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Roster Building: Jets roster 2014 vs. 2012


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Posted · Report post

Nice post and all...but it would be nearly impossible for the roster not be improved from 2012- which you could make the argument was the worst offense the NFL saw this decade.

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Posted · Report post

but idzik crippled the cap (and we have no draft picks next year) to do it

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they may be "improved" but nowhere near good enough to compete for a title.

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Nice post and all...but it would be nearly impossible for the roster not be improved from 2012- which you could make the argument was the worst offense the NFL saw this decade.

 

Yes, the offense was easy to improve, but actually DOING it and making it look respectable in a 2-year period is not easy.  Replacing Shonn Greene and Joe McKnight with Ivory and Chris Johnson is a VAST improvement.  We didn't have a true WR1 before Decker.  People have their opinions on Geno but he was the top-rated QB in the draft and Idzik had the stones to take him when everyone was clamoring for a WR at the time in round 2.

 

And if it was JUST the offense he made improvements to you'd have a point.  While the secondary is patchwork right now he clearly made improvements to the front 7. 

 

None of the moves he made were obvious choices at the time, but they've worked out better than we'd have hoped overall.  After a 6-10 campaign and getting rid of Revis, nearly everyone thought we were headed for somewhere between 2-14 and 4-12.  But that didn't happen.

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Posted · Report post

they may be "improved" but nowhere near good enough to compete for a title.

 

No one would argue otherwise.  But the minute a QB emerges this team is 100 % a contender with the roster at hand.  You couldn't say that after 2012.  We had far too many holes along with QB to make any such claim.

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Posted · Report post

Nice post and all...but it would be nearly impossible for the roster not be improved from 2012- which you could make the argument was the worst offense the NFL saw this decade.

 

You're not allowed to say that.

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Most of these say "even". Most of them should say "inconclusive". 

 

I appreciate the effort you put into this. People are going to tear it to shreds... LOL

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Interesting. I think you're giving a little too much "even" grade to the same player 2 years apart. For example, 2014 Harrison is better than 2012 Harrison, 2014 Davis is better than 2012 Davis. Likewise the opposite is true for Ferguson and Mangold. Even more so when you're discussing the roster entering the 2012 season (in mid-August) before the benefit of hindsight.

 

Also overlooks the subtleties of the positions. My favorite ex-QB wasn't merely the QB entering 2012 but he was just given a 5-year extension with the upcoming 2 seasons guaranteed (and the then-present GM was the one who gave it to him). 

 

Further, I think sooner or later (probably sooner) Allen will be back at safety. It's tough to give Pryor an edge over an established pro bowl safety (particularly one who went to the pro bowl that season) but neither he nor Bell were even near-adequate in coverage. Pryor+Allen (with lesser-Landry next in line) should be. It's probably a bit of homer optimism but I'd give the 2014 safeties the edge. If I had a choice between the 2 groups I'd choose 2014 over and over, without even addressing the fact that both of our 2012 safeties were on 1-year deals.

 

Last, it's a little tough to compare the final product of 2012 to the potential product (good and bad) of 2014. I think many of the answers would have been different if you were comparing preseason 2012.  The CB position, in particular wouldn't have been merely an "edge" to 2012 with in-primes (and then-healthy) Revis & Cromartie. It was so much of a strength that hid other deficiencies somewhat, like the pass rush (or lack thereof).

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Aaron Rodgers isn't making this roster a contender.

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Most of these say "even". Most of them should say "inconclusive". 

 

I appreciate the effort you put into this. People are going to tear it to shreds... LOL

 

I was going to write this same thing, in so many words.

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Posted (edited) · Report post

Nice post and all...but it would be nearly impossible for the roster not be improved from 2012- which you could make the argument was the worst offense the NFL saw this decade.

The 2013 Jet offense was just as bad as 2012 and I don't really think that 2014 will be all that better. There are marginal improvements from 2012 to 2014 but it's nowhere enough considering the resources that the team has had the last two offseasons so you end up comparing two bad teams which some incremental improvements in a league where teams improve drastically from year to year all the time. 4-5 year rebuilding plans in the NFL are fools gold. 

