lynch go through. If JC is scum, the ONLY reason for his timing is that Crusher is scum too...

That is why I honestly think JC is probably town and he unveiled his results the fist chance he got, regardless of what was going on with Crusher's train.

Unvote

Vote JVOR

I ABSOLUTELY think JVOR would false claim Doc as the SK. This is the same JVOR who had an epic lie as town based on a hunch...

[Smashmouth]

By the way, these posts are why I jumped on you. Of course the Doc would counter right away, especially as quick as this town lynches viewed people. You should know this....so either you're scum, or as dumb as Pac says you are. sh*tmouth.

You do realize Crusher was at L-2 when all this went down so at that point what idiot would reveal ? What would be the point ? Thats why I was saying the Doc should have had time. My arguement is that JVOR knew exactly what he was doing and had this Play worked out specificaly for this situation. It would not have been that difficult for someone to think this out. Unless of course it was you . I dont make it a habit of calling people dumb mother****ers but so far in this game there have been some bad plays IMO we all make em . In this case , however, I dont believe JVOR at all and I dont think JC would risk 2 scum players in his reveal either which would also be a pretty stupid thing to do. Vote how you like verbal

[DPR]

Also, FWIW, I AM AWESOME. But, I am not a Godfather. I am Town. I am not a role that reads town, but is scum. If there is an LD, that hopefully will do...

[Pac]

Official Vote Count:

Crusher - (5) JiF, DPR, CTM, SMC, Hess

DanX - (1) Crusher

AVM - (1) Wombat

JVoR- (5) JC, Smash, Sharrow, Wombat, Ape

Jetscode - (4) JVOR, Vic, BG, AVM

DPR - (1) Tomshane

with 18 maricons alive, it takes 10 to lynch

[Vicious89x]

Guh. The more DPR talks the more I want to vote JVoR.

[Dan.]

I admit I'm reading this fairly quickly so apologies if I've missed something ..

Didn't like the way Crusher responded to pressure earlier, felt to me like he was trying to buy time, harping on the same point over and over, and possibly trying to get input from his teammates on what to reveal. (Granted, i don't think as scum he would have intentionally hammered Naeann, but I didn't like that he was trying to pin it on me as if I intentionally sneaked in mere seconds before him when it was 5 minutes and Integrity voted in between us.) I still think Naeann's lynch made the most sense from the information that we had at the time anyway, and I find it weird from some of the people who popped in after the fact in perhaps "mock outrage."

I can see JVOR fake claiming doc if he's caught as SK, but I would expect it to be more halfhearted than this. I don't see him going through all the trouble of continuing to argue unless he gains something by surviving the night or, like others ahve suggested, he is part of a team. Jetscode's posts have rung more genuine to me as a whole.

Also hard to read people's reactions to it because scum would have incentive to push JVOR's lynch either way ... they're getting rid of the SK or the doc. And then of course if he's lying, our real doc is going to be pushing to lynch him as well, so I'm not sure what to make of those responses.

This scenario makes some sense, especially if Crusher as scum has some kind of power that's more central to the team (for example, if JC's ability was to find the SK and now it's used up).

also, i think logically bleedin's suggestion makes the most sense (if jetscode is scum). All the pieces fit together.

Scum rolefound Jvor the SK

Crusher scum was about to go down

Jetscode scum claims FBI to vet himself/save crusher, also refuses to confirm or deny future powers, which may allow him to clear Crusher later and/or explain being alive (they think i'm roleless??)

That being said, it's entirely possible people aren't playing logically too..

there just seems to need to be too many unlikely things that need to occur for jvor's story to be true..

scum would have to be willing to sacrifice someone who was under absolutely no pressure to kill the doctor, and spare/implicate the crush fat. We've never seen a team do anything like this unless there's a clear path to end game (which there isn't at this point)

another thought, maybe both are third party?

Can't remember what else I wanted to say.

[AVM]

I 100% believe there's 2 teams

So you feel if we kill JVoR then those 2 are 100% linked?

I know this isn't directed at me, but I just wanted to give my input. One thing I've learned playing mafia here: Unless the mod has confirmed it, NOTHING is 100%.

Dude, you know better than that. There is no overvaluing power roles in mafia. That's like saying that someone overvalued their gun in a shootout.

The Mafia Bible clearly states that the town will protect their Power Roles dearly, because they are the only advantage that they have.

The Doc should never, never volunteer to be lynched. That's like asking the QB to block - WTF? The Doc does one thing, and needs to stay alive until endgame - it's vital.

Having said that, yours is not the worst of the complete horsesh*t I see coming from the rest of the teste-garglers. Smash wins the prize for consecutive worst posts of the game, and JC is dancing pretty well, but the newness still shows. TOm, I can only chuckle at where your going with your vote.I saw it. I thought it, and it would just like Pac to throw a little Mod wifom into the mix.

Anyway, I look at it this way:

We have two situations that can turn up a positive scum result - the Hess/Crusher choice or the JC/JVoR choice. Hess made a big deal to tell us about Crusher, and is too experienced a player to bluff on something like that. He knows he'd die if Crush lynched Town.

