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The minutiae of the silly QB situation is distracting us from the longterm outlook of the Jets

Matt39

By Matt39
in NY Jets Forum

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PepPep

PepPep

Posted
Posted
13 hours ago, Matt39 said:

You can't get on Maccagnan for giving Revis a terrible contract? Why not?

Ok. Enough about Revis' contract being 'terrible'. If Macc wants to cut him to free up cap, he can do so in the offseason but take on some dead money. If not, he can do so the following offseason and take on no dead money. That's not THAT terrible. Revis can still play. People are WAY over-reacting as to his getting burned ONCE in the Buffalo game and giving up a huge day to AJ Green, one of the best WRs in the game. Revis is not Revis of old but he is still a very good CB and someone who the Jets have no replacement for right now.

May I add that Macc INTENTIONALLY structured the deal this way, in part, b/c that happens to be when Richardson's contract is up. If Hack turns out to be a starting QB, the Jets will be able to cut Revis and still afford to keep that defensive line intact through 2017 and beyond. 

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Charlie Brown

Charlie Brown

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, PepPep said:

Ok. Enough about Revis' contract being 'terrible'. If Macc wants to cut him to free up cap, he can do so in the offseason but take on some dead money. If not, he can do so the following offseason and take on no dead money. That's not THAT terrible. Revis can still play. People are WAY over-reacting as to his getting burned ONCE in the Buffalo game and giving up a huge day to AJ Green, one of the best WRs in the game. Revis is not Revis of old but he is still a very good CB and someone who the Jets have no replacement for right now.

May I add that Macc INTENTIONALLY structured the deal this way, in part, b/c that happens to be when Richardson's contract is up. If Hack turns out to be a starting QB, the Jets will be able to cut Revis and still afford to keep that defensive line intact through 2017 and beyond. 

Thank you folks out here are acting like Revis had somehow turned into Kyle Wilson and he hasn't. 

Also the talent level on the Jets when Idzik left was some of the worst I've ever seen on an NFL team and certainly one of the bottom fifth of the NFL.

Those who think Idzik was correct when he said the Jets as he had constructed them had enough talent to win an NFL championship are not playing with a full deck just as Idzik wasn't when he said insanity during his state of the team press conference.  

Idzik left the Jets with talent.......

Come on now!!!

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Charlie Brown

Charlie Brown

Posted
Posted
Just now, dbatesman said:

Can't speak to Idzik, but I certainly can't see any difference between Maccagnan and Tannenbaum.

I can't think of a quip worthy of you :) 

But you can't see the difference between Idzik and Mac all I can say is.... that proves you are a long suffering Jet fan in my book my brother.  

I am just talking obviously. I am hoping against hope that Mac is the real deal. In truth the jury is still out. 

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ASH1962

ASH1962

Posted
Posted
14 hours ago, KRL said:

I know it will never happen but it would be so nice if after a loss people could
actually analyze the game without resorting to the tired nonsense of:

- Fire the HC
- Fire the OC
- Fire the DC
- Fire the GM
- Cut every player
- Post the billboard

It's boring, the Jets should be 3-0 if the QB (who many wanted back no matter what
the price) played "below average" against CIN & KC.  With all the other issues that
have cropped up in the first three games (Revis, secondary play, TE coverage) that's
the simple truth.  All the other crying & moaning is people just trying to push their
agenda

Oh KRL, you had me until "They should be 3-0". They were never interested in winning last weeks game at KC and were never in it despite the close'ish score. We all knew it was a loss from the get go as they could not get anything done at all on either side of the ball, looked disinterested, slow, and old. Agree they most definitely should have won against Cin, but with the upcoming schedule and a chicken $hit, conservative, play scared and not to lose CS, we will be lucky to be 2-6 at the half way point. You cannot beat the NFL's elite by kicking FG's, which is all this team seems to be able to do. What does it matter anyway, we will always go/be nowhere as long as the dynasty stays intact in our division which quite honestly, is making me rethink whether or not I want to be bothered following the NFL anymore. I mean what is the point? This crap with NE is like the movie Groundhog Day, every single season it's the same, 12-4, 13-3, 14-2 year in and year out we have zero chance at winning the division.

