Another angle to Tanny's genius

[gangreenman]

So, Ive been thinking a little bit about the makeup of the Jets roster. Of course, we have all heard a lot of the "quality over quantity" in drafts, how he focuses on "buying free agents" and "mortgaging the future" and all that.

But lets look at the Jets roster, especially the important positions, now and down the road (next year).

Below is our starting offense as of today, in parenthesis is method acquired.

QB: Mark Sanchez (drafted by Jets)

FB: John Connor (drafted by Jets

HB: Shonn Greene (drafted by Jets)

C: Nick Mangold (drafted by Jets)

LG: Matt Slausen (drafted by Jets)

LT: D'brickeshaw Ferguson (drafted by Jets)

RG: Brandon Moore (signed UDFA by Jets)

RT: Robert Turner (signed UDFA by Jets)

TE: Dustin Keller (drafted by Jets)

WR1: Santonio Homes (Trade with steelers for 5th rd draft pick)

WR2 Plaxico Burress (Signed in Free Agency)

So, of 11 starters on offense...9 of them were either drafted or signed undrafted by the Jets. The only exceptions being an obvious band-aid one year contract of Plax, and Santonio Holmes, who some may argue we acquired through the draft as he only costed a 5th rounder.... Furthermore both back up OL (Hunter and Ducasse) were also drafted by the Jets... as were WR's 3-5. 2 of the backup 3 RBs (Powell, McKnight) were also drafted by the Jets.The 3rd (Tomlinson) has one year remaining on his contract.

Now, on to defense....Assuming we play a 3/4, this is my guess as to what would be the starting lineup as of today...

CB1 Darelle Revis (drafted by Jets)

CB2 Antonio Cromartie (traded for 2nd round draft pick)

OLB: Bryan Thomas (drafted by Jets)

ILB: David Harris (drafted by Jets)

ILB: Bart Scott (signed in Free Agency)

OLB: Calvin Pace (signed in Free Agency)

DT: Sione Pouha (drafted by Jets)

DE1: Mohammed Wilkerson (drafted by Jets)

DE2:Ropati Pitoitua (signed undrafted by Jets)

SS: Jim Leonhard (signed in Free Agency)

FS: Eric Smith (drafted by Jets)

That is 7 of 11 starters that were either drafted or signed undrafted by the Jets. Again, some may count cro as an eighth as he was only acquired for a 2nd rd draft pick.

So, thats 16 out of 22 starters on the Jets were drafted or signed undrafted by the Jets (not counting Cro or Holmes). People say that the best way to sustain success in this league is through the draft. So while Tanny has been busy signing big name FA's and making splashy trades... It has gone unnoticed that when these big name players leave the team, there's a fully developed, home grown player ready to take over and be effective. That, ladies and gentlemen, is why Mike Tannenbaum may arguably be the best hire/signing in Jets history, and is arguably the best GM in the business.

[TNJet]

So, Ive been thinking a little bit about the makeup of the Jets roster. Of course, we have all heard a lot of the "quality over quantity" in drafts, how he focuses on "buying free agents" and "mortgaging the future" and all that.

But lets look at the Jets roster, especially the important positions, now and down the road (next year).

Below is our starting offense as of today, in parenthesis is method acquired.

QB: Mark Sanchez (drafted by Jets)

FB: John Connor (drafted by Jets

HB: Shonn Greene (drafted by Jets)

C: Nick Mangold (drafted by Jets)

LG: Matt Slausen (drafted by Jets)

LT: D'brickeshaw Ferguson (drafted by Jets)

RG: Brandon Moore (signed UDFA by Jets)

RT: Robert Turner (drafted by Jets

TE: Dustin Keller (drafted by Jets)

WR1: Santonio Homes (Trade with steelers for 5th rd draft pick)

WR2 Plaxico Burress (Signed in Free Agency)

So, of 11 starters on offense...9 of them were either drafted or signed undrafted by the Jets. The only exceptions being an obvious band-aid one year contract of Plax, and Santonio Holmes, who some may argue we acquired through the draft as he only costed a 5th rounder.... Furthermore both back up OL (Hunter and Ducasse) were also drafted by the Jets... as were WR's 3-5. 2 of the backup 3 RBs (Powell, McKnight) were also drafted by the Jets.The 3rd (Tomlinson) has one year remaining on his contract.

Now, on to defense....Assuming we play a 3/4, this is my guess as to what would be the starting lineup as of today...