On the other hand, either JC or JVoR is scum as well. It didn't escape me that JVoR might claim Doc to see if the real Doc would reveal - and a counter reveal should NOT be made - so I am torn on these two. But, we do have one.

So, I'm sticking with my Crusher vote, based simply on the fact that asking the game to wait until 8 or 9 is complet sh*t. He knows that. He could have just as easily said "I'm blah, I do blah. If you don't like it, suck it. I'll be back at 9."

Asking for an "extension" and then watching the the JC/JVoR show just doesn't sit well with me.

My vote stays.

No one could counter, as he was the 2nd reveal of the day. That's the point several are making against him, that he did it to protect himself. However, if he WAS the doc it was the right call to go ahead and claim. If someone else claimed ANYTHING first, even if SMC simply confirmed he had a PR, then we're screwed, and he's dying as the doc without ever getting to reveal. The argument goes both ways.

[DPR]

You do realize Crusher was at L-2 when all this went down so at that point what idiot would reveal ? What would be the point ? Thats why I was saying the Doc should have had time. My arguement is that JVOR knew exactly what he was doing and had this Play worked out specificaly for this situation. It would not have been that difficult for someone to think this out. Unless of course it was you . I dont make it a habit of calling people dumb mother****ers but so far in this game there have been some bad plays IMO we all make em . In this case , however, I dont believe JVOR at all and I dont think JC would risk 2 scum players in his reveal either which would also be a pretty stupid thing to do. Vote how you like verbal

Braniac, did my train not derail at L2 less than 24 hours ago? WTF? Desperate times call for dramatic plays - it's a major reason to try and make dramatic plays.

I called your teachers and talked to them about you attending some remedial mafia classes. They agreed that it was a good idea.

[Integrity28]

Dude, you know better than that. There is no overvaluing power roles in mafia. That's like saying that someone overvalued their gun in a shootout.

The Mafia Bible clearly states that the town will protect their Power Roles dearly, because they are the only advantage that they have.

The Doc should never, never volunteer to be lynched. That's like asking the QB to block - WTF? The Doc does one thing, and needs to stay alive until endgame - it's vital.

Having said that, yours is not the worst of the complete horsesh*t I see coming from the rest of the teste-garglers. Smash wins the prize for consecutive worst posts of the game, and JC is dancing pretty well, but the newness still shows. TOm, I can only chuckle at where your going with your vote.I saw it. I thought it, and it would just like Pac to throw a little Mod wifom into the mix.

Anyway, I look at it this way:

We have two situations that can turn up a positive scum result - the Hess/Crusher choice or the JC/JVoR choice. Hess made a big deal to tell us about Crusher, and is too experienced a player to bluff on something like that. He knows he'd die if Crush lynched Town.

On the other hand, either JC or JVoR is scum as well. It didn't escape me that JVoR might claim Doc to see if the real Doc would reveal - and a counter reveal should NOT be made - so I am torn on these two. But, we do have one.

So, I'm sticking with my Crusher vote, based simply on the fact that asking the game to wait until 8 or 9 is complet sh*t. He knows that. He could have just as easily said "I'm blah, I do blah. If you don't like it, suck it. I'll be back at 9."

Asking for an "extension" and then watching the the JC/JVoR show just doesn't sit well with me.

My vote stays.

Lynching Crusher and getting his alignment would inform who to believe out of JC/JVOR. My concern is that this approach allows for an additional SK attempt if JVOR is in fact the SK.

Also, its well established that both reveals are used up today. So a Doc counter claim wouldn't happen until next day, and this mess will be resolved by them I hope.

[Dan.]

Oh yeah this is less relevant at the moment but if the hider role works as CTM described it, my guess would be slats hid either with I28 or possibly Hess. At least he seemed pretty sold on Integrity, and Hess was looking pretty clean and doesn't seem like there would be a reason for him to get NKed either. Idk, though, he could have picked someone quieter too, but that only makes sense if he doesn't die when they get NKed.

[DPR]

I know this isn't directed at me, but I just wanted to give my input. One thing I've learned playing mafia here: Unless the mod has confirmed it, NOTHING is 100%.

No one could counter, as he was the 2nd reveal of the day. That's the point several are making against him, that he did it to protect himself. However, if he WAS the doc it was the right call to go ahead and claim. If someone else claimed ANYTHING first, even if SMC simply confirmed he had a PR, then we're screwed, and he's dying as the doc without ever getting to reveal. The argument goes both ways.

Yup - gotta get used to the 2 reveal limit.

[Integrity28]

If JVOR flips Doc, they traded us 2 scum for our Doc. (Like Sharrow said earlier.)

Scum team could just be epically stupid... after all DPR is likely running the show for them.

[Sharrow]

I 100% believe there's 2 teams

So you feel if we kill JVoR then those 2 are 100% linked?

Well, technically, no. Crusher could still be scum if JC is town. Just not the other way around, imo.

[DPR]

Lynching Crusher and getting his alignment would inform who to believe out of JC/JVOR. My concern is that this approach allows for an additional SK attempt if JVOR is in fact the SK.

Also, its well established that both reveals are used up today. So a Doc counter claim wouldn't happen until next day, and this mess will be resolved by them I hope.