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Beerfish

Beerfish

Posted
Posted

Last week was a pure disaster for sure, before that the Jets had scored at least 17 points in every single game under this regime, the cincy game?  We lost by 1 and our ace fg kicker missed a convert and a short Fg.  Where is the all world defense winning us games and making key stops at key times?  Boat loads of 1st rounders, tons of cap space, lots of big names, some nice stats at times.  And a whole lot of underachievement.  Even our big 1st round pick this year who has made some plays was brought in to 'cover tes and rbs and we still get shredded on these plays.

 

Whether it is overrated players or a lousy scheme the defense has won us few games the last year and a bit, elite D?  Not even close.

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Sperm Edwards

Sperm Edwards

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, dbatesman said:

No argument on the QBs. His conduct there alone is deserving of being fired. But acting like Maccagnan walked into a barren wasteland of a roster is revisionist history.

In 2015:

  • He added 3 expensive CBs and a higher-priced safety, one of which (Cromartie, at $7M) is gone already. Another acquisition, Skrine, is a NB getting paid like a good starter and is pretty unpopular with fans already, as is the crown jewel pickup of Revis at starting QB money. The only one that seems close to good value - who no one is talking of potentially cutting ties with after this season - was Gilchrist, and we'll see how much longer he sticks around in the last 2 years of his deal when his $ goes up into the $6M range after we pocketed the 2 cheap years.
  • He re-signed Harris, who was already on the team (and paid $15M guaranteed for a player who is a clear ill-fit for a HC who wants speedy LBers).
  • He signed Carpenter.
  • He re-signed Calvin Pace.
  • He traded for Fitzpatrick, then re-signed him at $12M.
  • He accepted the sweetheart offer for Marshall: a no-brainer for a WR-depleted team with tons of cap room. 

Considering the massive amounts spent so far, this isn't a lot to show for it.

Most of the starting lineup was inherited from 2014 or were the Jets' own FAs: 4/5 of the OL, the RBs, the TEs, Decker, Mo/Sheldon/Snacks, 2/3 of the LBers, one CB in Marcus (hardly great, but was no worse than new pickup Cromartie), and a safety. Add in a gift of a schedule to make everyone (new & returning players alike) look better than they were.

The 2014 team sucked, but to hear it retold you'd think we had 20 new starters from 2014 to 2015. 

For all the criticism, we're not doomed for the future. We just need Bryce Petty to turn into a top 10 QB.

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UnitedWhofans

UnitedWhofans

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Sperm Edwards said:

In 2015:

  • He added 3 expensive CBs and a higher-priced safety, one of which (Cromartie, at $7M) is gone already. Another acquisition, Skrine, is a NB getting paid like a good starter and is pretty unpopular with fans already, as is the crown jewel pickup of Revis at starting QB money. The only one that seems close to good value - who no one is talking of potentially cutting ties with after this season - was Gilchrist, and we'll see how much longer he sticks around in the last 2 years of his deal when his $ goes up into the $6M range after we pocketed the 2 cheap years.
  • He re-signed Harris, who was already on the team (and paid $15M guaranteed for a player who is a clear ill-fit for a HC who wants speedy LBers).
  • He signed Carpenter.
  • He re-signed Calvin Pace.
  • He traded for Fitzpatrick, then re-signed him at $12M.
  • He accepted the sweetheart offer for Marshall: a no-brainer for a WR-depleted team with tons of cap room. 

Considering the massive amounts spent so far, this isn't a lot to show for it.

Most of the starting lineup was inherited from 2014 or were the Jets' own FAs: 4/5 of the OL, the RBs, the TEs, Decker, Mo/Sheldon/Snacks, 2/3 of the LBers, one CB in Marcus (hardly great, but was no worse than new pickup Cromartie), and a safety. Add in a gift of a schedule to make everyone (new & returning players alike) look better than they were.

The 2014 team sucked, but to hear it retold you'd think we had 20 new starters from 2014 to 2015. 

For all the criticism, we're not doomed for the future. We just need Bryce Petty to turn into a top 10 QB.

So I guess the NFL executive of the year award is earned by simply spending money

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Joe Jets fan

Joe Jets fan

Posted
Posted
45 minutes ago, Jetdawgg said:

My agenda is to have the Jets win. Win and compete for a SB. No way is this happening now with this guy at QB. I could care less who is QB the Jets. I root for the team. 