CB1 Darelle Revis (drafted by Jets)

CB2 Antonio Cromartie (traded for 2nd round draft pick)

OLB: Bryan Thomas (drafted by Jets)

ILB: David Harris (drafted by Jets)

ILB: Bart Scott (signed in Free Agency)

OLB: Calvin Pace (signed in Free Agency)

DT: Sione Pouha (drafted by Jets)

DE1: Mohammed Wilkerson (drafted by Jets)

DE2:Ropati Pitoitua (signed undrafted by Jets)

SS: Jim Leonhard (signed in Free Agency)

FS: Eric Smith (drafted by Jets)

That is 7 of 11 starters that were either drafted or signed undrafted by the Jets. Again, some may count cro as an eighth as he was only acquired for a 2nd rd draft pick.

So, thats 16 out of 22 starters on the Jets were drafted or signed undrafted by the Jets (not counting Cro or Holmes). People say that the best way to sustain success in this league is through the draft. So while Tanny has been busy signing big name FA's and making splashy trades... It has gone unnoticed that when these big name players leave the team, there's a fully developed, home grown player ready to take over and be effective. That, ladies and gentlemen, is why Mike Tannenbaum may arguably be the best hire/signing in Jets history, and is arguably the best GM in the business.

Robert Turner wasn't drafted by the jets he was an UDFA.

[gangreenman]

Robert Turner wasn't drafted by the jets he was an UDFA.

Thanks. will edit.

[Doggin94it]

Hunter was drafted by seattle

[SoFlaJets]

"he's just a nerdy bean counter"

[Bleedin Green]

While I agree on the premise, there are a few slight issues with this, although I don't think they necessarily hurt your case. As Doggin said, Hunter was drafted by Seattle but they actually picked him up as a low-level no-name FA from Jacksonville, so I think the Jets certainly get plenty of credit for that. It's also likely that he or Ducasse will get the start at RT, not Turner. DeVito is almost a guarantee to be locked in as a starter at DE over Pitoitua, but he was also a Jets UDFA.

The fact is the Jets have gotten so much crap for their method because not only has there been a bunch of FA signings over the years, but they've also traded a lot of draft picks, be it for players or to move up in the draft, which has left them with some very small draft classes. However, on the flip side the Jets have had a great deal of success with those trade-ups which has made it work for them, while also having some pretty impressive success with finding solid depth players in the late rounds and UDFA that the lack of picks hasn't destroyed the Jets depth as many said it would.

The one position the Jets really haven't done much of anything in the draft with is WR, but they also haven't really tried either. When the Jets traded up to draft Kerley in the fifth round, it was the highest they had drafted a WR since Cotchery in the 4th round in 2004. If you want to count Brad Smith as a WR pick then that would still be the highest picked since he was taken in the 4th round in 2006. The last time the Jets spent a day one pick on a WR was Santana Moss in 2001. So under the circumstances, when the Jets try to address a position in the draft, they seem to have some pretty good success with it.

[Sperm Edwards]

I see what ggm is trying to get at, but every player on every NFL team was either drafted, signed as an UDFA, signed as a FA, or traded for. This hardly distinguishes the Jets - or any team - in that regard.

[Jetsfan80]

So under the circumstances, when the Jets try to address a position in the draft, they seem to have some pretty good success with it.

+ 1000. Remember when we flipped 7th rounder Chansi Stuckey in a deal for Braylon Edwards? Good times. Not to mention, I don't think anyone is lamenting the fact that Santonio Holmes costs us a precious 5th rounder.

[JustInFudge]

Tanny is the man.

T0mGayne is a fag.

[Bleedin Green]

I see what ggm is trying to get at, but every player on every NFL team was either drafted, signed as an UDFA, signed as a FA, or traded for. This hardly distinguishes the Jets - or any team - in that regard.

I believe the point was more about the percentage of players that were home grown talent, meaning drafted/UDFA as opposed to FA/trade, considering the Jets have routinely been criticized since Tanny took over for constantly trading away picks and signing big name FAs to build their team, which seems as though it may just be a tad exaggerated.

[Plus One]

I think if you took the time to check other NFL teams, you'd find a similar mix of draft picks, trades and free agents.

I just randomly checked the Steelers offensive depth chart. Ten of their starting eleven were drafted by the team. One was an UDFA.

Let's take it easy with the genius references until the guy wins something.

[slats]

So, Ive been thinking a little bit about the makeup of the Jets roster. Of course, we have all heard a lot of the "quality over quantity" in drafts, how he focuses on "buying free agents" and "mortgaging the future" and all that.

A big part of the whole "mortgaging the future" thing is the fact that Tannenbaum trades away a lot of draft picks.

• They traded first and second rounders plus three players to move up for Mark Sanchez.
• In that same draft, they traded third, fourth, and seventh rounders to move up to take Shonn Greene.
• They traded 2nd & 4th rounders to move up to take Dustin Keller.
• Jets traded a 1st, 2nd, and 5th to move to take Revis.
• Jets traded their 2nd, 3rd, and 6th to move up to take David Harris.