I overlooked that - my mistake.

It's a good play- did JC label JVoR as SK because they knew he was a healer? Or did JVoR false claim the role that wouldn't be risked?

FTR, now we're playing mafia!

[DPR]

If JVOR flips Doc, they traded us 2 scum for our Doc. (Like Sharrow said earlier.)

Scum team could just be epically stupid... after all DPR is likely running the show for them.

Oh yeah, I forgot to tell you - suck it.

[AVM]

Also, FWIW, I AM AWESOME. But, I am not a Godfather. I am Town. I am not a role that reads town, but is scum. If there is an LD, that hopefully will do...

I doubt we have a LD AGAIN (last game was the first time we actually had one, fwiw), but I think the mod would LIKELY make a GF immune to the LD as well.

Guh. The more DPR talks the more I want to vote JVoR.

Don't let him cloud your judgement, Saiyan.

I admit I'm reading this fairly quickly so apologies if I've missed something ..

Didn't like the way Crusher responded to pressure earlier, felt to me like he was trying to buy time, harping on the same point over and over, and possibly trying to get input from his teammates on what to reveal. (Granted, i don't think as scum he would have intentionally hammered Naeann, but I didn't like that he was trying to pin it on me as if I intentionally sneaked in mere seconds before him when it was 5 minutes and Integrity voted in between us.) I still think Naeann's lynch made the most sense from the information that we had at the time anyway, and I find it weird from some of the people who popped in after the fact in perhaps "mock outrage."

I can see JVOR fake claiming doc if he's caught as SK, but I would expect it to be more halfhearted than this. I don't see him going through all the trouble of continuing to argue unless he gains something by surviving the night or, like others ahve suggested, he is part of a team. Jetscode's posts have rung more genuine to me as a whole.

Also hard to read people's reactions to it because scum would have incentive to push JVOR's lynch either way ... they're getting rid of the SK or the doc. And then of course if he's lying, our real doc is going to be pushing to lynch him as well, so I'm not sure what to make of those responses.

This scenario makes some sense, especially if Crusher as scum has some kind of power that's more central to the team (for example, if JC's ability was to find the SK and now it's used up).

Can't remember what else I wanted to say.

One thing -- IF theres a big scum team and not two teams (and I'm starting to lean towards two teams), they would likely want the SK around for a while to help take out town numbers. The only exception would be if they tried to gain credibility with the town by killing the SK. How would they figure this out? Scum tracker/watcher looks at slats last night, their kill is blocked, and JVoR visited slats.

If there are small teams however, in a 22 man game they likely assumed there were two teams quite early on, and I doubt they'd go so far as to assume there was an SK as well (One kill on both nights, CTM claims to have survived day 1, and someone was protected/blocked last night...can't be an SK and two teams). I doubt they'd even bring up an SK. After all, if JVoR flips scum and not SK...then JC would have to be scum as well. He claimed FBI agent, who doesn't look for scum -- only the SK.

[Smashmouth]

Braniac, did my train not derail at L2 less than 24 hours ago? WTF? Desperate times call for dramatic plays - it's a major reason to try and make dramatic plays.

I called your teachers and talked to them about you attending some remedial mafia classes. They agreed that it was a good idea.

Listen you bafoon When JC revealed at crusher L-2 what would be the reason for anyone other than the accused (JVOR) to ******* reveal ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? Please explain that to me. Please stop ******* skimming and read the god damn thread, THERE WAS NO ******* REASON for JVOR to rush in a reveal because there was no reason for anyone else to reveal. Do you think a freakin scum would be that stupid to block a reveal with a reveal that made no god damn sense to do at the time ???? Holy sh*t.

[Sharrow]

Oh yeah this is less relevant at the moment but if the hider role works as CTM described it, my guess would be slats hid either with I28 or possibly Hess. At least he seemed pretty sold on Integrity, and Hess was looking pretty clean and doesn't seem like there would be a reason for him to get NKed either. Idk, though, he could have picked someone quieter too, but that only makes sense if he doesn't die when they get NKed.

Also I would assume that he couldn't hide with the same person each night, or in consecutive nights at least, otherwise he would hide with the same person each night.

[Dan.]

I'm confident there would have to be something more to JVOR if he's lying. The more that I think about it, he would no way go through the trouble of claiming doc and continuing to fight his lynch unless he gains something by it. Otherwise his attitude would be more "bleh I don't care." As it is, he gets tired of arguing with people as town, and that's a time when he's somewhat working on behalf of a team. He despises the survivor role and barely tries when he's on his own, and I just don't see him bullsh*tting this hard for one measly kill. If it's another team, would it be called an SK role though? That's confusing me.

[Pac]

"Hey, bring the car around cabron... I want to go to Scaramouche... I want to dance."

"You sure you want to go out boss? You've been going at the yayo for 20 hours or so."

"GET MY CAR OR I KEEL JOO MARICON! EYENG GOING OUT!"

[Dan.]

Also I would assume that he couldn't hide with the same person each night, or in consecutive nights at least, otherwise he would hide with the same person each night.

That would make sense, too.

[Vicious89x]

Gym time. Be on later.