I don't disagree with this but you don't have to make stuff up to get your agenda out there.

I so wish people would stick to facts or state when something is there opinion. 

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Sperm Edwards

Sperm Edwards

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

I would rather have that than Idzik or Tanny, who traded away draft picks like water

Idzik traded away draft picks like water and Maccagnan doesn't? I'll give you Maccagnan is 10x the scout Idzik is, but how many draft picks has Maccagnan surrendered on non-draftees? 

Of all the things Idzik did poorly, and there were plenty, the one thing he did not do was trade away draft picks while trying a full gutted rebuild. I think he traded away one 4th round pick for Ivory, but got back a 1st and a 4th for a still-injured Revis who was in pretty low demand at the time.

In 2 seasons, Maccagnan - whose main incoming attribute is experience in identifying college talent, hopefully in those later rounds where you really need to know your stuff to find them - has traded away or foregone some 10 draft picks and (unsuccessfully) tried to trade away even more. So what the hell are you talking? 

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Beerfish

Beerfish

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Idzik traded away draft picks like water and Maccagnan doesn't? I'll give you Maccagnan is 10x the scout Idzik is, but how many draft picks has Maccagnan surrendered on non-draftees? 

Of all the things Idzik did poorly, and there were plenty, the one thing he did not do was trade away draft picks while trying a full gutted rebuild. I think he traded away one 4th round pick for Ivory, but got back a 1st and a 4th for a still-injured Revis who was in pretty low demand at the time.

In 2 seasons, Maccagnan - whose main incoming attribute is experience in identifying college talent, hopefully in those later rounds where you really need to know your stuff to find them - has traded away or foregone some 10 draft picks and (unsuccessfully) tried to trade away even more. So what the hell are you talking? 

I believe his post was saying that Tanny traded away picks like candy if you see how it was worded.  Idzik hoarded them just drafted poorly.  Mac is somewhere in the middle.

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Hael

Hael

Posted
Posted

Idzik had the right idea to do a full team rebuild.  Where it was clear we were allowed to suck for a few years.  Of course his talent evaluation was awful, but the idea was correct.  Mcc is more in the reset roster every year to try to be competitive but nonetheless keep some fiscal sanity.

We've seen examples in the NFL where both approaches have worked.  Seattle and SF were examples of the former (where they built incredible cap friendly ridiculous allstar rosters that had 2-3 year superbowl windows after painful multiyear rebuilds) 

NE and say Pittsburgh are examples of the latter.

We've also seen epic failures of these strategies before.  The Browns are in permanent rebuild mode, and we see teams like Philly splurge on FA almost every year and never quite make it.

 

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Sperm Edwards

Sperm Edwards

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

I believe his post was saying that Tanny traded away picks like candy if you see how it was worded.  Idzik hoarded them just drafted poorly.  Mac is somewhere in the middle.

That's a reach. I know you know better. 

No argument on the success of Idzik's draft picks on a percentage basis. But the idea in drafting 3 guards with mid-late picks was to land one, and Winters - though unspectacular, and awful to start - isn't a trainwreck. Same strategy with WR, and the high-talent project of the 3 (Enunwa) I've got not complaints about. Where he loses that benefit of the doubt is in the lack of success with a top 10 pick (Milliner, though the top of that draft was a trainwreck in itself), and a pair of 2nd rounders (Geno + Amaro), and the questionable value of Pryor at #18 in the country. All valid criticisms. But the percentage basis for those 2 positions (OG, WR) I could have otherwise lived with if he was better in other departments. 

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dbatesman

dbatesman

Posted
Posted
48 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

So I guess the NFL executive of the year award is earned by simply spending money

Executive of the Year is awarded by an organization that counts Manish Mehta as a member in good standing. Winning it entails placating the dumbest group of people in existence. So to answer your question: yes, it's earned by simply spending money. 

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Joe Jets fan

Joe Jets fan

Posted
Posted
35 minutes ago, Jetdawgg said:

Just what did I make up?

"The Jets just don't have bad QB play. The past 4 games QB play has been horrible. This season, there has been no real rushing game as we feature no TE and now no FB. To go along with a 30 year old RB who has been very effective. A running game can usually bail out a bad QB. Fitz though has been terrible."