That's 13 picks plus three players already on the roster (16 total) for 5 players. I think the jury is still out on all the offensive guys. Sanchez, Revis, and Harris currently also top the Jets salary roster. A lot of picks, players, and money for those three guys.

They "only" spent a 5th rounder on Santonio Holmes, but that fifth round pick now commands a 5yr/$50M contract a year later. Pretty expensive 5th rounder.

The second rounder they spent on Cromartie now has a 4yr/$32M deal. Pretty expensive 2nd rounder.

Pace and Scott have two of the richest deals on the team.

By not keeping his picks, and finding his own gems, he has to trade or acquire thru free agency someone else's. That's the mortgaging the future angle. Trading picks now, spending a fortune for the players acquired, and having fewer developing players in the pipeline.

I'm not saying that he hasn't had success, but let's at least look at what people are really talking about.

[jason423]

I believe the point was more about the percentage of players that were home grown talent, meaning drafted/UDFA as opposed to FA/trade, considering the Jets have routinely been criticized since Tanny took over for constantly trading away picks and signing big name FAs to build their team, which seems as though it may just be a tad exaggerated.

But many of those trades are mainly to acquire players via the draft. Sanchez, Revis, Harris, Keller, and Greene were all acquired by trading picks away. The criticism of all the trades has been in regards to backup talent on the team. The Jets are a relatively top heavy team. They are more or less void of those role player type veterans on the team. Either you were a pretty good draft pick, high priced free agent trade, or minimum salary player. There isnt alot in between. The in betweens would be Leonhard, Smith, DeVito, Hunter, and Pouha, at least four of whom will be starting. Normally you want at least some of those types as depth/situational players.

[Bleedin Green]

But many of those trades are mainly to acquire players via the draft. Sanchez, Revis, Harris, Keller, and Greene were all acquired by trading picks away. The criticism of all the trades has been in regards to backup talent on the team. The Jets are a relatively top heavy team. They are more or less void of those role player type veterans on the team. Either you were a pretty good draft pick, high priced free agent trade, or minimum salary player. There isnt alot in between. The in betweens would be Leonhard, Smith, DeVito, Hunter, and Pouha, at least four of whom will be starting. Normally you want at least some of those types as depth/situational players.

I agree that's the criticism, but I'm not sure the Jets haven't done a good enough job on the minimum salary types, be it UDFAs or low level free agents, to account for that variance. How many years did we have to hear about how the Jets OL had so much invested in its starters that there was absolutely no depth? Over the past few years, both Hunter and Turner have proven themselves to be pretty good talents, with Hunter stepping in to the starting role late last year after Woody's injury. The Jets walked into last year with questions about their DL depth and with a starting lineup up of Ellis, Jenkins and Pouha, and after a handful of plays Jenkins is done for the year, Pouha slides back into NT and a UDFA DE in DeVito comes into the starting lineup and turns out to be one of the league's best run defenders.

I get what the theory behind it all is, I'm just not sure that's really what has happened in practice. Perhaps that's because the Jets have done a good job of remaining healthy overall, but it seems that they've managed to do pretty well for themselves even when health issues have come up.

[flgreen]

Hate to mention this, but a major part of all that is Bradway and Clinks.

You can give Mike T credit for keeping Bradway as his chief of scouting. It is almost unheard of for an incoming GM to keep the fired GM on the team.

Bradway was a horrible GM, but an excellent scout. He isolated all the guys they moved up for

[Plus One]

Hate to mention this, but a major part of all that is Bradway and Clinks.

You can give Mike T credit for keeping Bradway as his chief of scouting. It is almost unheard of for an incoming GM to keep the fired GM on the team.

Bradway was a horrible GM, but an excellent scout. He isolated all the guys they moved up for

That's a good point.

I've always admired the fact that Bradway was willing to step back into the role that he is clearly best at.

He was an example of the Peter Principle as GM, but he's a hell of a scout.

It takes character to relinquish the top position and then still do a good job in a "lower" position with the same organization.

[lamont_jordan_rules]

... i've said it before and i'll say it again ... we are very lucky to have mikey t. at the top of our football pyramid! ...

l_j_r

[Bleedin Green]

Hate to mention this, but a major part of all that is Bradway and Clinks.

You can give Mike T credit for keeping Bradway as his chief of scouting. It is almost unheard of for an incoming GM to keep the fired GM on the team.

Bradway was a horrible GM, but an excellent scout. He isolated all the guys they moved up for

Absolutely agree, and I actually remember being one of the few people that was actually glad he stayed on when Tanny took over. The thing I always remember about his drafts was that it seemed for a number of years in a row the Jets best picks were their late rounders. What that told you was once all of the hype was out of the equation and you were going just based on pure scouting abilities, Bradway actually knew what he was doing. He clearly just didn't have what it took to be the guy in charge of the situation, but the Jets were smart enough to know he still had something of value to contribute to the team and he was able to keep his ego from getting in the way and agreeing to it. Lots of credit to both sides on that one.