Edited by unbanmadmike1
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Most of these say "even". Most of them should say "inconclusive".

 

Good call, I was searching for the right word to use there.  I'll make that change for TE and Safety.

Edited by Jetsfan80
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The 2013 Jet offense was just as bad as 2012 and I don't really think that 2014 will be all that better. There are marginal improvements from 2012 to 2014 but it's nowhere enough considering the resources that the team has had the last two offseasons so you end up comparing two bad teams which some incremental improvements in a league where teams improve drastically from year to year all the time. 4-5 year rebuilding plans in the NFL are fools gold.

The deterioration of the oline is a huge concern.

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Posted · Report post

Aaron Rodgers isn't making this roster a contender.

 

I disagree. 

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Posted (edited) · Report post

Interesting. I think you're giving a little too much "even" grade to the same player 2 years apart.

 

I was more or less giving Tannenbaum the benefit of the doubt in those situations (perhaps undeservedly).  The GM doesn't really get credit for player development, just player acquisition.  Tannenbaum "found" Big Snacks and Antonio Allen, so credit can't really go to Idzik for those players.  Nor should Idzik get blamed if a player under contract between 2012 and now declined unless he had a clear opportunity to part ways.

Edited by Jetsfan80
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Posted · Report post

You're not allowed to say that.

 

 

That is actually an argument that you could make, pudsteak

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That is actually an argument that you could make, pudsteak

 

Odds are I'd abuse you enough for it to be fap worthy for you.

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I'd like to hear specific examples where Idzik has gone wrong given the information at hand when he made the decisions.  Should he have outbid the Raiders for Austin Howard?  Was investing a top 10 pick in Milliner the right call?  Was there not enough of an emphasis on offensive line with our Day 1/2 picks in the last 2 drafts?  Should we have gone after a G like Asamoah in free agency?

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This is like saying you have to give The Karate Kid Part II a lot of credit because at least it's not The Karate Kid Part III.

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I'd like to hear specific examples where Idzik has gone wrong given the information at hand when he made the decisions.  Should he have outbid the Raiders for Austin Howard?  Was investing a top 10 pick in Milliner the right call?  Was there not enough of an emphasis on offensive line with our Day 1/2 picks in the last 2 drafts?  Should we have gone after a G like Asamoah in free agency?

 

There was nothing he could have done to make everyone happy.

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This is like saying you have to give The Karate Kid Part II a lot of credit because at least it's not The Karate Kid Part III.

 

No, this is like saying it takes a really good GM to make something out of nothing.

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Posted · Report post

Really good job on this article.

 

Its obvious that Idzik has got this team better with more depth in just two off seasons. I may not agree with all draft picks he has made but there is a definitive plan to keep making this team better and provide more depth without landing into salary cap issues.

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Posted · Report post

There was nothing he could have done to make everyone happy.

Get out of here with this stupidity. He could've built a good, competitive team. A good team would make everyone happy. This isn't a good team. 

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Posted (edited) · Report post

Really good job on this article.

 

Its obvious that Idzik has got this team better with more depth in just two off seasons. I may not agree with all draft picks he has made but there is a definitive plan to keep making this team better and provide more depth without landing into salary cap issues.

 

Yeah that's the thing I like about Idzik.  With Tannenbaum so many of his failures had to do with moves he should NOT have made but did anyways.  With Idzik the criticism seems to be that he's not taking ENOUGH risks.  I think he's taking calculated risks in the draft, which has historically been the best way to build a roster.  Taking Geno in the 2nd round and rolling with him in Year 2 was risky.  Burning a top 10 pick on Milliner and the 13th pick on Richardson despite, at the time, being in good shape at CB and DE were risky choices a lot of people here didn't like. 

 

He's not trading up like a madman, trading tons of picks for veterans, or signing other teams' UFA's.  This is all a major departure from Tannenbaum, who left our roster in such bad shape following 2012 primarily because he did all of those things.

 

And, of course, he's not signing players to cap-crippling deals. 

Edited by Jetsfan80
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