This is what you made up, its just not true.

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RutgersJetFan

RutgersJetFan

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

Executive of the Year is awarded by an organization that counts Manish Mehta as a member in good standing. Winning it entails placating the dumbest group of people in existence. So to answer your question: yes, it's earned by simply spending money. 

2008 — Bill Parcells, Miami Dolphins
2009 — Bill Polian, Indianapolis Colts
2010 — Scott Pioli, Kansas City Chiefs
2011 — Trent Baalke, San Francisco 49ers
2012 — Ryan Grigson, Indianapolis Colts
2013 — John Dorsey, Kansas City Chiefs
2014 — Jerry Jones, Dallas Cowboys
2015 — Mike Maccagnan, New York Jets

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dbatesman

dbatesman

Posted
Posted
16 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

2008 — Bill Parcells, Miami Dolphins
2009 — Bill Polian, Indianapolis Colts
2010 — Scott Pioli, Kansas City Chiefs
2011 — Trent Baalke, San Francisco 49ers
2012 — Ryan Grigson, Indianapolis Colts
2013 — John Dorsey, Kansas City Chiefs
2014 — Jerry Jones, Dallas Cowboys
2015 — Mike Maccagnan, New York Jets

Yikes. That's even worse than I thought.

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Jetdawgg

Jetdawgg

Posted
Posted
13 minutes ago, Joe Jets fan said:

"The Jets just don't have bad QB play. The past 4 games QB play has been horrible. This season, there has been no real rushing game as we feature no TE and now no FB. To go along with a 30 year old RB who has been very effective. A running game can usually bail out a bad QB. Fitz though has been terrible."

This is what you made up, its just not true.

What do you mean? In those 3 losses the QB play has been piss poor or worse. Just look at the QB stats. I am not lacking things up. You are in denial. 

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UnitedWhofans

UnitedWhofans

Posted
Posted
59 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Idzik traded away draft picks like water and Maccagnan doesn't? I'll give you Maccagnan is 10x the scout Idzik is, but how many draft picks has Maccagnan surrendered on non-draftees? 

Of all the things Idzik did poorly, and there were plenty, the one thing he did not do was trade away draft picks while trying a full gutted rebuild. I think he traded away one 4th round pick for Ivory, but got back a 1st and a 4th for a still-injured Revis who was in pretty low demand at the time.

In 2 seasons, Maccagnan - whose main incoming attribute is experience in identifying college talent, hopefully in those later rounds where you really need to know your stuff to find them - has traded away or foregone some 10 draft picks and (unsuccessfully) tried to trade away even more. So what the hell are you talking? 

Tanny traded away draft picks like water.

Idzik had the right idea but fans were impatient and he looked like a fool at a presser.

What Mac dos was get draft picks back in trades in addition to the player

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Beerfish

Beerfish

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, Jetdawgg said:

What do you mean? In those 3 losses the QB play has been piss poor or worse. Just look at the QB stats. I am not lacking things up. You are in denial. 

last 4 games became 3 loses in one hell of a hurry i see.  As for the 1st game this year, fg kicker misses a covnert and short FG and our D allows AJ green to destroy us.  Qb play was good enough to win that game.

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Jetdawgg

Jetdawgg

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

last 4 games became 3 loses in one hell of a hurry i see.  As for the 1st game this year, fg kicker misses a covnert and short FG and our D allows AJ green to destroy us.  Qb play was good enough to win that game.

Another Jets fan who accepts pedestrian play at QB and thinks it is good enough. 54% is not good enough. 2/7 in the red zone is not good enough. This guy is not good enough and he is paid $12MM USD this season. The facts speak for themselves. 

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funaz

funaz

Posted
Posted
Roll it back and apply that sentence to his predecessor.  Idzik was the numbers/fall guy brought in to clean up a horrible cap mess.that Tanny/Rex left us in.

Macc has been solid to date no need to include him in any bashing. Hell if he was able to land the franchise QB everyone is looking for we'd be throwing him parades. 

Wrong. Tanny had managed the cap well all idzick had to do was execute the plan tanny laid out.

Idzick was just awful once he got off script that tanny left. Mckaggs now has to recover from idzicks mess. The jets problem is they need a long term qb

Sent from mTalk

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