[sirlancemehlot]

A big part of the whole "mortgaging the future" thing is the fact that Tannenbaum trades away a lot of draft picks.

• They traded first and second rounders plus three players to move up for Mark Sanchez.
• In that same draft, they traded third, fourth, and seventh rounders to move up to take Shonn Greene.
• They traded 2nd & 4th rounders to move up to take Dustin Keller.
• Jets traded a 1st, 2nd, and 5th to move to take Revis.
• Jets traded their 2nd, 3rd, and 6th to move up to take David Harris.

That's 13 picks plus three players already on the roster (16 total) for 5 players. I think the jury is still out on all the offensive guys. Sanchez, Revis, and Harris currently also top the Jets salary roster. A lot of picks, players, and money for those three guys.

They "only" spent a 5th rounder on Santonio Holmes, but that fifth round pick now commands a 5yr/$50M contract a year later. Pretty expensive 5th rounder.

The second rounder they spent on Cromartie now has a 4yr/$32M deal. Pretty expensive 2nd rounder.

Pace and Scott have two of the richest deals on the team.

By not keeping his picks, and finding his own gems, he has to trade or acquire thru free agency someone else's. That's the mortgaging the future angle. Trading picks now, spending a fortune for the players acquired, and having fewer developing players in the pipeline.

I'm not saying that he hasn't had success, but let's at least look at what people are really talking about.

Excellent analysis, Slatso

If you look at Tanny's success in adding players via draft--his best work has been when he's had the most picks. In his first draft (2006), he aquired:

D'Brick, Mangold, Clemens, Shlegel, E. Smith, B. Smith, Leon Washington, Jason Pociask, Drew Coleman, Titus Adams. Clemens, Schlegel Pociask and Adams were busts. The rest became solid, even exceptional players.

2007

Revis, Harris, Bender Stuckey. Two up, Two down. 4 picks

2008

Gholston, Keller, Lowery, Ainge, Marcus Henry, Nate Garner. Keller and Lowery have been steady contributors. Gholston, Ainge, Henry and Garner were useless.

2009

Sanchez, Greene, Slauson. Sanchez has been very inconsistant (Josh Freeman was taken in the slot we vacated by trading up), Greene underused, Slauson Lunchpail. 3 picks--not much to work with.

2010

Wilson, Ducasse, McKnight, Connor. Bad draft so far. No real contibutors so far, though special teams gets a boost with Connor. 4 picks

Not an awesome haul here, mainly because of a lack of picks. The best year was the year he was able to keep all of his draft picks (2006). Subsequent years he traded his picks away and had less success in the draft. The trend has been that each year the draft has yielded us less talent/contributors than the previous year.

[Sperm Edwards]

A big part of the whole "mortgaging the future" thing is the fact that Tannenbaum trades away a lot of draft picks.

• They traded first and second rounders plus three players to move up for Mark Sanchez.
• In that same draft, they traded third, fourth, and seventh rounders to move up to take Shonn Greene.
• They traded 2nd & 4th rounders to move up to take Dustin Keller.
• Jets traded a 1st, 2nd, and 5th to move to take Revis.
• Jets traded their 2nd, 3rd, and 6th to move up to take David Harris.

That's 13 picks plus three players already on the roster (16 total) for 5 players. I think the jury is still out on all the offensive guys. Sanchez, Revis, and Harris currently also top the Jets salary roster. A lot of picks, players, and money for those three guys.

They "only" spent a 5th rounder on Santonio Holmes, but that fifth round pick now commands a 5yr/$50M contract a year later. Pretty expensive 5th rounder.

The second rounder they spent on Cromartie now has a 4yr/$32M deal. Pretty expensive 2nd rounder.

Pace and Scott have two of the richest deals on the team.

By not keeping his picks, and finding his own gems, he has to trade or acquire thru free agency someone else's. That's the mortgaging the future angle. Trading picks now, spending a fortune for the players acquired, and having fewer developing players in the pipeline.

I'm not saying that he hasn't had success, but let's at least look at what people are really talking about.

This doesn't include the (theoretical) roster spots that could be occupied by the picks traded for now-departed Braylon Edwards (3rd & 5th & Stuckey & Trusnik), Kris Jenkins (3rd & 5th), Lito Sheppard (4th & 5th) and probably someone else I'm forgetting. I'm not questioning the wisdom of the trades in hindsight, as that is unfair. Besides, each on individually seemed a good value (low risk / high reward) trade at the time. But that's a lot of picks & players on top of the ones you already mentioned.